Trumpet mouthpiece question (Bach 7CW)
Ludo Van Dun
I've a question about my mouthpiece. I now use a Bach 7CW.
Is this a good mouthpiece? I'm not satisfied of my playing hihg notes.
Is there anyone who can recommemd a better one?
Thanks.
Christopher
All I can tell you is that no one could really ever say it's a BAD
mouthpiece. If you read this newsgroup enough you'll see the same
answers every time someone asks questions about mouthpieces. find one
that works for you and learn how to play it.
The specifics about a Bach 7CW are that it's a relatively small diameter
cup (7) with a medium deep cup (C) and a wide rim (W). If you have large
lips, a cup with a lower number may be more appropriate. In most cases,
a 7c comes stock with student horns, for younger players. The wide rim
is nice for comfort, but can affect flexibility.
If you have a good music shop in your area, or even have access to a mail
order place that will let you try MP's out and return them I would
suggest trying a few moutpieces to find one that works well for you.
There is no miracle mouthpiece at any price, (and we've ALL looked high
and low for them) but some will work better for you than others.
You may find that th eone you have now is the best one for you.
Chris
Nils Klingemann
Hi Ludo!
> I've a question about my mouthpiece. I now use a Bach 7CW.
I use almost the same.
> Is this a good mouthpiece? I'm not satisfied of my playing hihg notes.
It *is* good, but not fine for playing high notes, as you already re-
cognized.
> Is there anyone who can recommemd a better one?
Huh, that`s a bit difficult. The best thing would be if you got to an
exibithion of such enterprises and try there. To every guy, it`s
different, the only thing you can do is try, try, try... ;)
CU, Nils
Gibt es ein Leben nach dem Logoff?
David Buxton
Perhaps you saw the already posted reply. That was good information.
The Bach 7 cup rim is generally considered a high school or grade school
rim diameter. Generally an adult should try a larger rim diameter.
Generally is a good disclaimer because even adult humans come in all
sorts of shapes and sizes.
I used to use a Bach 7B and then a 7C until I dialed into this newsgroup
and am now doing much better with a larger Schilke mp. You might want to
try a Bach 1CW. I use a Schilke 16C4 which is pretty much the same. I
also use a Schilke 22 which has an even larger rim diameter and once in
awhile you will run into somebody with a Schilke 24 which is the largest
rim diameter you can purchase off the shelf. The larger mouth pieces
offer so much better tone. Superb tone. My recommendation is to use the
largest mouth piece that you can use, which will let you get as high as
you need to get. I use my Schilke 22 for music that stays below the top
of the staff. And my 16C4 for music that spends any significant amount
of time above the staff. I play orchestra, not jazz.
Your post was asking about high notes. You were not clear as to whether
you are basically an orchestra/classical style player who would like to
get higher notes or whether you are into high jazz with little interrest
in the lower ranges. The orchestra players gravitate to the larger mouth
pieces and learn to play high notes in spite of their large mouth pieces.
Low and mid range tone is vital in that context. The high jazz people
are in a big hurry to get to double high C and above and all too often
could care less about middle C or 2nd C stuff. A good series to try for
the high jazz player is Schilke's 6A4a, 10A4a, 12A4a, 13A4a, 14A4a and
15A4a. An adult would try the larger rim numbers. The A4a series are
designed for the trumpeter or piccolo trumpeter who wants to specialize
in high notes. The A is a small cup which helps with high notes and can
be a problem in the low and mid range. The 4 is a cushion rim and the
'a' is a smaller back bore which is generally recommended for the
piccolos. Other mouth piece manufacturers also have piccolo optimized
mouth pieces.
The orchestral/classical players VS the high jazz specialists optimize
their playing style and mouth piece selection in opposite directions.
There is no mouth piece that works well for both groups. It is my
observation that there is a bigger difference between the high jazz
player VS the orchestral player compared with the orchestral player VS
the trombone player. It makes more sense to play trombone and orchestral
trumpet than it does to try and play trumpet in the orchestra as well as
a jazz band. Better still, make up your mind on what you want to be good
at and keep your focus there.
Dave
R. Rex Denton
In <4m2ida$j...@goodnews.wv.tek.com> David writes:
> Perhaps you saw the already posted reply. That was good information.
>
> The Bach 7 cup rim is generally considered a high school or grade school
> rim diameter. Generally an adult should try a larger rim diameter.
> Generally is a good disclaimer because even adult humans come in all
> sorts of shapes and sizes.
Mouthpiece preference is much too idiosyncratic for these kind of
generalizations. It's my belief that players of all skill levels read this
groupso I'm giving my two cents worth to this reply:
As a kid, I started out playing a cornet and a Bach 7 mouthpiece. As a kid I
got a rather nice sound with it and would agree that, as a kid, I was smaller,
and things need to be smaller for kids. As I got older, I was advised by my
teacher that I needed to think about playing the trumpets, and switched to a 7
on the trumpet. It sounded terrible to me! The reason for this is
YOU NEED TO FIND THE COMBINATION OF MOUTHPIECE/HORN THAT MAKES YOU SOUND GOOD.
I don't think I can emphasize this enough. I switched to a 3C athis point,
and it began to sound better. Even at this point, striving for "the sound"
is much more complicated than simply changing a mouthpiece for a given
application. I believe that its a combination of the horn/player/mouthpeice.
Presently, I'm playing a large bore Bach with either a 1.5C
Bach or a 14a4a with a 3c backbore (Parke), but depending on the way I feel,
the differences can be minor or major. For example, play a difficult show
week, by the end of the week if you are like me, your tone will be so fat you
will wonder whether its leaving the
pit at all. Play lead for awhile (on anything), and listen to the middle
register tone thin out. Put the 1.5 C on the Yamaha ML, and watch the
presence of the sound disappear. Comprimise to find the one that works well
for most puurposes.
> Your post was asking about high notes. You were not clear as to whether
> you are basically an orchestra/classical style player who would like to
> get higher notes or whether you are into high jazz with little interrest
> in the lower ranges. The orchestra players gravitate to the larger mouth
> pieces and learn to play high notes in spite of their large mouth pieces.
> Low and mid range tone is vital in that context.
What about intonation?
> The high jazz people
> are in a big hurry to get to double high C and above and all too often
> could care less about middle C or 2nd C stuff.
Who are these "high jazz" people? (And does this term represent a
Freudian bias?) If they don't care about all of the notes
who wants to play with them! Try playing a crappy sounding octave on
a lower part in a section with a great leadplayer/principal and see if you
get asked back!
> The orchestral/classical players VS the high jazz specialists optimize
> their playing style and mouth piece selection in opposite directions.
Nonsense. I think Adolf Herseth plays on a Bach 7 as does Arturo Sandoval.
They both play great, and have very different styles, to say the least!
(and the "VS" is another Freudian slip)
> There is no mouth piece that works well for both groups.
Yeah there is, and it's the individual players' responsibility to find the
comprimise solution and work on their own deficiencies.
> It is my observation that there is a bigger difference between the high jazz
> player VS the orchestral player compared with the orchestral player VS
> the trombone player. It makes more sense to play trombone and orchestral
> trumpet than it does to try and play trumpet in the orchestra as well as
> a jazz band.
This statement is incredible! I just did a show with a large orchestra.
The show was a big act at a concert hall.
It had some Legit/exposed viola/flute /trumpet soli parts and some real
high stuff as well. What's
your advice for this kind of situation? Or what would you do if the show
called for Ravel's bolero to be followed by a big band thing? It happened to
me awhile back! Let me tell you, I wasn't switching between trombone and
trumpet!
> Better still, make up your mind on what you want to be good
> at and keep your focus there.
>
I'll agree wholeheartedly with this point!
My advice is to find one or two closely related mouthpieces that work with the
horn you are playing and work on your problems. There is no easy solution and
some guys spend there lives looking for one!
Sid Lipkin
For all the time you guys waste with these pie in the sky adventures into the very volatile field of what mouthpiece to use, etc., you could have put that effort into PRACTICING the necessary material to strenghthen your embouchure in ALL ranges.
Try using Roger Spaulding's "Double High C in 37 weeks" and watch the unbelievable progress.
Dr. Chopmeister
The Lipservice Institute
>
>
Robert Eye
DEN...@biomed.med.yale.edu (R. Rex Denton) wrote:
>Nonsense. I think Adolf Herseth plays on a Bach 7 as does Arturo Sandoval.
>They both play great, and have very different styles, to say the least!
>(and the "VS" is another Freudian slip)
>
From numerous posts to this group and the TPIN: Sandoval plays on a Bach 3C.
Regards,
Bob Eye
Aaron Arnold
I've got to make one correction (or two actually). Your statement about
Herseth's and Sandoval's mouthpieces is incorrect. I don't know of a
single professional orchestral player who plays anything close to a Bach
7. That mouthpiece is WAY TOO SMALL. Herseth used to play a Bach 1C
until he switched to a Monette C1-1, which is abou the equivalent, or a
little bigger. And Sandoval plays a Monette B6, which is about the
equivalent of a Bach 3C or slightly smaller.
Aaron Arnold
Richard Sandals
I think you're right about Herseth (although I think it's actually a
1B, according to a couple of things I've read), but I think Monette's
web site lists the mouthpiece that he used when he was playing Monette
as equivalent to a 7C. This could be the source of the confusion. In
any case, I can't think of anybody who uses a 7C on big horns,
although I did see a book called "Trumpet Profiles" by Louis Davidson
and I have a feeling somebody listed a 7C (that's an old book, mind
you.) The closest I can think of is Gerard Schwarz, who used a 5C
with the New York Phil. Andre uses a 7DW for piccolo, and Phil Smith
uses a 7E for picc., but they both use bigger pieces for bigger horns.
Richard
brian moon
On't be fooled into getting a Shilke the sound doesn't carry. The
only person I know whose sound carries on a Schilke is Faddis.
brian moon
Voisin used a 6 or 6c I believe