Another debate about free-buzzing
HiC
> On Feb 1, 8:56 pm, "HiC" <brasspl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > One clue - if a teacher believes in "free-buzzing" as a valid
> > embouchure development exercise.
>
> Only if you don't consider exercising the orbiculus oris muscle group
> to have a positive impact on embouchure development. I can't speak to
> other applications, but as far as gross muscle building, it works just
> fine.
I applaud that you've looked at an anatomy chart, but the problem is
that the action of free buzzing is utterly unlike how one's anatomy is
utilized for actually playing the instrument because too many other
elements are missing. I'm not at all pursuaded by the assertion of
alleged benefits of the vague term "gross muscle building".
> It was only by free buzzing and moving the mouthpiece into place
> without resetting that I was able to get over problems with playing
> with a spread embouchure.
I'm sure it was coincidence, not a direct correlation. At best,
perhaps the effort got you to think about utilizing your chops in a
different way, but the way you ended up doing it had no relation to
the free-buzz configuration. You'll probably get pissed and say "how
the hell do you know how it helped me? It's my chops, I should know"
To which I'd respond, you were making adjustments unconsciously that
you weren't focused on.
You say you "moved the mp in place without resetting." There's no way
you were actually playing on the same setup you were free-buzzing
with. You may be convinced you were - no you weren't.
But since you were doing free-buzzing, it seemed logical to conclude
that "free buzzing helped". Kind of like a patient who middle ages
doctors bled who managed not to die and got better, so once again
another triumph is declared for the practice of bleeding, which I
regard as on-par with free-buzzing as far as how beneficial it is,
except you aren't likely to die from free-buzzing.
> That was after many years with some fine
> teachers at the college level.
Allegedly "fine" teachers who were unable to help you. Sounds like
you're supporting my previous rant. If they'd truly understood your
problem, they'd have been able to fix it, and they wouldn't have had
to lead you through pointless exercises to do it.
> I don't prescribe it myself in most cases, but there are valid reasons
> for doing so.
If you believe this, you should be able to describe *exactly" how free-
buzzing is ever of demonstrable benefit, in detailed, physiological
terms.
Jeff
I'm hoping the discussion can center around whether or not there are
benefits to free-buzzing rather than a rant on people who advocate it.
On Feb 2, 12:53 am, "HiC" <brasspl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I applaud that you've looked at an anatomy chart, but the problem is
> that the action of free buzzing is utterly unlike how one's anatomy is
> utilized for actually playing the instrument because too many other
> elements are missing.
By that assertion, lifting free weights wouldn't help a defensive
lineman because they're not applying leverage and not in motion. Or
running has no benefit because the exercise you're giving to your abs
when you're exchanging air doesn't mimic the playing process at all.
The muscle groups in question are absolutely applied in both free
buzzing and in on-horn buzzing. I think we can agree there, yes?
> I'm not at all pursuaded by the assertion of
> alleged benefits of the vague term "gross muscle building".
Let me ask you this another way, then. Do you feel, first, that the
muscles used (orbiculus oris, buccinators, and [I am blocking the name
of the triangular muscle at the base of the mouth...need coffee]) can
be exercised in a way that will strengthen them?
And can this be done by anything other than playing trumpet?
(Here are some other examples that don't involve free buzzing:
)
> I'm sure it was coincidence, not a direct correlation. At best,
> perhaps the effort got you to think about utilizing your chops in a
> different way, but the way you ended up doing it had no relation to
> the free-buzz configuration.
That may be, but the fact remains, it was the one way (the only way
I've seen so far) that ensures that the chops aren't in a spread
position when you begin tone production with the mouthpiece in place.
In this particular application, the benefit and purpose are perfectly
logical and sensible. (Perhaps there are better ways to do this, and
if there are, you'll share them.)
> You'll probably get pissed and say "how
> the hell do you know how it helped me? It's my chops, I should know"
Thanks, but that's not correct. I was actually hoping to have a
constructive, non-combative discussion on this topic. It is true that
you lack observational experience when it comes to discussing what my
chops are doing.
> You say you "moved the mp in place without resetting." There's no way
> you were actually playing on the same setup you were free-buzzing
> with. You may be convinced you were - no you weren't.
You're misunderstanding. I'm saying that you move the mouthpiece in
without displacing the chops by breathing through the mouth. Yes, I'm
quite certain that the actual buzzing surface, lip protrusion,
aperture, etc. are certain to have changed once the mouthpiece is
introduced. That doesn't mean that the goal -- to ensure that the
chops can't be in a spread setting -- isn't achieved.
> Kind of like a patient who middle ages
> doctors bled
Ad hominem...
> Allegedly "fine" teachers who were unable to help you.
Ad hominem...
Unable to help me with one aspect of my playing. You assume much. I
will point out that there are alot of things that were shown to me 20
years ago that I didn't apply with diligence. I needed some things
explained to me in a different manner before the ideas took. Frankly,
I had alot of things that needed work when I was in college. :-)
> If you believe this, you should be able to describe *exactly" how free-
> buzzing is ever of demonstrable benefit, in detailed, physiological
> terms.
I believe I've done so above in the level of detail necessary to
convince folks who are open-minded about the subject, at least in how
it applies to helping players who play with a spread setup ensure that
they're not and enabling them to get used to playing on a closed
setup. (If you contest this, I would suggest that the onus is on you
to demonstrate how the exercise as described can be performed and you
can produce a spread chop setting.)
That's not to say that this addresses whether it's a good exercise for
other applications. [Frankly, I don't think it's much use except for
getting beginners to exercise muscle groups without beating on the
chops, and there are other ways to do that, in my opinion (e.g., the
link above).]
Interesting discussion, when limited to the physical conditions to
which the topic supposedly applies.
edi...@rcn.com
There are a few subjects that are guaranteed to start a flame war on
any of the trumpet groups ( TH, TPIN, TrumpetMasters, here). Those
subjects are free buzzing, pedals, and the pencil exercise.The bottom
line is pure pragmatism. If something works for you, do it. If it
doesn't work stop. Just because one person has had good luck with one
teacher/system and said system advocates/rejects pedals/free buzzing/
pencil exercise there is no justification to dosmatically generalize
to all trumpet players. We are all different. That's why there are
soooo many mouthpieces available, so many trumpets available.
Jeff
>
> There are a few subjects that are guaranteed to start a flame war on
> any of the trumpet groups ( TH, TPIN, TrumpetMasters, here).
That's unfortunate, one would think you could either convince folks in
opposing camps or simply agree to disagree...if it turns into a flame
war or ad hominem attacks, I'll just unplug...
kitekrazy
news:1170450770.4...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
>
> There are a few subjects that are guaranteed to start a flame war on
> any of the trumpet groups ( TH, TPIN, TrumpetMasters, here). Those
> subjects are free buzzing, pedals, and the pencil exercise.The bottom
> line is pure pragmatism. If something works for you, do it. If it
> doesn't work stop. Just because one person has had good luck with one
> teacher/system and said system advocates/rejects pedals/free buzzing/
> pencil exercise there is no justification to dosmatically generalize
> to all trumpet players. We are all different. That's why there are
> soooo many mouthpieces available, so many trumpets available.
>
I wonder how much of it is really psychological. If you believe something
will work, are the chances high it wont?
kitekrazy
@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
Maybe they think it is a big waste of time. Sometimes when playing a brass
instrument is analyized to death you regress instead of progress.
I had one parent tell me he bought his kid (a beginner) a megatone
mouthpeice. I said, "Congradulations you are now playing the equipment
game."
edi...@rcn.com
We can argue the psychology of lip buzzing if you would like. I have
seen dozens of these arguments but not from that point of view.
If you want to see some good dustups look over at Trumpet Herald.
There were just two separate go rounds there. One was about useful/
useless/harmfulness of pedals and another was about the useful/useless/
harmfulness of lip buzzing.
As far as lipbuzzing, I do it and it helps. Carmine Caruso taught it.
Reinhardt taught it and Pops McLaughlin ( http://www.BbTrumpet.com
http://www.TrumpetCollege.com ) teaches it. I believe Mendez
recommended it. There is a video somewhere on the net of Marsalis
buzzing. Maybe they are just good psychologists?
Jeff
I'd rather not. :-)
Frankly, pedagogy isn't my thing. But if those of you who have
students want to have a go-'round, that's what Usenet is for.
I don't adopt a technique because someone else does it. Okay, maybe I
do. But I don't coronate it as a good idea simply because someone
endorses it.
In my case, there was a specific use for free-buzzing (not the muscle-
building aspect, rather the reinforcing-closed-embouchure aspect) that
worked for me. I have recommended it to others because it makes sense
to me. Frankly, I'm also susceptible to the notion that there are
"free weight" exercises that can be done without a horn or mouthpiece
that can make things easier for people (when they don't have other
issues with their chops), but I generally don't force those on people,
as I suspect alot of folks have more fundamental issues with their
chops to deal with.
As I type this, I'm just getting off a little commercial gig where I
overshot a G (or attempt thereof) for a double C (nobody will mistake
me for Lin Biviano, but it slotted). When I consulted Clint
McLaughlin (Pops) about embouchure issues, I was having trouble
getting a full sound at an Eb over high C. There is one AHA moment
that I got that cleaned up alot of my upper register, and it was
Clint's free-buzz / drop the horn into place and don't reset thing.
I'm not too concerned about whether the proposition of WHY it did what
it did was correct, or what the "psychology" (or, perhaps more
accurately, the pedagogy) was, but the teaching technique had a
profound impact on my playing.
So, in short, I think there are perfectly acceptable techniques for
teaching that CAN have concrete, positive results under certain
conditions. Do I think that free buzzing is a panacea for every
player's endurance issues, pressure, muscle weakness, etc....?
Probably not. BUT. I am willing to employ it under certain
conditions if I think it will help certain players in the short term
(and, I will say, I think there are alot of those players out there).
Again (and I'm not trying to rush things), I'm interested to hear if
there's a more efficient technique for demonstrating the difference
between a closed embouchure set and an open one, and for acclimating a
student to the new setup. I'm not suggesting this is THE best way to
do it, simply that it's ONE way to do it that I can attest worked very
well for me.
Incidentally, Clint's work is at
I recommend it for folks who are analytical in their approach to their
chops. All I can say is that he helped me get over some humps that I
was having some real issues with.
-- jeff
(waiting for a flame war to develop)
popstrump...@yahoo.com
There are REAL reasons why open players can NOT buzz and when they try
it is pinched and UNLIKE their playing. IF you read this entire post
you will learn why.
Just for the record a closed set is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT always more
correct.
It is more correct for some players namely those that fail the other
way.
I have successful players that play open and some that play closed. I
NEVER change an embouchure because of how it looks. You change when it
doesn't play well.
I realize that I sometimes look like I am pushing closed embouchures
but I am only answering the question that is asked. <<<I can't play
soft and I have poor range and no endurance>>> The reason is spread
lips.
Yes this problem gets asked a lot.
IF they ask about open chop problems telling them how to wax a car is
not the best approach to help them.
There are as many closed embouchure problems but they are NOT as
apparent to the player. (Poor projection, pinched sound, poor low
register....) Those don't get asked as much so it looks unbalanced. It
is a pity too because some of them sound horrible but they don't think
it is caused by the embouchure (and it is).
When you are making sound on the trumpet the lips are vibrating
against each other at some point. The CAUSE of this vibration is the
POINT being discussed NOT if they vibrate.
I (for myself) like to be more active in causing the vibrations. Some
players like it the other way but we all have a vibration going.
How we use tension and compression tends to make this choice for us.
Each physical action leads to a specific sound and the need for a
DIFFERENT physical action to compliment the sound and round it out.
If we use more tension (corners) than compression then active buzzing
creates a bad sound. (It is too restricted and remains thin.) The open
feel players use way more corner tension than the close players do or
can. The vibrations are driven by making the lips stiffer (using
tension). Stiff lips don't handle curl or compression well so they
need to use some space.
Those of us that use little tension need to close up and be active in
vibrating the lips or the sound is tubby. Those that use little corner
tension substitute compression or curl for it and drive the vibrations
via a different means. We close the space instead of making the lips
stiff.
I can tune the thick E string on a guitar and the thin E string on the
guitar to the same note. But the TENSION has to be different.
The vibrating point is NOT always on the outside of the lips. As the
lips spread further apart or uncurl the vibrating point moves inside
the mouth slightly. The part of the lip that touches the mouthpiece
may well NOT touch but inside the aperture tunnel 1/8 to ¼ of an inch
the lips are touching.
A VIBRANT lip buzz that is able to produce a full rich sound does NOT
sound like a mosquito.
The mosquito buzz is WAY WAY TOO TENSE and is NOT what you are looking
for.
The buzz should sound more like a motor boat BIG and STRONG and the
face should be LOOSE.
The EXCESS tension in the corners is what holds the sound back.
That tension is needed when you play with the lips slightly open but
you must RELAX and stop using it when you go to a closed embouchure.
Think of throwing a ball.
If you squeeze the ball with all of your might then you can't throw it
very far because your muscles are already contracted.
If you hold the ball loosely and stay relaxed than you are able to
throw it.
This is why open aperture players can NOT buzz correctly. They forget
to relax and stop using the muscles that closed players don't use.
Remember when you played withOUT letting the lips touch TENSION alone
was able to produce a sound.
So when you keep the TENSION and make the lips touch and add
COMPRESSION........ Just HOW is the air supposed to get out and ever
make a sound???????
You do NOT use TENSION and COMPRESSION and CURL.
You use ONE of them but NEVER all 3.
Does buzzing ever have a place?
Sure.
There are many players who for one reason or another can't make things
work well until they close up some.
Buzzing CAN help them to LEARN to do this.
I actually PLAY a buzzing embouchure and quite a few players do and
always have.
The teaching video that Wynton did for young players teaches them to
learn by buzzing. This is also how Mendez played and taught. Reinhardt
taught it too.
Many players do not.
It is a personal thing. Some people write left handed. Should right
handed people try to make them change? NO
People do physical actions in different ways because those different
ways fit them better.
People OVERdo things. Tell them to relax and they open the lips big
enough for a small bus to drive through them and then wonder what
happened to their range. Tell them to let the lips touch and they
squeeze them so tight that they make noises and NOT music.
BOTH open FEELS and closed FEELS CAN produce great results if done
well and both CAN produce horrible results if done improperly.
FEELS is different from huge hole between the lips when the mpc is
applied.
I am a closed player but I use NO lip curl. I simply hate the sound it
gets for me and many players. It is not a bad sound but just one I
don't like for myself. But I am still a closed player because my lips
gently touch BEFORE the mouthpiece makes contact.
This is to help people know if they went too far either open or
closed.
The difference is in a couple of things:
How we are built,
How much time we practice EVERY day (open players NEED more practice),
How we use or don't use facial tension (Closed sets do NOT use tension
generally),
How we use compression,
If we mess the embouchure up by parting the lips when we breathe and
trapping them with the mpc,
If we FORGET to FORM and FIRM the embouchure BEFORE mpc contact,
If we use a mpc that FITS our lips and our embouchure usage,
If we use good support ALWAYS,
If we don't use TOO much curl, pucker, pressure, tension, pivot......
When done well there is nothing wrong with open but there are some
warning signs that you are TOO open.
A common problem that goes with the OPEN set is that many who try this
forget to form an embouchure.
When we play 1 of 2 things happens.
1. We form an embouchure and then place the mouthpiece on it.
2. We use the mouthpiece and some pressure to create an embouchure for
us.
The second group can experience zero problems or LOTS of problems.
This is different person to person.
Sound IS vibrations.
The sound from the trumpet IS caused by the vibrating of our lips.
Air in the sound IS caused from too big an aperture for the note/
volume we are playing.
What happens is that some of the air gets through the hole without
touching any lip tissue and doesn't get put into vibration. So it
sizzles right through the sound.
http://www.bbtrumpet.com/pix/airy.JPG
Air in the tone goes hand in hand with every bad thing that can
happen. Not being able to play soft cleanly or at all, poor range,
poor endurance, excessive mouthpiece pressure.......
Even those who are proponents of the standing wave controls the
embouchure theory NEVER say don't form an embouchure. This is NOT by
accident.
"The term lip aperture refers to the space blown open for the
necessary production of lip vibrations to create the sound. Permitting
the lips to open at the vibrating points during the embouchure
preparation, during the mouthpiece placement, during the inhalation
and at the completion of the blowing is one of the principal
contributing factors for lack of range, power, flexibility, endurance,
etc. In the Pivot System the lip aperture must exist only during the
actual blowing."
>From "The Encyclopedia of the Pivot System" by Doctor Donald
Reinhardt.
In a nutshell form the embouchure and then place the mouthpiece.
This same thing is expressed in these books.
"The Art of Brass Playing" by Phillip Farkas, "Trumpet Isometrics" by
Leon Merian, "Super Chops" by Jerry Callet, "The Trumpeter's Handbook"
by Roger Sherman, Malek's brass players survey 1954, A Survey of
Modern Brass Teaching Philosophies by Bellamah, Artistic Trumpet
Technique & Study by Bush, Brass Playing Mechanism & Technic by
Hanson, Jakes Method by Don Jacoby, Prelude to Brass Playing by
Mendez, The Psychology of Cornet & Trumpet Playing by Dr. Noble, The
Embouchure by Porter, and The Pros Talk Embouchure written by others
and edited by Me.
You may notice that NO book ever recommends doing the second. They
ALWAYS say to place the mouthpiece on an already formed and firmed up
embouchure that is READY to play.
Why do some people buzz?
When we play there is a vibration setup in the air in the tubing of
the trumpet. And that vibration is responsible for the sound that we
hear.
How does that vibration start?
If we wrap our lips around the leadpipe and blow all we get is a hiss.
We can hear the air move but there is no vibration or tone. So then
the lips have a part to play in this.
Players who do NOT free buzz NEED to get feedback in order to produce
a trumpet sound. This feedback is from the return of the wave form
that they blew into the mouthpiece. They blew air through the lips it
met some resistance and some of it returned to the lips adding a
slight amount of back pressure to the lip surface. This helped them to
complete their buzz and a note was produced.
The resistance that sent the wave form back is actually from multiple
sources:
1. The bottom of the mouthpiece cup
2. The mouthpiece throat
3. The mouthpiece backbore
4. The ambient air pressure in the horn
5. The taper in the leadpipe
6. The soft boundary at the end of the bell
What does the feedback actually do?
Well it closes the lip aperture enough to force a buzz to happen.
How does that affect trumpet playing?
>From low g to g on top of the staff it has little affect. As you
ascend from g on the staff up it requires more and more feedback to
make the buzz. There is a point where the mouthpiece and the horn can
NOT add enough feedback for the range to go up any more. The player
USUALLY resorts to feedback in the form of arm strength and mouthpiece
to lip pressure to close the aperture. Now the problem begins.
Endurance, tone, range and everything else is hampered. Depending on
your setup and playing requirements this problem can range from minor
to very serious.
Why free buzz the lips?
If the lips already have a small enough aperture that you can buzz
then NO feedback is needed. That includes arm strength and mouthpiece
to lip pressure. There are people who can free buzz a high c and many
can even free buzz a double high c. However the ability to free buzz a
middle c is ALL that one ever needs because it means that there is
less need for pressure. There is always a point where the lips need
some feedback. But if that happens over high c then that player has a
lot of endurance.
Is it for everybody?
Well if you are happy with your endurance then it may not be worth the
effort to you to learn this. If you have playing concerns then it is
worth the effort.
Some people will buzz easier in a smile embouchure and some in a lip
overlapping embouchure so they try to adopt it. This false buzzing
does not help. It really needs to be the same embouchure that you
actually play.
Many players who have limited themselves this way (too open) end up
with 4 and sometimes 5 different types of embouchures that they use.
They have a:
1) Lip buzzing embouchure,
2) A pedal tone embouchure (meaning they can NOT play pedals with the
normal setting),
3) The real embouchure (low c - g on top of the staff).
4) A shifted setting when several high notes are played in a row (they
will take a breath here and reset the chops) and finally some even
have an
5) I'm tired setting that they play.
It is easy to start this type of thing and is also very deceiving as
these changes are used to help in times of stress. You are not
watching yourself and you are working your rump off to play. NOT
constantly checking to see if you are playing only one setting.
There are several scenarios that can be seen here.
1) For some they remember the need to take a breath to accomplish a
register change. It is a chance to complete the embouchure shift.
Thousands of people do this without knowing that it is a shift. This
limits your overall playing.
Why can they play some lead charts well and others don't come out
right? Some songs don't have breaks in the places needed for the
embouchure shift to take place. They change registers too often or too
fast. This works both ways a low setting not hitting the top notes and
a high setting not allowing the lower notes to sound.
2) For some there is a consistent but limited range. They play great
from low g to around high c or d. (I've seen some stall out at g on
top of the staff). For some reason no matter who they take lessons
from or how much they practice the range never really changes. This is
really the same as player 1 only he has not picked up the squeal
setting yet.
3) This player is fine except the playing time is always limited.
However if high playing is involved then the time is shorter.
4) This player has a real problem with endurance. Some days with the
right warm up he can play fine. But other days if the warm up was
wrong the time limit is 20 - 30 minutes. If he pushes for it the next
day is bad. If he misses a couple of days he is lost.
Players 3 & 4 will sometimes talk about pumping up the chops. And if
they are pumped they play differently than normal. They can feel
yesterdays playing still affecting the lips 12, 24, sometimes 48 hours
later. This is not pumping up it is swelling caused by bruising the
lips.
Player 4 is different in that he has to keep a certain amount of
swelling in the top lip to play at all. That's why a weekend off leads
to a bad day or two. They sometimes make a lump, knot, or flap swell
up to get the lips to buzz.
These are alike in that they are all using an open aperture embouchure
setting. They are not making the lips touch always. Some like player 1
cheat by means of an embouchure shift. Player 2 accepts it and lives
with it. Both 3 & 4 use mouthpiece pressure to control the lip
aperture.
The lip aperture should be a result of the air. You start off with the
lips close and touching. A rush of air forces them apart and forms an
aperture. The muscle tension tries to restore the normal touching and
a vibration is set up.
If the lips are apart before the air is delivered then pressure is
used to make the lips close. The rim of the mouthpiece presses the
soft lip muscles into the teeth and continues to press until they are
flattened out and finally touch.
How did this start?
Well some players part the lips when they take a breath. Others part
them as they place the mouthpiece. They stick the tongue through the
lips to moisten the lips and mouthpiece rim. The problem is they don't
make a mental effort to close the lips before the mouthpiece pins them
in place. Some do this with every breath.
http://www.bbtrumpet.com/pix/CB20.jpg
This simply DESTROYS the embouchure making it impossible to play high.
So while the horn CAN play the lips as we play higher it starts to
lose that ability and gets weaker finally giving us nothing. The lips
on the other hand can ALWAYS play the horn.
If we control the mouthpiece then we control the horn. The trumpet is
ONLY an amplifier. Play the mouthpiece off pitch center and the tone
suffers. As we get higher and higher notes the ones we can mouthpiece
buzz are the ones that we can play musically 100% of the times.
Forming an embouchure should never involve physical gymnastics. Any
extreme that we do weakens the embouchure and compromises the muscles.
There have always been people that hated closed sets. "They sound
pinched..."
There have always been people that loved closed sets. "They feel so
easy..."
They are both right.
We will ALWAYS get a bigger better sound when the lips are relaxed and
free to vibrate. A closed set doesn't have to mean tense or sealed
shut and I think it shouldn't mean that.
The problem is that so many players switch to a closed set because
they didn't get anywhere with a more open set. This is where many
players with 2-3 hours a WEEK of practice time end up so that they can
TRY and ENJOY playing.
I feel that this change is sometimes used as a shortcut and done
before air delivery/ support issues are addressed properly. When done
before air issues are fixed it rarely works well. See you need BETTER
support to play well closed and get a big sound so if you don't fix
the air it won't sound good.
Another problem with CHANGING to a closed set is the OVER DO syndrome.
We over do things by nature.
5 times more curl than we should use, more tension than we should use,
more compression than we should use.... And so we simply bottle up both
the air and the sound.
This is what gives that horrible squeal factor that makes you want to
leave the room when some people play. It is caused by TOO much curl,
or compression and NOT enough support and relaxation.
Sometimes they TRY buzzing for a few minutes or a day but squeeze the
lips shut and do more of a squeak than a buzz. This makes a horrid
sound. A buzz is LOOSE, fat, loud and with almost no tension. Start
with your lips at rest and spit. This would be a buzz if you kept
blowing air. NO tension, big sound, lips touching. Yet it is NOTHING
in common with the made up contorted version of buzzing some people
try to adopt.
SOUND is the most important thing. (Nobody ever got a gig because they
felt like it was easy to play or the mouthpiece felt good. They get
gigs because they SOUND good.)
Why would I choose buzzing over lip curl?
First buzzing is easy to control and learn in a few days while curl
can take months or years to master. Some people NEVER get control over
the use of lip curl. Some never get to the point where they sound good
in ALL registers again.
Second because making lip curl does change the sound a LOT as
compression is added.
Tongue arch makes very little change to the core sound but tension,
curl and compression makes a noticeable change to the sound.
I have heard people play a 2 octave scale and you would swear that it
was really 3 different people each doing a few notes of the scale.
(This is a real hot button with me as I hate that kind of sound
change.)
This happens because they are using facial tension or compression or
lip roll to change every note. That means the vibration point is
changing to firmer and firmer tissue, or softer tissue and that causes
the difference in tone. (Yes IF IF IF they relax something else ENOUGH
the change can be made less noticeable. But most people never learn to
relax enough.)
This is because most of them are coming from open embouchures where
they used tension and pressure and they can't seem to relax the facial
tension and allow the sound to come out well. When you add all of that
together it sounds choked off.
We tend to think of what is the IDEAL embouchure....
Well the world is NOT an IDEAL place and we need to make allowances
for that.
Trumpet playing is about making sensible compromises. But we must
always keep the sound as the #1 priority.
Because of how VASTLY different open and closed sets work we need to
do the things that HELP the set we use. When we blindly pick up ideas
that look good from the other camp we normally make things sound much
worse.
I have students that are open players and they have range and sound
but we work tongue arch, hiss, support, find THEIR compression from
(frown, pucker, chin bunch, move jaw, pull top lip down, pull in
towards the center... many different types of compression).....
I have students that are closed players and they have range and sound
but we work on relaxing the facial tension, using LESS curl when we
make compression, pulling the corners in to aid the sound, LOUD mpc
buzzing....
It is about using the RIGHT thing at the right time. Boots are great
for hiking but would be horrible if running a 10K race.
So BOTH open and closed have their merits and drawbacks. Nothing is
perfect.
I was asked this last week.
[quote]Why would I choose buzzing over lip curl? I see these as
independent actions and don't understand the implication for mutual
exclusivity.
What am I missing?[/quote]
You are missing the fact that while one can use lip curl and buzz; one
does NOT have to use lip curl in order to buzz.
Yes lip curl CAN make the upper register easier for many.
However; it is tricky to learn to control it and takes some players
YEARS before they feel comfortable with it. (This mainly happens to
those that used a lot of tension or pressure; because those will choke
out the sound when you add lip curl. Also many who try lip curl use
way too much and lose the low register or resort to using multiple
embouchures to play a song. Ever heard some of the painfully thin
sounding, nasal squealers? They are using too much curl and some
tension. The sound that many make when using curl is simply
unpleasant.
When I had a chance to meet ALL of my students in person I used curl a
LOT with them. I was able to say NO that is too much curl, or loosen
the facial muscles and make them connect the high and low register
with one set.
I see about 1 in 1000 of those who are influenced by my teaching now
and because of this I have to approach it differently.
I rarely suggest curl until a last effort now because it is so much
harder for them to get right without a teacher that I would rather use
plain buzzing with NO curl as it is difficult to mess that up.
Yes I understand that people do have some success with different
methods and I am pleased that they do. But you asked ME why I chose
something and it is because of the odds of success.
People switch to curl mainly to get more range. So they really don't
understand why MOST of the practice needs to be in and below the
staff. Even giving them exercises that stay low they will (on their
own) supplement with LOTS and LOTS of high junk that disconnects their
registers.
See they have NEVER successfully switched anyone to what they are
attempting for themselves and don't know that their instinct is WRONG
this time.
I am merely looking at what people are prone to do when they teach
themselves and try something as different as curl.
I learned it but I had a teacher who showed me and told me and made me
play low notes.
I also remember failing at it BEFORE I got a teacher because I thought
that since it was a "high note" setting then I must need to play high
notes a lot to get it.
Remember Systematic Approach to Daily Practice. It divided high and
low about in half and told you to do LOTS of exercises from other
books.
Those who did EXACTLY what it said were helped. But how many did all
of those EXTRA exercises out of the other books? 20%, 10%
How many did EXTRA attempts at the high arpeggios? Maybe even extra
sets of them.
See Most did the exact OPPOSITE of what the author said to do.
I am just making an attempt to paint a completely fair picture of the
pros and cons. It is NOT an easy road that everyone completes
painlessly. I think that people should know the possibilities. In
person during lessons when people want to make this switch I tell them
the pros and cons. If I tell them in a lesson then I would be a jerk
not to tell them on line as well.
It is still up to you to make your choice and practice as you see fit.
.
I know that everyone will have an opinion. This was MINE.
Have a great week.
Again I feel that:
While the feedback from the horn CAN play the lips; as we play higher
it starts to lose that ability and gets weaker finally giving us
nothing. The lips on the other hand can ALWAYS play the horn and this
is why I buzz.
This is a FAKE email address for the spammers to use. My real address
is on my website http://www.BbTrumpet.com
Clint "Pops" McLaughlin
Randy Replogle
Why? At least some of us miss your teachings?
Randy
Jeff
Flip Oakes
What a well thought out fabulous post!
Flip Oakes
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760-643-1501
760-643-1511 Fax
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Saxology
"HiC" <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170399197.5...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
>
> If you believe this, you should be able to describe *exactly" how free-
> buzzing is ever of demonstrable benefit, in detailed, physiological
> terms.
>
THe first time I got laid it was great. I couldn't describe "exactly how
getting laid was a demonstrable benefit" to me "in detailed, physiological
terms" but if you don't t think its great, then just move along.
-Sax