1 1/2 lead mouthpiece,,,,,,,,too tiring
Albert Lilly
jfdon...@aol.com (JFDonaldsn) wrote:
>Donaldson, not only does he have an opinion on everything, he often has TWO
>opinions...
Just like every Lawyer I've ever met, huh Jim? ;-))))))))
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<snip>
"The whole process, including, for me the making of the VM mouthpiece on
my weapon-of-choice Schilke 18 rim, took about 6 months. On the other
hand, it is a wonderful mouthpiece."
I agree wholeheartedly with Jim! The Storks are doing wonderful things,
and are making great mouthpieces. I too went the route with having a
large selection of mouthpieces sent . I called them the Monday
following Easter, then in October received a HEAVY box full of new Stork
mouthpieces to try (for my picc).
No complaints at all about the wait. I too had my own delays-
performances and job-related things- once the mouthpieces arrived. The
Storks were quite understanding, giving me all the time I needed to make
the selection. The experience was a total new one for me and quite
rewarding. I now have THE mpc for my picc.
Their initial phone consultation saves alot of time by narrowing down
what your specific needs are.
Dave M
(remove REMOVE to reply)
Pops
shapes, throat and backbore sizes. Too many variables to be changing at
one time. If you like the feel of the rim and diameter of the Bach 1.5
then for a lead piece use that rim and diameter with a shallower cup.
Jim gave you several suggestions to try. If after finding one that feels
right and is less tiring then you can adjust the throat and backbore for
specific reasons. Some of the ones you mentioned were too different from
your main mpc to work. The 7 did not allow enough lip to vibrate and
once you were fully warmed up lots of notes cut out or were choked out .
In the .670 size the Giardinelli 3, Callet 18, Jet-tone 1c ( the 1
series is like a Bach 1 the 1c was cut to match the Bach 1.5 or 1x ) ( I
play JT so did Ferguson, Driscoll, Roman, Hirt, Doc .....) , Parduba 7,
Schilke 14a4c ( the a backbore is tight for loud lead playing). These
are all roughly the same diameter. The 1.5 could vary in diameter from
680 - .670 so all of these choices fall in line.
Someone at NT has most of these so you can try them for free.
'Pops'
A collection of some past posts & information about my book.
http://www.Bbtrumpet.com
MWB1JR
i tried playing on a bob reeves 43es, mark allen vizzutti e12, a jettone
aluminum 7s, yamaha bobby shew lead, a drilled out 5c bach, a lazer 2001 1,
and a drilled out 7c. I know this is a lot of mouthpieces, but they all, feel
great to play on for about 30 minutes, then everything stops working. The
yamaha babby shew lead, however, felt the best on me. it is the shallowest of
all the the mouthpieces and feels more open than all the others. the only
problem with it is, it plays louder than the band. when my high school jazz
ensemble, played a ballad "quiet time" i sounded as if i was playing into a
mic throughout the entire song. But for songs like primal scream...it kicked
butt. what i really trying to ask is what mouthpiece could a guy use for lead
playing, if my regular playting mouthpiece is a 1 1/2c bach?
JFDonaldsn
>...what i really trying to ask is what mouthpiece could
>a guy use for lead playing, if my regular playing mouthpiece
>is a 1 1/2c bach?
I like the Stork Studio Master series. I play the deepest of the series, the
VM, which still seems very shallow to me.
The VM is described as having a "medium" shallow V cup, enlarged backbore and a
shortened shank. It is recommended by them for pops, shows, and crossover work,
but seems to be great for lead players who want desperately to maintain the
bigger less shrill sound. It makes playing the range one has easier, is free
blowing, and the sound quality throughout the range is quite good considering
how shallow the piece is.
The largest diameter, the 2 is 17.25 mm (43/64 inch) in diameter which is
ballpark for a Bach 1.5 C (but then almost anything bigger than a 7C is //
obligatory Bach jab). Stork mouthpieces are reasonably priced from the discount
mail order houses and Stork is legendary for
a) listening to you on the phone, prescribing a choice of mouthpieces
which is likely to include the one you'll end up with, making them all
up for you, and sending them out to you to try. You pay for the one, if
any, that you want to buy and send the rest back for credit, you paying
only the cost of the shipping.
b) taking almost forever to do that.
The whole process, including, for me the making of the VM mouthpiece on my
weapon-of-choice Schilke 18 rim, took about 6 months. On the other hand, it is
a wonderful mouthpiece.
They have an informative seb site at: http://plainfield.bypass.com/~stork/
Besides, if you are trumpet major at UNT, you HAVE to know about the Storks.
Jim Donaldson
Denver, Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
JFDonaldsn
>what i really trying to ask is what mouthpiece could a
>piece is a 1 1/2c bach?
OR... you could also try a couple of mouthpieces that have rims that modeled on
the 1.5 Bach, but have different cups, some of which are specifically designed
for lead playing.
For example:
The Laskey 75 (star) is shallow cup mouthpiece slightly smaller than the 80
series which is based on Bach 1. HIs mouthpieces have gotten amazingly positive
comments from all of the jaded trumpet players who have played them. See Scott
Laskey's web site at: http://www.laskey.com. Brasswind and Donovan at Tulsa
Band (Tul...@oklahoma.net) carry the Laskey pieces.
Mark Curry also makes copies of class Bach mouthpiece rims with shallow (1.5M),
very shallow (1.5Z), and unbelieveably shallow cups (1.5XS). The rim should
feel familiar, the cup just different, if you are hunting to match the rim
feel. Call Mark at 800/695-1076. I don't know of a web site. Giardinelli
carries the mouthpieces.
Donaldson, not only does he have an opinion on everything, he often has TWO
opinions...
Jim Donaldson
Denver, Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
dennis
>>opinions...
>
>
i got recently got a good lawyer joke in the e-mail:
An attorney was sitting in his office late one night,
when Satan appeared before him. The Devil told the
lawyer, "I have a proposition for you. You can win
every case you try, for the rest of your life. Your clients
will adore you, your colleagues will stand in awe of
you, and you will make embarrassing sums of money.
All I want in exchange is your soul, your wife's soul,
your children's souls, your children's children's souls,
the souls of your parents, grandparents, and your
parents in law, and the souls of all your friends and
law partners."
The lawyer thought about this for a moment with a
puzzled face, then asked,
"OK, so... What's the catch?"
«•--.¸¸.´¯`.º.´¯`·.¸¸.•º•.¸¸.·´¯`.º.´¯`·.¸¸.--•»
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MWB1JR
really hard to play on!shilke! the storks are another group of mouthpieices i
cant play on. they dont a wider diameter rim that i play on. the lazer 1, has
about the widest flatest rim i have ever played on. I havent tried all of the
stork mouthpieces, but i know i dont like the one i have tried.
p.s. sorry so sloppy
PATTON
mine. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that one mouthpiece is best for
one player. I feel that mouthpieces serve many purposes. In the Lab band
you might find that several different pieces will color your tone for
individual needs.
Now the cup depth is good for balancing certain aspects of tonal color.
Shallow cups will sound brighter, deeper cups will sound darker. Also
however it is important to explore the need for volume. the throat size is
very important here. A small throat gives more resistence and has deffinant
influences on the upper register, it does however require more work to
generate more volume. Bigger throats will thus give you tons of volume but
will require more muscle to keep the apperature focused for upper work.
Then we have the backbore. The backbore contributes a great deal to timbre,
also influencing the volume and resistence angle.
The following will give you an idea some of my preferences and there
intentions.
Bach Strad, hg 43 bell, Lr 25 pipe, rounded tunning crook.
Symphony- Bach 1C 26 throat 7 backbore, or Schilke 24 for the likes of the
1812 overature.
Jazz 2nd chair or Jazz chair-Bach 3C no mic 3E mic'd
Bach 72 ml 180(I love the 72 bell for projection in the Big Band)
Marcinkiewicz Klien E9 for Big band charts that require a thinner higher
sound(works best when I have a full trombone section under me)
Otherwise when I play the Miller stuff, Shaw, and Ellington I like the 3C
Flugel horn-I usually never have to go above High C with this and I like
the big sound of the Bach 1C though I am looking for a V cup with a B type
volume and a backbore the size of a tuna can.
Pic-bach3D or E or B- When I play with the Quintet I use the C or D cup,
with Chamber groups I like to use the E or D. with orchestra I like to use
the B or jump down to a 1D
Cornets- Wick 3(hahaha just pulling your leg) I use a Schilke 20 for legit
or a 14 standard for Dixie. However if I'm going to be using a lot of tite
mute work I prefer the V cup of the wick( I had its backbore reemed). but
mostly if my range will be for small combo in a dinner setting and no real
range.
I understand that there is a 12 step program for people who play the
mouthpiece stepping game like me, but truth is I really dig it! Changing
timbres, colors and then trying to figure out how to really maintain
accuracy has been a blast. I am beginning to believe that the sound really
starts in your head and then and only then do you fret about the
mouthpiece. I know that for most of my trumpeting career I never strayed
from the mouthpiece my first prof suggested. I have made considerable
growth with regards to blending and intonation since I began to play
mouthpiece roulette.
Anyways it's cold up here in Alaska- Flame away!
Patton in Juneau
MWB1JR
Pops
use the same rim and cup diameter.
Even then you need to practice on EVERY mouthpiece that you intend
to play. If you change the rim or diameter then you need 4 or 5 times as
much extra practice as you would if you didn't change the rim. There are
several reasons why you might choose to play more than 1 cup depth /
shape / backbore. These have to do with making playing easier. Although
I can play a MF chart on a Bach 1 or Schilke 24 I can play it better and
last longer on another mouthpiece choice. I've played Jet-tone mpcs in a
jazz setting however when a different sound is required I go to a
different cup like a Schilke.
With the proper practice you can learn to change your tone
color . This can be done by slightly rolling out your lips, or making
your lip aperture more rounded or even by adjusting your air column
(resonance freq.). If you need more immediate results a deeper cup or
even one with some v shape will help. As for the heavy mouthpiece one
reason why they seem a little ( very little) darker with more presence
is that they do usually have some adjustment made to either the throat
or backbore, and sometimes both. This allows you ( makes you ) use more
air. More air means more tone. Remember folks they need to sell
mouthpieces. >
I've seen people change mouthpieces during a chart. When did
they TUNE ? Changing the cup shape, depth, throat, or backbore WILL
affect your intonation.
As for resistance in a mouthpiece if you use the Farkas
embouchure you need extra resistance. If you play the Stevens ( use a
lip curl ) then you need a more open mouthpiece or you will choke out
the sound. The same thing goes for Trumpets.
You need to test play 1 at a time.
You asked a group of strangers (who have never seen or heard you
play ) what mouthpiece to use. In my last post I only pointed out mpcs
that were the same diameter as the one you currently use. We don't know
what embouchure you use or the size of your lips. With all of the
variables involved any answer as to which ONE you should switch to would
be as accurate as hanging a chart on the wall and throwing a dart at it.
Howard Peirce
> what i really trying to ask is what mouthpiece could a guy use for lead
> playing, if my regular playting mouthpiece is a 1 1/2c bach?
Let me throw in my $.02 and kind of reiterate what others are saying: Don't think
about making a major change; think about making a minor incremental change. It
might mean a slightly shallower cup, a slightly flatter rim; it might just mean a
mouthpiece that's close but just a little . . . different.
I'm remember switching from a Bach 1 1/2 C to a Wick 4C just because I liked the
feel of gold plating. I couldn't tell you what the differences were in terms of
cup depth or rim size, but I gained endurance, about a 3rd at the top of my
range, and went from 3rd/solo in the jazz band to playing lead in the Latin band.
Maybe it's just because I enjoyed the feel of the mouthpiece so much. :-)
The thing is, you're obviously comfortable with big mouthpieces, and I've always
believed that you gain a lot of depth and richness from the biggest mouthpiece
you're comfortable with. So I'd look at mouthpieces that are similar to the 1
1/2C, and give each one enough time to see results (a couple weeks, at least).
HP
brian moon
You are lucky that you can't play Schilkes.
brian moon
Avalanche fans aren't the only ones with 2 opinions.
Lawrence Van Ameyde
brian moon
the mouthpiece, don't force it.
3 opinions it is snowing like mad and my youthful ward is sleeping.
MWB1JR wrote in message:
MWB1JR
me.
PATTON
MWB1JR <mwb...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990106012357...@ng-fc2.aol.com>...
> how can you have a good sound changing mouthpieces all the time??
>
Michael, I suppose the easiest way to have a good sound whether changing
mpcs all the time or not is to know what a good sound is and to practice
making that good sound.
As for changing mouthpieces all the time? I hope you will notice that the
mouthpiece configurations were for specific horns and certain sounds. It
has been suggested to me to modify my chops to bring out different
qualities, however I prefer to keep my embouchure constant and just change
the set-up. I find that it actually helps keep my centers more alligned. As
for god sound? That remains 90% in the ears of the player.
I have a friend whose strength is amazing--yet his judgement is poor. I
remember inviting him to sit with a combo I play with, his sound was so
huge that it didn't even match the setting or group. He was loud, his ideas
were too much like commercial Maynard, and the guys in the group chastised
me for months afterwards. I mean hey we were just playing standards, and
trying to please a small group of people at a resturant-nobody cared if
trumpets could play above a high C or not, they just wanted to hear
familiar tunes and smart interpretations.
I wasn't an ass about it though, I told him his ideas were out of order and
he was too damned loud(better than the old brush off saying don't call us
we'll call you, I let him know that night why he would be passed over as a
sub-in). Yet in spite of his promises to be a good boy in the future, the
combo has already black balled him. Like I said I got in trouble just for
suggesting him. Also it didn't take long for his rep to sink him in the
jazz setting- He still plays in the Big band and with a funk/R&B group but
he says he really prefers a combo piece. I guess he'll need to start his
own group to do that-I hope so it's painful to watch someone hang
himself-musically-
Hope this makes sense
Patton in Juneau
Paul Ayick
MWB1JR wrote:
> I know what a good sound is, and people tell me I have a good sound all the
> time. You don't get gigs with a bad sound!! As for Maynard, I personnally
> don't like his sound very much. But, what you said makes perfect sense, but is
> not what I originally asked.
>
> Michael in texas
--
Visit me at:http://home.earthlink.net/~bulos/index.html
MGoldb3829
I say this with all due respect for a fellow horn man.I am interested to hear
your point;I didnt understand it from your anecdotdal diatribe.
MWB1JR
MWB1JR
Ed Hirschman
had Jeff Parke make me a 3 peice mouthpeice with a Bach 1 1/2C rim, Warburton 3S
cup and a Warburton 5 backbore. I didn't like the standard Warburton 3S rim
because it doesn't have an "edge" like the 1 1/2C does. I've been using this
setup for about 7 years now, and its great for D trumpet and piccolo trumpet as
well. Warburton made me another one of these mouthpieces as a backup.
MWB1JR wrote:
> In lab band at North Texas i play my high stuff on a 1 1/2 c bach mouthpiece.
> i tried playing on a bob reeves 43es, mark allen vizzutti e12, a jettone
> aluminum 7s, yamaha bobby shew lead, a drilled out 5c bach, a lazer 2001 1,
> and a drilled out 7c. I know this is a lot of mouthpieces, but they all, feel
> great to play on for about 30 minutes, then everything stops working. The
> yamaha babby shew lead, however, felt the best on me. it is the shallowest of
> all the the mouthpieces and feels more open than all the others. the only
> problem with it is, it plays louder than the band. when my high school jazz
> ensemble, played a ballad "quiet time" i sounded as if i was playing into a
> mic throughout the entire song. But for songs like primal scream...it kicked
> butt. what i really trying to ask is what mouthpiece could a guy use for lead
MWB1JR
IM JAZD 1
>
>
I like Maynard as a whole..and of course he is and always will be a legend.
There is something in his sound (sometimes) that I too don't really care for.
I guess the only way I can describe it is the "lazer" like quality that is
present all the time. I have several Maynard recordings and have heard him
live several times..and even when he's playing a ballad or the like--there just
isn't as much warmth as _I_ like..but then that's just me ;)
Julie
Albert Lilly
(MWB1JR) wrote:
Michael,
You might do yourself a big favor and define exactly what it is your are
looking for in a mouthpiece, and what characteristics of the mouthpieces
you currently own you like. Then, one might have a good chance at
suggesting or directing you toward a mouthpiece. Of course, doing so
several states away is akin to driving a snow plow via remote control from
five states away. [You might remove the snow, but probably will end up in
a field.] Chances are good the advice you get from this NG will be
general at best or observations from similar experiences, and may not meet
the seemingly case specific information you desire.
My best source for advice as an undergraduate was my teacher. He had a
far greater knowledge than I, and with his far greater knowledge came also
the experience of working with me as a student. That is who I would
consult first and foremost. Especially since you are studying with Dr.
Candeleria, I can see no reason that you would not got to him.
I have had several students who have gone off and purchased equipement
without a clear knowledge of what they were looking for, or with only
limited information. Best to let the fellow you are paying to develop you
as a trumpeter advise your selection of equipment.
And as far as get gigs with a bad sound, I'd say you're a little off. You
can get one gig that way: it is the second and third gig after that point
that defines whether or not you were "good enough to ask back." Look for
the return business to define your progress!
Greetings,
AL
Paul Ayick
When I was a kid my middle school band director used to cringe at Maynards
sound.Maynard is the epitome of in your face big band playing and for my money
still played the fattest high notes I ever heard (caught him live as early as
'58).However if I were of a mind to relax with my friend Jack Daniels and wanted to
listen to some trumpet playing I'd probably opt for Phil Smith,or Dokschitzer,or
Diz or Kd or Fats ............so I absolutely understand what you are saying.But
gawd i would love to be able to do that!!!!!!!!!! <grin>
Paul
IM JAZD 1 wrote:
--
IM JAZD 1
>gawd i would love to be able to do that!!!!!!!!!! <grin>
No kidding Paul!! Me too ;)
Ed Hirschman
because they had to cut down (and I had to pay for) a Warburton top to
get just the 3S cup and an entire mouthpeice to get the Bach 1 1/2C
rim. These parts, like the backbore, may be available as separate parts
today.
MWB1JR
am lookingfor an all-around mouthpiece for a person with big lips. something
good for lead and solo work.
MWB1JR
does awesome things with music,thats why I have 10 of his CD's.
MWB1JR
brian moon
You din't like it with the original throat?
JazzDude12
>I am looking for a mouthpiece that shallow, but not toooo shallow. i guess i
>am lookingfor an all-around mouthpiece for a person with big lips. something
>good for lead and solo work.
1E in Bach works good...Big mouth piece and it is easy to hit high notes
Bob Willems
Try a Schilke 13B or 14A4a : these are lead mouthpieces. Or try a Jet-Tone ...
or ... Perhaps a little more practicing can do miracles !
Bob from Holland, West Europe
MWB1JR
look too weird to be considered a serious mothpiece for me.
JayDubz
way you want to) then that's all that's really important. I'm not sticking up
for Jet-Tone here, but I'm saying that if the piece fits, wear it.(so to speak)
Jeff Warner
Jay...@AOL.com
Regards,
Jeff Warner
Jay...@aol.com
Jeff Kelleher
they were dirty underwear. Stick with one for a while.- maybe several
months to a year. You'll never get comfortable and know whether you really
like a mouthpiece unless you use it for a while. Your chops may feel
different every day, but switching mouthpieces will not help you to find a
"normal" feel. Do however, continue to change your underwear...
Jeff K.
In article <19990109164828...@ng-fc1.aol.com>, mwb...@aol.com