what horns did the jazz greats use?
pede...@apple.com
I am starting to think about buying a nice horn, and was wondering if some of
the kind folks here could pitch their favorite jazz trumpeters as well as
their fav horns, and maybe give a brief example of the sound they get out of
it, possibly referring to an album.
In general, is their any way to find out what horn a trumpeter uses? For
recent albums and new players I would imagine it might be pretty hard to find out.
Thanks,
Ted
JFDonaldsn
The question before the house was: Suggest some favorite
jazz trumpeters, his or her fav horns, and good album example...
Tom Harrell plays an old nickel Connstellation; check out his most recent
"Labyrinth." Tim Hagas plays an old raw brass Bach; check out his most recent
"Audible Architecture." Jon Faddis plays a Schilke S42; check out "Hornacopia."
Miles Davis played a Martin Committee; check out "Kind of Blue" (duh!); Don
Ellis played a special Holton 4-valve quarter tone trumpet; check out "Electric
Bath." Jack Sheldon plays a Bach; check out "On My Own." Chet Baker first
played a Martin Committee (frankly, almost all the great jazzers in the 50's
did), then played whatever somebody would lend him; check out "Chet" and
"Diane." Arturo Sandoval played a Schilke S32 (I think, S something I'm
sure--yeah, I know, he has his own LeBlanc horn now but it looks just like the
Schilke to me...) on "Flight to Freedom." Wynton plays that amazing Monette,
check out "Majesty of the Blues." His progeny, Terence Blanchard, Marlon Jordan
and Ron Miles all play Monettes; check out, respectively "Simply Stated,"
"Learson's Return," and "Women's Day." Clark Terry used to play Selmer (Paris)
trumpets, now plays a new blue Martin Committee; check out "Yes, the Blues."
Bobby Shew plays his Yamaha YTR 6310Z, check out "Playing with Fire." Bill
Chase played a Schilke B6L on "Ennea/Pure Music." And so on.
I guess I got a lot of favorites...
>...is their any way to find out what horn a trumpeter uses?
It helps to be either obsessive/compulsive or anal retentive, but you can often
identify the horns from the pictures. Some magazines like Windplayer and Down
Beat identify equipment when writing about particular players.
Jim Donaldson
Denver, Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
Judith1734
Anyone know what both Herb Alpert and Al Hirt play/played?
I would also be interested in which mp they use/used.
The "Al Hirt" mp's by Jet-Tone -- are they actually designed or used by Hirt,
by any chance? What, exactly, is his input in their production?
RHAAPANEN
One of Seattle's best jazz players, Jay Thomas, uses a Benge. Some of the best
lead players, Jack Halsey, Brad Allison, and Doug Canning play Collechios (sp?)
Hope that helps.
MFerguson7
I know that Al Hirt plays on his personal model Courtois.
JFDonaldsn
>Anyone know what both Herb Alpert and Al Hirt play/played?
During the 60's and 70's Al Hirt played a gold plated LeBlanc, made in France
and no longer imported. It was "The Al Hirt signature model," designed by him
and made by LeBlanc. The brace on the tuning slide had a "coin" in the middle
which had his sillouette engraved.
Herb Alpert played an old Benge. It looked old (peeling lacquer, etc.) back in
the Tijuana Brass days and as of a few years ago, I think he was still playing
it.
>I would also be interested in which mp they use/used.
Haven't a clue.
allyn j erickson
Harry James played (in order so far as I know): An H.B. Jay gold plated
tpt, a King Liberty model raw brass, a Selmer Paris "long reach" gold
plated, and, to the end of his playing days, a King Super 20 (Symphony 20?)
dual bore with sterling silver bell.
Doc Severinsen, while leading the Tonight show band, played a Getzen Eterna
Severinsen model, which he designed. He now plays a Severinsen/Akright Bel
Canto made in Oakland Ca. I saw him in concert not too long ago and his
flugelhorn appeared to be a Kanstul (copper bell).
gary lewis
Freddie Hubbard, Chuck Mangionie, Walt Johnson Callichio
Miles Davis, Wallace Roney, Mark Isham, Chet Baker Martin
Committee
Jon Faddis, Dizzy Gillespie, Bill Chase
Schilke
Roy Hargrove Inderbinen (Swiss)
Clifford Brown Blessing Super Artist
Bobby Shew, Al Vizzuti, Jim Manley YAMAHA
Bix Biederbeck Conn Victor
Claudio Roditi, Wayne Bergerone Kanstul
Louie Armstrong, Harry James King Silversonic & Selmer Paris
That's about all I can think of off the top of my head, if someone you want
to know
about is not listed, ask me.
Jason
David Miller
AlHirt used to play a Martin then a personal model LeBlanc, now, a
Courtois(sp?).
Lots of cats played the Martin Committee-
Chet Baker
Lee Morgan
Maynard
Dizzy
Miles
Jacoby
on and on.
Some still do-
Wallace Roney
Satchmo played a Selmer. Harry James too, then he went on to a King.
Clifford Brown played a Blessing.
Freddie Hubbard played a King, then on to Callichio.
Maynard played a Selmer, Martin, Conn, now Holton.
Lots of guys also played the Conn Connstellation.
Rex Denton
>
> It helps to be either obsessive/compulsive or anal retentive, but you can often
> identify the horns from the pictures. Some magazines like Windplayer and Down
> Beat identify equipment when writing about particular players.
>
products that they are endorsing, while actually playing different horns. For
example on Woody Shaw's "Stepping Stone" he is photographed with the Bach
trumpet, but it sounds like on most of the cuts, he's actually playing that
wierd cornet/flugel hybrid that was so distinctive sounding.
I'd be real interested in knowing more about this particular horn if anyone
knows anything about them.
I also know several top shelf guys that, at least several years ago, were
hawking the Y******s when in reality they were playing horns on their jobs.
Names are not given to protect their endorsements.
Rex
Albert L. Lilly III
In article <01bd0bdc$add574c0$b04d...@garyl.airnet.net>, "gary lewis"
<ga...@airnet.net> wrote:
Freddie Hubbard, Chuck Mangionie, Walt Johnson Callichio
Miles Davis, Wallace Roney, Mark Isham, Chet Baker Martin
Committee
Jon Faddis, Dizzy Gillespie, Bill Chase
Schilke
Roy Hargrove Inderbinen (Swiss)
Clifford Brown Blessing Super Artist
Bobby Shew, Al Vizzuti, Jim Manley YAMAHA
Bix Biederbeck Conn Victor
Claudio Roditi, Wayne Bergerone Kanstul
Louie Armstrong, Harry James King Silversonic & Selmer Paris
<end quoted>
For the most part, correct at some time in their lives.
Mangione made it big in the 1970's on a Yamaha , I think. Chase played a
Martin for a long time (read the Chase article in the Sept., 1997 ITG
Journal on Chase) before a Schilke. Dizzy's last horn was a Schilke, but
I believe there were others along the way before that. The last Schilke
was a gift from Faddis. Walt Johnson was at one point in time a Yamaha
Artist (I think, doing this from memory and not a reference paper).
I could list all night if you'd like.
__________________________________________________________
Albert L. Lilly III
Trumpeter, Brass Clinician, Arranger and Composer
E-Mail Address is available at <http://www.scican.net/~alilly/address.html>
__________________________________________________________
BMoon1956
> >Anyone know what both Herb Alpert and Al Hirt play/played?
>
>
Herb played a Chicago Benge. When I saw him several years ago he told me that
he was playing a Marcincawicz (sp?) at the time.
Brian Moon
BMoon1956
> jazz trumpeters as well as
>their fav horn
Earl Gardner plays a Bach. Marcus Belgrave uses a Schilke and a Bach at
different times. When he was with Kenton, Jay Sollenberger used a Calicchio
Brian Moon
Donovan Bankhead
>Bobby Shew, Al Vizzuti, Jim Manley YAMAHA
Jim Manley plays a LT180s-43* Bach.
Donovan
Tulsa Band Instruments
SCR...@webzone.net
http://www.webzone.net/SCREAM/
"When you are able to admire and honor others, you will receive the same
honor in return."
--Arturo Sandoval
Trnsport97
Here's some of my favorites:
Clifford Brown - Martin Committee
Doc Severinson - Getzen (in the 1960's)
Maynard - Conn Constellation (1950's - 1960's) Holton( 1970-)
Bill Chase - Schilke B3
Miles Davis - Martins
gary lewis
>
> >Bobby Shew, Al Vizzuti, Jim Manley YAMAHA
>
>
> Jim Manley plays a LT180s-43* Bach.
>
NOPE, as of about October ' 97 Jim sold his Bach and bought
2 Yamaha Bobby Shew Z horns. Jim and I talked about this over email
and at one point I was considering buying his Bach, but he wanted too much.
Jason
Virtuoso2B
Must tell us someting about the new Yamaha horns. For all the criticism
they've been getting, lots of big name guys have been buying them.
Turbotrump
>virtu...@aol.com wrote:
>Must tell us someting about the new Yamaha horns. For all the criticism
>they've been getting, lots of big name guys have been buying them.
>
The key word here is "buying". Are these artists "buying" Yamahas or is Yamaha
providing and/or paying for them to use the Yams?
Tulsa Band
> NOPE, as of about October ' 97 Jim sold his Bach and bought
>2 Yamaha Bobby Shew Z horns. Jim and I talked about this over email
>and at one point I was considering buying his Bach, but he wanted too much.
Oohhh.. Okay, well Jim does use alot of the playing principles that Bobby
Shew uses. I've said that the 6310Z horn is a good horn for players that
play like Bobby Shew. There aren't many of those guys around...
Donovan Bankhead
Tulsa Band Instruments
tul...@tulsa.oklahoma.net
http://www.tulsa.oklahoma.net/~tulband/
(800)564-1676
Frank Sabella
JFDonaldsn wrote:
>
> >Donovan said: Jim Manley plays a LT180s-43* Bach.
>
> >Jason (a/k/a Gary Lewis) said: NOPE, as of about October '97 Jim
> >sold his Bach and bought 2 Yamaha Bobby Shew Z horns.
>
> >For all the criticism they've been getting, lots of big name guys have
> >been buying them.
>
> >"buying" Yamahas or is Yamaha providing and/or paying for them
> >to use the Yams?
>
> former Kenton lead player, who is now a Yamaha Artist, who used to play Schilke
> trumpets. I asked if he felt that the Yamahas were better playing horns than
> the Schilkes he played for many years. He, very candidly I thought, said that
> when he started his career as a clinician, he needed a sponsor and knew Schilke
> would not be interested because Schilke needs no promotion. Schilke has limited
> production (they are now on serial number 41XXX I believe after 40 years of
> production--you do the math) and easily sell every horn they can make, even
> though the price is 40 to 60% more than Bach, more for the P5-4 piccolo, which
> is oftentimes difficult to find even if you have the $2000+ to spend. He had
> loved his Schilke horns, playing an S32 prototype for 10 years. But his career
> was changing. He approached Yamaha who was eager to have him. Vax, in fact, has
> just released his own Yamaha model which he, Tom Malone, and the chief Yamaha
> Japanese horn designer have put together (in stores now!). They have sponsored
> his clinics and promoted his efforts in ways he himself could never do. I
> suspect the same is true for Vizzuti and Shew.
>
> Does Yamaha pay him to play their horn? No, I don't think so. Do they support
> him and make it advantageous for him to play one? Yes, but it is a complicated
> relationship. Do I think he's play a Yamaha if he couldn't sound as well on it?
> I don't know, but I don't think so.
>
> One last point: my high school band director, jazz trumpet player and composer
> Bob Montgomery, now also a Yamaha Artist (check out his article in the Artists
> section of the Yamaha web site), played Yamahas for twenty years before he
> hooked up with them. He has told me that he thinks Yamaha currently is the
> manufacturer most responsive to professional players, surveying their input
> into product design. The Z horn is a case in point. In its first incarnation
> it was the YTR636 (and 736), Bob McCoy assisted them and they modified the horn
> slightly to the YTR6310B (for Bob) and, most recently, modified it slightly
> (apparently the lead pipe is where most of the effort has been expended) for
> Shew and we have the TYR 6310Z. Several improvements as the result of pro
> player input. Of course, the whole design was a knock-off of the Schilke B7,
> but that is another story...
>
> I don't own a single Yamaha horn, but I think it does tell us something about
> the company and the horns.
>
> Sorry this is so long.
Great Post! you are a wealth of knowledge!
I am shopping for a new horn now for big band work. Last weekend I
played a lightweight Bach 72, Schilke S32, Yamaha 6310Z and Kanstul
1501. I've also looked at the large bore heavy wall Yamaha Bb, and the
King Golden Flair.
Having been a Bach player forever, it is great to try out these
different horns. FWIW, the Yamahas are good trumpets. My general
opinion is that they have very good intonation, excellent slotting and
are very free blowing. The 6310Z is amazingly free blowing for a medium
bore (.454") horn. (I suspect the reverse leadpipe helps a lot). When
you consider that Yamahas are among some of the less expensive pro
horns, they are an excellent value and easy to play IMHO.
My observation is that the Yamahas don't have as resonant a tone quality
as some of the other models I've tried. The Schilke S32 is also a
lightweight trumpet, but produces a much richer tone than the Yamaha
6310Z (of course, the Schilke is a large bore horn). The Kanstul 1501
has a rich timbre but is a much heavier horn than the Z. The Yamaha
heavywall Bb has a nice tone quality with a good center to the notes.
Yamaha is doing something with design/production/materials to build
horns with a very centered pitch. I noticed this as well comparing
their C horn to two Bachs. I would probably have to say that Yamaha's
have an "accurate" quality about them that comes with a slight loss of
warmth.
The Z has character and produces an aggressive sound, particularly on
lead work. It does sound very good and the medium bore makes it easier
to play loud, although overshooting notes can be a problem until you
adjust to it.
Anyway, my two cents worth on Yamahas.
Frank Sabella
JFDonaldsn
W3HO
And Danny Davis plays a beautiful looking, bright sounding, 1936 Martin
Committee. Doug in Annapolis
Russ Button
Actually, not all Martin Committee horns are the same. The one the
great jazz players used was the model #3, which was a large bore horn.
They are very rare and very highly sought after. Johnny Coppola, my
hero, played one for nearly 30 years before it wore out. He looked for
another one for years and finally got Joe Marcinkiewicz to make him
a large bore horn with a bell made after the one from his old Martin #3.
The new Martins are not the same horn as the great #3, but this horn
that Marcinkiewicz makes is a wonder. But then I'm prejudiced.
Russ Button
David Miller <Dave...@webtv.net> wrote:
: Lots of cats played the Martin Committee-
ThomasJ611
Funny thing is, I do believe that it is the artist that creates the sound, not
the horn. True the horn is responsible for the feel, and has a huge effect on
what the player can do, I know i sound pretty much like myself on my old
Getzen, my younger Benge, or even on my Stomvi D. I spoke with Roy Hargrove
just after he obtained that handmade Swiss horn he plays, and when I asked him
about it, he said "Aw, it blows nice and has Cadillac valves, I don't care who
made it." I've heard similar stories about similar people, so don't buy the
horn because of the sound someone else got out of it, buy it for how it plays
for you.
pede...@apple.com
Thanks for all the responses to my question, very educational and useful!
Ted
SchilkeMan
avid Miller <Dave...@webtv.net> wrote:
: Lots of cats played the Martin Committee-
: Chet Baker
: Lee Morgan
: Maynard
: Dizzy
: Miles
: Jacoby
: on and on.
: Some still do-
: Wallace Roney
Don't forget Red Rodney!!!!!