Can you get good Hammond sounds without spending extra on modules?
Peter Anthony Cowan
I see all these posts talking about the Oberheim emultator, and the Voce
Micro B, all just to get the hammond sound, but these modules cost
upto $1000 it seems. I am looking to buy a keyboard for a ska band that
I play in, so organ sounds are pretty important to me, but the sounds
don't have to be *exactly* like the original organs. I just want something
that will provide a pretty good Hammond + Leslie sound, and by "pretty good"
I just mean something that might call more attention to the fact that it
sounds something like a Hammond, rather than calling attention to the fact
that it really *doesn't* sound like a Hammond. IF it comes down to it,
I'll probably just spend as little money as I need to for a console
with midi, and so I can buy one of these emulators(What ones do are worth
looking into other than the Voce, and the Oberheim?) with the money I
save. Again, I'd rather not do that, because I really don't need a sound
that is *that* authentic, my role in the band is pretty much background
texturing. I see a lot of used Korg M1s for sale in the papers, I know
they were the "big thing" in the 80s, can you get decent Hammond sounds
on these? Please, if anyone has any advice on this matter, please
respond by post, or e-mail. thanks.
-Peter
p.s.- Has anyone here played in a ska band before? IF so, what set-up
did you use?
Pete
: I see all these posts talking about the Oberheim emultator, and the Voce
: upto $1000 it seems. I am looking to buy a keyboard for a ska band that
: I play in, so organ sounds are pretty important to me, but the sounds
: don't have to be *exactly* like the original organs. I just want something
: that will provide a pretty good Hammond + Leslie sound, and by "pretty good"
The Voce Micro B II should run in the mid $400s. It has 20 odd Hammond
sounds that aren't bad. The built in Leslie simulator isn't the best but
it works nicely if you're not too fussy. Assuming you own a MIDI
keyboard and a MIDI cable, organ simulating will cost you in the mid $400s
Pete
Elson Trinidad
Peter Anthony Cowan <pet...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>I see all these posts talking about the Oberheim emultator, and the Voce
>Micro B, all just to get the hammond sound, but these modules cost
>upto $1000 it seems. I am looking to buy a keyboard for a ska band that
>I play in, so organ sounds are pretty important to me, but the sounds
>don't have to be *exactly* like the original organs. I just want something
>that will provide a pretty good Hammond + Leslie sound, and by "pretty good"
>I just mean something that might call more attention to the fact that it
>sounds something like a Hammond, rather than calling attention to the fact
>that it really *doesn't* sound like a Hammond. IF it comes down to it,
Here's my setup:
- Yamaha DX7 classic with E! modification
- Boss SE50 stereo effects processor
The DX7 puts out very good imitations of various drawbar settings
on the Hammond; the trick is knowing which drawbars correspond to which
frequencies on the DX7, and which drawbar settings correspond to
the output level of the DX7 operators.
The real big deal is the Leslie sound. This makes a HUGE difference.
The SE-50 (and the newer SE-70) 1/2 rack effects units have a "Rotary Speaker"
program which has settings for the lower and higher frequency horns,
plus overdrive and MIDI settings if you wish to control the speed.
The enhanced DX7, with improved MIDI controller settings, allows me to
control the rotary speed via a footpedal.
It works pretty well for me. Though it doesn't RIP like an authentic Hammond
does, it does tear it up fairly well.
This whole setup was inspired by a friend, who also uses a DX7 for
organ sounds, but with a real Leslie speaker. I tell you, you CANNOT
tell the difference. The Hammond organ sound is just a bunch of
sine waves, sometimes with a percussive attack. The real meat of the sound
is the Leslie.
Elson
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vi...@euronet.nl
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>From: pet...@cats.ucsc.edu (Peter Anthony Cowan)
>Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
>Subject: Can you get good Hammond sounds without spending extra on modules?
>Date: 20 Apr 1995 22:52:01 GMT
>Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
>Lines: 25
>Message-ID: <3n6oih$q...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
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>Keywords: hammond, organ
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>I see all these posts talking about the Oberheim emultator, and the Voce
>Micro B, all just to get the hammond sound, but these modules cost
>upto $1000 it seems. I am looking to buy a keyboard for a ska band that
>I play in, so organ sounds are pretty important to me, but the sounds
>don't have to be *exactly* like the original organs. I just want something
>that will provide a pretty good Hammond + Leslie sound, and by "pretty good"
>I just mean something that might call more attention to the fact that it
>sounds something like a Hammond, rather than calling attention to the fact
>that it really *doesn't* sound like a Hammond. IF it comes down to it,
>I'll probably just spend as little money as I need to for a console
>with midi, and so I can buy one of these emulators(What ones do are worth
>looking into other than the Voce, and the Oberheim?) with the money I
>save. Again, I'd rather not do that, because I really don't need a sound
>that is *that* authentic, my role in the band is pretty much background
>texturing. I see a lot of used Korg M1s for sale in the papers, I know
>they were the "big thing" in the 80s, can you get decent Hammond sounds
>on these? Please, if anyone has any advice on this matter, please
>respond by post, or e-mail. thanks.
> -Peter
>p.s.- Has anyone here played in a ska band before? IF so, what set-up
> did you use?
I've used a DX-7 synth for years and there are some great organ patches
available. But if I had to choose I would go for a secondhand CX-3 from Korg.
They are cheap to get and sound rather good.
Vinni
Rich Jones
>Micro B, all just to get the hammond sound, but these modules cost
>upto $1000 it seems. I am looking to buy a keyboard for a ska band that
>p.s.- Has anyone here played in a ska band before? IF so, what set-up
> did you use?
I play ska and R&B. I use a Hammond XB-2 (a B-3/Leslie 122 wannabe)
and a Roland Rhodes MK-80 (a suitcase Rhodes/Yamaha CP-70B/Hohner
Clavinet wannabe).
I didn't test the Micro-B I/II because I wanted drawbars. As for the
Oberheim, I didn't try it because I'd never heard of it. So much for
being an informed buyer...
The Hammond does a pretty good job of simulating the B-3 sound. This
shouldn't be a surprise given who makes it--Hammond/Suzuki--although
the Leslie could be a bit better. It's not cheap (I paid $1200
Canadian for mine used, and it's the model without the built in
reverb), but the drawbars give you WAY more real-time control than a
sample playback module like the Micro B I or II can.
While it doesn't sound as good as the real thing, it's certainly
cheaper than buying a used B-3 and two Leslie 122's, not to mention
the VW microbus you'd need to carry the whole rig around ;-)
Rich
--
Rich Jones ri...@watcom.on.ca |
Watcom International Inc. |
415 Phillip St. Waterloo ON N2L 3X2 CANADA |
Tel: +1 519 886-3700 Fax: +1 519 747-4971 |
R Krizman
In article <3n801d$m...@alcor.usc.edu>
ertr...@alcor.usc.edu (Elson Trinidad) wrote:
>This whole setup was inspired by a friend, who also uses a DX7 for
>organ sounds, but with a real Leslie speaker. I tell you, you CANNOT
>tell the difference. The Hammond organ sound is just a bunch of
>sine waves, sometimes with a percussive attack. The real meat of the
>sound
>is the Leslie.
The Hammond organ sound is NOT just a bunch of sine waves. A leslie will
certainly fatten up a DX7, but much will still be missing. Try plugging
it into the RCA input inside a Hammond, then through the Leslie and you'll
see what the Hammond pre-amp adds. The Hammond designers may have been
trying to generate perfect sine waves, but their product is interesting
because they failed. Compare any single drawbar sound from a B-3 with a
sine wave generated on a DX7 and you'll see. Note also the interaction
between drawbars. There is a sort of compression that happens on the B-3
that mitigates the volume differences between single and multiple drawbar
settings, which somehow makes the one or two drawbar setting sound
incredibly fat.
There are zillions of other differences which Hammond players would
consider to be significant (Chorus/vibrato settings, keyboard feel,
drawbar tone-change access, true key click, legato non-re-triggering
percussion, tonal qualities of the volume pedal, double keyboard, upper
midrange "bark", and so on), but the original poster wasn't being all that
fussy. That being said, and deference being granted to the original B-3,
a DX7 through a Leslie will probably sound fine in a ska band, expecially
if the player likes it and enjoys playing it. In fact, a DX-7 sound seems
to have more of a life of it's own compared to, say, an M1 sample where
you feel like you're just showing people snapshots of a B-3.
Rick Krizman
KrizManic Music,
Venice, CA
Paul W. Zablotski
In a previous article, ri...@watcom.on.ca (Rich Jones) says:
>In article <3n6oih$q...@darkstar.ucsc.edu>,
>Peter Anthony Cowan <pet...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>>
>
>I play ska and R&B. I use a Hammond XB-2 (a B-3/Leslie 122 wannabe)
>and a Roland Rhodes MK-80 (a suitcase Rhodes/Yamaha CP-70B/Hohner
>Clavinet wannabe).
>
>I didn't test the Micro-B I/II because I wanted drawbars. As for the
Fair enough. BUT.... In about 1 month, VOCE will be releasing their V3, a
Hammond/Leslie module that can be controlled with a remote drawbar unit. I'm
not quite sure about the price, but I do know both the V3 and the drawbar
unit will be well under $1000 together.
>Oberheim, I didn't try it because I'd never heard of it. So much for
>being an informed buyer...
Probably a good thing, though. Most reviews I've seen have been negative
(thin sound, lousy leslie simulation).
>
>The Hammond does a pretty good job of simulating the B-3 sound. This
>shouldn't be a surprise given who makes it--Hammond/Suzuki--although
>the Leslie could be a bit better. It's not cheap (I paid $1200
>Canadian for mine used, and it's the model without the built in
>reverb), but the drawbars give you WAY more real-time control than a
>sample playback module like the Micro B I or II can.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bite your tongue! These aren't sample playback, but actually additive
sinewave synthesis (plus more) - a digital update of how the tonewheel
Hammonds worked.
>
>While it doesn't sound as good as the real thing, it's certainly
>cheaper than buying a used B-3 and two Leslie 122's, not to mention
>the VW microbus you'd need to carry the whole rig around ;-)
Agreed!
PZ
Rich Jones
>>shouldn't be a surprise given who makes it--Hammond/Suzuki--although
>>the Leslie could be a bit better. It's not cheap (I paid $1200
>>Canadian for mine used, and it's the model without the built in
>>reverb), but the drawbars give you WAY more real-time control than a
>>sample playback module like the Micro B I or II can.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Bite your tongue! These aren't sample playback, but actually additive
>sinewave synthesis (plus more) - a digital update of how the tonewheel
>Hammonds worked.
Consider it bitten ;-) I suppose I shouldn't have believed the sales-droid
that told me that. Although, it did seem like a logical given that the
machine doesn't allow you to change the drawbar settings.