resilvering trumpets
Skyhawk
high school is requiring my teen to march with a silver trumpet. Is
it possible to put on a silver coating to this trumpet? If so what
would be an appropriate charge?
Thanks,
Skyhawk
Robert DeSavage
Big bucks for sure. It's not merely slapping a coating on the horn
where any self respecting repair tech will want to completely overhaul
it before silver plating it. Osmun (a top notch shop in Mass) quotes
$695 for the complete job. Maybe I missed a 'lesser' priced job since
I looked at their site rather quickly. At that rate, unless the horn
is top of the line instrument, perhaps you'd be better off getting a
used student model. Most student horns today are silver plated. The
school REQUIRES it? They're rather free with your hard earned wouldn't
you say? 8-)
BOB
G or C Elliott *
trumpets in the light of today's economic situation? What kind of
short-sighted band director could be so insensitive to a parent's
problems as to enforce such a requirement. Yes, I know peer pressure is
at work here. Silver horns are "in" . So what if my kid brings a gold
plated horn. Does he have to downgrade to silver?
Imagine the embarrassment of a poor kid, who can barely afford a
lacquered horn having to pony up to a silver horn for such a
frivilous reason. I would tell the school to furnish him a silver horn.
its going to get beat to hell anyway. Glenn
* Re: Our address...From a Scot ballad, circa 1350:
"Oh, my name is Little Jock Elliot, an' ( wha daur meddle wi' me?")
Tim Priddy
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 23:40:23 -0400, G or C Elliott * wrote
(in message <25329-3F3...@storefull-2234.public.lawson.webtv.net>):
>
> This really touches a nerve for me. How can any school require silver
> trumpets in the light of today's economic situation? What kind of
> short-sighted band director could be so insensitive to a parent's problems
> as to enforce such a requirement. Yes, I know peer pressure is at work here.
> Silver horns are "in" . So what if my kid brings a gold plated horn. Does
> he have to downgrade to silver? Imagine the embarrassment of a poor kid, who
> can barely afford a lacquered horn having to pony up to a silver horn for
> such a frivilous reason. I would tell the school to furnish him a silver
> horn. its going to get beat to hell anyway. Glenn
I totally agree Glenn. These thoughts are exactly what I felt when I read this
post. Sounds like some kinda anal band director to me. And you are right. If
the music program requires a silver trumpet for uniformity, they should supply
it. Only fair.
Regards,
--
J. Timothy Priddy
trum...@chartermi.net
Lead, Ride, Side--All Styles--Educator, Arranger, Sight-Reader
Central Michigan Region
Catzz66
which was 200 for the prep work and 100 passed through from Anderson Plating
for the silver. I am not negative on it, except for the "requirement" for a
student to play on a silver horn. Some of these band directors don't seem to
live in the real world.
Dagger
Whats the big deal about silver
I would seriously ask questions
no parent should be forced to comply to this, it punishes the player
I would ask what legal athority that can force students to have a silver
trumpet
If I was a lawyer (but Im not Im a trumpet player college professor) would
sue them all
Provide me the name of the school and the name of the band director and I
will drill them a new one (need phone number)
DCD
"Skyhawk" <kountr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5159d322.03080...@posting.google.com...
Singleldy
wanted all silver horns on the field. He was a very young director and his it
casued him to make alot of mistakes. Since several of the drum corps ( who
supply instruments for the students to play) have gone to all silver
instruments thats where thats coming from. He, of course can do they same if he
has the budget. Let your child use the instrument he has and be the best he can
be on it. In answer to your question though - the instrument can be silver
plated but - depending on the instrument - the $300 + cost may not be cost
effective.
John Miller
> I agree with the group
> Whats the big deal about silver
> I would seriously ask questions
> no parent should be forced to comply to this, it punishes the player
> I would ask what legal athority that can force students to have a silver
> trumpet
> If I was a lawyer (but Im not Im a trumpet player college professor)
> would sue them all
> Provide me the name of the school and the name of the band director and I
> will drill them a new one (need phone number)
My goodness. Such anger from a college professor. Please tell us you were
either caught up in a fit of apoplexy or drunk when you wrote that
illiteracy.
The "big deal" isn't about silver, it's about uniformity. The school could
just as easily have required everyone to have lacquered brass. If you need
a crusade, you should begin not with the color of trumpets, but with the
more fundamental reality that in some schools, kids aren't allowed to march
with the band unless they wear uniforms! Hint: not every school pays for
uniforms.
Last time I checked, there was no constitutional right guaranteeing that
children could set their own terms for participation in school activities,
curricular or extracurricular, including band.
There are times when, to get along, it's wiser to go along. This looks like
one of those times. Would you want to be the kid whose parent "won" this
one? I surely wouldn't.
--
John Miller
Maybe Computer Science should be in the College of Theology.
-R. S. Barton
Doc
> There are times when, to get along, it's wiser to go along. This looks like
> one of those times. Would you want to be the kid whose parent "won" this
> one? I surely wouldn't.
Bullshit.
This can be a form of clandestine discrimination. Those who can't
afford it can't participate in band. It's a bullshit requirement. "You
already dropped $1,200 on a lacquer Strad? Gee, sorry, has to be
silver." Oh, bite me... Don't a lot of kids use crappy beater horns
for marching anyway, due to potential damage?
I'd get any like-minded parents together and have a chat with the band
director, then the principal. If that didn't get anywhere, and there
were no other avenues (possibly the school board?) I'd pull the kid
out of the program, possibly contact the news media if they offer an
interested ear. This dweeb's primary focus isn't on music education
anyway.
John Miller
> Bullshit.
I would have expected better of you, Doc.
<snip>
> This dweeb's primary focus isn't on music education
> anyway.
Keep in mind the topic is marching band. Not regular band; marching band.
So, your premise is that someone who has spent $1,200 on a lacquer Bach
can't afford $300 for a silver horn for marching? Now THAT's something
that fits the description of the gratuitously rude opening salvo in your
message.
--
John Miller
"The lesser of two evils -- is evil."
-Seymour (Sy) Leon
William Graham
Doc <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.03080...@posting.google.com...
Or.....I'd get some silver paint, and paint the outside of the kid's trumpet
silver......If the band director didn't like it, he could eat it........
Doc
> Doc wrote:
> > Bullshit.
>
> I would have expected better of you, Doc.
Didn't realize you had such dainty sensibilities...
Ok. Let's try this...
Horseshit.
> So, your premise is that someone who has spent $1,200 on a lacquer Bach
> can't afford $300 for a silver horn for marching? Now THAT's something
> that fits the description of the gratuitously rude opening salvo in your
> message.
Want some cheese with that whine?
You had a really privileged upbringing, didn't you. For many parents,
the cost of even a modest horn already took a bite out of their bank
account, and now they're supposed to pop for another? Or if the kid
bought it, he's already put in a lot of sweat equity to save up for
one horn. How long do you figure it will take to buy another? And why
the hell should he/she? It's high school band not DCI.
A horn can cost as much as some first cars, which the kid and/or
parents might be trying to buy also, along with fixing the washer,
paying the mortgage, etc. Again, it's a bullshit, unreasonable
requirement, and I would strongly question the band director's
motives. Is he trying to keep a particular demographic out of his
program?
The original poster didn't specify, does this requirment extend to all
the brass?
It also occurred to me, that if enough trumpets, especially the
stronger players threatened to drop out over it, he'd be up a creek.
Betcha the "requirement" would go away.
Doc
> Or.....I'd get some silver paint, and paint the outside of the kid's trumpet
> silver......If the band director didn't like it, he could eat it........
I suspect this director wants the polished silver look. And besides,
who's going to spray paint a decent horn?
An alternate might be to have beater horns carefully prepped and have
some auto shop or even a band parent with the right gear (compressor,
paint gun etc.) paint them with ultra glossy auto grade paint - much
more durable and glossy than off the shelf spray can paint. Materials
wouldn't cost much, a gallon or less of paint/reducer/hardener would
likely be more than enough to paint the entire brass section.
Robert DeSavage
The band director should get with the program. Uniformity is out. How
many groups and bands have we seen on TV that didn't look ragtag?
Despite their 'individuality' as to appearance, they are nevertheless
monsters both as individual and collective musicians.
What a life! Kids sporting Bach Strads? It must be nice to have
generous and affluent parents. At best, I had an Olds Recording
trumpet when I was in high school. I worked my ass off to pay for it
myself. Dad had enough worries just trying to make ends meet. I
couldn't afford a premium horn such as a Bach or a Benge until I was
40. I rue to think what's in store for the kids if the economic bottom
falls out.
Robert DeSavage
wrote:
>There are times when, to get along, it's wiser to go along. This looks like
>one of those times. Would you want to be the kid whose parent "won" this
>one? I surely wouldn't.
I'm sure that the kid would have a lot of support both from his peers
and his peers' parents. This is a case where someone is bucking
'authority'. Kids love it when that happens and love it more when
'authority' is cut down a notch or two. It's high time that those that
make these often expensive requirements understand that parents are
not a bottomless tit that feeds their enormous appetite for glory.
It's time to think outside the wallet.
John Miller
> The band director should get with the program. Uniformity is out.
This is interesting. It was out when I was coming up, 50 years ago, then it
was in, and now you're telling us it's out again? When did that happen?
> What a life! Kids sporting Bach Strads? It must be nice to have
> generous and affluent parents. At best, I had an Olds Recording
> trumpet when I was in high school. I worked my ass off to pay for it
> myself. Dad had enough worries just trying to make ends meet. I
> couldn't afford a premium horn such as a Bach or a Benge until I was
> 40. I rue to think what's in store for the kids if the economic bottom
> falls out.
But for now, horns have never been cheaper. A high school kid can get a
serviceable Ambassador for a couple days' work, and a nice like-new silver
entry-level pro horn for less than two weeks' work (~$300).
--
John Miller
There are two ways of disliking modern music. One is to dislike it. The
other is to like it rationally.
-paraphrased from Oscar Wilde
Robert DeSavage
wrote:
>Robert DeSavage wrote:
>
>> The band director should get with the program. Uniformity is out.
>
>This is interesting. It was out when I was coming up, 50 years ago, then it
>was in, and now you're telling us it's out again? When did that happen?
I can't give you a date. However, aside from the Welk reruns where
everything is uniform, when do you see a rock group or a jazz group
that shows any semblance of uniformity? While I can appreciate
'sameness', there is a acceptable limit. Although my four years in the
Navy music program required uniformity, it never extended to the
instruments finish or color. If the Navy didn't get into a twist about
it, why should the schools? Let's take it a step further. Are the
other instrumentalists required to play silver trombones, silver
saxes, silver metal clarinets? How about the Sousaphones? It seems to
me that all you see are those behemoths made of fiberglass and colored
white. I imagine those would stick out like a sore thumb. I doubt that
any parent who has a son or daughter that they bought a four or five
thousand dollar silver plated instrument for, would even remotely
tolerate that instrument played on a football field. While there are
pros and cons to this issue, the bottom line will be the parents who
say 'yes' or 'no'. If it's a determining factor that one must have a
silver plated instrument to be in the high school band, it's no big
deal that a kid isn't in the band. Lots of successful musicians have
gotten to that status without using a high school band as a stepping
stone. If it comes down to push and shove, it's the kids doing the
band director a favor and not vice versa. No interested kids, no job
for the qualified band director. After all, just as there is nothing
in the Constitution giving a kid the right to be above abiding by a
uniform policy, where does it say that a kid MUST be in the high
school band in the first place?
>
>> What a life! Kids sporting Bach Strads? It must be nice to have
>> generous and affluent parents. At best, I had an Olds Recording
>> trumpet when I was in high school. I worked my ass off to pay for it
>> myself. Dad had enough worries just trying to make ends meet. I
>> couldn't afford a premium horn such as a Bach or a Benge until I was
>> 40. I rue to think what's in store for the kids if the economic bottom
>> falls out.
>
>But for now, horns have never been cheaper. A high school kid can get a
>serviceable Ambassador for a couple days' work, and a nice like-new silver
>entry-level pro horn for less than two weeks' work (~$300).
Kids don't WANT a serviceable Ambassador or an entry level horn. They
demand the BEST, whether Daddy or Mommy can afford it or not. While
there's still the 'take it or leave it' option today, it's more likely
the kid will leave it and tell the parents to get ****ed to boot. 8-)
John Miller
> I can't give you a date. However, aside from the Welk reruns where
> everything is uniform, when do you see a rock group or a jazz group
> that shows any semblance of uniformity?
Where did that come from? The subject is marching bands. Not concert
bands, not Blood, Sweat and Tears, but marching bands.
> Are the
> other instrumentalists required to play silver trombones, silver
> saxes, silver metal clarinets?
No, but we might reasonably expect that a uniform color would be preferred
within a section. Please note that I don't have a dog in this fight, and
couldn't care less if the band director wants 'em all to be lacquered
brass.
> How about the Sousaphones? It seems to
> me that all you see are those behemoths made of fiberglass and colored
> white.
Exactly. Uniformly. When's the last time you saw a HS marching band on TV
with 4 white Sousaphones and a brass one?
> I imagine those would stick out like a sore thumb. I doubt that
> any parent who has a son or daughter that they bought a four or five
> thousand dollar silver plated instrument for, would even remotely
> tolerate that instrument played on a football field.
$3K - 4K for a high school kid? That's quite a straw man you set up there:
10x what's needed for an excellent silver horn. If the parents want to
piss their money away, that's a separate issue, and not really relevant to
this discussion.
> If it comes down to push and shove, it's the kids doing the
> band director a favor and not vice versa. No interested kids, no job
> for the qualified band director.
There are no favors, in either direction. The exchange must be equitable,
or the system breaks down in the long run. I believe it's been working for
at least a century.
I had written:
>>A high school kid can get a
>>serviceable Ambassador for a couple days' work, and a nice like-new silver
>>entry-level pro horn for less than two weeks' work (~$300).
Only excamples -- the point being only that horns have never been cheaper.
> Kids don't WANT a serviceable Ambassador or an entry level horn.
Well, of course not, and I was referring to an entry-level PRO horn, not a
student horn, specifically, ABB (anything but Bach).
--
John Miller
We cannot do everything at once, but we can do something at once.
-Calvin Coolidge
news.verizon.net
> Robert DeSavage wrote:
<SNIP>
> > How about the Sousaphones? It seems to
> > me that all you see are those behemoths made of fiberglass and colored
> > white.
>
> Exactly. Uniformly. When's the last time you saw a HS marching band on
TV
> with 4 white Sousaphones and a brass one?
>
And who owns the sousaphone? This whole discussion is silly - the point of
marching band is something akin to a team sport using music. I'ts NOT drum
corps, it's band. If you want uniformity, then the school should foot the
bill for the right equipment.
Sousaphones/Tubas match because the SCHOOL owns them. Drum equipment
matches because the SCHOOL owns them. If the students use "bell-front"
marching quasi-corps style instruments, odds are the SCHOOL owns them. You
are very confused.
I taught high school music for about 6 years in the 80's before joining the
military. I met many high school teachers who were confused about their
purpose. It's not winning competitions. It's teaching music and working
together.
Joe Dolsak
<SNIP SNIP>
John Miller
> Sousaphones/Tubas match because the SCHOOL owns them. Drum equipment
> matches because the SCHOOL owns them. If the students use "bell-front"
> marching quasi-corps style instruments, odds are the SCHOOL owns them.
Sure, no disagreement there.
> You are very confused.
I'm pretty sure you have me confused with someone advocating silver trumpets
for everyone, Joe (see below).
> I taught high school music for about 6 years in the 80's before joining
> the military. I met many high school teachers who were confused about
> their
> purpose. It's not winning competitions. It's teaching music and working
> together.
And on that, we couldn't agree more. To take it a step further, I don't
quite "get" the musical benefit to marching band in the first place (which
is not to say there are not other benefits).
Let me make this really clear, since subtlety doesn't work too well on
Usenet. For my part, if I were directing a HS marching band, I can't
imagine mandating silver trumpets for everyone. Now, if the band boosters
want to make that happen, more power to 'em. Just for the record, when I
was band director at Corry Field (Navy) in Pensacola, we did not require
matching trumpets.
This discussion started when several unanimously "piled on" the hapless band
director referenced in the OP's message, with one fellow even talking about
filing lawsuits and taking it upon himself to make a stern phone call to
the director. The opposing point of view didn't seem to be represented
very well.
The preferences of the vocal majority in this group notwithstanding, the
reality is, there are lots of all-silver trumpet sections out there.
Therefore, there must be a substantial school of thought that considers it
a Good Thing. I neither belong to that school, nor am I opposed to it.
Finally, if there is a HS situation in which silver trumpets are required
(hey, it happens, like it or not), I really don't know which I dislike
more, having tax dollars spent for such a thing, or making the parents pay.
--
John Miller
Base 8 is just like base 10, if you are missing two fingers.
-Tom Lehrer
Leonard & Peggy Brown
March down to the local pawn shop and buy a beat up silver trumpet for
marching season. This SHOULD cost a lot less than the resilvering.
I am NOT agreeing with the band director here. If he is hanging his contest
future on matched instruments instead of playing, marching and creativity he
won't be around long.
Leonard Brown,DM
Robert DeSavage
wrote:
>Robert DeSavage wrote:
>> I can't give you a date. However, aside from the Welk reruns where
>> everything is uniform, when do you see a rock group or a jazz group
>> that shows any semblance of uniformity?
>
>Where did that come from? The subject is marching bands. Not concert
>bands, not Blood, Sweat and Tears, but marching bands.
>
>> Are the
>> other instrumentalists required to play silver trombones, silver
>> saxes, silver metal clarinets?
>
>No, but we might reasonably expect that a uniform color would be preferred
>within a section. Please note that I don't have a dog in this fight, and
>couldn't care less if the band director wants 'em all to be lacquered
>brass.
>
Did you say PREFERRED???? I thought the bone of contention is what's
MANDATORY in order to secure a position in that particular band.
The entire discussion is ridiculous and will never be settled one way
or another. The bottom line is this - I've been exposed to bands of
all types as a player and have witnessed my share of marching bands in
parades as a spectator. You want to know something? I've seen trumpets
and other instruments usually not of any matching color and I truly
didn't give a damn what they looked like. I was more into how the band
sounded. I'm reasonably certain that the Joe and Jill Blow standing
next to me didn't much care either.
Dr. Trumpet
> Finally, if there is a HS situation in which silver trumpets are required
> (hey, it happens, like it or not), I really don't know which I dislike
> more, having tax dollars spent for such a thing, or making the parents pay.
Why would you dislike this more than buying 8 sousas all in silver?
I know of a couple schools which require silver horns for marching band.
They provide them all. Kids play silver trumpets that belong to the
school. Rental is $30 for the fall, and waived if a kid can't afford it.
I was planning on buying up about 20 good used Ambassador cornets,
fixing them up and having someone silver plate them, and keeping them
for my program. Thankfully, I gave up teaching in the school district
after 14 years and feel much better for it.
AL
--
_______________________________________________________________________
If replying by direct e-mail, please reply to alillyatscicandotnet,
where you replace "at" with "@" and "dot" with ".".
_______________________________________________________________________
John Miller
> In article <bh65bg$93d$1...@n4vu.com>, John Miller <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Finally, if there is a HS situation in which silver trumpets are required
>> (hey, it happens, like it or not), I really don't know which I dislike
>> more, having tax dollars spent for such a thing, or making the parents
>> pay.
>
> Why would you dislike this more than buying 8 sousas all in silver?
Never say I did, but let me think about it...O.K. -- two separate issues:
sousas per se and silver sousas. As a teacher, you know that having the
system own the sousas is probably the only way you'll have players. Since
the school is buying them, they're in a position to match them, and they
arguably ought to be the cheapest quality horns they can get, whether that
ends up being silver or fiberglass.
> I know of a couple schools which require silver horns for marching band.
> They provide them all. Kids play silver trumpets that belong to the
> school. Rental is $30 for the fall, and waived if a kid can't afford it.
>
> I was planning on buying up about 20 good used Ambassador cornets,
> fixing them up and having someone silver plate them, and keeping them
> for my program. Thankfully, I gave up teaching in the school district
> after 14 years and feel much better for it.
That was an extremely good intention of yours, and your departure is the
school system's loss. Glad you feel better; sorry you had to leave to
achieve it. I was only able to last a year before setting my sights on
college teaching. As it turned out, other opportunities intervened, and I
spent the next 30 years in corporate America.
--
John Miller
It's more than magnificent -- it's mediocre.
-Sam Goldwyn
John Miller
Never said I did, but let me think about it...O.K. -- two separate issues:
sousas per se and silver sousas. As a teacher, you know that having the
system own the sousas is probably the only way you'll have players. Since
the school is buying them, they're in a position to match them, and they
that ends up being silver or fiberglass.
(fixing potential misinterpretation of "cheapest quality horns."
--
John Miller
They also serve who only stand and wait.
-John Milton
Dr. Trumpet
> Dr. Trumpet wrote:
> > In article <bh65bg$93d$1...@n4vu.com>, John Miller <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> Finally, if there is a HS situation in which silver trumpets are required
> >> (hey, it happens, like it or not), I really don't know which I dislike
> >> more, having tax dollars spent for such a thing, or making the parents
> >> pay.
> >
> > Why would you dislike this more than buying 8 sousas all in silver?
>
> Never say I did, but let me think about it...O.K. -- two separate issues:
> sousas per se and silver sousas. As a teacher, you know that having the
> system own the sousas is probably the only way you'll have players. Since
> the school is buying them, they're in a position to match them, and they
> arguably ought to be the cheapest quality horns they can get, whether that
> ends up being silver or fiberglass.
>
Actually in that situation, in which we found ourself in 1996, we went
with silver King sousies as they had a better tone and were more durable
(to our estimation) than the fiberglass ones. The horns are now 8 years
old, and all work, all are pretty dent free, and all sound good on the
field (or did when I last saw them). However, other schools are not
always in the position we were in to have a $25,000 capital fund
appropriation.
> > I know of a couple schools which require silver horns for marching band.
> > They provide them all. Kids play silver trumpets that belong to the
> > school. Rental is $30 for the fall, and waived if a kid can't afford it.
> >
> > I was planning on buying up about 20 good used Ambassador cornets,
> > fixing them up and having someone silver plate them, and keeping them
> > for my program. Thankfully, I gave up teaching in the school district
> > after 14 years and feel much better for it.
>
> That was an extremely good intention of yours, and your departure is the
> school system's loss. Glad you feel better; sorry you had to leave to
> achieve it. I was only able to last a year before setting my sights on
> college teaching. As it turned out, other opportunities intervened, and I
> spent the next 30 years in corporate America.
It wasn't the kids or parents (for the most part). Living through four
assistants in four years, no middle school support and a change to block
scheduling does things to a person that you would not ever imagine. Too
many sleepless night, enrollment hassles, good kids being made to make
choices they shouldn't have to make. Getting out was a savior to my
sanity. Getting back in is a constant situation-at least 10 offers a
year, but I have no interest.
Teaching privately, arranging and writing, and playing for a living are
really less stressful than teaching in school. And, frankly, more
profitable.
Al
William Graham
Yeah....I figgured cheap spray paint would be easy to remove, and it would
be kind of a slap in the directors face......But the kid has to live with
the guy for 4 years, so it's probably not a good idea......
Robert DeSavage
Does everything have to be a competition? Can't something exist just
to be fun? My high school band couldn't hold a candle to most other
bands, so competition was out of the question. Nevertheless, we
developed spirit and close friendships and had good times. To this
day, some 45 years after the fact, many of us remain very close
despite our scattered geographical locations. It's unfortunate but
true that many of these leaders, be it they lead a marching band or
coach sports teams, are using the organizations to flaunt their lust
for authority. Listening to some of them, they sound and act like
Marine DI wannabes who otherwise wouldn't have the balls to be a Boy
Scout never mind being a Marine. Hence this attitude spreads to the
parents who can't hold their tongues or keep their hands to themselves
when attending various activities. Believe it or not, there's plenty
of everything for all without having to roll over others with a steam
roller to obtain it. The kids are the real victims because they're
being used as pawns to satisfy the unwarranted ego of their 'leaders'.
Not all are like that, but there are more than enough that are. I'm
not trying to be a killjoy here. I'm merely venting the BS shoved down
my throat and otherwise accumulated throughout my many years of life
experience. While I might not always express myself in an articulate
manner, I'm able to get my point across. Hopefully there are others
who share my viewpoint enough to help keep things from getting
completely out of control.
BOB
John Miller
> Does everything have to be a competition? Can't something exist just
> to be fun?
Well, we *could* play baseball without keeping score, but I don't think it'd
catch on. :-)
--
John "wonder who's gonna draw the short straw for first chair tonight?"
Miller
To err is human, to forgive unusual.
Robert DeSavage
wrote:
>Robert DeSavage wrote:
>> Does everything have to be a competition? Can't something exist just
>> to be fun?
>
>Well, we *could* play baseball without keeping score, but I don't think it'd
>catch on. :-)
Maybe so. Before I got old, I used to play golf. Believe it or not,
many times I didn't use my scorecard. It really didn't matter because
I knew a good shot from a bad shot and a good hole from a bad hole.
More importantly is that I couldn't add that high. While keeping score
is part of any game, my point is win, lose, or draw - does it really
matter? Maybe to many, but not to me.
Dr. Trumpet
Robert DeSavage <alle...@comcast.net//nospam> wrote:
> Does everything have to be a competition?
No, it doesn't. When I taught, fall marching band was the competitive
segment of the year. The rest was not. We did take the band to
organization festival, but that is rating only. And, you play music to
receive a rating on your performance, not in comparison to others.
> Can't something exist just
> to be fun?
Oh, we had fun! King's Island, Florida trips, cookouts, trips to
different places to perform. Jazz band always went to a number of jazz
festivals.
> My high school band couldn't hold a candle to most other
> bands, so competition was out of the question. Nevertheless, we
> developed spirit and close friendships and had good times.
And, it happens with the competitive bands too. Band is band. Good is
good. Band is good.
> To this
> day, some 45 years after the fact, many of us remain very close
> despite our scattered geographical locations. It's unfortunate but
> true that many of these leaders, be it they lead a marching band or
> coach sports teams, are using the organizations to flaunt their lust
> for authority.
That wasn't ever my intent. I wanted the best result for the kids. If
they were 7th, but did their best, that was fine. Working at a goal
together builds this kind of friendship.
> Listening to some of them, they sound and act like
> Marine DI wannabes who otherwise wouldn't have the balls to be a Boy
> Scout never mind being a Marine. Hence this attitude spreads to the
> parents who can't hold their tongues or keep their hands to themselves
> when attending various activities. Believe it or not, there's plenty
> of everything for all without having to roll over others with a steam
> roller to obtain it. The kids are the real victims because they're
> being used as pawns to satisfy the unwarranted ego of their 'leaders'.
In some instances, the above is absolutely correct.
> Not all are like that, but there are more than enough that are. I'm
> not trying to be a killjoy here. I'm merely venting the BS shoved down
> my throat and otherwise accumulated throughout my many years of life
> experience. While I might not always express myself in an articulate
> manner, I'm able to get my point across. Hopefully there are others
> who share my viewpoint enough to help keep things from getting
> completely out of control.
I try every time I judge to remind directors that the activity is about
the kids, not about them. Many agree. Many do not. The kids lose in
this instance.
AL
(who agrees with much of what you write!)
>
> BOB
Robert DeSavage
<dr_trpt-...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Not all are like that, but there are more than enough that are. I'm
>> not trying to be a killjoy here. I'm merely venting the BS shoved down
>> my throat and otherwise accumulated throughout my many years of life
>> experience. While I might not always express myself in an articulate
>> manner, I'm able to get my point across. Hopefully there are others
>> who share my viewpoint enough to help keep things from getting
>> completely out of control.
>
>I try every time I judge to remind directors that the activity is about
>the kids, not about them. Many agree. Many do not. The kids lose in
>this instance.
>
>
>AL
>
>(who agrees with much of what you write!)
Thankfully, times have changed where the parents are more involved.
Back in my days, we didn't have Band Parents organizations or the
like. The band director was totally on his own and in most cases was
at best treated as an afterthought that was tossed the crumbs. I was
out of line to imply even in the slightest way that all band directors
are self serving. Even those that are jumping thru hoops, creating the
illusion of being self serving are doing it because they have to. Band
parents organizations are necessary because they help keep things in
perspective and help give the band director or music director the
needed clout to get things done that would be next to impossible if
possible at all to do. Even though my kids are grown and gone, I still
keep somewhat active with my town's Band Parents Organization.
Unfortunately, music programs are secondary to athletics which get the
most attention and support both 'officially' and by private concerns.
This was the case when I was a student where we had to stand in front
of stores holding collection cans in order to get what was usually
crappy looking uniforms bought from Army surplus stores. Yet each
year, the school budget would allow the purchase of new uniforms each
year for the jockstrappers. Things turned around a bit when the
students now turned parents of students remained pissed off and formed
our town's band parents organization. While there's a long way to go,
it's all going forward.
BOB
Doc
> I try every time I judge to remind directors that the activity is about
> the kids, not about them. Many agree. Many do not. The kids lose in
> this instance.
The initial issue of the silver trumpets might be the result of what I
perceive as the mindset of some band directors (maybe justifiably so?)
that showiness in public is part of job preservation. Since the
outside public doesn't see what they do day in and day out, some of
the ignorant masses (including school administration?) might view a
flashy band as a "good" band.
I knew a middle school band director who always had a band program
that was way too big. (80-100+ per period, depending on the class as I
recall) Every day was more like riot control than band practice. He
made a point of periodically parading these kids in front of the
school (ergo the front office). Well, they were certainly loud. I'm
sure his thinking was if the kids were regularly seen playing
something, they'll make the assumption this guy must be a good band
director.
Quizzing a few of the kids when I subbed for this director revealed
that they had essentially been taught which buttons to push, might not
even know the names of the notes they were playing, almost none knew
even a handful of scales, or even really understood what a scale is.
I.e., next to no "music education" took place. These kids seemed to
serve the function of so many trained seals whose primary mission was
to keep this guy in a job. And since there were so many of them , he
could afford the attrition when some would quit or get tossed out for
extremely unruly behavior. This school was the main feeder for the
local high school and this is what the high school band director had
to work with when they arrived there.
As a side note, this guy once told me if he himself never played again
it would be fine, he hated playing.
I know it doesn't have to be this way because I've seen other middle
school programs that were solid. Even one that had a stage band that
sounded better than some high school stage bands I've heard. And I
don't think he required silver trumpets.... ;-)