Trumpet Cleaning
Ryan Williams
#37 Bell), and I have fallen in love with it. I have a couple of cleaning
questions that I would like to ask everybody:
1. For some reason, there appears to be dirt or something where the end of
the bell and the rim of the bell meet. It looks like dirt is caught in the
little groove there. Anybody know what I'm talking about? What's the
safest way to clean this?
2. Is it OK to use Brass cleaner (Brass-O) to get the tarnish off of the
tuning slides?
3. The snake I use to clean the tubing of the trumpet does not have the
vinyl cover...instead, it is just like a flexible metal rod...will this
damage anything?
4. Is there anything I should do differently when cleaning my silver
trumpet as opposed to my lacquer trumpet?
Any responses appreciated. Thanks
Ryan Williams (rwi...@hotmail.com)
David Miller
You asked:
"1. For some reason, there appears to be dirt or something where the end
of the bell and the rim of the bell meet. It looks like dirt is caught
in the little groove there. Anybody know what I'm talking about? What's
the safest way to clean this?"
This very well could be residual buffing compound. This often bleeds
from the bell rim wire when the horn is de-greased prior to finishing.
You may want to try to gently rub it off (in a small motion) with a soft
rag. Be aware that if it is buffing "dirt" that it is abrasive- hence
the recommendation to make your cleaning area small and rubbing, gentle.
You may want to first try some rubbing alcohol on the tip end of a
Q-tip. That should get it.
"2. Is it OK to use Brass cleaner (Brass-O) to get the tarnish off of
the tuning slides?"
Yes, but I wouldn't do it. Let your slides wear naturally. They will
be dis-colored, naturally, as a condition of raw brass. Brasso is an
abrasive. Regardless how careful you are, some amount of the Brasso
will get on the silver, and I wouldn't want to risk damge to the thin
silver plating by having to rub dried Brasso off of the finish.
"3. The snake I use to clean the tubing of the trumpet does not have the
vinyl cover...instead, it is just like a flexible metal rod...will this
damage anything?"
Dont quite understand you here, but if you are meaning that the very end
of the flexible snake is not coated, and has metal exposed, YES it can
and will cause damage to the interior of your horn if caution is not
practised. This happens mostly when people allow the tip end to reach
inside of the valve casings. The tip end, if not plastic coated, will
easily scratch the casings. I surely wouldn't think it is time for you
to even think about cleaning your horn with a snake if you just got the
horn. I believe knowing how to properly take care of a horn (and it's
good to see you asking) is a good thing to know, but at the same time, I
feel some types of cleaning should be left to the repair tech.
"4. Is there anything I should do differently when cleaning my silver
trumpet as opposed to my lacquer trumpet?"
Yes. First, never use Brasso on either, and in the case of the
lacquered horn, the Brasso will remove the lacquer.
There are many silver cleaning preparations on the market- from 3M
Tarnishield (sp?), Hagerty's to Silvo. I think what is important to
know is that the best way to take care of silver plating is to do as
little abrasive cleaning as possible. If you are lucky to have hands
that don't eat through silver plating, count yourself fortunate, and
maybe just use a very soft chamois to wipe off the sweat after each
session of playing.
The 3M product has a tarnish shield which helps fight off tarnish.
Hagerty's and Silvo clean pretty well. They are very mild abrasives,
however. The dried dust of the Silvo has cleaning properties AND
abrasive properties.
There are also silver polishing clothes that do pretty well too. Still,
I kind of think of silver polishing like this- most every time a silver
polish is used, some amount of silver plating is removed.
Some people have good luck using hand guards installed on the valve
cluster. These can be both good and bad, depending on your approach.
Guards can lock in moisture and should be removed whenever possible to
allow moisture to dry. They can also be mildy abrasive to the plating.
As for the interior cleaning of the horn, both lacquered and silver
horns clean up using the same method (which would be a huge post in
itself. I'll let Jim Donaldson post that one :-)).
Hope that helps!
Dave M
(remove REMOVE to reply)
Padraic Brown
: Yes. First, never use Brasso on either, and in the case of the
: lacquered horn, the Brasso will remove the lacquer.
Are you sure about this? I have an old horn I'd like to get the brass
lacquer off of (much of it's already gone, but what's left is simply
horrid looking) and haven't had any luck with _anything_ I've tried.
Even though the Brasso can said that lacquer would be removed, it wasn't.
Do you have any idea what a repair shop would use? Apart from that I've
tried various other chemicals to no avail. The only thing that worked was
steel wool, and for obvious reasons I wouldn't really want to go over the
whole horn and scratch it up that way.
Padraic.
: Dave M
JFDonaldsn
>silver horns clean up using the same method (which would be a
>huge post in itself. I'll let Jim Donaldson post that one :-)).
You rang?
This is posted with permission of MusiChem, the makers of Pro Oil valve oil and
can be located at http://www.musichem.com/articles/pst_care.htm.
Jim Donaldson
Denver, Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
------------------------------
The Care of Piston Valve Brass Instruments
Introduction
Brass musical instruments are continually subjected to the aerosols in the
musician's breath. Over time this debris will build up inside the instrument
until its performance is degraded. Valve action in particular is drastically
effected when those aerosols attach themselves to the piston and valve casing.
Human saliva is also damaging to these instruments. The salts and enzymes
present in saliva promote Monel valve staining, attack internal solder joints,
and cause dezinicification (red rot) in the crooks of the slides. On the
outside of the instruments, sweat from the hands also causes dezinicification.
Therefore, to ensure that the instrument performs properly and to retard
corrosion, it is necessary to not only clean it regularly, but in an effective
way. The following method of maintenance will ensure that the instrument can
perform at its utmost. Although there are many techniques in use, this method
is based on soapy water, a little effort, and a lot of common sense.
Cleaning Equipment
To clean inside the instrument you should use a quality snake which has a
protective coating covering its length. The snakes' bristles should be
moderately stiff, but the ends should not have exposed metal tips. Wire brushes
may get the task done quickly, but the added risk of scratching the instrument
does not justify their use. The concern is that their routine use might scratch
the instrument's interior enough to provide a better surface for mold to anchor
between washings. Moreover, a weakened wall on an old instrument can be easily
perforated. We therefore prefer to rely on the proven power of soapy water to
loosen the debris followed by a thorough, but gentle, brushing to remove the
debris. To clean the valve casings you should use a valve casing brush that is
soft enough to avoid marring the casing wall. Do not use scouring pads, metal
brushes or any abrasives. The mouthpiece is cleaned with a mouthpiece brush,
but a cotton or foam swab works well inside the cup.
As for the soap, Lemon Joy and Palmolive liquid dish soap work well. DO NOT use
toothpaste, abrasive soaps, Brasso, Tarnex, chemicals or any soaps that make
the water turn milky. Do not use soaps that leave behind an odor, or claim to
contain a skin softening lotion. Cleaners such as Fantastic, Pinesol, and Mr.
Clean are powerful cleaners, but they have solvents that might soften and blush
some lacquer finishes. Some are also alkaline enough to increase any red rot
already forming on the instrument.
Procedure
Begin by removing all of the slides. Use soft paper toweling to remove all
traces of tuning slide grease from the slides and the instrument. A little
grease goes a long way in slowing down your valves, and this step will keep
grease from transferring to the valves and casing during cleaning. Silicone
based slide grease is uniquely tough to remove. If you have a silicone based
slide grease on your slides, remove it with a paper towel saturated in mineral
spirits. Place the slides somewhere safe for until the soapy water is ready.
The valves are also best cleaned separately. First, soak them in individual
plastic cups containing enough lukewarm soapy water to just cover the top of
the piston, but not the felts. Use your snake to gently clean the ports of each
piston, and a soft soapy wash cloth to clean the outside of each piston. Again,
let the soaking do most of the cleaning.
The most effective technique for cleaning the rest of the instrument is to work
in a bathtub or large basin. Obviously do not use an automatic dishwasher; it
will not clean the instrument interior and it will permanently damage your
instrument. Fill the tub with lukewarm water (not hot) and mix in a healthy
amount (about 10 mL) of the liquid dish soap.
Place a large cloth towel in the bottom of your tub or basin to help prevent
scratching the instrument during cleaning. Put the disassembled instrument,
slides and mouthpiece (but not the valves) onto the towel in the bathtub and
let the parts soak for about 30 minutes to loosen any debris. For larger
instruments which may not fit completely under the water, pour soapy water down
the bell. Use a soft cloth to wash the external parts of the instrument. Dip
the snake's brush in some dish soap and gently run the snake inside every tube
and slide. Do not try to force the snake all the way around the curves of the
small slides.
Remove the valve caps on the bottom of the valve casing. Use your soft valve
casing brush to GENTLY brush out the valve casing. Remember, this is a delicate
part of your instrument, so be gentle. Use the same technique with the
mouthpiece, but use a mouthpiece brush. If the instrument is exceptionally
dirty, let it soak longer. Again, do not use abrasives, scouring pads or metal
brushes; the soapy water will work if you are patient. Although in extreme
cases some dilute acid will remove dried layers of debris, it is far better to
let an experienced repair shop perform any acid treatment.
After you are satisfied that everything is clean, rinse all the parts well with
lukewarm water until every trace of soap is gone. To prevent spotting, the
outside of the instrument can be wiped dry. The external finish will scratch
easily, so use the softest cloth you can find. A very worn, but clean, cotton
Tee-shirt or old cotton pajamas work well for this. Blow out any water hanging
up in the tubing, and lay the instrument out to dry overnight. It is very
important that the pistons, the valve casings, and the ends of the slides be
bone-dry before you begin to reassemble the instrument. Oil and grease work far
better and last longer if applied to perfectly dry surfaces. Remember oil and
water do not mix.
Begin reassembling your instrument by rubbing a thin bead of slide grease on
the tips of the male ends of each tuning slide. By applying grease in this way
any excess grease will be pushed out of the instrument instead of into the
instrument where it can eventually effect valve action. Use a very light grease
on the trigger slides, and a very heavy grease on the main tuning slide. Be
sure to wipe any excess grease off the exterior surfaces of the instrument.
After all of the slides have been assembled, the valves need to be properly
prepared. It is absolutely necessary to liberally coat BOTH the valve and the
valve casing surfaces with valve oil (ten drops on each valve and ten drops on
each casing) so that excess oil will transfer to the internal solder joints. In
doing so it will protect them against dezinicification (red discoloration) and
corrosion (blue-green discoloration) which are caused by exposing the naked
metal to saliva. Use your fingers to forcefully rub the oil onto the entire
piston surface. This rubbing action guarantees complete coverage of the valve,
and helps protect Monel valves against spotting. Some musicians blow oil
through the instrument. This is a good idea to protect the instrument interior,
but does not replace proper oiling of the piston and valve casing as we
described.
Finally, let us say that we know that this process might sound long and
arduous, but after the first time, it will be fast and easy. The rewards,
however, will last a long time.
http://www.musichem.com/articles/pst_care.htm
Copyright © 1996 MusiChem, Incorporated
Posted with permission
David Miller
"Even though the Brasso can said that lacquer would be removed, it
wasn't. Do you have any idea what a repair shop would use? Apart from
that I've tried various other chemicals to no avail." <snip>
Good question, Padraic. I guess I should have said, _over time_, Brasso
will remove lacquer. There is a difference there. :-)
Depending on the type of lacquer used, most times a simple paint remover
can be used. What I use is Stripz-Em, available at the hardware store
(True Value, I think). There are other brands that work the same way-
you apply a thick coat of this slimey stuff, let it set (use plenty of
ventilation), then loosen it up with a stiff brush, like a tooth brush
(not wire brush). Watch breathing the stuff, and you should protect
your skin, face, and eyes.
Baked-on epoxy lacquer is the hardest to remove. There are strippers
available to do it, but they are mostly available through repair parts
companies, like Allied or Ferrees.
Last time I spoke to the folks at Anderson's (THE industry's silver
plating company), they said they no longer offered lacquer stripping due
to the health concerns of their employees.
I would stick to using the brush-on paint remover.
Christie S. Cortez
Silver Polish
Ryan Williams wrote in message <36446...@mithril.niia.net>...
>I recently purchased a new Bach Stradivarius Silver-Plated trumpet (ML
Bore,
>#37 Bell), and I have fallen in love with it. I have a couple of cleaning
>questions that I would like to ask everybody:
>
>1. For some reason, there appears to be dirt or something where the end of
>the bell and the rim of the bell meet. It looks like dirt is caught in the
>little groove there. Anybody know what I'm talking about? What's the
>safest way to clean this?
>
>2. Is it OK to use Brass cleaner (Brass-O) to get the tarnish off of the
>tuning slides?
>
>3. The snake I use to clean the tubing of the trumpet does not have the
>vinyl cover...instead, it is just like a flexible metal rod...will this
>damage anything?
>
>4. Is there anything I should do differently when cleaning my silver
>trumpet as opposed to my lacquer trumpet?
>
Miranda Jackson
Padraic Brown wrote:
> David Miller (DavesTv...@webtv.net) wrote:
>
> : Yes. First, never use Brasso on either, and in the case of the
> : lacquered horn, the Brasso will remove the lacquer.
>
> Are you sure about this? I have an old horn I'd like to get the brass
> lacquer off of (much of it's already gone, but what's left is simply
> horrid looking) and haven't had any luck with _anything_ I've tried.
>
> Even though the Brasso can said that lacquer would be removed, it wasn't.
> Do you have any idea what a repair shop would use? Apart from that I've
> tried various other chemicals to no avail. The only thing that worked was
> steel wool, and for obvious reasons I wouldn't really want to go over the
> whole horn and scratch it up that way.
>
> Padraic.
>
> : Dave M
I don't know what repair shops use, probably something very corrosive, but I
found very hot tap water to be quite effective at removing the lacquer from a
French horn I was cleaning a few years ago. That wasn't what I intended to do,
but it looked much nicer after all the remaining patches of lacquer had fallen
off (it was a very old horn). There might be a reason not to use hot water,
but it didn't seem to cause any other damage.
Miranda Jackson
Miranda Jackson
part) and Brasso (on the slides) for 10 years, and I just found out that I was
removing the silver plating each time I did it. Actually, the slides move much more
freely than when I first got the horn, probably because I have been removing metal
from the slides also. Is Vaseline a good thing to use on the slides, with a
combination of that and valve oil on the 3rd slide? That is what I have been using.
I have used a leather valve guard and the metal has remained shiny and new-looking
underneath, even through 4 years of marching with the horn in all weather. Is there
also something that will protect the horn underneath the bell beside the valves
where the left hand touches it? I have a small but growing section of bare brass
where the oil from my hand has worn away the silver plating.
I will not polish my horn with Silvo any more, but does Tarnishield really not wear
away the metal, and can it be used on the slides as well? Not wiping the horn can
also be bad for the metal, because moisture and oil from the skin can also do
damage.
I have found that the higher humidity of where I live now causes the horn to
discolour more rapidly. I always put it in its case when I'm not playing it and
that helps, I guess because it reduces the amount of oxygen that can get to it and
react with the metal. I have also found that brushing my teeth every time before I
play reduces the amount of gunk that gets inside it, both because fewer food
particles get inside it and the toothpaste reduces the acid that eats away at the
brass (red rot). According to some people, this can cause dry mouth, but I haven't
had a problem with that.
Miranda Jackson
Philip Scoles
3M makes separate Tarnishield for silver and brass. The chemicals used in
each one are different, which means that regular silver Tarnishield will
not really work on your slides. When I bought silver Tarnishield, I
decided that it wasn't worth the extra expense for me at the time to buy a
whole bottle of brass Tarnishield on top of that just to have shiny
slides, but if you would like to keep the brass parts of your slides
shiny, it's probably the best way to go. As far as Tarnishield not eating
away the metal, I'm not sure. They do claim that it contains no
abrasives, but the cloth that I apply it with always gets black, which
usually means that some kind of metal is coming off. One nice thing about
Tarnishield is that it makes the job of periodically wiping the
fingerprints and skin oils off the horn much easier than it would be
otherwise.
Philip Scoles ... /|
Eastman School of Music )--|||=====< |
University of Rochester (___) \|
Rochester, NY
e-mail: ps0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Robert Eye
>
> Miranda,
>
> 3M makes separate Tarnishield for silver and brass. The chemicals used in
> each one are different, which means that regular silver Tarnishield will
> not really work on your slides. When I bought silver Tarnishield, I
> decided that it wasn't worth the extra expense for me at the time to buy a
> whole bottle of brass Tarnishield on top of that just to have shiny
> slides, but if you would like to keep the brass parts of your slides
> shiny, it's probably the best way to go. As far as Tarnishield not eating
> away the metal, I'm not sure. They do claim that it contains no
> abrasives, but the cloth that I apply it with always gets black, which
> usually means that some kind of metal is coming off.
To my knowledge, what is coming off is the silver sulfide tarnish. As
the silver has already reacted with the air-borne sulfur, you'd lose it
either way (I don't think that Tarnishield, or any product, dissociates
the sulfur from the tarnish, leaving the silver behind).
I have been using it on my LA Benge for 23 years and have had no
problems with silver removal.
FWIW, I have recently used Wright's Silver Polish (liquid) - NOT,
repeat, NOT Wright's Silver Cream which WILL scratch! - on an old
flugel I have. No apparent abrasives in the product. It claims that it
also provides a tarnish preventative. It was a thinner liquid than
Tarnishield. Might do in a pinch, but I'll stick with the 3M product.
> One nice thing about
> Tarnishield is that it makes the job of periodically wiping the
> fingerprints and skin oils off the horn much easier than it would be
> otherwise.
>
> Philip Scoles ... /|
> Eastman School of Music )--|||=====< |
> University of Rochester (___) \|
> Rochester, NY
> e-mail: ps0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Regards,
Bob Eye
Dallas, TX
Christopher
are no longer lacquered with....uh...lacquer. Today most manufactureres
are using (I think) acrylic paint. Therefore, on an old horn hot water
shoudl do it (It did for my dad's 50's vintage Buescher) otherwise you
need some pretty high powered paint stripper.
In article <36473F14...@stsci.edu>,
Padraic Brown
: VERY hot water will remove lacquer, but be aware that most modern horns
: >
Padraic Brown
hot water didn't do anything to this horn except, well, make it rather warm. I'll try the
brush-on remover mentioned in one of the previous posts.
Padraic.
: Christopher (camp...@csc.umd.edu) wrote:
: : VERY hot water will remove lacquer, but be aware that most modern horns
: : are no longer lacquered with....uh...lacquer. Today most manufactureres
: : are using (I think) acrylic paint. Therefore, on an old horn hot water
: : shoudl do it (It did for my dad's 50's vintage Buescher) otherwise you
: : need some pretty high powered paint stripper.
Miranda Jackson wrote:
: : >
: : >
EarleSlick
no it won't, unless you plan on leaving it at the car wash for about 4 decades.
See my other post for exactly how to go about doing this.///earl slick