Stuck Slide on purpose
Fog1horn
stick on purpose.
I have a water key and my primary third slide works mint.
It was a pain because it slides out by it's self under pressure.
I tried different greases to make it sticky with no luck. For me it's just
another slide to clean and grease and readjust during a passage :-(
Q. What's the purpose of the secondary slide? For full range tuning?
SKEW999
if u have a spit valve, then thr only purpose would be for the fast oiling of
the 3rd valve. you could pull out the little end slide, put a few drops of
oil down there, and then put the slide back in...
you might want to conisider getting a new end slide put it, giardinelli and
dillon sell these fr about $$56.00 . it might be worth it if it is giving u
that many problems...or just get the existing end slide built up with a
compound at your music store
later
joe
Phone #for dillon music, they can order u the end slide and give u teh exact
price:
732-634-3399
bac...@my-deja.com
> Q. What's the purpose of the secondary slide? For full range tuning?
I wondered this too, when I got my Bach a year ago. It must be
significant that the length of the inner slide is exactly that of the
first valve slide (one whole step!). So, I pondered about this, and
asked many.
The only good answer I could come up with is that you can play a low F
natural (1+2+3) with the third slide extended, and also 1 & 3 slides out
a bit, without lipping anything; so it's not a pedal tone, and it's on
the horn. With the slide extended, you can even use new alternate
fingerings (2+3 for D and low G; 1+2+3 for low F) and play a 2 octave F
major scale starting on the low F, and it sounds great.
Who knows? I doubt a inner slide like that is simply for letting the
water out- that seems kind of mickey-mouse to me. It must be there for
a significant reason. Or maybe not. Who knows?
Just my comments-
Scott
(please pardon my run-on sentences!)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
SiegTrmpt
>water out- that seems kind of mickey-mouse to me. It must be there for
>a significant reason. Or maybe not. Who knows?
The 3rd slide extension is good for the low f in Ein Heldenleben but was also
for a change to "A" trumpet as was done often when the Bach trumpet was first
designed. I don't think it was for a spit valve. I use the second valve to
release water. Bill
David Rice
HEY Man! Don't be flaming the Mouse - I'm going to Disney World next month.
Dave
jott...@my-deja.com
hassling the end slide of the 3rd valve slide on my Bach for 9 years
from plain ignorance other than using it for dumping condensation.
Replaced the third slide a year ago with one that had a water key on
the end slide. Dumps water very well, but the end slide still eases
out during extended playing despite using viscous lubricants. Also used
vinyl bumpers on the main third slide to reduce impact effects as well
as noise Thought of soldering it in, but the idea that extending it
would enable pedal F is interesting.
Praying hasn't helped om this minor annoyance either! Would appreciate
constructive opinions!
Jack - Massachusetts
In article <8uhofv$6o8$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>,
johnkool
When I ordered my Bach in 1970 or so the 3rd valve water key was a special
order, and the local dealer called up to be sure I wanted it, because Bach
did not recommend it.
Something about the water key creating turbulence at a node site or
something.
The regular slide could not be easily removed to empty water/ spit because
fo the stop rod and nuts.
>> Q. What's the purpose of the secondary slide? For full range tuning?
Jim Donaldson
>Vincent Bach did not like water keys on the third valve slide...
>...Something about the water key creating turbulence at a node
>site or something....
Well, here is a slightly different version. This was qouted and posted a couple
of years ago by Bob Pucci, a noted collector of trumpets and other brass
instruments, from some correspondence he received, the source of which I have
no idea (but love it nonetheless). If Pucci thought it was reliable enough to
post, I'll believe him.
<< My experiences with Mr. Vincent Bach in the late forties was less than
pleasant. His trumpet was full price no discounts $194.00 (1946) Every other
pro trumpet were much less .A lot of money when my mustering out pay from the
military service was 200.00 and average wages were 35.00. He took my trumpet to
the Bronx factory several times before the valve problem was resolved. His
solution was to create leaky pistons. Mr Bach was foremost a business man and
secondly a trpt player. His valve sections were not manufactured in his plant,
they came the Blessing co an a man named Olmondinger who later manufactured a
trpt under his name OLMOND. Every body asks why the Bach trumpet dos not have a
3rd slide water key. The answer was and is still true today. He saved money.
Mr.Bach's integrity was less than sterling. The famous story and I quote from a
reliable source. He had a trumpet on display with a water hose connected to the
mouth piece receiver and boasted that his pistons were so tight that when the
water was turned on not a drop was evident from any of the slides. Sure why
not! the slides were soldered shut. >>
Remaining, of course,
The Schilke Loyalist
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke
Jim Donaldson
Denver Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
Matt Carey
>
> That's an entertaining quotation, but I'm not sure about the logic. It
> seems to me that the work required to add the "extra" pull-out slide
> would be more costly that adding the water key. Any instrument makers
> care to comment?
>
> Tom
I thought this too at first. If there is a waterkey, they still make
essentially the same part, then solder it in, then add the waterkey.
I find it interesting that there is no provision of either sort for my old
bach C trumpet. I have to pull the entire slide out. (actually, there
was no provision made for pulling the slide...I had to have a repair tech
realign the tubes so I could easily pull the 3rd slide.
Of course, when Jim quotes the email he got that states how Bach used
to charge more than others, he can't be thinking that that is an example
of Bach being a bad person. Last I saw, Schilke horns were significantly
more than Bachs! (note tongue in cheek).
--
Matt Carey
chicag...@my-deja.com
fog1...@aol.com (Fog1horn) wrote:
> I had my third slide with in a slide (secondary) slightly flaired so
it would
> stick on purpose.
> I have a water key and my primary third slide works mint.
> It was a pain because it slides out by it's self under pressure.
> I tried different greases to make it sticky with no luck. For me it's
just
> another slide to clean and grease and readjust during a passage :-(
>
good shop can expand the tubing in a matter of seconds for a tighter
fit. It is a very minimal charge and well worth it.Good luck!
Tom Murphy
seems to me that the work required to add the "extra" pull-out slide
would be more costly that adding the water key. Any instrument makers
care to comment?
Tom
In article <20001110180112...@ng-fj1.aol.com>,
br...@hotmail.com
>Anyone have a definitive answer on the original question.
I found that simply bending my the slides of the extension a little bit
outwards has kept it from moving for the past 10 years, without revisiting
the issue.
Jim Donaldson
>Of course, when Jim quotes the email he got that states how
>Bach used to charge more than others, he can't be thinking that
>that is an example of Bach being a bad person. Last I saw,
>Schilke horns were significantly more than Bachs!
Ahem. Significant?
New Bach trumpets, at Giardinelli, in silverplate with that ugly new brown
canvas case and an entirely superfluous 7C, cost $1310. They throw in the
interior solder globs, uneven lacquer or plating, and the misaligned valves and
slides for free.
Schilke trumpets, at Washington Music Center, in silverplate, cost $1495,
supply your own case and mouthpiece. Only $185 to go from the frustration of
Bach to the perfection of Schilke? Nobody who is interested in a Schilke should
be scared away by the price.
And you can get your own very cool Schilke t-shirts and ball caps from me,
delivered by your postman to your very door. Try to get that service out of
Bach.
Reciprocating the tongue in cheek business, I remain, not surprisingly,
Matt Carey
> New Bach trumpets, at Giardinelli, in silverplate with that ugly new brown
> canvas case and an entirely superfluous 7C, cost $1310. They throw in the
> interior solder globs, uneven lacquer or plating, and the misaligned valves and
> slides for free.
>
> Schilke trumpets, at Washington Music Center, in silverplate, cost $1495,
> supply your own case and mouthpiece. Only $185 to go from the frustration of
> Bach to the perfection of Schilke? Nobody who is interested in a Schilke should
> be scared away by the price.
>
> And you can get your own very cool Schilke t-shirts and ball caps from me,
> delivered by your postman to your very door. Try to get that service out of
> Bach.
(tongue now firmly removed from cheek)
Yup,
and if I were to buy a new trumpet, it would be a Schilke! Damn fine horns,
great sound and damned well built.
--
Matt Carey
Michael Manthey
repair man & have him look at it ...or send it to the factory. If they
can't figure it out...
Michael Manthey
As far as I'm concerned every trumpet should have AMADO water keys on
the main & third valve tuning slides. These should not caues any
disturbaance of nodel patterns. As a matter of fact the litttle holes in
the slides with lever type "spit valves" may very well cause tubulence
where you don't want it . I've have AMADO water kwys put on every
trumpet I've had & they DO maka a difference.
Fog1horn
>repair man & have him look at it ...or send it to the factory. If they
>can't figure it out...
>
>
The deed is done, I had the secondary slide flaired slightly and now its
"permanent".
Thanks for the reply's
Chris