Online orchestral parts?
desperation_dude
does anyone know of any online sources of free downloadable orchestral
parts (most importantly the trumpet part of course)?
I have searched and searched, but there does not seem to be much up...
There are a couple of sites that have a nice selection of complete
scores, but not the individual parts... I'd think that a nice online
collection of parts would be of immense use for musicians of all
orchestral instruments. Are there any out there?
Thanks
Jim Donaldson
>I'd think that a nice [free] online collection of parts would be of
The problem here, of course, would be the immense fine for the immense
copyright violation.
Jim Donaldson
Denver Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
The Schilke Loyalist
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke
John Miller
> The problem here, of course, would be the immense fine for the immense
> copyright violation.
For copyrighted material, yes, but surely the notes to, e.g., the trumpet
part to Beethoven's 5th aren't under copyright -- only various editions,
right? How about Mahler's 5th?
--
John Miller
You'll feel devilish tonight. Toss dynamite caps under a flamenco dancer's
heel.
Dr. Trumpet
> Jim Donaldson wrote:
> > The problem here, of course, would be the immense fine for the immense
> > copyright violation.
>
> For copyrighted material, yes, but surely the notes to, e.g., the trumpet
> part to Beethoven's 5th aren't under copyright -- only various editions,
> right? How about Mahler's 5th?
One would have to locate and scan versions that are no longer under
copyright for Beethoven's works, which is still a hard thing to do. The
music for Beethoven seems to have dried up in all be the most recent
"editions". And, Mahler is even worse. I want to cite part of Mahler #3
for my dissertation. I am still waiting on permission from UE, who owns
the editions. The copyright renewal process is a little odd.
AL
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Guess who?
desperation_dude
> In article <berrun$in8$1...@n4vu.com>, John Miller <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > Jim Donaldson wrote:
> > > The problem here, of course, would be the immense fine for the immense
> > > copyright violation.
> >
> > For copyrighted material, yes, but surely the notes to, e.g., the trumpet
> > part to Beethoven's 5th aren't under copyright -- only various editions,
> > right? How about Mahler's 5th?
>
> One would have to locate and scan versions that are no longer under
> copyright for Beethoven's works, which is still a hard thing to do. The
> music for Beethoven seems to have dried up in all be the most recent
> "editions". And, Mahler is even worse. I want to cite part of Mahler #3
> for my dissertation. I am still waiting on permission from UE, who owns
> the editions. The copyright renewal process is a little odd.
>
> AL
Yes, it would require a certain amount of effort to get these things
up, but people have allready done it for complete scores (all the
symphonies of Beethoven, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, and others are around
on the internet), and for piano pieces (I've seen complete Beethoven
sonatas, Bach's Well Tempered Clavier, and most of the major pieces of
Chopin around), so the next step would be to provide parts - which for
players of orchestral instruments are more useful than complete scores
(for practical playing purposes).
All I have been able to find so far are the parts for the first
movement of Beethoven's 5th - a good find, but surely there most be
more available?
Dr. Trumpet, I don't know how large a section you need to cite, but if
it isn't overly large could you not simply transcribe it using a
notation program, thus leaving UE out if it entirely?
William Graham
desperation_dude <desperat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cda587ba.03071...@posting.google.com...
Why do they have to be free? Scores are not that expensive....Why not pay a
little for your music? - It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge, skill
and work to compose, arrange, and publish just a few pages of music. The
people who do this deserve to get paid for what they do. Just a few dollars
from everyone who makes use of their effort is all they need to stay in
business.
William Graham
Guess who? <brianda...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:74f77e5e.03071...@posting.google.com...
I find it easy, and instructive, to buy books full of classical piano music,
(a lot of it can be found used, in used book stores) and extract a lead
trumpet part directly from the piano music. This is cheap and you can make
the trumpet part as difficult as you want. This is the main reason why I
have always taken trumpet lessons from a good piano teacher. He/she can play
the accompaniment for me while I play the lead part on my trumpet.
Stomvi
http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/
Free orchestral scores to copy and distribute! Better than just trumpet
parts.
-Scott
trumpeter
"Stomvi" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:CkoQa.271334$jp.75...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Dr. Trumpet
desperat...@yahoo.com (desperation_dude) wrote:
> Dr. Trumpet, I don't know how large a section you need to cite, but if
> it isn't overly large could you not simply transcribe it using a
> notation program, thus leaving UE out if it entirely?
I can, but I still have to list those sections as reprinted with
permission. Any time you cite a work of music that is in print, and is
under copyright, it must be noted who owns or controls the copyright,
and so on. I felt as you do, that scholarly use of less that a certain
percentage of the total work would fall under the citation and fair use,
as long as it was properly footed. Unfortunately, Indiana University
has a different criteria, and in order to reprint any musical entry, I
must arrange to have permission of the original company. Public domain
works, even those well older than necessary, must be cited if the score
you use is in copyright, even if nothing has changed from the out of
copyright version.
IF you are absolutely certain the work is public domain, you may be able
to cite it in a dissertation without a copyright notice. Even then, the
chance that someone has a reprint edition out for many works is high,
and the likelihood of "someone's" score being in copyright is still high.
Amazing, isn't it?
Exodus
(desperation_dude) wrote:
There are some trumpet parts here :
http://joeleymard.free.fr/parts.php3#orchestre
Joel
desperation_dude
Well, I do buy music books - lots of them too. My first instrument is
piano, and I have a large and ever increasing library of books of
piano music - I also own numerous orchestral scores. Frankly, I
wouldn't even dream of printing out any of the online orchestral
scores that I have found - the cost of ink, paper, and finally binding
(can't deal with several hundred stray pages of Bruckner symphony...
heh)would approach the cost of one of those Dover editions (possibly
even exceed it.. ouch). Not worth it at all - better to pay the
professional publisher who saves me all that hassle.
But all I am looking for is JUST the trumpet part of orchestral works
(the trumpet part of the first movement of Beethoven's 5th which I did
find is only 5 pages, a quick and convenient printout) - to my
knowledge these are not even available individually? One has to buy
the whole set of orchestral parts.. I have no real use for that (not
to mention that the cost of complete parts IS going to cost me..)
William Graham
Yeah.....This is why I "arrange" my own trumpet parts by pulling them out of
piano music......What I get is not identical to the first trumpet part in an
orchestral score, of course, but it is, if anything, more difficult, and
more melodic.....So, if you can play it, then you would have no trouble
playing the first trumpet part in the real score.....
WWise72606
> > > does anyone know of any online sources of free downloadable orchestral
Why not the old-fashioned way, hand copy the trumpet parts. In Philadelphia
when I was a student and I had lots of time and not much money, I did just
that.
There were only three Bartold excerpt books and a couple of Wagner books.
The Strauss excerpts were helpful, but you see there was not much around.
Voisin had a book out of hand copied material and that was it.
I went to the Free Library of Philadelphia.and got busy.
While I was doing this work I stumbled on the Mozart trumpet concerto, but I
thought that someone was pulling a hoax.
This was in the days before Andre and even Scherbaum world-wide fame.
It is great practice and quite edifying to do it yourself.
Wilmer
Dr. Trumpet
wwise...@aol.com (WWise72606) wrote:
> While I was doing this work I stumbled on the Mozart trumpet concerto, but I
> thought that someone was pulling a hoax.
Leopold or W.A.?
WWise72606
Leopold or W.A.? >><BR><BR>
Leopold.
If I had found the W.A........
I had a friend translate his letters,that's when I became aware of the lost
W.A. Mozart trumpet concerto.
It was written for a young player.
Wilmer
Dr. Trumpet
wwise...@aol.com (WWise72606) wrote:
Awe shucks.....was hoping you had made the great discovery!
Al
Dr. Trumpet
Brian <bshe...@comcast.net> wrote:
> This kindo of begs the question of what actually serves to promote the
> progress of science and useful arts, which is the purpose of copyright
> law in the US. Would such progress be better served by making access to
> music by long-dead composers easier? I have to think so.
>
> B
I agree Brian. I agree.......
AL
William Graham
> In article <bsheller-6F2AD2...@nnrp02.earthlink.net>,
> Brian <bshe...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > This kindo of begs the question of what actually serves to promote the
> > progress of science and useful arts, which is the purpose of copyright
> > law in the US. Would such progress be better served by making access to
> > music by long-dead composers easier? I have to think so.
> >
> > B
>
> I agree Brian. I agree.......
>
> AL
Doesn't the copywrite run out 50 years after the composers death? Someone
told me that not too long ago, as I remember. I don't know if the composers
family members can renew after that or not.........
John Miller
> Doesn't the copywrite run out 50 years after the composers death? Someone
> told me that not too long ago, as I remember. I don't know if the
> composers family members can renew after that or not.........
The problem is not the copyright on the composition (which may never have
existed), it's the copyright on the edition.
Here's a business opportunity for someone: crank up Finale and make
individual instrumental parts available. Of course, you'll surely want to
copyright them...
--
John Miller
There are no manifestos like cannon and musketry.
-The Duke of Wellington
Giacomo
> William Graham wrote:
> > Doesn't the copywrite run out 50 years after the composers death? Someone
> > told me that not too long ago, as I remember. I don't know if the
> > composers family members can renew after that or not.........
>
> The problem is not the copyright on the composition (which may never have
> existed), it's the copyright on the edition.
>
> Here's a business opportunity for someone: crank up Finale and make
> individual instrumental parts available. Of course, you'll surely want to
> copyright them...
Lets take this idea one step further - how about everyone who would be
interested start transcribing the trumpet parts of different scores
and we then gather them all together on website - an "Orchestral Parts
Library"?
I am willing to transcribe the part to a symphony or two if others are
game.
Simon Richards
take this idea one step further - how about everyone who would be
> interested start transcribing the trumpet parts of different scores
> and we then gather them all together on website - an "Orchestral Parts
> Library"?
> I am willing to transcribe the part to a symphony or two if others are
> game.
So long as there are no legal issues I'm up for it. In fact I've got one I'd
could contribute already. I transcribed the 1st trumpet part of the
Saint-Saens Symphony No.3 ("Organ") because I'm playing it later in the
year. I own a few other scores (The Planets, Enigma Variations, Verdi's
Requiem) but I have't transcribed the trumpet parts (apart from the Elgar,
which I wrote out by hand).
--
Dr. Simon Richards
http://freespace.virgin.net/sd.richards
William Graham
Giacomo <j...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:a56a08d9.0307...@posting.google.com...
Count me in.....I do this all the time for myself anyway......I could make
parts for any instrument, since I know the range of all of them......
John Miller
> Count me in.....I do this all the time for myself anyway......I could make
> parts for any instrument, since I know the range of all of them......
I just downloaded Finale NotePad, so I can do some raw data entry as well --
I'll need to have some sources, though.
--
John Miller
Some performers on television appear to be horrible people, but when
you finally get to know them in person, they turn out to be even worse.
-Avery
Giacomo
Wonderful!
Yes, we should keep our efforts to works that are in the public domain
to avoid complications.
I think I might start transcribing the trumpet part for Brahms' 3rd
symphony tonight.
Another thought - it would be handy to provide convenient
transpositions as well. The Brahms is scored for trumpets in F, but I
will also make transpositions to B flat and C (for those who are not
used to transposing as they play) - using software like Finale makes
this extremely simple.
Stomvi
> to avoid complications.
> I think I might start transcribing the trumpet part for Brahms' 3rd
> symphony tonight.
Hello guys- did you miss my post? Brahms, Beethoven, Tchiak scores for
free here:
Enjoy!
-Scott
Exodus
>Lets take this idea one step further - how about everyone who would be
>interested start transcribing the trumpet parts of different scores
>and we then gather them all together on website - an "Orchestral Parts
>Library"?
>I am willing to transcribe the part to a symphony or two if others are
>game.
Good idea : I have already done some transcriptions which can be
freely downloaded from my website:
http://joeleymard.free.fr/parts.php3#orchestre
I suggest to have these parts available in PDF format, as it allows
for maximum print quality and compatibility.
Joel
Giacomo
Yes, I am familiar with that site - and it is great, lots of nice
legible scores! But we are talking about having individual parts, as
would be used by the individual musicians in the orchestra. Playing
from a 20 page (much more than that if its a large symphony or opera)
full score is not at all practical - the individual part for a 20 page
score would be along the lines of 2 to 3 pages - easily manageable on
a music stand, not to mention much clearer (might get your lines mixed
up with a full score in front of you!).
Giacomo
> William Graham wrote:
>
> > Count me in.....I do this all the time for myself anyway......I could make
> > parts for any instrument, since I know the range of all of them......
>
> I just downloaded Finale NotePad, so I can do some raw data entry as well --
> I'll need to have some sources, though.
The site that Stomvi mentions has many scores to choose from - lots of
work could be done from that site alone.
Another site with many scores (including most of the Bruckner
symphonies) is the following:
Giacomo
Great! If we all work together we can put together a truly valuable
resource for all musicians.
I had some spare time this evening and transcribed the trumpet part
for Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet - it didn't take that long either.
I still have to polish it up, but its a nice legible part fitting in
three pages.
I'll probably get started on that Brahms 3 tommorow.
Giacomo
> Count me in.....I do this all the time for myself anyway......I could make
> parts for any instrument, since I know the range of all of them......
It sounds like you may actually have some allready lying around?
Actually, it would be helpful if anyone who allready has any parts
(for any instrument) done would list them so we don't have people
making multiple copies of the same parts!
Peter H.M. Brooks
"Simon Richards" <s.ric...@physics.org> wrote in message
news:uaYQa.1468$0g3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
>
>
>
been dealt with by the Open Source movement. I am not a lawyer, but my
understanding of the situation is:
- Anything that you write, or record, is copyright to you.
- You can assign copyright to somebody else (usually for a fee).
- Your copyright expires a fixed period (usually around 50 years depending
on the local laws) after your death.
- You can also give up your copyright - that is put something freely in the
public domain.
There are some problems with putting things in the public domain free, at
least without a few precautions. These are:
- If you, say, produce a score and put a note at the bottom saying, 'free of
copyright, Joe Bloggs 2003' then somebody else can take your work and put it
in a book without attribution to you and then sell it for money. You may be
happy with this, but many people are not!
- You could say, 'This piece is covered by the Free Software Foundation
[FSF] Open Source licence, Joe Bloggs 2003'. There are a number of
contracts, mainly for software but they should work without too much
amendment, that put things in the public domain with restrictions. These
vary, you can write your own one (search for 'open license' on Google and
you should be able to see the sort of thing).
- The sort of things you can rule in or out in your license neet to take
care of what you think of the following scenarios:
- Do you mind if anybody copies your score, modifies it, then posts it on as
their work - without mentioning that they got it from you? If yes, say that
all copies must include an attribution to you.
- Do you mind if somebody performs it free? Mainly, probably not, in which
case say that public performances (even for a fee) are allowed.
- Do you mind if somebody records their performance and sells it as a CD?
Probably not, but, if you do, then include a clause to exclude it or require
a fee negotiation in this case. You might want to have a limit, educational
sales of <5,000 CDs no problem, commercial sales of more than that require a
fee.
- Do you mind if somebody records their performance and posts it free on the
internet? As above.
- Do you mind if somebody includes it in a film or major show that grosses
$500M, mentions you in the titles, as you require above, but pays you
nothing? You might feel a little different about that. If so, then you can
add a line saying that for such commercial use (you could say, for example,
where sales of recordings or public performances of recordings are likely to
exceed 10,000, as above), then a fee negotiation is required.
If you have thought of all the above, and are still happy, then you can just
do the first thing - 'free of copyright, Joe Bloggs 2003'.
Incidentally, all postings, like this one, to usenet are also copyright.
That doesn't mean that nothing can be done with them. You can quote one in
context, giving attributions (which is how usual usenet conversation goes),
but, if you wanted to publish one in a book, then you'd have to contact the
author about a fee.
I didn't mean to put a wet blanket on this proposal. I think it is a
brilliant idea - I am a great supporter of free software, linux and the rest
and also of the Gutenberg Project (a huge project that takes books that are
out of copyright and publishes them free on the internet - you can get all
of Shakespeare, the Bible, and many, many top authors from Gotenberg). This
would be something of similar value to the world - huge, in other words!
It might be worth contacting the Free Software Foundation, or Gutenberg to
see if they have any funds to help with a music project. It might fit within
their charter. They might be able to help draw up a Free Music License that
takes care of the issues I raise above (and the other ones!). They might be
able to provide technical advice about indexing, presentation formats and so
forth. They might be able to help with server space.
Just my thoughts!
--
Yes, Peter was always an anarchist - he was an anarchist from the day he was
born - RCB, Harbour House, Cape Town 12th July 2003
William Graham
done in a couple of days.....My scores are done in Encore, but it's
importable to Finale, so it won't be a problem......
Giacomo <j...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:a56a08d9.03071...@posting.google.com...
William Graham
Yes.....I'll put together an inventory of what I've got.......
Giacomo
Good stuff, looking forward to seeing it.
I wrote out the trumpet part for the 1st movement of Brahms' 3rd on
the weekend, and will do the rest soon (hope that isn't on your list!)
I notice no new messages on this thread - has interest died out so
soon?
Giacomo
Good idea, I agree that PDF makes things much simpler and more
convenient.
I took a look at your site, a nice list parts!
You don't happen to still have your notation software file to make
transposed versions in B flat and C? (good for the transpositionally
impaired)
William Graham
down in California......Just got back today.......
Giacomo <j...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:a56a08d9.03072...@posting.google.com...
Dr. Trumpet
"Stomvi" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Here:
>
> http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/
>
> http://www.bh2000.net/score/
>
> Free orchestral scores to copy and distribute! Better than just trumpet
> parts.
>
> -Scott
Thanks for these links. Anyone figured out how to get the ones at IU to
load without spending a week waiting?
The second link is awesome!
SRabin2963
sr
hollywood fl
William F. Dishman
> Exodus <joel....@machin.fr> wrote in message news:<ndp9hv8kgb8ul1s1v...@4ax.com>...
> > On 15 Jul 2003 11:16:02 -0700, j...@mailcity.com (Giacomo) wrote:
> >
> > >Lets take this idea one step further - how about everyone who would be
> > >interested start transcribing the trumpet parts of different scores
> > >and we then gather them all together on website - an "Orchestral Parts
> > >Library"?
This sounds fine and good and I truly believe there is great benefit
to manually transcribing parts for yourself as a learning
experience...but...Just a brief look in the Robert King Catalogue
yields a whole section of individual 1st trumpet parts already to play
from. They can be ordered from Robert King or through a local music
store. Florida Music Service in Tampa usually has several in stock at
any given time. The much of the standard literature is in ththe
catalgue as being available. I have all the Beethoven Symphonies,
Brahms, Dvorak, Mahler etc.
One statement in this thread bothered me a little... something to do
with the advantage of the iindividual part vs. the complete score.
If one want to learn the notes, the part is fine.....to learn the
music....the score is essential.
Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida
Red von Dutch
> Hello,
> does anyone know of any online sources of free downloadable orchestral
> parts (most importantly the trumpet part of course)?
> I have searched and searched, but there does not seem to be much up...
> There are a couple of sites that have a nice selection of complete
> scores, but not the individual parts... I'd think that a nice online
> collection of parts would be of immense use for musicians of all
> orchestral instruments. Are there any out there?
>
> Thanks
Here's an old, but really neat idea: why not try your local public
Library? Those old buildings have some really cool stuff hidden away -
if you can find it!
ALso try local college libraries and their music department libraries.
My city has about 8 libraries and one is dedicated to the arts. They
have shelves of musical scores (even some current stuff), even CDs and
videos that you can check out (I even spent a couple of hours watching
the entire performance of Miestersinger on VHS - sure better than
listening to the dang record as I got to see just what was going on!).
I don't think it would be bad to make a copy of a score for your own
use but might draw the line at distributing online myself.
Another thing might be to see if your school has a link to places like
Columbia or UCLA or a place like that - most good colleges have
excellent online resources via their libraries. Hey, might even try
the Library of Congress!
For those of us who are not associated with a school, go make friends
with the local public librarian: they are overworked and
underappreciated and will enjoy the chance of helping someone who shows
interest in their KNOWLEDGE and not just trying to use them for what
you can get. Some are really cute too (added side benefit) - but don't
overlook the spinster who is dying for some attention.
Good luck!
Drum & Bugle Corps:aka Beat& Blow Boys
William Graham
"Red von Dutch" <carro...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:tAqkb.2495$np1....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
It is also relatively easy to play the top line of piano music.....IOW, the
top line on a piano score is usually the melody part, and makes a great
trumpet score. You can find tons of old piano music in any second hand
bookstore.....If you want to play along with someone playing the rest of the
parts on the piano, then you must either learn to transpose, or buy a C
trumpet.......
Simon Richards
> My city has about 8 libraries and one is dedicated to the arts. They
> have shelves of musical scores (even some current stuff), even CDs and
> videos that you can check out (I even spent a couple of hours watching
> the entire performance of Miestersinger on VHS - sure better than
> listening to the dang record as I got to see just what was going on!).
Surely an entire performance of Die Meistersinger is a heck of lot longer
than 2 hours - more like 5 or 6?
Tommy T.
the time spent in an actual performance including intermissions.
Solti's recording at 252 minutes (4 cd's) has been criticized as rushed in
places.
Tommy T.
"Simon Richards" <s.ric...@physics.org> wrote > Surely an entire
Simon Richards
> 2 hours is definitely on the short side while 5 to 6 hours is more like
> that the time spent in an actual performance including intermissions.
Ah yes, of course, I forgot about the intervals.
Peter Bond
When we play Die Meistersinger (Met Opera), the curtain goes up at 6
and comes down after Act III just before midnight. Same story for
Gottedammerung, and Les Troyens (Berlioz).
Peter Bond