Backbore Question
Dave Cardarelli
The 3C has a #10 backbore.
The 3D has a #76 backbore.
The 3E has a #117 backbore.
My question: is the #76 more tight or more open than the #10?
And is the #117 more tight or more open than the #76?
My intuition says that as you go from #10 to #76 to #117, the backbores
would be progressively tighter, but I have a feeling that this may not be
true.
Thanks in advance,
Dave C.
Dr. Trumpet
"Dave Cardarelli" <carda...@capecod.net> wrote:
Dave,
If I recall correctly, the 76 is tighter than a 10, and the 117 is more open
than a 10.
AL
Dave Cardarelli
I have a 3C and 3E and I did a rough measurement of the backbores (using
precision dowel pins of suitable diameters), and the 117 did appear to be
more open. I always felt (incorrectly) that the shallower the cup, the
tighter backbore.
Maybe the larger 117 compensates for the shallow cup of the 3E, otherwise
the tone would be really edgy.
I am picking up a 3D soon and will be anxious to try it. I will profile all
three backbores enough to see a comparison, just for my information.
I use the 3C for concert band, and some local quintet playing, and the 3E
for a big band. So far, works out well.
Regards,
Dave C.
"Dr. Trumpet" <dr_trpt-...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dr_trpt-spamfree-C8...@news.iquest.net...
Michael Manthey
different bb's and compare their physical shape with others.
The terms "tight" & "more open" can have different meanings with each
player depending of so many factors. Some times a physically smaller bb
can "feel" more open to a given player, or a larger one feel more
resistant.
Check out the Kanstul site. Lots to look at.
"~iii<O"
BillBarbS1
is a larger more open backbore. Bill s.
J. M. TERRY
which Jeff Parke modified for me many years ago.
The 117 is definitely more open than the 76. I prefer the 76 for several
reasons, including intonation in the high register. The 117 seems to go
flat on the Bb trumpet. The 76 is also more centered and gives more edge
than the 117.
I believe the 117 backbore was intended for piccolo trumpet, although I
played a 3C 117 for many years until Jeff threaded a 7D cup to the rim
and also threaded the backbore. After trying the 76 with that
combination, I used the 117 only for piccolo, where it's better suited
than the 76.
Regards, Mike Terry
jim hickle
> And is the #117 more tight or more open than the #76?
>
> My intuition says that as you go from #10 to #76 to #117, the backbores
> would be progressively tighter, but I have a feeling that this may not be
> true.
The #117 is the most open; I believe it is intended for trumpets
with more resistance, like a piccolo. I tried using a 1-1/2c with a
#117 backbore for a few months on a Bb trumpet, and couldn't
make enough air for the low notes.
I believe it was Phyllis Stork who said it was like trying to play
into a vacuum cleaner.
Now I need to get a picc to try it on.
jim hickle
jhi...@icubed.com
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Dr. Trumpet
jhi...@icubed.com (jim hickle) wrote:
Susan RIder, a friend of mine who now plays in one of the service bands in DC,
used a 1C with a 117 backbore. I always found the 117 too tight for me, and
went to the 87, which is the largest one that Bach makes. John Stork made me a
copy of a Bach 1 with a 24 throat and an 87 backbore, and it was fine for some
time. Until I tried a Monette :-)).
jim hickle
> copy of a Bach 1 with a 24 throat and an 87 backbore, and it was fine for some
> time. Until I tried a Monette :-)).
With a Monette, you spend four times as much but it looks like you
made it yourself.
Nils Ek
It actually makes sense that the more SHALLOW-cupped 3E would have a BIGGER
backbore than that of the deeper-cup 3C.
Why do I write this? I'd love to say I figured it out on my own, but alas, no.
There is a chapter on trumpet-mouthpieces in the book "Musical Acoustics" by
Arthur Benade. (I may have gotten the title and/or name a bit off. My book is
not handy.) Prof. Benade shows how it is the *total* volume of the mouthpiece's
cup, throat and backbore that will determine the "popping frequency" of the
mouthpiece, which indicates the set of harmonics at which the mouthpiece
resonates. If I understand this correctly, it entails that you would use
mouthpieces of slightly-differing popping frequencies for differently-pitched
trumpets. I believe this is more or less the thinking behind the Monette
mouthpieces.
I've seen other articles expounding the same concept. People listening to a
hidden trumpeter playing on two or more different-shaped mouthpieces, all
having the same popping frequency, are unable to hear any difference in the
quality of sound. This is not to say that the different mouthpieces take
different amounts of effort on the part of the trumpeter.
A practical aspect of this is if you took an otherwise acceptable mouthpiece,
and drilled out the throat (a simple enough task - probably too simple), you'd
have increased the volume by removing some metal. The same amount ought to be
replaced in the backbore, i.e. a smaller backbore. Which would be rather
difficult. What really should have been done was to select in advance the
backbore required to match the drilled-out throat. Hence the large quantities
of mouthpieces gathering dust in drawers and shelves across the continent, due
to mismatched cup + drilled-out throat - backbore.
That said, I have to confess that I haven't seen fit to tinker with any of
MY mouthpieces ! :-)
My 2 cents (Cdn, worth about 1.5 US)
Nils Ek
Pointe-Claire, QC
Dr. Trumpet
Really. My gold horns look like I made them myself. Hell, I'm a great
instrument maker.
Take a goat.
Joel
mouthpiece parameters here:
http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/Forschung/english/mouthpiece/mouthpiece.htm
or in French here:
http://joeleymard.free.fr/Vienne/influence_embouchure.htm
Joel
http://la.trompette.free.fr
jim hickle
I didn't know you made trumpets. Why'd you name it "Goat"?