Wild Thing Trumpets-Really that good?
TomM in NY
a band that does everything from Jazz for weddings to Chicago and Earth Wind
and Fire tunes. I looked at the Wild Thing and it seems to be what I want but
I am not sure I want to spend that kind of $$$.
Any thoughts or ideas?
Thanks in advance!
tom
Jim Donaldson
>I am not sure I want to spend that kind of $$$.
So what's the question?
Jim Donaldson
Denver Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
The Schilke Loyalist
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke
Greg Evans
> I looked at the Wild Thing and it seems to be what I want but
> I am not sure I want to spend that kind of $$$.
> Any thoughts or ideas?
I find that the free blow and large bell-throat are easy for me to work with
and give me the sound and flexibility I want. The people who like them tend
to REALLY like them, and there is a certain perception of the WT by some as
a sort of be-all, end-all, Acme Of Trumpet Evolution horn. However, as with
anything else, it's a matter of personal taste and other designs work better
for other people. The Wild Thing is a very nice, well-made trumpet, and
their price is not out of line for a high-end professional instrument. But
they simply aren't everyone's cup of tea. Bottom line: try one and see what
you think!
Greg Evans
Richie Bee
something bigger than your ML Bach? Are you finding your Bach restrictive?
I don't know about others, but I found the Wild Thing too big for me. It
depends what you're after. Oh, and depends to a certain extent what kind of
gigs you do. Would you leave a Wild Thing on a stage with a bunch of
wedding drunks? I wouldn't!
What are you looking for that your Bach doesn't give you? Not wishing to put
you off the Wild Thing which is a fine horn, but there's plenty of others
out there for less.
R.
"TomM in NY" <tomm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040604135036...@mb-m19.aol.com...
William Graham
Tom.....I have found that trumpet players grow into the horns that they
need. Every time you practice, put a dollar, or a quarter into a jar, and
every time you earn some money playing at a gig, put a couple of bucks into
the jar, and by the time you find that you really want a new horn bad
enough, you will have enough money in the jar to buy it.
ALAN CHEZ
flip IS a great guy . call him.
there are different slides that make the horn a little smaller if you
prefer . ( helps to ease into the big horn ).
but in the end you will love the large slide and sound of this horn.
there is also a Jazz slide that is great for lead playing.
overall a great all around horn.a the Letterman show we have to play
with all different kinds of groups. this horn is very versitile and
adapts to different moods .
try one.
ALAN CHEZ
trumpet-late show with david letterman
Greg Evans
> at the Letterman show we have to play with all different
> kinds of groups. this horn is very versitile and
> adapts to different moods .
Alan brings up a good point that I forgot to mention. This may be a big
horn, but it isn't just for playing balls-to-the-wall loud screamin'. It
can also be played very quietly and still sound rich, warm, and full. But
again, it pays to match the horn to the player!
Bob Bouffler
in sections a lot better than the WT and has a greater versatility of sound.
The 43* can really sizzle and is very popular in LA studios. The WT is
purely a solo horn.
Bob Bouffler
ALAN CHEZ
Jeff Helgesen
ALAN CHEZ <thech...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<Gxxxc.3621$Y3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Ellis
news:20040604135036...@mb-m19.aol.com:
So did you ever get one?
William Graham
This is a question that nobody can answer but yourself. You are the only one
who knows what you like/dislike, and what you can afford. There are some
people who are unhappy unless they are playing their $10,000 Monettes. There
are others who make their living playing beat-up Olds trumpets they bought
in a garage sale 20 years ago for $40.
pyoung
news:7fWdncwFZ_P...@comcast.com:
> There are others who make their living playing
> beat-up Olds trumpets they bought in a garage sale 20 years ago for
> $40.
>
I'd like to meet those players.
William Graham
"pyoung" <pyo...@mfire.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9631D556162...@216.168.3.50...
S Meyer
"William Graham" <we...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Q6ednejxqfE...@comcast.com...
but I like my Olds Super better than the Schilke I played in high school and
college.
William Graham
"S Meyer" <beam...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:sSB5e.16624$ZB6....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
good, or be able to play well, or get it to slot well, or be in tune. There
have been many cheap horns made that do all of those things, and in the same
way that a good photographer can make beautiful pictures with a cheap
camera, or an old one, a good musician can make beautiful music with a cheap
horn, or an old horn that he picks up cheap in a second hand store. In fact,
in my opinion, most expensive horns are sold because of the placebo
effect....Because they are expensive, the one who buys them thinks they
sound better, or are easier to play. In a real blindfold test, most
musicians couldn't tell the cheap ones from the expensive ones, or, even if
they could tell the difference, they would pick the cheap ones for better
playability half the time.
John Miller
> Of course. It's a myth that you have to have a $2000 horn in order to sound
> good, or be able to play well, or get it to slot well, or be in tune. There
> have been many cheap horns made that do all of those things, and in the same
> way that a good photographer can make beautiful pictures with a cheap
> camera, or an old one, a good musician can make beautiful music with a cheap
> horn, or an old horn that he picks up cheap in a second hand store. In fact,
> in my opinion, most expensive horns are sold because of the placebo
> effect....Because they are expensive, the one who buys them thinks they
> sound better, or are easier to play. In a real blindfold test, most
> musicians couldn't tell the cheap ones from the expensive ones, or, even if
> they could tell the difference, they would pick the cheap ones for better
> playability half the time.
One of the ways that premium horns excel is in the intonation of the
partials (with themselves), e.g., how close all of the open notes are to
in tune with each other. Same for each of the six valve combinations.
A cheap horn that doesn't have some clinkers in this regard is a rarity.
--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)
William Graham
"John Miller" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:d371rf$ear$1...@n4vu2.n4vu.com...
excessive variability in their manufacture. IOW, there would be greater
differences from horn to horn off the end of their assembly line. But if you
were to find a good one, then it might be just as good as a very expensive
horn, and, with a lot of variability off the line, a good one must come
along by chance now and then, so they are out there, and our job is just to
find them.....
Robin Harris
750, 000 TV audience c 4,000,000) on a £33 Rudy Muck trumpet I got on
ebay...
mind you I am waiting on a 8310z at the moment hopefully be with me by the
end of April. I thought I might review it for the ng for information so what
would people like to know ....
Robin
"pyoung" <pyo...@mfire.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9631D556162...@216.168.3.50...
John Miller
> In my opinion, the chief problems one might find with cheap horns is
> excessive variability in their manufacture. IOW, there would be greater
> differences from horn to horn off the end of their assembly line. But if you
> were to find a good one, then it might be just as good as a very expensive
> horn, and, with a lot of variability off the line, a good one must come
> along by chance now and then, so they are out there, and our job is just to
> find them.....
I take a back seat to no one in pursuit of bargains, but I'd rather
spend my time trying to find a good horn cheap than trying to find the
elusive excellent cheap horn (some brands of which are doomed by design
never to rise to the mediocre).
John Miller
> not dissimilar I played the Lords Mayors show in London (live audience c
> 750, 000 TV audience c 4,000,000) on a £33 Rudy Muck trumpet I got on
> ebay...
Funny thing...I was visiting just this afternoon with a pro buddy who
has shelved his Benge in favor of a Rudy Muck to gig with (about as much
invested as yours).
S Meyer
influence is who is using / driving the product. Just because Vjay Sing
plays cleveland, if I play cleveland I will shoot in the 70/s. Right.....My
Dad who is in his 70's plays an old Conn trombone, I have no idea what model
and he probably doesn't either, but all he cares about is that the slide
works good. and he plays a very nice trombone....
Carl Dershem
news:d373ac$98l$1...@sparta.btinternet.com:
> not dissimilar I played the Lords Mayors show in London (live audience
> c 750, 000 TV audience c 4,000,000) on a £33 Rudy Muck trumpet I got
> on ebay...
>
> mind you I am waiting on a 8310z at the moment hopefully be with me by
> the end of April. I thought I might review it for the ng for
> information so what would people like to know ....
I played through college and my navy band audition on an Olds Ambassador,
which I still have. I play on a custom horn now, but still occasionally
use the Olds for some gigs.
cd
--
The difference between immorality and immortality is "T". I like Earl
Grey.
William Graham
horns. Most of the horns I have now that I like are horns that I picked up
used for a reduced price. New, they were quite expensive, but used I paid
about 50% of the new price, and they all play as well as the day they were
made...:^)
William Graham
attention to price, BUT.......I am just as affected by the old placebo
effect as anyone, and I like good quality well finished instruments in spite
of the fact that I know it's all in the head.....I don't, however, have to
have the latest and the newest....I seem to be happy with older horns that
were the, "top of the line" in their day......
Noah Little
> I am just as affected by the old placebo
> effect as anyone, and I like good quality well finished instruments in spite
> of the fact that I know it's all in the head.....
But it's not. All you have to do is play a horn where the octaves are
out of tune to realize that.
See the following for an explanation of trumpet intonation an engineer
can appreciate:
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Brass%20Clinic.html
--
Noah
Robin Harris
does have the cushion rim mouthpiece which I used use all the time but moved
on to a Warburton as it was just as good in the upper register but
considerably easier in the lower register.
The reason mine was so cheap was the lady I purchased it from had it as an
ornament on her mantlepiece and did'nt even know it played - I took a risk
and got a bargain. I have seen similar models go on ebay for over £165 ($350
perhaps)
Robin
"John Miller" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
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William Graham
"Noah Little" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
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But this article is basically just, "Hand waving". There are no numbers, or
formulas in the article at all. There are no drawings, or explanations of
where the instrument needs to be tapered, and where it needs to be conical
in cross section. Therefore, there is no real physics in the article. On
inspection of my various trumpets and flugelhorns and cornets, I cannot find
any variation in the internal diameter of the pipes anywhere except in the
bell area, where they obviously grow larger in diameter, and some of them
have a smaller leadpipe than the general bore elsewhere. To me, the
differences are mainly to improve the ease of manufacturer, rather than to
achieve better intonation. - Of course, I could be wrong, but the burden of
proof must be on the manufacturers of multi thousand dollar instruments in
order to get my money, not the other way around. I have yet to see the
inside of a good horn factory....I would love to see where they taper the
tubing in accordance with some formulae for some particular section of the
horn in order to achieve some better intonation of some particular note or
notes. Until I do, I refuse to believe in magic. I am sorry if I am a
skeptic, but it is the way I have been brought up, so there isn't much I can
do about it.
Tommy T.
> But this article is basically just, "Hand waving". There are no numbers,
or
> formulas in the article at all. There are no drawings, or explanations of
> where the instrument needs to be tapered, and where it needs to be conical
> in cross section. Therefore, there is no real physics in the article.
You are right. I played Schilke's in the '60s when they were the new thing
on the block and one of the complaints about Schilke was that he was making
public statements about horn design and construction that were generally
viewed as not be credible. For example, I was told by Tottle (well known
Boston area instrument repairman and Bach modifier) that Schilke claimed at
a conference to have made a trumpet for a working professional with a bell
only 3 mil thick.
Most instrument design remains artisanship, not engineering. The design is
a series of compromises that different designers and different players would
make in different ways.
Flip Oakes, father of the Wild Thing, says that he spent years fiddling with
trumpet parts until he happened to hit on the particular combination of
pieces that makes the WT. It wasn't designed on paper or in a CAD program.
I have a WT with several different tuning slides. I can demonstrate in a
blindfold test near 100% accuracy in distinguishing between the #1 and #2
tuning slides quickly and by playing in any octave and technical style the
auditor may request. The difference between those slides is that the #1 is
a constant 0.470" throughout while the #2 is tapers continuously from 0.464"
to 0.470". I also have the J-1 tuning slide which is the same as the #1
except that it does not have a brace. I can demonstrate in a blindfold test
about a 2/3 rds accuracy in distinguishing between the 1 and the J-1 when
playing in my highest octave. These difference are real and I can reproduce
my blindfold test results for anybody that wants to vist and observe for
themselves.
(I also get more worn out by the end of a long rehearsal or concert when
using the J-1 -- although this perception is not done blind. I prefer the
way the J-1 performs up high and can't tell any difference down low. I like
the looks of the J-1 better. So, I have no negative mind set that would
have caused my non-blindfold knowledge to affect the degree of tiredness I
experience. Nevertheless, I acknowledge that pschological factors could be
work with respect to tiredness. Maybe I just had an off night the first
time I used it and that has created a mind set that is self reinforcing.)
Again, Flip doesn't have an explanation based in formulae and he doesn't
claim to have one. He only has the results of years of tinkering that just
happen to work very well. To a certain extent, it's a shame that Schilke
and some others claim to have reduced it all to a science because they in
fact have not and their claims leave them subject to complaints like yours,
which in that context are justified.
But, let me tell everybody that is interested: I've played both heavy and
"light" Monettes and they are very different. I don't like them. Although
I left music school for career in law and as a result can buy any trumpet
made, I don't buy that brand because it does play differently and has
characteristics that I do not like or want. The fact that no one has a
program that can predict how and why Monettes are different does not change
the equally valid fact that they are different.
The Wild Thing is also different, although not to the same extreme. I like
it.
Tommy T.
William Graham
"Tommy T." <thomas....@att.net> wrote in message
news:Y2a6e.3503$Fm5.34@trndny09...
different trumpets, and being concerned with trumpet design.....But that's
about it....A day or two. When your habit becomes so invasive that you find
yourself spending real practice time pursuing that kind of nonsense, then
it's time to get help.....:^)
El Lippo
Can the 'perfect' horn be TOO perfect where it's unforgiving? It's one
thing to play a horn that comes alive when the player is 'on', but how
about those days when the same player is not in optimal condition at
the time? Is the horn itself going to let the player coast a bit, or
will the horn highlight what might sound bad as a result of the
player's shape? While people might argue about the bad workman blames
his tools notion, it goes without saying that few players feel good at
all times. Hence, is the 'perfect' horn going to be a help or a
hindrance?
William Graham
"El Lippo" <beaglebob6192@(nospam)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bijk511umlulomp5t...@4ax.com...
Well, it'll certainly take away any excuse you might have for making a
mistake......
Mike TERRY
every conceivable circumstance.
To be perfectly frank, this horn overwhelms every horn I've ever played
along side it.
A whole section of WT's could literally blow down Jericho's walls.
But, the one drawback I encounter is when I'm playing anything but lead
in a section. Then, I really have to hold back so as not to overwhelm
the rest of the section.
The other drawback is trying to get a sizzling, piercing sound.
Granted, I have only the #1 and #2 tuning slides, and perhaps should try
some of the other models.
Overall, I've owned and sold so many horns that I lost track, but the WT
will be the very last horn I will ever sell. It really is one
magnificent horn, especially for solo work, and it won't tire you out as
fast as some of the smaller bore horns.
The ratio of effort to sound on the WT is, without a doubt, better than
any horn I've ever played.
Best Regards,
Mike Terry
Carl Tuba
john redman
JR
"El Lippo" <beaglebob6192@(nospam)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bijk511umlulomp5t...@4ax.com...
Carl Dershem
3253.bay.webtv.net:
> I've played my WT almost continuously for the past 5 years, in almost
> every conceivable circumstance.
Man - your lip must be either very tired, or made of steel by now!
:)
frankieb929
this one. The WT is NOT just a solo horn, it's NOT just a jazz horn. It
IS every horn you need it to be. If you're purchasing a WT you probably
know how to play (let's hope). Having played one (not yet an owner) it is
the next purchase on my list. If you're not looking to spend that kind of
dough look at the Zeus line of trumpets, even before the Bach's, if you
ask me. I've in the Army band for over 12 years now and we play every
genre of music imaginable for every type of event/audience imaginable. I
know without a doubt the WT is the horn for me. So, yes! They really are
that good.