What kind of synths are used in Goa Trance?
Evolve or Perish
In article <35871F10...@uiuc.edu>,
David Simmons <dhsi...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>I don't understand people's obsession with owning everything everybody
>else uses. You don't NEED an sh101 or a 303, just ANYTHING with a harsh,
>mean sound.
I believe that was my point. I don't have a single Roland synth, and
have no intentions of ever having one. All you really need is a sound
you like and fast envelopes. The Waldorf Pulse can sound like a 101 or
a 303 quite easily, it's a modern MIDI instrument, and it's got a vast
range of other sounds. Not to mention a 1.9 millisecond attack curve.
>IMHO the key to this is effects--stomp boxes in particular.
This is an important point. Most of this stuff not only makes heavy
use of effects for each instrument, but also features very subtle
whole-program effects. I haven't quite figured out what they're doing
to those Spacetribe mixes yet, but I'm fairly certain it's lurking in
my Quadraverb, waiting to be discovered.
I'd have to disagree with you on the stomp boxes, though. They're
noisy, limited, and noisy. And expensive. For a little over the price
of two new stomp boxes you could pick up a new Midiverb 4. Sure, it's
not a Lexicon, but it very versatile, easy to use, controllable via
MIDI, and much quieter than a stomp box.
b r e t t
Stephen Philips
acla...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I am heavily into psychedelic trance and i would like to know what synths Goa
> artists are using? Astral Projection, MFG, Phreaky, they all make the sort
> of music that I would like to create. Do you have any idea what Equipment they
> use? I know that the Roland SH-101 is popular among trace artists but what do
> they use more?
>
> Anders
Well that varies widely depending on who your're talking about. The Roland Sh-101
is good as well as a TB-303 if you can find it. The acid basslines are essential
with Goa stuff. You'd also want a TR-808 or TR-909 for your beats. Most of this
equipment is hard to find but most of the current Roland stuff is good and stuff
like the MC-303 and MC-505 have done a pretty decent job of emulating the 808's
and 909's of the past.
Stephen Philips
Dark Duck Records
------------------> http://www.dclink.com/darkduck
Tom Brady
Evolve or Perish wrote:
I'd have to agree, I'd buy an effects processor over Stomp Boxes. If I was
really concerned about one particular effect and the processor I had didn't
have as much control over it as I wished, I'd probably buy a stomp box for
that certain effect, but a bunch of stomp boxes is not the way to go.
Richard Mitton
>
> I'd have to agree, I'd buy an effects processor over Stomp Boxes. If I
was
> really concerned about one particular effect and the processor I had
didn't
> have as much control over it as I wished, I'd probably buy a stomp box
for
> that certain effect, but a bunch of stomp boxes is not the way to go.
>
>
Unless you decide you want to be the next Chemical Brothers!
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Tom Brady <tbr...@winternet.com> wrote in article
<35889C54...@winternet.com>...
Richard Mitton
DarkRaver <no_sp...@usa.net> wrote in article
>
> What have I got? Korg T1 digital synth, Digitech Studio Quad fx
> processor, Soundblaster AWE 64 Gold sampler/sound card, GigaSampler
> software sampler,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How are you finding this? Is it as good as it sounds? I was going to get
an A3000, but after reading a bit about GigaSampler may well change my
mind.........
Lucien Peter
David Simmons <dhsi...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > Rage on,
> >
> > b r e t t
> I don't understand people's obsession with owning everything everybody
> else uses. You don't NEED an sh101 or a 303, just ANYTHING with a harsh,
> mean sound. IMHO the key to this is effects--stomp boxes in particular.
> What's more with the now escalating prices for sh101s and junos, it
> makes more sense to just use a competent synth module or such w/ good
> filters and at least 4 outputs. . .
Yep, why always use what all the others do? I mean, I could imagine,
that if you are very motivated, you can even with a cs1x (haha) produce
some kind of music which could sound good (under c., perhaps, why not).
No fun, gear is good if it sounds good and you can program it. But lot
of people have best gear and cant do anything with it (greetings to Liam
of prodigy for his phrase about the prophecy!).
Another thing is that it makes not much sense if you decide to start
making music and asking q. like this because when you buy a 1500$ tb-303
and then realize that you don't can do anything with its sound it could
be boring (this happened to me with the cs1x, I learned with it near
anything about sysex, NRNP and so on, but I couldn't find the sounds I
need, now I know "never buy a rompler anymore"!) With one of the actual
vitual-analog synths you can do a lot, even if it sounds not always
totally like the old machine you wanted to reproduce (with the modular
you come always near if you take the time).
And if you want to have midi-implementation, then you have to upgrade
those old machines (if possible) and this coasts also a lot. If you need
real analog, there are plenty of cheap 2nd hand instruments, and in the
near future there will be some new real analog synths on the market (for
ex. the new jomox).
Bye
Lucien
Lucien Peter
Stephen Philips <dark...@dclink.com> wrote:
> equipment is hard to find but most of the current Roland stuff is good and
> stuff like the MC-303 and MC-505 have done a pretty decent job of
> emulating the 808's and 909's of the past.
>
> Stephen Philips Dark Duck Records ------------------>
> http://www.dclink.com/darkduck
If you think that this is true... then it is still better to buy a
sampler. I own a 909-clone (jomox) and I had an mc303. It's no need to
say that you cant compare such a drummachine with a rompler like the
mc303 with its lame filters wich are miles from anything (even the cs1x
has better ones); but for drums you dont need them much. For me, the
mc303 was the most disapointing gear I ever had, the keys dont react
enough fast while seq.programing and it is horrible to handle for the
sound it gives. I mean I dont need a superinterface, but when I waste my
time for something what is unable to do what I need, I dont have much
fun to learn it.
Sorry, dont feel bothered, I believe you, that you can use the mc303,
but "emulating" something is more than playing a sample (in my language
it is so, but I dont know much yours).
Bye
Lucien
DarkRaver
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:31:31 +0200, lucie...@swix.ch (Lucien Peter)
wrote:
>Stephen Philips <dark...@dclink.com> wrote:
>
>> equipment is hard to find but most of the current Roland stuff is good and
>> stuff like the MC-303 and MC-505 have done a pretty decent job of
>> emulating the 808's and 909's of the past.
>>
>> Stephen Philips Dark Duck Records ------------------>
>> http://www.dclink.com/darkduck
>
>If you think that this is true... then it is still better to buy a
>sampler. I own a 909-clone (jomox) and I had an mc303. It's no need to
>say that you cant compare such a drummachine with a rompler like the
>mc303 with its lame filters wich are miles from anything (even the cs1x
>has better ones); but for drums you dont need them much. For me, the
>mc303 was the most disapointing gear I ever had, the keys dont react
>enough fast while seq.programing and it is horrible to handle for the
>sound it gives. I mean I dont need a superinterface, but when I waste my
>time for something what is unable to do what I need, I dont have much
>fun to learn it.
I own the MC 303 as well, anb here's my $.02. I produce goa, trance
and techno on an almost completely virtual setup: GigaSampler,
Reality, ReBirth, RubberDuck, Digital Thunder and VAZ+ are all
softsynths/samplers that run on my PC alongside Cubase VST (with the
Waldorf D-Pole plugin and Opcode: Fusion Filter). While on its own the
MC303 definitely is not great, where it excels is in the mix. All the
sounds are boring, drab etc. on their own, or even in a sequence on
the MC303 itself, but the drums, basses and pads blend perfectly into
a mix. Leads is a different story - they're just not there. So I use
my MC303 in soundmodule mode and add filtering etc. in VST. Great
results (though no record deal yet...)
DarkRAver
DarkRaver
On 18 Jun 1998 13:42:56 GMT, "Richard Mitton"
<gar...@NOSPAM.geocities.com> wrote:
>DarkRaver <no_sp...@usa.net> wrote in article
>>
>> What have I got? Korg T1 digital synth, Digitech Studio Quad fx
>> processor, Soundblaster AWE 64 Gold sampler/sound card, GigaSampler
>> software sampler,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>How are you finding this? Is it as good as it sounds? I was going to get
>an A3000, but after reading a bit about GigaSampler may well change my
>mind.........
See the other GigaSampler threats. In a nutshell, it's great! Much
better than I expected...
DarkRaver
David Simmons
Tom Brady wrote:
>
> Evolve or Perish wrote:
>
> > In article <35871F10...@uiuc.edu>,
> > David Simmons <dhsi...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
> >
> > >else uses. You don't NEED an sh101 or a 303, just ANYTHING with a harsh,
> > >mean sound.
> >
> > have no intentions of ever having one. All you really need is a sound
> > you like and fast envelopes. The Waldorf Pulse can sound like a 101 or
> > a 303 quite easily, it's a modern MIDI instrument, and it's got a vast
> > range of other sounds. Not to mention a 1.9 millisecond attack curve.
> >
> >
> > use of effects for each instrument, but also features very subtle
> > whole-program effects. I haven't quite figured out what they're doing
> > to those Spacetribe mixes yet, but I'm fairly certain it's lurking in
> > my Quadraverb, waiting to be discovered.
> >
> > I'd have to disagree with you on the stomp boxes, though. They're
> > noisy, limited, and noisy. And expensive. For a little over the price
> > of two new stomp boxes you could pick up a new Midiverb 4. Sure, it's
> > not a Lexicon, but it very versatile, easy to use, controllable via
> > MIDI, and much quieter than a stomp box.
> >
>
> really concerned about one particular effect and the processor I had didn't
> have as much control over it as I wished, I'd probably buy a stomp box for
> that certain effect, but a bunch of stomp boxes is not the way to go.
It appears I was not very clear in my original post: IMHO stomp boxes
are a very useful tool for sound creation and manipulation i.e. "that
certain effect." However, without a reasonably well-equipped
reverb/delay box, they are only somewhat useful for this purpose. But a
basic reverb/delay (I own a Lexicon Reflex) simply is not capable of
giving sounds the warmth and, for lack of a better word, power that a
stomp box can. In other words, buy a reverb/delay machine first, then
buy a couple of stomp boxes as needed to give your sounds extra pizazz.
Josh
People dont fool yourselves, Goa needs analog, ie: roland sh-101, tb-303, waldorf
plus, Novation Bass Station, tr-909, tr-606, Setups with things like that just
plain sound better.
RexBo
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998 19:10:47 -0500, Josh <fr...@flash.net> wrote:
>People dont fool yourselves, Goa needs analog, ie: roland sh-101, tb-303, waldorf
>plus, Novation Bass Station, tr-909, tr-606, Setups with things like that just
>plain sound better.
>
I agree not to build an entire track with machines like an MC303. But
you are fooling yourself as well if you think that you NEED old analog
stuff to make this happen: there is little reason anymore to stick
with vintage analog instead of modern analog and analog-modelling
synths like the Nord Lead II, Modular, Microwave etc. etc. except if
you want to buy equipment and inflated prices and you like the analog
side-effects, like limited or no MIDI support, detuning problems,
difficult maintenance etc. If you like the sound of a modern synth use
it. If you have to stick with that 'warm analogue' sound my opinion is
that with a few exceptions you are kidding yourself. I would rather
have a 16-voice four-part multitimbral fully MIDI controlled Nord
Modular than an original analog machine for my money... ;-)
RexBo
Josh Meredith
I agree that not EVERYTHING has to be analog, but only those how have heard and
played with those things really know the difference, and there is a difference that
wont be understood unless the expierence is there. I'm sorry if analog sound has
made a beliver in me. Roland resonance has made a big impact on Goa music, mostly
becuase it sounds so psychedelic.
But other synths have wonderful qualities for trance music. The Korg z1 being one
and being digital too. IF you get extensivly into the programing of it you can make
the most wacked-out trancy sounds. Not to mention the built in effects processor is
great too, also the x/z controler for the sweeps.
But trance now is more deverse and Goa trance doesnt even come from Goa India
anymore. So is it really Goa? or are we all just tring to find an easier way to
spell psychedelic?
David Simmons wrote:
> Tom Brady wrote:
> >
> > Evolve or Perish wrote:
> >
> > > In article <35871F10...@uiuc.edu>,
> > > David Simmons <dhsi...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I don't understand people's obsession with owning everything everybody
> > > >else uses. You don't NEED an sh101 or a 303, just ANYTHING with a harsh,
> > > >mean sound.
> > >
> > > I believe that was my point. I don't have a single Roland synth, and
> > > have no intentions of ever having one. All you really need is a sound
> > > you like and fast envelopes. The Waldorf Pulse can sound like a 101 or
> > > a 303 quite easily, it's a modern MIDI instrument, and it's got a vast
> > > range of other sounds. Not to mention a 1.9 millisecond attack curve.
> > >
> > > >
--
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http://www.flash.net/~frop /
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Sebastian Nyberg
You cannot go wrong with a Roland JV-1080, or even better, the JV-2080,
which has more effect processors. Add the vintage and techno
expansion boards and you've got more waveforms than you'll know what to
do with. Later on, you'll probably want to get some kind of analog
or virtual analog synth and an effects processor for those goa-specific
basslines. On the other hand, you'll be very happy with a JV-1080 or
2080 for a long time.
Seb
Evolve or Perish
In article <baseman....@snakemail.hut.fi>,
Sebastian Nyberg <bas...@alpha.hut.fi> wrote:
>You cannot go wrong with a Roland JV-1080, or even better, the JV-2080,
>which has more effect processors. Add the vintage and techno
>expansion boards and you've got more waveforms than you'll know what to
>do with.
I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with this. Part of the
backbone of this type of music is that the sounds are constantly
'morphing.' I'm listening to an Infinity Project track right now,
and I can hear hands on the knobs for cutoff, pulsewidth, and
decay time. A ROM-playback type of instrument might have a jillion
sounds, but even the simplest analogue with knobs is going to
give you more control over the sound in real time.
The reason for the popularity of the SH-101 isn't its sound or
varsatility. It's the fact that all the parameters that really shape
your timbre are right there under your fingertips. That and the step
sequencer, of course.
I really think someone looking to get into making trance would be
better off even with something as simple as a Juno 6 rather than a
fancy rompler. I'm not an analogue purist, but real-time control
is essential. I think a Prophesy might be an ideal tool for trance
as well - all those wheels and whatnot.
Rob Hoffman
While I do agree that realtime control is essential in all music not
just Goa, I don't think one should limit themselves because you might be
missing a knob. I regularly assign parameters like filter cutoff and
resonance, pulsewidth, etc. to mod wheel or CV pedal and ride it that
way on synths like the JV-1080 and Trinity. Also if you have a Studio 5
MIDI interface you get two extra control inputs (for pedals) and of
course boxes like the Doepfer Regalwerx and Peavey PC-1600 can aid in
the process.
Tom Brady
Evolve or Perish wrote:
> In article <baseman....@snakemail.hut.fi>,
> Sebastian Nyberg <bas...@alpha.hut.fi> wrote:
>
> >You cannot go wrong with a Roland JV-1080, or even better, the JV-2080,
> >which has more effect processors. Add the vintage and techno
> >expansion boards and you've got more waveforms than you'll know what to
> >do with.
>
> I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with this. Part of the
> backbone of this type of music is that the sounds are constantly
> 'morphing.' I'm listening to an Infinity Project track right now,
> and I can hear hands on the knobs for cutoff, pulsewidth, and
> decay time. A ROM-playback type of instrument might have a jillion
> sounds, but even the simplest analogue with knobs is going to
> give you more control over the sound in real time.
>
> The reason for the popularity of the SH-101 isn't its sound or
> varsatility. It's the fact that all the parameters that really shape
> your timbre are right there under your fingertips. That and the step
> sequencer, of course.
>
> I really think someone looking to get into making trance would be
> better off even with something as simple as a Juno 6 rather than a
> fancy rompler. I'm not an analogue purist, but real-time control
> is essential. I think a Prophesy might be an ideal tool for trance
> as well - all those wheels and whatnot.
>
> b r e t t
I don't listen to a lot of trance, or goa trance. Mostly techno/house,
but I gotta say, HE IS RIGHT! About the Juno6. I have a Juno6, i bought it
knowing very little about analogues and i gotta say, it is the absolute
best. A slider for EVERYTHING! You can change any parameter of the sound
so quickly and accurately it is amazing! I still come up with new sounds I
didn't think I could get after a year, and this is a simple analogue,
imagine if you had a Jupiter. If your gonna get something to play back
samples or a rompler or whatever you wanna call it, save some money and buy
a JX-305 or something. Something techno/trance oriented. It's got knobs
and a great sequencer. But get around to getting a Juno... 106 or 60 if you
like MIDI (you can get a DCB~>MIDI for the 60) they're fun!
Matt Brady
Sebastian Nyberg
>Evolve or Perish wrote:
>> I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with this. Part of the
>> backbone of this type of music is that the sounds are constantly
>> 'morphing.' I'm listening to an Infinity Project track right now,
>> and I can hear hands on the knobs for cutoff, pulsewidth, and
>> decay time. A ROM-playback type of instrument might have a jillion
>> sounds, but even the simplest analogue with knobs is going to
>> give you more control over the sound in real time.
On the JV1080, you can program the sounds and effect processors to
respond to several different midi controllers. Filter cutoff, resonance,
LFO1 and LFO2 modulation depth... add to this up to four different
waves per patch, all controllable by different controllers and you
certainly get evolving sounds. Granted, it demands more effort programming
these sounds than with an analog synth with knobs, but you can still
get excellent results.
The JV1080 offers me a lot more real time control over my sounds than
my Cheetah MS6 or JW-8000 did. Add to this the frequency cross modulation
and ring modulation possibilities of the JV-1080 and you've got a synth
capable of a vast range of sounds, highly controllable live with midi
controllers.
I don't regret throwing out my three analog synths (well, they did have
digital oscs but the filters were analog) and getting a JV1080 instead.
I admit that I miss the analog sounds, but the JV1080 just happen to
be sooo versatile. Digital workstations aren't static sounding sample
playback beasts any more, they are capable of very flexible, modulating
sounds.
It's a bit misleading to tell people to get a monotimbral analog synth
instead of a digital workstation, as goa tracks are very often packed with
a lot of different sounds playing at the same time. You'll have to get a
whole lot of analog synths to cover all of these.
I understand what you're saying though. I know the JV1080 comes knowhere close
to an analog synth when it comes to those "blurby" analog sounds that are used
so often in goa.
But, as I said in my previous article, a combination of a JV1080/2080 and
an analog synth would be a very good setup for goa.
Summing it up: sure, a JV1080 doesn't sound as analog as a snappy analog synth,
but it does a lot more than that and is capable of Tangerine Dreamish strings,
rich, spacey, evolving pads, blurbs, bleeps, squelchy acid, noise... and
all at the same time.
Sebastian