Does John have a web site or anyone know who the retailers are that carry
it?
Thanks,
Dave Cardarelli
carda...@capecod.net
Bobby said the same thing about Pops giving advice also, saying that such
things should be left to folk who actually play the instrument..
Dave Cardarelli wrote in message ...
I have the book. It was of no benefit to me. Different strokes for different
strokes. Email me and make me an offer I can't resist.
Larry Woods
turbo...@aol.com
who told bobby that pops doesn't play? i've heard he's pretty good. and that
he just chose teaching. it's a pretty stupid comment if bobby really said it.
but i doubt it wayne. this probably falls into the category of how bad rumors
get started.
--
«.--.¸¸.´¯`.º.´¯`·.¸¸..º..¸¸.·´¯`.º.´¯`·.¸¸.--.»
--------------------------------------------------------------------
change nospam to wdhill to reply to me by e-mail
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Cardarelli
carda...@capecod.net
I saw Bobby give a clinic at a Sam Ash store in Canoga Park this past
spring. Among other things, he spoke of his open aperature type of
embouchre. And just a week before I saw this clinic, Pops had written to
this newsgroup that if we asked Bobby about his embouchre, that he would say
otherwise. So, at the question and answer part of the clinic, I told Bobby
about this, and he actually became angry,and further demonstrated with a
visualizer that he meant what he said. He wanted to know where on the net
that I got this information, and said that people that don't play the
trumpet shouldn't be giving such advice.
Two months later, I was on a cross country trip, and saw Pops for a lesson,
at his now previous home in NW Arkansas. I told him about the clinic. He
mentioned, with a smile, that he had upset alot of folk on the net with his
advice.
Pops had an old Reynolds for a trumpet. I offerred him to try out my horn,
since he had never got to play this current model instrument (Holton St307,
with the valves in alignment). He played my horn for about ten seconds,
never getting above 'C' below the staff, and handed it back to me asking
what had changed from the previous model. I mentioned what had changed, and
we went on from there.
What surprised me during my time with Pops was with how little he played. I
had been in the company of four other teachers for lessons or clinics in the
past year, and all demonstrated what they were teaching. He put some music
in front of me, but never played any of it himself, which left me kind of
dissappointed. A couple of times during the lesson, Pops would sneak in a
few notes while I was playing, and I would put down my trumpet to hear him,
only to hear him stop also. At one point, I did hear him squeal quite high,
but it wasn't playing notes, just squealing.
Bobby demonstrated everything that he lectured about. I saw a clinic by the
Professor of trumpet at North Carolina. He demonstrated everything that he
taught. I saw Wayne Bergeron (lead for Maynard, and a top call recording
artist) for a lesson
and he played every exercise with me, without showing off until the end when
he took the exercise up to double high 'C' (five ledger lines), played
three more double high 'C's in a row, lip trilling the fourth, then slurred
up to the 'G' above that and came back smoothly to the double high 'C'.
Another teacher I took from ( a local jazz cat who had done some time with
Woody Herman), also demonstrated everything that he attempted to teach me.
Maybe I saw Pops on a bad day.
Wayne Brenner
Anaheim CA
Bill Adam also demonstrated each exercise for his students. In fact it
is through imitation of Mr. Adam's sound that his students achieved
their astonishing improvement. I remember a period of years when Mr.
Adam played up to high g or higher during "routine" every lesson
(sometimes 10 lessons a day) then demonstrated Charlier Etudes or
orchestral excerpts for each student.
I hear he's still doing it today at 83 yrs. old. Amazing!
Dulia
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
> >. By
> > the way, I was informed by a member of this group that in a clinic Bobby
> Shew
> > referred to the book as "First class <insert applicable four letter
> > explicative>" Just thought I'd pass that on in case you cared to know
> before
> > buying the book.
> >
> > Mike in Brockton
>
> Bobby said the same thing about Pops giving advice also, saying that such
> things should be left to folk who actually play the instrument..
Great. Insult by hearsay, just what we need. Pops wouldn't be the first person
to conclude that it's better to keep your mouth shut online than to open
yourself up to this sort of thing.
I always read Pops' posts, because they're informative, and because I believe
that he knows what he's talking about. As far as Lynch is concerned, I havent'
read his book, but I've been to his web page and have looked at the acoustics
stuff he's done, and I really liked it. Some real physics, for a change.
There is plenty of questionable things being written about trumpet playing. I
don't think that's a problem. We simply do not have a good vocabulary to
describe the process of playing, so we resort to phrases like "warm, moist air"
and "squeeze the air from all sides" etc.
Most of this stuff is, strictly speaking, nonsense. There is no way we can
moisten or heat the air we blow. We also can't squeeze air from one side only;
pressure is the same from all sides. That doesn't mean the advice is bad.
What is important is that we can try these things and figure out what the person
who said them meant. And we're all different, so different things will click
for different people. Clyde Hunt makes this point in his book, where he
describes his approach to playing many different ways to give the reader a
chance to grasp what he's trying to say.
Let's not post second-hand insults, please.
-Mathias
East Lansing, Michigan
i think you may be getting 2 different john lynch identities mixecd up.
there is one in washington, dc, who is a physics person, who will tell you
more than you wanted to know about all kinds of science things, but who,
i hear, is a great trumpet repair person in his mild-mannered spare time.
the "altissimo trumpet" one is someone else.
Well, considering that in the altissimo book it says,
"Mr. Lynch has also been a teacher, consultant engineer, writer and,
for many years, a senior research scientist for NASA. His publications
have dealt with a variety of fields including neutron physics, heat
transfer, applied mathematics, nuclear reactor analysis, statistical
interference, and reactor physics."
I'd say that the altissimo guy (John H. Lynch) is pretty heavy into
physics.
Although I have no knowledge of John Lynch, the Washington trumpet
repair guy, if you say he's a physics person, I'm not going to argue.
Mike
> Although I have no knowledge of John Lynch, the Washington trumpet
> repair guy, if you say he's a physics person, I'm not going to argue.
now i'm confused. tpin's john t. lynch can talk physics mumbo-jumbo with the
best of them, yet i seem to remember him saying another john lynch wrote
that book. this is odd. oh well, ... in case you are interested, here's a url for
some recent physics/trumpet stuff he posted:
http://www.whc.net/rjones/jlynch/acoustic.html
I agree. There is really no good that will come from that. Let's talk about
playing the trumpet instead.
David
My post about Bobby did NOT say he didn't play an open aperture. I was
responding to one persons thought based on a post that a clinic attendee
wrote.
Here is the qoute
"Some of the statements about Bobby Shew are a little misleading because
they are NOT complete. Yes Bobby Shew does use his tongue as you
posted. BUT the story of his aperture does NOT stop there. He does buzz
his lips and realizes the benefits of that buzzing. When you hear about
his approach it sends a different mental picture than if you were to SEE
it."
Ask Bobby about his lip buzzing exercises next time. He does do them.
Interesting that I would get slammed by someone who never met me.
With leaky heart valves, high blood pressure and acute asthma (45% lung
capacity) I never play when my asthma is acting up.
I've mentioned that before in this forum.
Interesting that a lesson should be compared to a clinic. But since you
chose to here goes.
I have a complete Don Jacoby clinic from the 60's on tape. In that
clinic he NEVER plays a note. Could he play in the 60's? YES.
In the 70's I attended a Claude Gordon clinic where he played only 1
note.
Ever see a Bud Brisbois clinic. Half a dozen high G's and nothing else.
Carmine Caruso and Arnold Jacobs didn't ever play the trumpet. Bet they
didn't play during lessons.
When a student needs to hear it to get it right I play. If he is working
on air delivery and breathing (which was what your lesson covered) I
rarely play. It isn't needed.
If you feel that you got nothing from your lesson I'll be happy to
refund your money.
Pops
A collection of Net Trumpet Lessons.
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/2429/Lessons.html
Information about my 2 books. "The No Nonsense Trumpet From A-Z" &
"Trumpet FAQ's" http://www.BbTrumpet.com
Best wishes
Clint 'Pops' McLaughlin
You and I had several emails and in one I told you that I felt you
should have your dental work before your lesson with me. You insisted
because you wanted me to see the problem tooth.
At the time of the lesson it had a flap of skin that was getting into
the space between two teeth. That flap was bothering you more than the
tooth was. We both agreed that it would be silly to work on embouchure
much and we worked on air.
As for my Reynolds its a great horn. The Contempras are sought after.
I've got 12 other trumpets that you didn't see. And I've only picked up
one since you were here.
Are you still cutting the tasteebros CD's. I know that you did the first
2. Scott was saying that he was getting ready to do the third one.
As far as your Holton goes I played the first 8 bars of Jacob Jones
written by Don Jacoby. It goes from low G to middle C (not low C). I
test blow every trumpet with that tune. It is also the first tune I
played when I tested the WT. A couple of weeks ago Marvin Stamm and
Dennis Najoom were in town doing a sells gig for B&H and a clinic at
SMU. There were 20 trumpet players blowing high notes only through every
horn that they touched. Only Me and Tommy Loy played low stuff on the
horns.
Marvin and I had a great discussion about how people go about test
playing horns.
BTW Dennis Najoom qouted from my book 3 times at the clinic. I doubt he
would have done that if he felt I was off base.
I should share my opinion, but I believe I will.... I've read the guys book,
it seems to me he copied some obvious information and added some crap.... I
dunno but reading the info on his page on the assymetrical mouthpiece makes
me think his mouthpieces are shite as well..... sounds like their whole
design principal is designed on range. Sounds to me more like a mad
scientist whose goal is to make a mouthpiece that 5th graders can play a
double c on (boy wouldn't that be just swell)...
__________________________
The following paragraph was my opinion only... I probably shouldn't even
post such a negative comment, but hey God's given me a loud mouth for some
reason ( somehow I don't think it's for this but oh well) If you don't like
it, I accept that and have no problem with it.... I would love to have
somebody inform that this guys book and mouthpieces do work well though....
I have no problem with being corrected.
If you were disappointed, why did you not address it at the time? If your idea
of a good lesson is listening to the instructor, then you should have spoken
up. The entire matter could have been cleared up more than likely.
....snip>Bobby demonstrated everything that he lectured about. I saw a clinic
by the
>Professor of trumpet at North Carolina. He demonstrated everything that he
>taught. I saw Wayne Bergeron (lead for Maynard, and a top call recording
>artist) for a lesson
>and he played every exercise with me, without showing off until the end when
>he took the exercise up to double high 'C' (five ledger lines), played
>three more double high 'C's in a row, lip trilling the fourth, then slurred
>up to the 'G' above that and came back smoothly to the double high 'C'.
My question here, what did you learn from listening to all of that? Did that
make the lesson more productive? What were they demonstrating that you had not
already heard or knew was possible?
Personally, I would rather have the teacher watch me, look for ways I can
improve and focus all of his mental energies on improving MY playing, not
demonstrating how superior he is to me.
I have had the privelage of a lesson with Pops and can say without doubt that
it was productive. He played just enough to demonstrate certain techniques,
but did not "show off" or do things that were beyond what I needed to focus on.
Come on, if I need work on ab action or support, then what would it benefit to
listen to someone play octaves above what I can do with the correct form?
>Maybe I saw Pops on a bad day.
Maybe you wrote this post on a bad day?
>Wayne Brenner
>Anaheim CA
>
Larry Woods
i took 2 lessons from claude somewhere around 1970, and he never touched
a trumpet. i don't even remember him saying much either. after driving through
3 counties during rush hour, it seemed a bit passive. i wanted compensatory
miracles.
: )
You and I had several emails and in one I told you that I felt you
should have your dental work before your lesson with me. You insisted
because you wanted me to see the problem tooth.
-- I did post to the group the idea of getting some dental work done to
assist in my playing,
-- or at the least get some additional comfort.
-- Response from this group was limited to two letters:
-- One posted to the group, cautioning me, the other was a personal letter
from Rune,
-- saying that I may have regrets if I was unable to adjust to the new
mouth. He gave,
-- among other things, John Faddis as an example.
-- I went ahead with the dental work, and have absolutely no regrets.
-- I have experienced definite comfort increases, and I am pretty sure
-- that it has helped somewhat with my playing,
-- as it has brought a couple of my bottom teeth a little further forward,
-- giving me a head start on getting a flat embouchure.
-- The dental work was done in February 1999,
-- about four months before I got to spend some time with you in late June,
1999.
-- I did ask to you to evaluate the idea of boring out a specific
mouthpiece to work
-- with a specific trumpet. WB.
At the time of the lesson it had a flap of skin that was getting into
the space between two teeth. That flap was bothering you more than the
tooth was. We both agreed that it would be silly to work on embouchure
much and we worked on air.
-- I have no memory about the flap discussion, and I am unable to determine
even if it was my
-- upper or lower that could have drawn any attention. I did have some
questions about air.
-- One you responded with that I should use less than a full tank of air
-- to get a better chance of using muscles to assist with pushing out the
air.
-- I was also curious about your Tai Chi breathing exercises, and asked
about them,
-- but you seemed to disinclined to discuss that further. WB.
As for my Reynolds its a great horn. The Contempras are sought after.
I've got 12 other trumpets that you didn't see. And I've only picked up
one since you were here.
-- I was unaware that you were that satisfied with your instrument. Your
commmets at the time
-- seemed to be of a modest nature when explaining what you were playing
on.
-- I understand better now. WB.
Are you still cutting the tasteebros CD's. I know that you did the first
2. Scott was saying that he was getting ready to do the third one.
-- I don't know what a tasteebro CD is. I have never recorded anything,
except a total of three songs on tape,
-- which I prompted disposed of after a listen or two ( I can't help be to
self-conscious of my playing).
-- I wouldn't dare put my
-- playing on anything that wasn't erasable. By the way, who is Scott?
-- When I do get friends or family to go to my college jazz band shows,
-- I get some comp tickets and pay for the rest,
-- explaining to all that attend that I do not feel that I should charge
anyone to see me play;
-- I am honored for the opportunity to
-- show how I am progressing as a student of music and of the trumpet.
As far as your Holton goes I played the first 8 bars of Jacob Jones
written by Don Jacoby. It goes from low G to middle C (not low C). I
test blow every trumpet with that tune. It is also the first tune I
played when I tested the WT. A couple of weeks ago Marvin Stamm and
Dennis Najoom were in town doing a sells gig for B&H and a clinic at
SMU. There were 20 trumpet players blowing high notes only through every
horn that they touched. Only Me and Tommy Loy played low stuff on the
horns.
Marvin and I had a great discussion about how people go about test
playing horns.
BTW Dennis Najoom qouted from my book 3 times at the clinic. I doubt he
would have done that if he felt I was off base.
-- Bobby also laughed about how other players test trumpets
-- by only testing notes 'G' above high 'C' and over. WB.
-- When I asked Bobby Shew about his open aperature, he showed with a
visualizer that his lips DO NOT touch at all,
-- no sound came out when he used the visualizer. He explained that he
-- needed the backpressure from his horn to emit sound.
-- He was very adamant about this. His buzzing exercises were for building
the embouchure only.
-- He made this very clear, especially after I questioned if that is
really what he meant. WB.
-- If I seem non-sympathetic to your medical condition, it is because I
didn't know all that ails you.
-- I was aware of your asthma, but not of other conditions. Apologies for
coming off as insensitive.
-- I did fail to mention in my earlier posts that you are great repository
of information,
-- and how gracious it was of you to share this with others whether or not
they bought your materials.
-- You were also gracious with the time that you spent with me
-- during my visit to your home at the time in NW Arkansas.
Sincerely,
Wayne Brenner
Anaheim CA
Comeback player, still very much a student.
I did not find that Bobby or Wayne Bergeron were show boating, but that they
were both pleasant people
to spend some time with.
When I hear two strong lead players demonstrate what they can do with a
certain technique, for example,
an open aperature, it can provide a convincing argument if I see no other
examples. I understand now that
there are other ways of approaching the instrument, and even other ways of
interpreting certain theories.
I look forward to understanding, and applying, more to my playing.
Wayne Brenner
Turbotrump <turbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991108192841...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
Wayne,
You might like Scott's playing. He is very good. He was lead with Maynard,
and now plays around So. Cal. trying to break into recording, etc.
There is a great clip of him playing at with the UNT lab band:
http://www.flash.net/~screech/trumpet3.html#Scott
Listen to both clips. there is a very nice sax solo in "Danny Boy" also.
and then follow the link to the Tastee Bros. site and listen to some clips.
I couldn't stop laughing the 1st time I heard it. They play classical songs 8va.
«.--.¸¸.´¯`.º.´¯`·.¸¸..º..¸¸.·´¯`.º.´¯`·.¸¸.--.»
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: Change NoSpam to wildtrumpet for e-mail replies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will also include something from the Encyclopedia of the pivot system
book on timed breathing (not taking a full breath).
I wished that I could take credit for those ideas but they were thought
up and written down by other people.
If you are ever in Dallas drop in.
Have a great week.
Apparently the file for Scott's version was accidentally replaced by Patrick's.
When Kurt fixes this, I'll let you know. (I already notified him).
--
> Apparently the file for Scott's version was accidentally replaced by Patrick's.
> When Kurt fixes this, I'll let you know. (I already notified him).
Scott just e-mailed me that he fixed it. If you listened and didn't hear a big band
version, then go again, and listen to Scott do an excellent job with this old maynard
classic.
The original question was about Lynch's book and his version of
a lip curl, very little pressure embouchure. One poster stated that
Bobby Shew (a great player in all areas of the horn) said it was BS.
Well that is true in Bobby's case.
Here's why.
The 2 use completely opposite approaches to get to the same place.
Bobby uses an open aperture and by his own words NEEDS the horn to give
him feedback (resistance) to complete his buzz. The Z horn has a
published bore size of .445. It has a large bell and a ML tuning slide
section and these things enable it to blow more freely than you would
think.
I played an open aperture for years. It produced a good tone
(although no better than my current embouchure). I could play to high A
above high C. For me it required too much work to maintain my sound,
range and endurance. It also needed more mouthpiece pressure to play
high than I wanted to use. That led to endurance concerns when I played
long shows with multiple sets. I also sometimes had lip swelling the day
after a hard gig. That required a lot of warmup. I didn't play full-time
and I couldn't spend 4+ hours a day to maintain my chops.
The other approach was taught to be first by one of Jakes' students
then by Jake. It required everything to change. It was not possible to
use the spread aperture and simply backoff the mouthpiece pressure. Nor
was it of any help to add lip curl to spread chops. It simply didn't
work. Therefore to a player like Bobby Shew trying any 1 part of the
embouchure in Lynch's book is BS. It is an all or nothing approach.
When I changed to a closed aperture and started using lip buzzing
like Mendez then it was possible to add lip curl, and lip compression
and backoff the mouthpiece pressure. That increased my range and my
endurance.
Jake told us to make playing mental rather than physical. He often
said 15 minutes of smart practice was better than 4 hours of hit and
miss.
Due to his health Jake himself stopped practicing and playing
during his lessons. He did still record. After several years of this
Jake stopped playing entirely. He said that he wanted to stop before
anyone noticed any flaws in his playing. I had already left him by then
but Mike Vax told me of one of Jakes' trumpet parties about 2 years
before his death. Mike went to the hall closet and took out Jakes' horn.
He landed it to Jake and told him that he should play at least once for
his current batch of students. Mike says that Jake played with fire,
passion, and the beautiful sound that he always had. To the best of our
knowledge Jake had not played a note in 2 years. I know that Keith Wood
(who helped on Jakes' book) lived with him. And Jake didn't play for at
least a year.
When asked about how he could play so well Jake replied that
"Playing is mental and air not physical." If he had needed hours a day
of practice that would not have been possible.
Jeanne advocates letting the tongue support the lower lip. Claude
Gordon taught anchor tonguing.
That forward tongue position helps open aperture players greatly.
This happens in a couple of ways. One it closes part of the aperture
hole allowing the player to fill the aperture with a lesser quantity of
air. Remember the aperture has to be filled up or the tone suffers. A
big aperture needs a great deal of air. The tongue helps to cut that
amount down to a manageable size. The tongue also helps to prevent the
dropping of pitches or tone variation on long tones.
I've converted hundreds of players to a closed embouchure setting
in the last 2 years. So far everyone likes it better than their old
style. Will they become the next Maynard Ferguson? Well I have a couple
of students who might but 98% will not. It does let them play with a big
full sound and increased endurance with only having to spend an hour a
day in practice. For the player who can't spend 4-8 hours a day
practicing a closed aperture is the best thing going. (I am working on a
new concept.)
Even some players who did spend a lot of time playing used a closed
setting and some lip curl. Don Jacoby (Get your CD from Donovan You
really have to hear him play Napoli). Mendez, Harry James. How about
todays players Dennis Najoom plays this way as does Arturo Sandoval.
Arturo is a lip buzzer. He has the loudest, strongest double C lip buzz
you will ever hear.
Why am I telling you this for free? That's what I do. I wished every
person who picked up a trumpet could kick my rear. That would make me
happy. I hope that either one of my kids or my students will take up
after I stop and keep going. No it isn't brain surgery but this is what
little I can contribute. So I do.
I will try to post the Brisbois / Tai Chi breathing idea tomorrow.
Hi Pops,
I am looking for clarification on the tongue position to use with the
closed embouchure approach. The Scream method describes using the tongue as
support for the lower lip & I was taught originally the anchor tongue
position. The tongue feels like it is in the way when I try to support the
lower lip & I'm not sure if it is necessary & something I should get used
to or if I should stick with the anchor tongue. What do you think is the
best way to use the tongue when playing with a closed lip setting?
Thanks in advance,
Spencer Hager Jr.
> Why am I telling you this for free? That's what I do. I wished every
> person who picked up a trumpet could kick my rear. That would make me
> happy. I hope that either one of my kids or my students will take up
> after I stop and keep going. No it isn't brain surgery but this is what
> little I can contribute. So I do.
Pops, you are The Man! That kind of open-hearted and giving attitude is
probably the only thing that will save the human race. My hat is off to
you, and I hope I can in the same spirit pass along even a quarter of the
knowledge and wisdom that you have!
In a closed system get your tongue out of the way of the air. The lip
curl and compression will more than cover for it.