Reiner Brandenburg 2
ansermetniac
http://members.aol.com/ansermetniac6/frjsb22.mp3
http://members.aol.com/ansermetniac5/frjsb23.mp3
From Columbia Special Products P 14161 LP where it was fake stereo. It is
mono here. They just did a frequency thing and not a phase thing because it
mixed back well
Soloists
Felix Eyle-Violin
Julius Baker-Flute
Robert Bloom-Oboe
Leonard Rose-Cello
F Valenti-Harpsichord
William Vachiano-Piccolo trumpet
In all fairness to the Vach, piccolo trumpets in the early 50s were FAR from
perfected. Even Paolo Longinotti had his problems on Muchinger's late 40s
recording. So let's all thank Reinhold Schilke for his work in this area
The flip is the Bran 1. Reiner used the infamous Weldon Wilbur and not
James Chambers on horn so I have no interest in transfering it. Maybe Reiner
did not make up with Chambers yet. Remember, after the 1941-42 season,
Reiner fired Chambers from the third horn chair in Pittsburgh for
professional incompetence. He said he had no idea how to play the horn. So
what was Chambers to do for employment? He spent the next 4 years as
Principal in Philly!!! And then 23 years as Principal in NY!!!
Some Brandenburg trivia--Toscanini played #2 twice. The first in 1936. Harry
Glantz, then all of 41 told Toscanini that he was too old to play the part.
So Alexander Williams subbed on Eb Clarinet. In 1938 he played it for the
final time. Bernard Baker was allowed to play most of it an octave down.
My my, have times changed today.
Enjoy
Abbedd
WWise72606
perfected. Even Paolo Longinotti had his problems on Muchinger's late 40s
recording. So let's all thank Reinhold Schilke for his work in this area>>
Hats should be taken off for Bill Vacchiano!
That was an amazing recording.
Splicing was not done in those days. Balance was left up to the artists.
Recording sessions could go on forever.
There was no union contract for that kind of recording.
I think I heard that he played the work on an F trumpet!
That is not today's way of playing the work, but I thrilled to hear Vach's
swashbuckling approach to the trumpet player's Mount Everest.
Wilmer
WWise72606
James Chambers on horn so I have no interest in transfering it. Maybe Reiner
did not make up with Chambers yet. Remember, after the 1941-42 season,
Reiner fired Chambers from the third horn chair in Pittsburgh for
professional incompetence. He said he had no idea how to play the horn. So
what was Chambers to do for employment? He spent the next 4 years as
Principal in Philly!!! And then 23 years as Principal in NY!!!
Some Brandenburg trivia--Toscanini played #2 twice. The first in 1936. Harry
Glantz, then all of 41 told Toscanini that he was too old to play the part.
So Alexander Williams subbed on Eb Clarinet. In 1938 he played it for the
final time. Bernard Baker was allowed to play most of it an octave down.
My my, have times changed today.
Enjoy
Abbedd >><BR><BR>
When I was a member of the Baltimore Symphony I sat next to a former Curtis
student, Joe Fischer. Joe was a classmate of Jimmy Chambers.
Fritz Reiner was the conductor of the student orchestra. He treat the students
very harshly.....he was a S.O.B.
Reiner held grudges against those poor souls.
On several occasions later in life, Reiner lashed out at his former students.
Frank Sinatra, the percussionist not the singer, was one of Reiner's victims.
Reiner hated Sinatra from the first time he saw him until the last time, when
Sinatra was hired for a date with Reiner.
When Reiner spotted him he started screaming and ordered Sinatra to leave the
session.
Reiner yelled to Sintra that he was a disaster at Curtis and he would not allow
him to be one in the studio where he was conducting.
Ah..........the good old days.
How does that story about Reiner and Kaderabik go?
Wilmer
ansermetniac
I heard that when Reiner died the CSO members, all of them, went to the
funeral just to be sure.
I studied with Paul Rudoff who was one of Chamber's first students at
Juiliard. That is how I know all the stories.
That Juilliard horn class included
Ross Taylor
Clare Van Norman
Myron Bloom
Ray DeIntiniss
Paul Ingraham
I think Jimmy proved he was a great teacher with that class alone
Abbedd
"WWise72606" <wwise...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030921170949...@mb-m19.aol.com...
WWise72606
Ross Taylor
Clare Van Norman
Myron Bloom
Ray DeIntiniss
Paul Ingraham is still playing and he is one of the best.
We play in the Brooklyn Philharmonic together.
Wilmer
ansermetniac
third horn in the NY Phil. Erik, two years older than me played with me in
the Huntinton training orchestra.
Do you know trumpeter, Al Spiro?
Abbedd
"WWise72606" <wwise...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030921175501...@mb-m21.aol.com...
vinyl1
Andre Tchaikovsky/Don Giovanni Overture, both performed by Reiner and the
CSO, was originally supposed to have a Bach Brandenburg concerto on the
other side instead of the overture.
Apparently, it had to be taken off at the last minute due to some sort of
dispute involving that pugnacious conductor.
Supposedly, several copies of the original coupling have been found. If
they exist, they would be among the rarest and most valuable RCAs.
"ansermetniac" <anserm...@optimumonline.net> wrote in message
news:Rcnbb.68062$BS1.29...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Matthew燘. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:3f6e3be3$0$75892$45be...@newscene.com:
> Someone once told me that RCA LSC-2287, the Mozart Piano Concerto #25
> with Andre Tchaikovsky/Don Giovanni Overture, both performed by Reiner
> and the CSO, was originally supposed to have a Bach Brandenburg concerto
> on the other side instead of the overture.
>
> Apparently, it had to be taken off at the last minute due to some sort of
> dispute involving that pugnacious conductor.
Either that, or Sonny Bono went back in time to persuade the Continental
Congress to enact perpetual copyright ... and the Bach piece was withdrawn
at the demand of the Bach estate.
> Supposedly, several copies of the original coupling have been found. If
> they exist, they would be among the rarest and most valuable RCAs.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
Heck51
> Soloists
>
> Felix Eyle-Violin
> Julius Baker-Flute
> Robert Bloom-Oboe
> Leonard Rose-Cello
> F Valenti-Harpsichord
> William Vachiano-Piccolo trumpet
I recently acquired the 2 disc complete set from Lys. before it
folded...it is really a very good set overall -
"In all fairness to the Vach, piccolo trumpets in the early 50s were
FAR from
perfected."
He actually has a pretty decent go of it - esp for that period. some
of those early Bburg #2s were awful - out of tune, cracked notes by
the bushelful....
"The flip is the Bran 1. Reiner used the infamous Weldon Wilbur and
not
James Chambers on horn so I have no interest in transfering it."
The horns aren't bad on #1. Why is Wilbur "infamous"??
Wasn't he principal in NYPO after Jaenicke and before Chambers??
I have a NYPO listing of him as horn soloist for a 2/14/44 performance
of a Handel-Wibur "Concerto-Piccolo for Horn & strings".
Jos Singer appears as horn soloist a year later - 3/14/45 - works by
Mozart - Serenade K.361, and Beethoven - Piano/wind 5tet, with Szell @
kybd.
"Maybe Reiner did not make up with Chambers yet. Remember, after the
1941-42 season, Reiner fired Chambers from the third horn chair in
Pittsburgh for
professional incompetence."
Reiner was a real prick, no doubt. Dick Moore- PittsSO, NBC and
MetOpera with Reiner - really hated his guts...he had lots of
company...
"Some Brandenburg trivia--Toscanini played #2 twice. The first in
1936. Harry
> Glantz, then all of 41 told Toscanini that he was too old to play the part.
> So Alexander Williams subbed on Eb Clarinet. In 1938 he played it for the
> final time. Bernard Baker was allowed to play most of it an octave down.
> My my, have times changed today."
Casals did it with Eb soprano Saxophone, didn't he?? the story has it
that some poor trumpet player croaked as a reult of trying to play the
2nd Bburg - Casals, not wanting to ring up the casualty list, had the
tpt part played on soprano sax!!
quite a contrast with Reiner, who would have probably scheduled it
every week if he thought he could dispose of annoyingly incompetent
musicians!! ;)
ansermetniac
I was told about a hornist who played one year as principal or associate in
the NY Phil between Jaenicke and Chambers who was fired after one year. He
could play anything but sounded like a garbage can. I assume it was Wilbur.
Until Chambers, Jaenicke was really never replaced. Singer was only the
associate until he switched chairs with Chambers in 1968. Although he is
playing the solos on the Mahler 4 with Walter and Halban. He played the 4th
with Lenny too. It must have been a specialty. Maybe Singer would have been
the principal but Mason Jones came back form the Army in 1946 and wanted his
chair back and would not be co-principal with Chambers.
As good as Singer Ceminaro and Myers may or not be, Chambers has never
been replaced.
Abbedd
"Heck51" <dgall...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:e87e1a2e.03092...@posting.google.com...
Heck51
"I was told about a hornist who played one year as principal or
associate in
> the NY Phil between Jaenicke and Chambers who was fired after one year. He
> could play anything but sounded like a garbage can. I assume it was Wilbur."
That sounds correct, and the time period is right...wilbur does a good
job on BburgI however. he chips a high F in the opening mvt, but aside
from that, he is quite solid.
"As good as Singer Ceminaro and Myers may or not be, Chambers has
never
been replaced."
Yes, i always liked Chambers' playing. Cerminaro was excellent, and i
like Myer's playing also, but Chambers had a real characteristic
sound, and style...
Guess who?
more than one.
ansermetniac
Abbedd
"Guess who?" <brianda...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:74f77e5e.03092...@posting.google.com...
Eric Grunin
<anserm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>At what point, in which mvt does it sound like two?
There are many places in the last movement where it certainly sounds
like *somebody* is doubling the trumpet part. There's even one note
where only one of the two makes a clam.
It's not the very highest passages (the ones with the Fs) but the ones
that lie a bit lower (around C). Try mm 16, 22, 42, 52, 80, 93, etc.
Hypothesis: it was a primitive attempt at multitracking. The trumpet
initially left out the highest passages, then did a second pass, just
filling in what was missing; but it wasn't planned carefully enough,
so he ended up doubling himself for a bar here and a bar there, and
they couldn't edit it out.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
Guess who?
first. I didn't listen that closely to the third. After I get my
dryer fixed I'll give you measure #'s. It is a different player, not
a dub. Besides playing out of tune, the assistant has a duller sound
and clams a lot of notes.
brian
all the spots where one would want to lay out if need be to get a
little extra rest, but sometimes they both play. would this have been
recorded once through, or did they do splicing then? i could see if it
was once through and he had an assistant who was told, you play here,
here and here so i can rest, then they go and he decides, oh i dont
wanna rest here, theres both of them playing. someone mentioned
piccolos being in their infancy then. true, but vacc always hated the
piccolo, he compared it to a man made lake. more likely he was using
his bach F trumpet which i believe he still has and theres also a nice
photo of him with it that i recall seeing maybe in an old ITG journal.
someone should ask him for the story of this recording before its too
late.