Out of Tune Flugel
Doug Hardie
tune. It is obnoxiously flat across the entire spectrum. With the
tuning adaptor all the way in it is still about 30 cents flat on most
notes. Just enough flat to make the section sound wierd. It doesn't
look like there is any easy modification to help. Its a Jupiter model
with KHS Musica (on middle valve), JFH 746 (on lead pipe), and looks
like a serial number of 007026. Any ideas on what he can do to bring it
up?
Can't Spam Me
Is he using a flugel mouthpiece?
"Doug Hardie" <bc...@lafn.org> wrote in message
news:bc979-86DE6D....@zook.lafn.org...
Doug Hardie
"Can't Spam Me" <nobody...@nospamm.com> wrote:
> Might seem like a dumb answer but just to be sure.........................
> Is he using a flugel mouthpiece?
Yes. Bach 7C I believe.
Julia deSilva
though it sounded great until I tried its playing in tune with my piano.
Even with the slide fully in it was flat. In fact it was difficult to play
in tune at all.
Took it back to the shop and a couple of guys in the shop played it in tune.
Now, I've been playing trumpet for 25 years all of it on the same
instrument. So who was at fault, me or the instrument?
JDS
Richie Bee
won't get one these days... (having to pay for one is another reason).
I put a lot of it down to being used to playing on a much shallower
mouthpiece and not having the strength in my embouchure to support a much
deeper mouthpiece... my own failing. Of course that's just my own theory
that could be way off!
Last time I tried was over ten years ago. I'm a much better player now, and
might be able to handle it. Don't have the money to give it a try though.
Rich
--
www.richiebee.ca
"Julia deSilva" <j...@nospantrumpetweb.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LVQac.5607$Id....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
CalicchioMan
Dr. Trumpet
Doug Hardie <bc...@lafn.org> wrote:
The shank size of the flugelhorn mouthpiece you are using may be
inappropriate for the instrument, causing all sorts of anomolous
problems with tuning, tone and projection of sound. Is there any way to
test the instrument with the mouthpiece that came with it? Have others
had a similar result when trialing the flugelhorn? These are important
things to consider. If the problem exists with all who play the
instrument, it may be the player. If the proper mouthpiece shank
corrects the problem, the concern is most likely due to the ill-fitting
shank. If the problem exists only for you and the shank is properly fit,
it may require that you consider a shallower flugelhorn mouthpiece,
especially if you are one who is used to small, shallow trumpet
mouthpieces. Sometimes, the depth of a standard flugelhorn mouthpiece
can be difficult for some to adjust to, and causes serious intonation
problems. I believe that any of a number of fine custom mouthpiece
makers can construct a 7C rim on to a shallower cup.
Hopefully the above will give you some ideas as to where to proceed.
Best wishes,
Al
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Dr. Trumpet
"Dr. Trumpet" <dr_trpt-...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If the problem exists with all who play the
> instrument, it may be the player.
Let me fix this. If the problem......., it may NOT be the player.
Sorry for the rush to post.
AL
Tom Dumas
Three things that might help: first, is the mouthpiece the
appropriate one for the mouthiece receiver in terms of correct
insertion? Possibly another shorter receiver might help. (I
obtained a shorter receiver for my Kanstul because of the same
problem). Also, it might be possible to cut the lead pipe a bit. I
hope this is somewhat helpful.
Linda Fox
<j...@nospantrumpetweb.co.uk> wrote:
>I once took a flugel on trial from a shop, can't remember what make. I
>though it sounded great until I tried its playing in tune with my piano.
>Even with the slide fully in it was flat. In fact it was difficult to play
>in tune at all.
>
>Took it back to the shop and a couple of guys in the shop played it in tune.
>
>Now, I've been playing trumpet for 25 years all of it on the same
>instrument. So who was at fault, me or the instrument?
Have you ruled out the possibility that it was your piano?
Linda ff
Doug Hardie
tgd...@comcast.net (Tom Dumas) wrote:
> Three things that might help: first, is the mouthpiece the
> appropriate one for the mouthiece receiver in terms of correct
> insertion? Possibly another shorter receiver might help. (I
> obtained a shorter receiver for my Kanstul because of the same
> problem). Also, it might be possible to cut the lead pipe a bit. I
> hope this is somewhat helpful.
In response to the numerous comments. The instrument is flat when I
play it also. I am using a Bach 1C. From adjusting my flugel to match
his and then back in tune we need to shorten by almost 1/2 in. There is
not that much room from the front of the receiver to the first brace.
It looks like shortening that much will require cutting after the
valves. I don't think he has any other mouthpieces available. I used
to but have no idea who I loaned them to anymore. The horn has a great
tone and he is definitely not overblowing it (or trumpet either). I
have been working with him for many months to get a louder sound. We
have to mic him for every gig or no one can hear him. Lately he has
been improving in volume but it makes no difference on the flugel
intonation. This is at least a 3rd hand horn so we have no idea what
might have come with it.
William Graham
If it's flat, you might try removing the leadpipe altogether. this will
probably necessitate modifying the mouthpiece shank to keep it from rattling
around in the leadpipe receiver, but it's still a possible solution.......
Bernt
> If it's flat, you might try removing the leadpipe altogether. this will
> probably necessitate modifying the mouthpiece shank to keep it from
rattling
> around in the leadpipe receiver, but it's still a possible solution.......
>
>
With my previous flugel, a Yamaha 631, I had initial intonation problems
(the horn was slightly flat even with the leadpipe all the way in, and deep
C was very flat, so I had to lip a lot to play in tune). Then I switched
mouthpieces form a Bach 5CFL to a Yamaha 14F4, which has a 5 mm shorter
shank. This solved the tuning problems, except for the deep C, which I
believe is a fault in several of the Yamaha horns. I now play a Getzen
Eterna 4-valve and play in tune with both mouthpieces.
My advice is that you start with establishing what sort of mouthpiece that
originally went with the Jupiter flugel, and try to match that in terms of
length and diameter of the shank.
JoeGuy
chuck levin's and hated it. couldn't get a good sound. lately i've played it
exclusively; and i find i like it much better. sounding a lot better. you
have to remember; it's not a trumpet- and has different charecteristics.
also, i've wondered, one should definately not use a trumpet mouthpiece on a
fluegelhorn? i tried that for awhile, but, i returned to the flugel piece.
"Linda Fox" <lind...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ieno60ppoqegcvd3s...@4ax.com...
Tommy T.
"JoeGuy" <johnsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote :
> also, i've wondered, one should definately not use a trumpet mouthpiece on
a
> fluegelhorn? >
I can say absolutely and with complete confidence "It depends."
Just as with a cornet, for the maximum difference between it and a trumpet,
use a mouthpiece that is as different from your trumpet piece as possible.
The current flugel sound preferred in American jazz requires the use of a
deep flugelhorn mouthpiece. But, Miles played flugel with a trumpet
mouthpiece -- the sound of his Martin flugel was very like that of his
Martin trumpet although the subtle differences in how it moved between
notes, especially between wider intervals is still there. (The best Miles
on flugel may be on the Miles Ahead album -- the first of the Davis/Gil
Evans collaborations. His adagio from the Concierto de Aranjez on the
Sketches of Spain album features him switching between trumpet and
flugelhorn -- it takes a trumpet player's ear to hear the difference.)
Tommy T.
William Graham
"JoeGuy" <johnsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9Bcbc.2830$OU3....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> samae here. i played same trumpet for 30yrs, and i bought a bach 200 at
> chuck levin's and hated it. couldn't get a good sound. lately i've played
it
> exclusively; and i find i like it much better. sounding a lot better. you
> have to remember; it's not a trumpet- and has different charecteristics.
> also, i've wondered, one should definately not use a trumpet mouthpiece on
a
> fluegelhorn? i tried that for awhile, but, i returned to the flugel piece.
>
think that it would cause you to play flatter yet, but what do I know?...My
Yamaha 635 ST seems to be in tune with the mouthpiece receiver pulled about
2 inches out. I would think that they would test for proper tuning range,
especially on a pro horn, before it left the factory. If others play it and
have the same problem, then perhaps you should return it to the factory for
reworking. If you are the only one with the problem, then perhaps you need
some sort of embouchure adjustment, but I can't think of what would cause
such a thing......