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Digital Piano FAQ (tentative) [LONG]

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Michel Goudeseune

unread,

May 18, 1993, 5:11:39 PM5/18/93

I wrote:

>I'm not willing to maintain an FAQ, *but*: I have a 34k file of comments
>about digital pianos. I will forward this to whoever in netland wants to
>put together the FAQ. If you're interested in doing this, send me email
>in addition to posting, to get the file from me.

I have gotten several requests for the file, but my email limit is
finite. Thus, here it is. I hope someone transforms this into a more
palatable form such as an FAQ.

Michel

------------------- cut here ---------------------

rec.music.makers.synth #1879
From: dha...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (David Harker)
Subject: Summary of 'best digital piano' info
Date: Thu Feb 11 15:48:59 EST 1993
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those
of IBM
Nntp-Posting-Host: clifton.rchland.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, in sunny Rochester MN
Keywords: digital piano, weighted controllers
Lines: 476

A few weeks ago I asked for info on digital pianos.
Here are all the replies, some of which were e-mail and
some posted here. Thanks for all the input! I will
be heading to Minneapolis soon for some extended
shopping...

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 19:33:55 -0600 (CST)
From: ERCO...@UIMRL3.MRL.UIUC.EDU (furio ercolessi)
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')
To: dha...@vnet.ibm.com

If I were you, with the above requirements I would go for a
two units setup: mother keyboard + tone module, $2K for
the first and $1K for the second. It's far more flexible,
and in the future you can expand/improve the sound generation
part at little cost.

The best mother keyboard at present seems to be the Peavey
DPMC8: everybody says it's great. I do not have a personal
experience. It has action with hammers. It's also MIDIwise
very powerful.
Then there are the classics, the old Yamaha KX-88, the Roland
A-80, etc.

For tone modules, I think you can try the E-mu Proteus, the
Roland Sound Canvas, the Ensoniq SQ-R, whatever, and
pickup the one with the piano sound(s) you like most.

|>Do any synths have the piano action I am looking for?
|>In particular, I'd like to hear from users of the FP-8,
|>and those who play acoustic piano and like the "piano"
|>feel/action of a particular keyboard/synth.
|>Sound is secondary, since I can upgrade w/ add-on boxes.

I also play piano and was specifically looking for piano action.
I bought an Ensoniq KS-32, which is "almost" what you want.
It has 76 keys, with a good action, however there are no
hammers so that it is not as piano-like as true mother keyboards.
I like the piano sounds, there are a few of them, and the synth
engine allows a certain latitude in modifying them.
Try it ... it would save you about 1K$.

furio
--
furio ercolessi <fu...@uiuc.edu>* <fu...@sissa.it>+
* materials research lab, uni illinois at urbana-champaign
+ intl school for advanced studies, trieste, italy

"Change nothing and continue with immaculate consistency"
[ Brian Eno, "Oblique Strategies" ]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1993 03:13:13 PST
Subject: Re:Electric Piano opinions (long-ish)
To: dha...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
Reply-To: GRC....@rx.xerox.com

Dave,

Don't know if this will get to you - my net access is a little tenuous from
here - perhaps you could just drop me a quick confirmation if it does reach
you. The following text was posted to someone with a similar request to yours
recently.

There have been a couple of requests for input on 88-key weighted action
keyboards / digital pianos, so I thought I'd pitch in a couple of pennies /
cents / ECUs on my new toy.

I've just started taking piano lessons again after more years than I care to
admit, and my trusty DX7-II just didn't cut it for this - for all the obvious
reasons. I was also getting tired of all the little boxes, speakers, cables,
etc. cluttering up the living room. So I started looking at digital pianos
with built-in amplifiers and speakers.

Requirements were "proper" piano keyboard, good sampled grand, good upright /
rock piano, Rhodes-ish and DX7-ish e-pianos, built-in reverb / chorus / etc.,
decent MIDI implementation and clean visual lines (yes - I like my technology
to look good as well . . . ). Budget was set at 1500 pounds sterling.

I looked at Yamaha Clavinovas, Roland HP series and their stage piano, and
Technics ranges mostly, and read all the reviews / specs. The shortlist was
all Yamaha - CLP123 (CLP124 nice but too expensive), a CLP760 (previous range
version of CLP124 at reduced price) and the PF-P100. The CLPs are clearly
aimed at the domestic market in terms of wooden veneered cabinets, sliding key
covers, etc. The PF is Yamaha's new professional stage piano and looks like a
long synth - all black (apart from the white notes of course . . . ) with red
LED and button indicators.

In the end, I went for the PF, with its proper stand (it looks crap on a synth
stand and wobbles), and I'm really pleased with it. Ten voices - great stereo
grand piano - really sparkles, slightly brighter "rock" piano - good for
cutting through mixes (so the blurb says), brilliant Rhodes and DX7 e-pianos,
Clavinova special, strings (which work well across the entire keyboard), vibes
(excellent attack - you can hear the thingies being hit), very useable jazz
organ, upright and electric bases. Reminds me of an updated RD1000 (but
lighter !).

Nice keyboard (weighted but very smooth - better than the CLPs in my opinion),
plus pitch / mod wheels. 20+20 watt stereo amp and speakers - quite sufficient
for domestic use. Onboard DSP reverb (Room, Stage, Hall - all variable
depth)), effects (Chorus, Symphonic, Tremolo - all variable depth) and
three-band equaliser (good for bringing in some bottom end punch or mellowing
the rock piano a little). Voice layering or split, detune, transpose.
Changeable velocity parameters plus a few others. Effectively bi-timbral with
up to 32-note polyphony (16 for stereo grand and some of the other voices).
Good enough MIDI (in / out / thru, program change messages, data entry slider
etc.) but not multiple keyboard zones / channels (just two). Comes with
sustain pedal and has jacks for optional soft and sostenuto (sp ?) plus foot
controller. Stereo line out and line in (no mixer needed for the expander -
whoopee !) and headphone jacks.

And it looks cool, particularly on its stand (it's rock solid) - so much so
that she-who-must-be-obeyed is more than happy with it in the living room (on
the grounds that it looks nicer than the succession of D20, D50, M1, DX7-II,
Midiverb, RA50, RA90, WS2, amplifiers, mixers and assorted cables that have
previously occupied the same spot) and has decided to try her hand at it as
well. Definite brownie points ! On the looks / functionality side as well -
it has a removeable music stand and a flat top - ideal for small drum machines
or expanders (Yamaha recommend their TG100 of course) and the inevitable
non-musical accessories (mine's aquired a small plant and a photograph of her
and me so far).

Only minus points so far are it's not light - you can't tuck it under your arm
like a synth, and the mod wheel is vicious on internal voices (effect rate is
not changeable).

The list price here in the UK is 1599 pounds sterling, going up to 1799 on
February 1st according to my dealer. It'll probaby be the same number of
dollars in the US. I rang around for prices - they were all about the same -
I paid 1399 pounds plus 99 for the stand, with 3 years parts and labour
guarantee. I could probably have got a bit more off, especially for cash, but
the dealer I got it from is good and lets me borrow the odd keyboard or module
to try at home from time to time, so I'm not about to screw him for a few quid.
I know I could have got a new full-blown synth for the same money but the PF's
voices are exactly the sort that I use most (my aspirations are towards jazz /
blues) and I'm not heavily into programming - tweaking factory or third-party
presets is about my limit (and I can always attack the DX7-II if the urge gets
me). I'll get a module for some pads and "breathy" sounds to layer sometime
and that'll do me.

Well - it's a bit longer than I anticipated but maybe you'll get something out
of it. Guess I'd better learn to play it properly now !

Have a good one.

Graeme Cree
Rank Xerox Limited
Marlow
UK

-----------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 11:04:49 PST
From: Ed.Fle...@Corp.Sun.COM (Ed.Fle...@Corp.Sun.COM)
To: dha...@vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...

See if you can play an used Kurzweil K1200. best piano sound + many other
instuments. You need to try the keyboard though.

Ed Fleschute Sun Microsystems Computer Corp. Work: (415)336-3753

------------------------------------------------------

From: d...@mozart.ESL.COM (Denis Lynch)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 12:46:51
To: dha...@vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')

I think that the Yamaha Clavinova series uses more modern synthesis
techniques than the FP-8, with better sonic results. The actions are
pretty much the same -- i.e. they are quite nice, but still enough
different from real pianos that the differences between them aren't
significant to me.

Anyway -- the reason for this note is to make sure you know about the
Yamaha piano school. If you are (or have) a student in the school,
Yamaha dealers can give you a big (like 40%) discount on Calvinovas.
This puts pretty much the whole line in your price range! The
lowest-end unit I know of is a 76-key one with discounted price about
$1500, complete with bench, music rack, cover etc.

I'm told that you can even just tell the dealers that you (or a handy
kid) are planning in enrolling in the school after you get the piano.
Since a semester's tuition is only about $250, it would be a good
investment even if you never showed up for a lesson!

--Denis Lynch, ESL Inc.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: ji...@palouse.wv.tek.com (Jim Thomassen)
To: "David Harker" <dha...@vnet.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: more info
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 93 15:23:54 PST

Thank you for your forward's. It sounds like several of us want a good piano
feel with good piano sound but eh advantage of midi. I have a Yamaha Grand
(5'1") that I would like to get close to in feel. The Fatar was ok, the DPMC8
was good, but spendy ($1750 or so). I wanted to get the DPMC8 for about $1000,
or something like it.

Let me know if you make a decision.

thanks again

jimth

--------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 16:33
From: Shahen Petrosian <sha...@prodnet.la.locus.com>
To: dha...@vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth

I was quoted a little under $1900 (before tax) when I was
shopping around for exactly what you are looking for 6 months
ago. I also liked the feel of the keyboard although it's kind
of bouncy (not very piano-ish). After giving the Emu Proteus
a test drive the FP8's sound started sounding thin to me.
I finally settled for Emu Proteus/1 (plus a reverb unit because it
needs one badly). I'm using a Yamaha KX88
for a controller (I like the feel, but these things are subjective).

>Sound is secondary, since I can upgrade w/ add-on boxes.

Well the FP8 is not a very good controller. To use it just as
a controller later would be somewhat of a waste of money (remember
that you are paying for keyboard, sounds, amp and speakers).
Besides, a good sound box and effects could cost a lot of money.

You might want to look at various 88 key weighted controllers
a little more before making up your mind.

Good Luck!

-----------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1993 17:48:13 PST
From: ada...@gtewd.mtv.gsc.gte.com
To: dha...@vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')

I have purchased the FP-8 twice. And returned it twice....The thing sounds
GREAT in the store (although not through those little built in speakers),
but after you live with it for awhile,...

For me, the piano sound is the most expressive of any box I've ever played.
That is, when you play soft, you hear a piano being played softly, not hard
hammer strikes turned down to a low playback volume. And when you beat on it,
it sounds like a piano being played loud! I'm not quite sure what to make of
the "structured adaptive" business... I don't know if it's strictly a sample
playback machine, or if in fact it's more sophisticated. One salesman told
me he thought it sounded like the U220...

But after several days, the piano just doesn't sound quite right in the mid
to hi range... too thin and un-natural for me. This is, of course, quite
subjective... The final straw was when I was doing some recording with a
friend, and I started to do a take on a track and he stopped me and asked me
whether I had a piano patch up, or some synthesized patch...!!! bummer!!!!

Also, it's low on polyphony. It has a (IMHO) KILLER electric piano sound,
but when you layer it with the acoustic, you get note stealing galore!!! My
guess is that the EP sound uses two voices per note, not just one, which
makes 3 voices per note (2 for EP, 1 for acoustic) or just 8ish note poly-
phonic... You may not care about this.

Also, if you play really fast, you can hang up the action. I was managing to
get the thing to a point where notes wouldn't sound because the hammer was
seemingly stuck down. It was temporary, but, a drag.

I LOVE the action on it... If it just had more polyphony and more (better)
piano sounds

My mainstay piano is the Kurzweil piano... I know one guy said they could
hear the multi-sample points (i haven't really noticed, but, I don't want
to find out and have it start annoying me, so I haven't listened that
carefully for it).

Price ...??? You should be able to get it for around $1900. Even your local
store should be able to do that. But, BE CAREFUL!!!! make sure you can keep
it for a full week and then be able to return it if you don't like it.

Finally, look into the yamaha piece someone posted about. I like the clavinova
series, but like the keyboard on the FP-8 better... but maybe this new clav\
is different...

-Jeff Adams-

----------------------------------------------

Article: 1680 of rec.music.makers.synth
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: bel...@ns.network.com (Tony R. Beltran)
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 15:19:40

I own an FP-8 and like it. Mine cost $1900 at Torp's music, but the
stand was another $180. Since you live in Rochester, it would be
feasible to drive up here to Minneapolis if you can't get below say
$2100 locally. I would advise buying the Roland stand. Originally,
I used an Ultimate Support stand, but this supports the piano at
two points about 1/3 of the way in from each end. The hammer action
tended to be somewhat noisy when supported this way. I called Roland
and they said the piano should be supported on the ends. I bought the
Roland stand from Torp's and the noise went away when I used the stand.

The FP-8 uses real hammers, which I think tends to make the piano a
bit fragile. It is best to plan on treating the FP-8 as a stationary
unit (like a real piano).

It seems to me that a digital piano at best will sound like a decent
CD recording of a piano. One thing I liked about the sound of the
FP-8 is that the sound is even across the 88 keys. I had the Kurzweil
K1200 at home for a few days. While it sounded good, I could definitely
hear the sample change every 5 keys or so. I can't detect this with the
FP-8. Also, with the hammer actions, you can really dig in when playing
like a real piano.

The FP-8 has an on-board sequencer which is simply REC and PLAY for a
scratch pad (no tracks, no midi output). The FP-8 has midi in and out,
but the sequencer doesn't communicate with these - just the keyboard.
I don't find this a problem - I like the simple scratch pad just to
hear how something I just played sounds. For sequencing I use the
MV-30 or my computer.

Don't consider the FP-8 as a real midi controller. It isn't. It
doesn't have zones, aftertouch, etc. It has one transmit and one
receive channel - though these can be separately selected. It sends
note on and note on with velocity zero for note off and velocity.
It also sends and receives patch change. It has built-in chorus
nad reverb (each with 3 or 4 settings).

So there you have it. I have had mine for a year and play it daily.
For me, it was the right choice. For you...

Tony

----------------------------------------

Article: 1685 of rec.music.makers.synth
From: Luis.E....@dartmouth.edu (Luis E. Scheker)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')
Date: 2 Feb 93 22:38:48 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College

You may wish to look at the Yamaha PF-P100 (a brand-new, portable
Clavinova). It has wonderful sounds, the best feel I have found on a
digital grand, great internal speakers, and has a three-band digital
equalizer on board which gives you a level of control over the sound
that you won't find on the Roland FP-8 or other similar keyboards.

luis.s...@dartmouth.edu

--------------------------------------------

Date: 3 Feb 93 10:51:18 EST
From: Luis.E....@Dartmouth.EDU (Luis E. Scheker)
To: dha...@vnet.ibm.com

Unfortunately, Yamaha has imposed upon its dealers a restriction on the
price that they can quote you - $2495. The lowest price they can sell it for
is $2095. The only retailer I've talked to who will sell it for this price
is Caruso Music (I don't have their number at hand, but they advertise in
every issue of Keyboard magazine). Caruso is a great music store that also
sells products by mail-order (you get the lowest possible price because there
is no tax [unless you live in Connecticut] and no commission for salesmen).
The drawback, of course, is that while the product is under factory warranty,
the dealership has no responsibility once you receive the product. You must
deal directly with the manufacturer. Anyway, I'd recommend playing and
seeing one first. It is somewhat heavier than the FP-8, and there is also
the price difference. Happily, you can't go wrong with either unit. Good
luck.

Luis

-------------------------------------

Article: 1716 of rec.music.makers.synth
From: j...@col.hp.com (Jeff Haeffele-x3570)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')
Date: 3 Feb 1993 20:55:09 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

I have a Korg C5000 digital piano that I like. It has a full, weighted
keyboard with the following built in sounds: piano 1 & 2, electric
piano, harpsichord, and vibes. It also has built in reverb and midi in
& out. It's not fancy but it's a very good unit for the price (~$1600
when I bought).

Jeff

--------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 08:50:42 GMT
To: dha...@vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth

I'm looking for a new master keyboard, and am giving some consideration
to the fp8; the KS32 looks like a strong contender (although I already
have a VFX, so the sounds are from the same palette). And of course
there's the Akai master system - is it the A1000? A piano module can be
fitted internally. Good action, good sound, similar price to fp8, possibly
more robust?

Russ

-------------------------------

Article: 1882 of rec.music.makers.synth
From: rai...@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rainer Malzbender)
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 01:14:37 GMT

Having posted essentially the exact same message some months ago, I can tell
you that I ended up with the Kurzweil Mark V Ensemble Grand. Not exactly
portable, but I liked it better than the FP-8 and much better than the
Korg pianos. I've heard they've improved both the action and the samples
since the older K1200; at least to my ear there are no audible sample
discontinuities. There are some things it's not, though: it's not a synth,
and it's not a good master Midi controller. List price is $3K.

Rainer

--------------------------------------

Article: 1955 of rec.music.makers.synth
From: r...@emerson.Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Green)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...
Date: 10 Feb 1993 22:49:11 GMT

Though obscure, you might want to take a look at the digital pianos
from a German manufacturer named Wersi. They make a line called the
Wersi Grand Piano. The 'Grand' refers to the sound - it's all
compressed/analog Boessendorfer (sp?) that uses a model of digital
run-length encoding compression that is quite innovative. They have a
model or two in the $3K range. Though highly subjective (standard
caveat), I found the piano sound to be the best I have heard of all
synthetic/digital devices. It's really a Boessen*** in a box. The
touch/action is also excellent. I recommend you check it out. Wersi's
number is 717-299-4327.

------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Harker
IBM - Rochester, MN
dha...@vnet.ibm.com
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
End of article 1879 (of 2020)--what next? [npq]

-------------------------------

Article: 1882 of rec.music.makers.synth
From: rai...@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rainer Malzbender)
Subject: Re: Electric Piano opinions ('Re: Best Piano...')
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 01:14:37 GMT

Rainer

=====================================================================

Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 16:49:13 -0400
From: Bryan Sabol <bsa...@apple.com>
To: mic...@zooid.guild.org
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Piano-Like Synth/Keyboard

You asked for it! Here's a list of every response I got to date.
I went to a synth/guitar store yesterday and played with the Rolad
F8 (I think that was the model). It had really nice keyboard action,
but it was very limited in any other capability. One of the 5 types of
piano sounds was pretty good, but for $2000, I'll look around some more.

Also: my interest is now shifting towards an Ensoniq K32, which for
$1750 has both very nice keys (so I've heard: I want to test drive
one), and tons of other stuff if I decide to get more into MIDI stuff
down the road.

Good luck.

bryan

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 13:16:25 -0800
To: bsa...@Apple.COM (Bryan Sabol)
From: Rick Auricchio <ri...@taligent.com>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Piano-Like Synth/Keyboard

I just got a Peavey DPM-C8 88-key MIDI controller keyboard (no sounds, just
midi master).

It feels like a grand piano and has wooden keys. Lists for $2000; I paid $1500.

Then just add on an EMU ProFormance piano module (1/2 rack size). These are
often on sale at Guitar Center for $299.

Sure, the Peavey has tons more midi control than you (or I) need, plus a
floppy for sysex stuff to/from other sound modules.

But other keyboard controllers list for much more, so the Peavey is a deal.
--rick
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Auricchio ri...@taligent.com 408-974-4227
Taligent Inc. 10725 N. DeAnza Blvd. M/S SE/1 Cupertino, CA 95014-2000 USA
If everything you say is a non sequitur, you can't be quoted out of context.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 16:10:01 -0600
From: Marc Sabatella <ma...@urutu.sde.hp.com>
To: bsa...@Apple.COM (Bryan Sabol)
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Piano-Like Synth/Keyboard

> Does such a thing exist with today's technology?

There's about a zillion of them out there, from the Yamaha Clavinova, which has
been around for well over five years, to all sorts of newer models from Roland
and lots of other electronic instrument manufacturers. Go to your nearest
piano store or large music store and you're guaranteed to see a dozen different
models.

Your reasons for wanting one, though, don't seem particularly compelling to me:
they tend to be as big as an upright (how could they be much smaller and still
have 88 full size keys?) and tend to cost as much: in the $2000 range. They
are somewhat more portable, although for the most part, not something you want
to move around every week. They can also be played with headphones, or at low
volumes. Which makes them fairly well-suited for dormitories or apartments
with paper-thin walls.

An issue of Electronic Musician had a comarative review of many models of
"digital pianos" (one name for this type of instrument) within the last year.
You should be able to find this in any decent library.

--
Marc Sabatella
ma...@fc.sde.hp.com
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 18:13:33 -0400
To: bsa...@Apple.COM
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Piano-Like Synth/Keyboard
From: Luis.E....@Dartmouth.EDU (Luis E. Scheker)

For around $2000, you can purchase (new):

1) A Yamaha PF-P100 - 88 weighted keys, built-in speakers, and on-board
digital effects and equalizer.

Pros: About the nicest sampled piano sound you will find; digital
equalizer can shape the sound of the piano to your liking; built-in
speakers are wonderful; feel is very much like a grand piano.

Cons: Heavy (around 75 pounds) but still portable; sampled sounds are
fixed - you can't load new ones in.

2) Ensoniq KS-32 - 76 weighted keys, a full-blown synthesizer with
sequencer, effects, and drum sounds.

Pros: The feel is about the best around; you can load in new sounds;
you can record multi-track sequences.

Cons: The piano sounds are not very good; while you can load new
programs, you can't load new samples, so you're stuck with the piano
that it has.

Hope this helped.

Luis

--------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 16:27:45 PDT
To: bsa...@Apple.COM (Bryan Sabol)
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Piano-Like Synth/Keyboard
From: dba...@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU

Not insane. Among others, you'll definitely want to
look at the Yamaha Clavinova line. I was in your
position a few months ago and ended up getting the
Clavinova CLP-360, for $1749, from a Yamaha piano
dealer in Mountain View ("Keyboard Distributors" ...
In case you're in the bay area, there's at least
one other place around - in San Jose ... I think that
you'll only find these at Yamaha dealers).

The sound is quite good I'd say, and while I think
I can tell some slight differences between its
keyboard and typical pianos, it's in the ballpark.
I'm no pianist -- yet -- but a friend who is quite
talented also has a (different) Clavinova and
loves it.

The CLP-360 is one of a series of "simple" Clavinovas
which I think would suit you given your posting.
They have a couple voices (2 pianos, elec. piano,
nice harpsichord, organ) and 0-2 "sound-modifiers"
(eg, reverb).

There is a fancier line with disk drives, accompaniment,
etc., but I wanted to put my money into sound and
feel, and $1750 was already past my limit!

I understand that the keyboard is identical on all
Clavinovas, except perhaps for a special model,
the PFP-100 (which is designed as a stage instrument,
eg portable, but which seems to be highly recommended
by net people and which does indeed sound a bit brighter).

Good luck,

Dave Bailey
dba...@icsi.berkeley.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 17:00:24 PDT
From: ee5...@sdcc15.UCSD.EDU (Anthony Tang)
To: bsa...@Apple.COM
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Piano-Like Synth/Keyboard

I am also looking into getting one of these. Here is what I've seen
so far...

Yamaha makes a full line of "Clavinovas", which are basically full
on 88 key weighted digital pianos/MIDI keyboards. (They're all MIDI
capable) They have incredible piano-like feel (Can't tell the
difference, although some people say their hands hurt a bit after
playing 'em for a while. They might be slightly heavy. From the
experience I've had with them, they might as well be pianos) The
piano sound on them is AMAZING. You can not tell the difference
between one of these and a grand.

As for price, They range from ~$2000 for the "low-end" (by no means
very low end) pf-100 to the >$5000 self standing models (Very nice).

If I can only find the money, I'll probably try to pick up a pf-100.
It's a ~50 lb. keyboard (no stand), with DSP effects, etc, stereo
built in speakers (very nice. Oh, yeh. The higher end Clavinovas
actually have speakers inside the cabinte, and the cabinets are made
of wood, so the sound reverberates much like a real piano), line
in/out, and a bender wheel. Quite nice.

Other people have also recommended an Akai model (Don't know which
one), which they claim has a better feel. However, I do't have any
experience with this. If you already have a piano synth-module,
etc, you might just want to get a weigthed controller. Again,
Yamaha makes one (KX-88), which has a great piano feel, and hundreds
of features. (~1500-2000).

Roland also makes a line of digital pianos. The keys, however, IMO,
are a bit heavy. (I've played piano for more than 16 years now, so
I'm a bit sensitive to how the keys feel)
They're also a little more than the Yamahas, I
think., (Not 100% sure)

Anyway, if you get any interesting info, please share. Thanks.

Anthony Tang
akt...@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 23:26:04 -0400
From: vel...@epas.utoronto.ca (Nicholas Velharticky)
To: bsa...@Apple.COM
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Piano-Like Synth/Keyboard

Nothing, in my opinion, out on the market both sounds and responds
exactly like an acoustic piano, but a reasonable keyboard that suits
my playing sensibilities is Roland's FP-8 digital piano. Pretty
limited in terms of a master controller (i.e.,
zones/splits/layers/etc.), but apparently piano sounds and key
action are what is the most important features for you. If you're
looking for piano action, then you might not want aftertouch
sensitivity; Roland didn't implement aftertouch on its Rhodes MK-80
because (they said) it would adversely affect the piano action of the
keys for its acoustic and electric piano sounds. Or you might try to
get a Fatar keyboard controller (the -90, or something), and a piano
module, such as E-mu's Proformance, Proformance Plus, or Roland's
U-220, Sound Canvas, or Boss' (Roland's) Dr. Synth-330 sound module.

For my acoustic piano sounds, mainly for 4-tracking, I've given up the
88 keys and piano action, and bought instead a Roland U-20, which has
an excellent acoustic piano sound. I've tried the acoustic piano
sounds on many synths: Roland's JV-80, JV-30, Ensoniq's SQ-2, Korg's
Wavestation, 01/W, and I have been for the most part, dissatisfied.
Many of the sounds either had too metallic a ring to them without any
effects, or had too short a decay and too low a sustain level for my
playing tastes.

Also, you might consider one of Yamaha's Clavinovas, which have pretty
good action and good piano sounds.

So my top two recommendations for your requirements are: Roland FP-8,
or one of Yamaha's Clavinovas.
Good luck in your music.

Cheers :')

Nick Velharticky
vel...@epas.utoronto.ca

------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 10:03:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel P Mudry <dp...@pitt.edu>
To: bsa...@apple.com
Subject: Suggestion for keyboard

Brian,

I am very much looking for the same setup as you are and after extensive
shopping around, I would highly recommend the Ensoniq KS-32. It has 76
weighted keys, is velocity and pressure sensitive. The sound quality of
a real piano is the best I have heard, and as far as the feel of a real
piano I don't think you could do any better. It is highly impressive. A
16 track sequencer is built in along with true synth capabilities for a
vast array of sounds and performace features. The best price I have seen
was $1750.00 new. Truly worth it! Go out and find and play one. Good luck...

Dan Mudry

dp...@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 09:20:14 CDT
From: ral...@comm.mot.com (Ralph Warchol)
To: bsa...@Apple.COM
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Piano-Like Synth/Keyboa

Bryan,

I have a Roland FP8 which cost about $1500. I was blown away by the realism
of the keyboard action. It is MIDI compatible (never discount what you may
in the future). It contains the following sampled (digitally encoded) sounds:
(5 various pianos....the Yamaha Grand is unbelievable; a few variations of the
old Fender Rhodes...Roland bought the Rhodes line and thus the right to
digitally sample the sound; + a few other interesting stings).

My prerequisites were like yours: I wanted the feel of a real analog keyboard.
This unit has it all. Each key has 128 weighted samples. This means that the
Piano is very responsive based on the amount of pressure by which you strike
a key.

The unit also has reverb and chorus controls. The built in speaker is just
fine for around the house use. There is a headphone jack as well as external
outputs. I have hooked the unit up to my stereo via these outputs.

The piano is not much bigger than the fullsize keyboard. It weighs about 35lbs.
I bought a floor stand for $20. The piano comes with a sustain pedal. When I
bought mine (about 1 year ago) it came in 3 colors (black, red and white). I
have a white one (best looking color in my opinion).

I also purchased a carrying case but have never taken it out of the house!

Check out the Roland FP8 before buying anything else. I have been playing for
20 years. The FP8 is the nicest, most portable thing I have ever seen.

Gee maybe I should get a job in sales....have a nice holiday!

Ralph

Ralph P. Warchol, Systems Administrator | ral...@comm.mot.com
Software Technology Center - LMPS Research | Ph: 708-576-8519
Motorola Inc., Schaumburg, Illinois | Fax: 708-576-3131

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