Jet Tone VAHA and VMF
Ben Rademakers
Someone familair with these Jet Tone Vintage mp's
Lex Samu
Maynard model. Just make sure you get the pieces that were made while
Bill Ratzenburger was still alive. Both pieces are pretty small
diameters....the Maynard has no bite whatsoever. The rim just kind of
'slopes' into the cup....big throat and backbore...very open
sound...definitely a 'must have' for the serious mouthpiece collector.
The Al Hirt 'A' model is the shallowest cupped Al Hirt model and I
think it was Al's main piece. There was also a B and C model which got
progressively deeper. I remember the diameter of this piece feeling
smaller than a 101/2 to me....had that wonderful jet-tone double cup
design.
"Ben Rademakers" <benr...@brunssum.net> wrote in message news:<40541953$0$1473$2cce...@news.brunssum.net>...
David
news:6b6b4c20.04031...@posting.google.com...
Actually the A,B,C, & D designation on the Al Hirt model referred to the rim
shape, not the cup depth.
David
Lex Samu
series? It would actually make sense because that is how most of the
old Jet-tone numbering system worked. If you had a 3A mouthpiece it
would have the flattest rim going progressively rounder (A,B,C,D)
until you got to the D rim. The reason I question whether or not this
is true for the Hirt models is because I remember seeing those
specific pieces as having a shallow, medium, and deep specification.
This may have been a mistake in the music publication I was reading
though. Now that I think about it it makes more sense for them to keep
their system consistent with all their other pieces.
"David" <drn...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<KJqdneTK4aW...@comcast.com>...
David
I am positive about this. I have an old Jet-Tone brochure from this era and
it definitely shows only one Al Hirt model. It has a shallow cup and a
41/64" diameter rim. The only option was the rim shape, A,B,C, or D.
The same rim size with a medium cup is called the Studio model and the same
rim size with a deep cup is called the Symphony model. All had the same rim
options. These are the only mouthpieces Jet-Tone made with this rim size.
Al Hirt played the A rim.
David
Lex Samu
Symphony models were the same rim size. I was always curious about
those two models. I seem to remember them being called a Studio "B"
and a Symphony "C". So the Studio "B" would be a deeper cup than the
Hirt Model with a little bit of a rounder rim. (Doesn't Mic Gillette
play this model?) And the symphony "C" would be deeper still than the
"B" with an even more round rim.
Has anyone ever played these two pieces? I have always been
curious about them. I have played an old 3B and 3C which I liked, but
always wanted a little more depth to darken the sound a little. I'd
love to try/buy a 4C and 4D if anyone has one. I love that cup design.
Mark Curry uses a similiar design in his 600 series and his wonderful
DE cup mouthpieces. I have an 81/2DE which is one of my all time
favorite pieces.
p.s.- I do remember in the jet-tones they had a numbering system,
1,2,3,4 with 1 being the shallowest cup and 4 being the deepest.
"David" <drn...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<g8SdnT7sP5b...@comcast.com>...
Dave Lee
been in the drawer ever since.
Lets see where it is................
JoeGuy
rester; the dave staul model supposed to be best. however; these are hard to
play low on. i liked the ds model. it's about a 3.5 c with a straight up and
down shaft.
"Dave Lee" <dave...@aol.comspamnot> wrote in message
news:20040317120438...@mb-m04.aol.com...
Carl Dershem
news:6b6b4c20.04031...@posting.google.com:
> Thanks a lot for this info David. I was unaware that the Studio and
> Symphony models were the same rim size. I was always curious about
> those two models. I seem to remember them being called a Studio "B"
> and a Symphony "C". So the Studio "B" would be a deeper cup than the
> Hirt Model with a little bit of a rounder rim. (Doesn't Mic Gillette
> play this model?) And the symphony "C" would be deeper still than the
> "B" with an even more round rim.
Back in the day I played on each of the available Jet-Tone mouthpieces (I
occasionally shilled for them, and they made my custom mouthpieces). They
tended to sell the shallower 'pieces with flatter rims, so that the deeper
the cup got, the rounder the rim became - the Hirt sold best with the "A"
(flat) rim (which I found very uncomfortable - it tended to lock my lkip
into one position), the Studio sold best with the "B" rim (which I prefer -
it's much like the Schilke #4 rim), and the Studio sold best with the "C"
rim (which has more bite, and to me feels more like a Bach rim). They also
made a "D" rim which was between the B and C, but with the bite more toward
the cup.
Mic played on a Jet-Tone Studio model "D" until recently. He's changed to
marcinkiewicz, and has a custom piece they make for him which is very nice
(the E8.7 Gillette) which has a very nice feel, but which is too narrow for
me. Right now they're looking at my old custom Jet-Tone with the intent of
making me something to call my own, but I'm also looking at the Rick
Baptist model, which has VERY similar specs to mine. Not gonna decide
until I've played on the RB for a while, as $200 is more than a but pricey!
Thanks for letting me ramble. :)
cd
--
The difference between immorality and immortality is "T". I like Earl
Grey.
David
"Carl Dershem" <der...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94AFBA512ED...@68.6.19.6...
Any of the Jet-Tone mouthpieces could be had with any of the four rims. The
A rim is the flattest, the B next to the flattest, the C a little more
rounded, and the D rim the most rounded. I played a Studio with a B rim for
a while and thought it was a good mouthpiece. I also played the Jet-Tone T-2
and T-3 with B rims that I thought were pretty good mouthpieces. I agree
with Carl that the B rim is the best, at least for me. I play a Schilke now
with a B rim (a 14B4A that I had Schilke make since this size is not one of
their stock sizes).
As far as the Jet-Tone models go, you can't say that an Al Hirt model and a
Studio model and a Symphony model are all alike except for the cup depth.
They all have a 41/64" inner diameter, but they all have different outer
diameters. The Al Hirt is the widest (1.099"), the Studio in the middle
(1.097"), and the Symphony the most narrow (1.055").
Hope this helps.
David
Lex Samu
of Mic's piece? Is it 41/64ths? Also, about the Rick Baptist model, I
know he has one from Cink, but also there is one from Jeff Parke which
I think is his main piece. I have been told that this piece (the Parke
piece) is a copy of a Warburton 5MD top with maybe a 6 backbore (am
not sure about the backbore). I've never tried the Cink Baptist model
so I don't know if they're the same or similiar.
Carl Dershem <der...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<Xns94AFBA512ED...@68.6.19.6>...
John Weaver
Ferguson Jet Tone mp; under Maynard, are the letters "F B L" and lower
down "Made in England". On the reverse side, the letters " T M".
Thanks, Zircon
Carl Dershem
> Thanks for all the info Carl. Appreciate it. Do you know the diameter
> of Mic's piece? Is it 41/64ths? Also, about the Rick Baptist model, I
> know he has one from Cink, but also there is one from Jeff Parke which
> I think is his main piece. I have been told that this piece (the Parke
> piece) is a copy of a Warburton 5MD top with maybe a 6 backbore (am
> not sure about the backbore). I've never tried the Cink Baptist model
> so I don't know if they're the same or similiar.
They're now all using decimal measurement, so 41/64 comes out to about
.640" Mic's new 'piece has an inner diameter of .643", and outer diameter
of 1.097" and a shallow cup (.399"). The Baptist model has an inner
diameter of .688", and outer diameter of 1.105" and a depth of .419".
When I asked him about it, he said he's using the Parke right now, but has
no problems with the Marc...whatever.
Lex Samu
color'? I believe there was an English mouthpiece maker that made
Maynards pieces in the late 60's...they were called FBL's and I think
they are quite valuable....I seem to recall seeing some on EBAY go for
a tidy sum. Hopefully more people will chime in with their info on
this.
"John Weaver" <johnw...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<l9k6c.34856$J05.224003@attbi_s01>...
Doc
> The Al Hirt is the widest (1.099"), the Studio in the middle
> (1.097"),
I'm curious why they would by design make 2 mp's 2/1000 of an inch
different in diameter. That's a little less than the thickness of a
typical human hair.
jazz...@hotmail.com
> John, are you sure that's a jet-tone and not a 'horse of a different
> color'? I believe there was an English mouthpiece maker that made
> Maynards pieces in the late 60's...they were called FBL's and I think
> they are quite valuable....I seem to recall seeing some on EBAY go for
> a tidy sum. Hopefully more people will chime in with their info on
> this.
Were those the kind that were made on a blank that looked like stacked
discs? Seems to me I remember seeing him playing something like that in
the 60s.
--
Jeff Helgesen
http://www.shout.net/~jmh/
JoeGuy
greatest- particularly on mf model. but, i like my al cass mouthpiece
better.
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.04031...@posting.google.com...
Lex Samu
measurements measure pretty big. A .688 inner diameter by most
measurement standards would be HUGE! A Warburton 4 measures in at
.660. Laskey measures his by his numbers so, for example, a 60mc would
have a .660 diameter. He has an 80 series but it is a huge orchestral
diameter like a Bach 1. (80C) Is the Baptist Cink piece really this
big? I doubt it...I've played the Parke piece and played a Warburton
5MD...they're much smaller. A mouthpiece maker once told me it is all
at the point of where you start to measure the inner
diameter....Marcink must do it from higher up in the cup.
Carl Dershem <der...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<Xns94B0B9C4A41...@68.6.19.6>...
David
These measurements came from Gerald Endsley's book "Comparative Mouthpiece
Guide For Trumpet". He apparently measured the mouthpieces himself. Also in
the book is a reprint of a Jet_Tone brochure that says that all their
Standard mouthpieces (which includes the Al Hirt, Studio, & Symphony models)
have an outside diameter of 1:100".
Probably there would be differences in outside diameter measurements of
several mouthpieces of the same model for any brand because of the
individual polishing that takes place at the end of the mouthpiece making
process, especially when they are measured in thousandths of an inch.
I have played both the Al Hirt and the Studio, both with B rims, and the Al
Hirt definitely had a little more cushion to it. I've also played several
examples of the same mouthpiece (Schilke 14A4A for example) and found them
to all be a little different from each other.
David
Carl Dershem
> Thanks for the info Carl. I think Marcinks. inner diameter
> measurements measure pretty big. A .688 inner diameter by most
> measurement standards would be HUGE! A Warburton 4 measures in at
> .660. Laskey measures his by his numbers so, for example, a 60mc would
> have a .660 diameter. He has an 80 series but it is a huge orchestral
> diameter like a Bach 1. (80C) Is the Baptist Cink piece really this
> big? I doubt it...I've played the Parke piece and played a Warburton
> 5MD...they're much smaller. A mouthpiece maker once told me it is all
> at the point of where you start to measure the inner
> diameter....Marcink must do it from higher up in the cup.
Or it could have been a typo where ".668" was intended.
William D. Rowe
could be wrong.
--
(To reply remove no-more-spam from the reply to address)
<jazz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3f0vk$55c$1...@roundup.shout.net...
StephenDL
<jazz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3f0vk$55c$1...@roundup.shout.net...
Doc
> > I'm curious why they would by design make 2 mp's 2/1000 of an inch
> > different in diameter. That's a little less than the thickness of a
> > typical human hair.
>
> These measurements came from Gerald Endsley's book "Comparative Mouthpiece
> Guide For Trumpet". He apparently measured the mouthpieces himself. Also in
> the book is a reprint of a Jet_Tone brochure that says that all their
> Standard mouthpieces (which includes the Al Hirt, Studio, & Symphony models)
> have an outside diameter of 1:100".
>
> Probably there would be differences in outside diameter measurements of
> several mouthpieces of the same model for any brand because of the
> individual polishing that takes place at the end of the mouthpiece making
> process, especially when they are measured in thousandths of an inch.\
Or even just variations from one cutting bit to the next. I think it's
been pretty well established that there can be wide variations from
one piece to the next of the same model.
I've been playing a T1A for years now. The most comfortable mouthpiece
I've ever played. Found it sitting on the shelf in a music shop in
Monterey, Ca. when I was in the 7th Div. Band at Ft. Ord. I also have
a studio B but it doesn't feel nearly as comfortable.
JoeGuy
i've seen them on ebay. i remember them from 70's. i don't about quite
valuable; depends on the seller, i guess. was pictured on the album,
"statospheric."
"William D. Rowe" <browe_...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:ccSdnesyxqX...@giganews.com...
John Weaver
Yes it does look like a series of stavked disks, I bought it from a
Downbeat ad way back then, when I was experimenting with mpcs. Didn't
play it much- used a Giardinelli 10v and 10s mc, bored out and with the rim
flattened . Ruined a lot of mouthpieces to get the one I liked. Anyone
ever see Maynard's 'trick' mouthpiece with the cut glass and razor blade
edges on the rim? Think the first time I saw Maynard with S.K. in '51 he
was playing a Bellaire #23 - and his chops had a big white ring that looked
disasterous. But he played great. In '61 Herb Pomeroy's band played a
two night series of "battles" with Maynard's band, one at Nantasket Beach
and the other at the Del Ru ballroon in Revere. I was playing lead for
Herb's band and managed to pop off a triple F while Maynard was in front
talking to Herb. Maynard nodded. Zircon
Lex Samu
things about the OLD Giardinelli 10S but never tried one. Have always
been curious about those Bellaire mouthpieces. What were they like?
What was Maynards #23 like? Do you know anything about these pieces?
p.s. - do you still play the same Giardinelli piece?
"John Weaver" <johnw...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<PUn7c.54592$1p.902428@attbi_s54>...
CalicchioMan
>I think the mouthpiece that looked like stacked rims was a Jack Bell. I
>could be wrong.
Yep..that's what MF played in the 60's or at least part of the 60's