Which synthesizer has the best heavy metal guitar sound ?
Kim Hansen
Steve Chen wrote:
> Which synthesizer has the best heavy metal guitar sound ?
>
> Thank You.
T.J.
> sound.
Les Mizzell
Hire a freaking guitar player, huh?
An electric guitar by itself doesn't actually sound like much at all, except
maybe a thinned out acoustic. It's the entire audio chain, from string to
speaker that makes up the sound. This includes any special effects or stomp
boxes that may be in use, EQ and overdrive settings on the amp....
Jan Hammer made a simple Minimoog sound more like guitar than anybody else
since he gained popularity for scoring "Miami Vice". No complicated samples
or Romplers there...Go find a copy of "Oh Yeah" and see what I mean, or get
a copy of "Wired" by Jeff Beck. Half of what you think is guitar on this
album is actually Jan.
Although you can get a "guitar like" sound out of a lot of current synths,
it's a pretty boring static sound. Starts off big, wait 4 seconds and it
crossfades into feedback. Too predictable, and pretty unenjoyable to play
after the first five minutes of glee wears off.
First, you've got to get signal chain right. Go buy a POD! That pretty much
takes care of that. Steal a Fender Twin Reverb or something....
Synth wise, it takes only basic waveforms to get the sound right if the
signal chain is correct. Simple square or saw waves will do. Toss your
stupid samples. They're not fluid enough.
Now the hard part. 95% of getting a believable guitar sound comes from
playing technique. It's in the way notes are articulated and bent. You're
going to have to set pitch bend for a lot more than a whole step. A fifth
or even an octave is good. Practice holding down one note, and then playing
scales using the pitch bend alone. Once you get this down, you're on your
way. Also remember that a lot of guitar playing uses "in-between" notes as
well. It's sharper than F but flatter than F sharp and might NOT resolve to
being on pitch...
It's also in the vibrato. Don't think you can reach for the mod wheel and
use a LFO for vibrato and have it sound realistic. The vibrato on guitar
isn't set at a static rate or depth. About the only way to get all the
above right is to practice like hell your pitch bend techniques. Once
again, Jan Hammer is the PERFECT example. Even his vibrato is done with
pitch bend, not the mod wheel.
Another problem you run into is the fact that a guitar can hit two strings
in unison, and then bend them out of tune. A lot of current synths make it
darn hard to do this from the front panel. One way to assign overall pitch
bend to the pitch bender, and then assign pitch bend to a second oscillator
to the mod wheel, if your synth will let you. The Minimoog was great
because you could just reach up and grab the Oscillator 2 pitch knob and
bend from there.
This should get you a good start. Turn off that "Metal Guitar" preset #45
that uses crappy samples and learn how to do it right! Once you've got the
technique down, you can give any average guitar player a run for the money.
--
Les Mizzell
Richard Kilpatrick
Les Mizzell <les...@bellsouth.net> grabbed chalk and scrawled:
>Oh boy, here we go again...
>
>Hire a freaking guitar player, huh?
The Roland D-50 can do a pretty good heavy metal guitar, using Tube
Screamer with chase and a few other tweaks... you have to play like
lightening, and within the capabilities of the synth (which pretty much
munches all the polyphony when you use chase).
Aftertouch gives you feedback, which is nice. Incidentally, if you want
to do a realistic 'pitch bend' style vibrato but don't have enough
hands, set your aftertouch to do something similar. You can only go in
one direction, but it makes control /much/ easier.
Of course, this is /heavy/ metal guitar - mainly processed sounds. I
can't think of anything which sounds like a real guitar except perhaps,
a guitar.
Richard
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Les Mizzell
> to do a realistic 'pitch bend' style vibrato but don't have enough
> hands, set your aftertouch to do something similar. You can only go in
> one direction, but it makes control /much/ easier.
Unless you're using a whammy bar on a guitar for vibrato, it only goes in
one direction anyway. "Fingered" vibrato starts on pitch and goes sharp,
not sharp and flat. So, in that case, using aftertouch to bend sharp is a
realistic way of doing it. Little harder to maintain as precise control as
pitch bend, but will work fine in some cases.
--
Les Mizzell
****************
Richard Kilpatrick
Les Mizzell <les...@bellsouth.net> grabbed chalk and scrawled:
>Unless you're using a whammy bar on a guitar for vibrato, it only goes in
>one direction anyway. "Fingered" vibrato starts on pitch and goes sharp,
>not sharp and flat. So, in that case, using aftertouch to bend sharp is a
>realistic way of doing it. Little harder to maintain as precise control as
>pitch bend, but will work fine in some cases.
Obviously, it depends on your natural instrument, style and such - I
have no problem keeping perfect control of the aftertouch on my D-50 - I
can recreate any effect - but I find most modern keyboards too light. I
can't really play guitar.
Generally I'd use aftertouch if playing a 'lead' section, and pitch bend
when playing bass.
Lee Sebel
<she...@ms2.hinet.net> wrote:
> Which synthesizer has the best heavy metal guitar sound ?
>
> Thank You.
Well there are quite a few that can get a sound that is usable for metal,
but much comes from the playing technique.
My 2 favorites:
Roland JD-990 - good chunky crunchy sound. There is a ROM demo in the
piece of a total metally tune, very impressive.
Kurzweil K2500 w/KDFX or K2600 - Excellent amp models and synthetic
distortion effects to work with. Superior architecture for velocity
switching sounds, definitely an important thing to have when doing guitar
stuff. Also multiple benders available making it easier to cover guitar
bend stuff. I have mine set for 1-step bends on the wheel up, minor 3rd
bends on the small ribbon and octave bends on the large ribbon and wheel
down.
While not a metal piece, you might want to check out the distortion guitar
sounds in my tune "Eric The Bad", performed on the Kurzweil rig mentioned
above.
It's on my mp3 site:
I'd be interested in your comments and would be happy to answer any questions.
I have been doing guitar simulations since the '80's when I ran a Yamaha
TX216 rack through a BOSS Heavy Metal pedal. Did clinics for Roland where
I demo'd the S330/550 sampler with clean velocity switched strat samples
run through a BOSS ME-5 multi-effects, which I now use in conjunction with
a GP16 for some stuff.
I hate spam, so remove a "syn" before replying via email.
Tonefully yours,
<€> Lee Sebel / Cool Music Gear / 888-487-2166 <€>
Representing Innovative Instruments of Impeccable Quality
---> Check out my original music at: <---
http://www.mp3.com/voltz
T.J.
Les Mizzell wrote:
> Oh boy, here we go again...
>
> Hire a freaking guitar player, huh?
But who is the guitarist going to trade leads with?
Nice analogy of how to approach playing "Guitar like" leads on the synth, Les!
I forget how much of the sound is actually playing technique. I will have to
try playing scales with the pitch bender. I usually set mine at 7 semitones. I
have practiced playing say C, then the B below and bending up to the C. Then
B-flat to C, etc. Never tried actually playing scales though. I also rely on
pitch bend vibrato. Much more realistic, and so much more expressive.
Your point is correct about the signal chain. Just think of the sound of an
electric guitar straight without any processors. This is the sound you want to
emulate on your synth. Then add the same processors/effects as a metal guitarist
would. This is where the fun starts. Experimentation is a must. I believe at one
time Jan Hammer used a Minimoog and a Pignose amp. I have seen pics of him with
a Marshall, and I have tried a TSL with double stacked 4 X 12's with my Casio.
Unbelievable! Man do those cabinets howl. I can't afford a $2,500.00 guitar
amp. But it sounded great.
A Minimoog for leads is way too expensive for most keyboardists. And samplers
are just lacking something. While the Minimoog is my personal favorite lead
synth, it is monophonic. So unless you are multi-tracking, you can forget about
hitting power chords. I have been getting good mileage with a $40.00 Casio
CZ-101. It plays awesome leads, and does some very convincing power chords, all
on the same patch. Add the Pignose and you have a really portable system.
(another advantage enjoyed by guitarists). I am currently using a Zoom 707 pedal
with the Casio. This combo really rocks and won't break the bank. I am thinking
of trying one of those Korg PX1's if I can find one cheap.
But hearing is believing. (and not many believe a Casio is good for anything
more than a doorstop). I have a site with some small samples of the CZ-101 and
patches to download with the "Guitar Like" presets. The CZ-101 has no velocity,
no aftertouch, no modulation, just note on / note off and the pitch bender. It
has this strangely, ugly, nasty, raunchy metal like sound though. It could never
take the place of guitar, but can back one up nicely, and maybe trade leads!
Check it out yourself.
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/cz101.html
Terry
Hyeong-Min Kim
Lee Sebel wrote:
> Kurzweil K2500 w/KDFX or K2600 - Excellent amp models and synthetic
> distortion effects to work with. Superior architecture for velocity
> switching sounds, definitely an important thing to have when doing guitar
> stuff. Also multiple benders available making it easier to cover guitar
> bend stuff. I have mine set for 1-step bends on the wheel up, minor 3rd
> bends on the small ribbon and octave bends on the large ribbon and wheel
> down.
Why don't you set one of the controllers to do staircase bending to emulate guitar
slides? The K2xxx is one of few synths that can do that.
Hyeong-Min Kim
"T.J." wrote:
> Les Mizzell wrote:
>
> > Oh boy, here we go again...
> >
> > Hire a freaking guitar player, huh?
>
> But who is the guitarist going to trade leads with?
The keyboard player. Why would you want your synth sound like a guitar? A synth
should sound like a synth. I personally don't like Jan Hammer's guitar imitation.
What's the purpose of imitating guitar anyway? Although I'm not a big fan of Eddie
Van Halen's synth playing, I agree with him on one thing. Eddie once said in a
Guitar Player interview that he never used a pitch bend wheel on a synth because he
didn't want to imitate guitar on a synth.
T.J.
Hyeong-Min Kim wrote:
Easy answer. Expression! It's not trying to sound like a guitar or any instrument in
particular. Playing the pitch wheel is like playing between the keys. It helps to
express feeling. It always sounds like a synth to me, even if the patch is guitar like.
Terry
R M
Check out "A Tribute to Metallica" by Die Krupps to see what I mean.
Hyeong-Min Kim
"T.J." wrote:
>
> Easy answer. Expression! It's not trying to sound like a guitar or any instrument in
> particular. Playing the pitch wheel is like playing between the keys. It helps to
> express feeling. It always sounds like a synth to me, even if the patch is guitar like.
>
>
Would you say that piano/organ solos are less expressive than synth solos that use the
pitch wheel?
Rob & Heather Williams
Resource web page that demonstrates the Odyssey's potential to fake a
Heavy Metal guitar:
http://www.overacker.com/ody/nugent.mp3
The synth patch is one I created about 20 years ago called "Ted Nugent's
Axxe" Not sure if you were looking for a lead or a rhythm guitar
effect. The above MP3 shows the rhythm guitar effect. Here's the main
URL for the Odyssey web page:
http://www.overacker.com/ody/index.html
Rob
Lee Sebel
wrote:
Well...it would certainly be easy enough to setup...the FUN for the
glissing bender (thanks Daniel Fisher!) is already in the Gtr Jazz Band
program on the Contemporary ROM.
I probably wouldn't use that effect when playing a distorted sound, and I
rarely bend working with clean tones...tend to use them strictly for
chords and fingerpicked patterns.
Also, the tune in question is a live performance piece, so certain hard
decisions had to be made in order to have everything organized to play the
damned thing.
In a studio situation there would be many applications that would benefit
from the gliss sound...
Procyon
pedals?
Way cheaper than buying a $2000 synth...
PSFelix
>pedals?
>
>Way cheaper than buying a $2000 synth...
Is it just me, or is this guy completely missing the point...?
Hyeong-Min Kim
PSFelix wrote:
That guy isn't missing the point. What's the point of trying to emulate
heavy metal guitar sounds on a synth? Spend a couple $200 on a cheapo
guitar & a boss metal zone pedal, and you'll have heavy metal guitar sounds
that kill any synth-produced metal guitar sounds. It's inevitable to try to
emulate strings, brass or choir on synths because it's impossible to record
these sounds at a home studio. But even a fool can play metal guitar as
evidenced by so many current rock guitarists who just bang their guitars to
death. In the past, you had to learn at least how to play chords on guitar,
and even punk guitarists knew 3 chords. Now you don't even seem to have to
learn how to finger, say, a G chord because so many guitar players use open
tunings. More fortunate ones just use a Roland V-guitar system.
Greg
"Hyeong-Min Kim" <hm...@umich.edu> wrote in message
news:3A8F38BF...@umich.edu...
> That guy isn't missing the point. What's the point of trying to emulate
> heavy metal guitar sounds on a synth
Well, the original post asked the musical question:
"Which synthesizer has the best heavy metal guitar sound ?"
Given that - the option of using a guitar is moot.
Greg
T.J.
Yala
> Yamaha EX5
Any synth will do... but more importantly is to go through a distortion
pedal...
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Mike
I ran my SH-101 through a Morley analog echo pedal (which did
whammy-style pitch shifting too) into a 50 Marshall combo turned all
the way up, and it sounded like the end of the world. Sawtooths shred.
Mike
In article <3A8C6B43...@hotmail.com>, "T.J."
Nate Goulet
duplicate, but I can say I've been using my Korg M1 with Invision
"Plus One" upgrade to produce electic guitar sounds with my band for
years. I'm like the 2nd guitarist. I've used it for dozens of songs,
and few people in the clubs we play can tell it isn't a real guitar.
It can't do everything of course, but for standard power chord based
rythm, it's awesome. I also do some leads with it.
Now I have a midi axe (shaped like a guitar) I use with it. It's a
ball.
By the way, the Plus One Electric guitar patch was a sample of a Les
Paul with a Messa Boggie amp.
Nate
On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 02:08:37 -0800, Kim Hansen <kimh...@pacbell.net>
wrote:
Brent A. Busby
thought of as machines for creating unnatural sounds.
--
+=====================+==================================================+
|< Brent A. Busby > | " Elstree ... remember me. | ******* |
|< br...@catmind.org > + | I had a part in a B-movie... | -- The |
| Rockford, IL (USA) | I played a man from history... \ Buggles |
| +++++++++++++++++++++++ | Look at me, now I work for the BBC... ==== |
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synth...@hotmail.com
heavy metal guitar? Guitarists are a dime a dozen. I'm sure you have
a friend that can help out?
Isomorph
The Reality softsynth patch "feedbacker" is pretty amazing. I play it
with a midi'ed guitar and it sounds like an overdrivin amp and really does
feedback.
--
cheers,
Bill
http://www.mp3.com/isomorph
Brent A. Busby
: no offense but why would you want a synth or sampler to sound like a
: heavy metal guitar? Guitarists are a dime a dozen. I'm sure you have
: a friend that can help out?
You've misattributed my post. I wasn't the original poster.
(BTW...I don't even care much for heavy metal...)
: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:43:40 GMT, "Brent A. Busby"
T.J.
Do you have any samples or pics of your ax ? I'm always interested in keyboards getting raunchy metal sounds. And how others get them. Samplers seem to be the most common, but haven't had any luck getting the sounds I'm after with the samplers available to me.
My weapon of choice has been the Casio CZ series. While they don't get that classic raunch guitar sound on their own, the CZ seems to get a good straight guitar sound. Like the sound you might get plugging an electric guitar straight into the board. (not very appealing). But when processing this signal with guitarist FX, the fun begins.
I have tried many different classic analog synths, and got some interesting sounds, but there is something magic going on with the CZ through a distortion. I've tried on other FM synths too(Yamaha DX), while the leads are OK, they seem to muddy up playing chords. The CZ plays both leads and chords well with the same patch. A fun sound to experiment with!
Patches and pics of my MIDI ax and CZ setup here:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/cz101.html
Terry
vindrums
an old soundscape card in my computer, but it came out decent. I
used mostly clean sounds and then used a guitar players rack with a
midiverb and a marshall preamp. (set up by guitar player)
Pictures of my 'Axe' all over the site!
File with guitar is: 'Rhetoric Kills" at:
http://www.geocities.com/vindrums/music/real-audio/samplerealaud.htm
Lee Sebel
<vin....@verizon.net> wrote:
> Check out the guitar sound I got. It was 5 years ago and it's only
> an old soundscape card in my computer, but it came out decent. I
> used mostly clean sounds and then used a guitar players rack with a
> midiverb and a marshall preamp. (set up by guitar player)
I'll throw my tune into the fray. Check out "Eric The Bad" on my mp3.com site:
Performed LIVE and IN REAL TIME (no sequencing, no editing) on a loaded
Kurzweil K2500S. The overdriven guitars are courtesy of the amp and
cabinet models in Kurzweil's KDFX DSP upgrade.
Roland's JD990 module has an excellent heavy metal guitar sound, and one
of the built-in demo tunes showcases it.
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Remove a "syn" from my reply address before replying by email
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Representing Innovative Instruments of Impeccable Quality
>>>Check out my original music at<<<
Joe Moore
The only part you left off is that most of them have "that attitude".
It's like keyboardist who do that are some how validating that keys, are
superior, or can do what guitars do by playing some "awesome" guitar patch.
Anyone knows that this is true, and that the keyboard has been a formidable
instrument for centuries.
It's like" my keyboard can sound like a guitar, now can I play in you band?"
Perhaps some of these new-breed of keyboardist lack basic piano/keyboard
skills to hold their own. I don't know.
Plleeeeeeeez! <Sigh> Keyboards are like royalty, and most of the players
don't know it. We can compete with any type of guitar or guitarist in
technique, or sonic possibilities. Let's see a single guitarist play bass,
harmony, rhythm, and melody all at the same time, and all distinct, and
independent from the other parts. They can't. This can only be done from a
single *keyboard*.
That's why you just about always see 3, 4, or 5 or them trying to cover all
the parts. Or they "sing" and play.
Most guitar/bass players I know, have or are getting some type of keyboard.
What does that tell you?
So keyboard players, stop trying to be or sound like a guitar/guitarist.
DISCLAIMER:
This not a rip on those guitar players who actually can play their
instrument, with great tone, and who can sight-read, and don't rely on
*TAB*, who aren't afraid of guitar synths or sequencers, that can aid you,
and don't have that guitarist "attitude". In the hands of a good guitar
player, a guitar can be a formidable instrument as well. I do admit that.
<synth...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ae3a0f...@news.easynews.com...
J. Moser
> harmony, rhythm, and melody all at the same time, and all distinct, and
> independent from the other parts.
You might want to listen to a few styles of guitar beyond "rock"
guitar.........jazz, classical, latin, etc... You may be surprised. It is a
beautiful instrument.
> That's why you just about always see 3, 4, or 5 or them trying to cover
all
> the parts. Or they "sing" and play.
Again, you are watching the wrong type of guitar players to make such an
assessment of the instrument.
> Most guitar/bass players I know, have or are getting some type of
keyboard.
> What does that tell you?
hmmm.....that they are possibly wanting to play some keyboard also?
> So keyboard players, stop trying to be or sound like a guitar/guitarist.
A keyboard can "simulate" a guitar/guitarist sometimes when used properly in
the song, or when needed in a band to "fill out" the sound in a live
setting. A fake acoustic guitar keyboard sound is sometimes the only way to
make the song work, when a band has only one guitar player. That is only one
example. Also, a keyboard player (who doesn't play guitar) may be
sequencing some material and wants to add some "simulated' guitar to see how
the song will sound.
>In the hands of a good guitar
> player, a guitar can be a formidable instrument as well. I do admit that.
It's not a competition. It is just a different instrument. A sax doesn't
kick a flute's ass, nor does a drum kick a bongo's ass......haha.......it
doesn't matter which one you like. They all are beautiful instruments and
have different sounds/applications/techniques/expertise to play them. It
sounds like you have an "attitude" regarding some kind of
competition......"my instrument is better that yours"....yea!.....whatever.
J. Moser
"Joe Moore" <jv2080...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9cd5g4$glm$1...@newssvr06-en0.news.prodigy.com...
> Anyone knows that this is true, and that the keyboard has been a
formidable
> instrument for centuries.
So has the drum, and for much longer. So what?
> Plleeeeeeeez! <Sigh> Keyboards are like royalty, and most of the players
> don't know it.
I have played piano for about 26 years.....classical trained 13 years, play
jazz, blues, do session work, etc.... I love the piano/keyboards, but so
what? It is no better than any other instrument, including guitar. A flute
player can take your breath away with the proper expertise/skill. One series
of notes, with one hand, played with the proper feel, dynamics, phrasing,
etc...can sound beautiful. The piano is a great instrument, but so are many
others.
>We can compete with any type of guitar or guitarist in
> technique, or sonic possibilities.
Two different players on different instruments cannot "compete" anyway. Why
would one want to try? You could only "compete" on the level at which you
play your own specific instrument. They should only compliment each other.
Joe Moore
J. Moser <RAY...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:9cdkj4$2a0q$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
You missed my point. Anyone knows you can cover more bases with a
keyboard/piano, than a single guitar. Take the best players on either, and
the keyboard *will* come out ahead.
The Piano is the mother of all instruments. Encompassing the whole range of
an symphonic orchestra.
No gutairst can cover each element individually, it's one of the limitations
of the instrument.
Let's see a guitarist play counterpoint as cleanly as someone on a keyboard.
Keys win hands down. Period. I never said it was "better", but more
versatile, and can cover more musical elements.
You're ignorant if you don't see this.
"A fake acoustic guitar keyboard sound is sometimes the only way to
> make the song work"
Why not just hire a real acoustic player, as you probally wouldn't know how
to voice the chords the he does anyway. Better yet, just don't put acoustic
guitar on there, put a Harpsichord.<grin>
Joe Moore
Given all the musical elements, which intrument covers them all?
The piano keyboard.
Which instrument can cover any sound imaginable, or not?
The Keybaord synthesizer.
Which instrument has the largest range?
The Keyboard.
How many notes can you sound at once on a guitar?
How many on a keyboard?
I never denied, and even admitted the very thing you claim about guitar, but
the keyboard is a more versatile instrument.
Why don't you see that?
Ok I have a question for you?
If you had play a chord which instrument would be better:
A monophinc instrument, or a polyphonic instrument.
The polyphonic instruments would win hands down.
Now extend this to keyboard vs guitar in versatility, and the keyboard will
win.
J. Moser <RAY...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:9cdkj7$2a0q$2...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
J. Moser
> > make the song work"
>
> Why not just hire a real acoustic player, as you probally wouldn't know
how
> to voice the chords the he does anyway. Better yet, just don't put
acoustic
> guitar on there, put a Harpsichord.<grin>
Believe me I understand how to hire an acoustic player, I do it all the time
in my session work. And I understand the concept of layering realistic
instrumentation in a studio.
To make it a little more clear for you, I was referring to a band that has
written a song that was recorded with an acoustic guitar in the studio. When
they hit the stage, and they only have one guitarist. The keyboard player
can play acoustic guitar tones, sometimes layered with strings, and it
sounds fine.(especially if the acoustic guitar was playing "noty",
arpeggiated type rhythms). I was not talking about pretending to "strum" on
the keyboard. This is only one example of how a fake guitar sound on a
keyboard can be applied in a live situation.
This is especially true when the song does not call for the keyboard player
"throwing in" a piano, rhodes, etc..., instead. It depends on the song, what
the band wants, and what the audience expects to hear at that time.
And BTW, if you think the harpsichord typically sounds great in the place of
part written for an acoustic guitar.... ......whew!
J. Moser
> Given all the musical elements, which intrument covers them all?
> The piano keyboard.
The guitar does not? Name one element that it does not cover. Again, I am
not sure what guitar players that you are listening to.
> Which instrument can cover any sound imaginable, or not?
> The Keybaord synthesizer.
A synthesizer can certainly "imitate" any sound imaginable. And typically,
it will sound like an imitation in almost every circumstance especially when
imitating an acoustic instrument with the level of technology that we have
today in synths. Even something as simple as imitating an acoustic guitar
player will sound much like an imitation when strumming, plucking, bending,
etc... If it covers the sound, but does not do it well, then what is your
point?
And BTW, a Conga imitation on a keyboard sound like dogshit. So if you
combine all of the dogshit imitations on a synthesizer and compare them to
the acoustic guitar/electric guitar then the synth wins (assuming it was a
contest of dogshit imitations).
> Which instrument has the largest range?
> The Keyboard.
Largest range of what? dynamics? notes? etc...? if you are referring to
notes, guitar has 114 fretted notes, not including harmonics.
> How many notes can you sound at once on a guitar?
6.
> How many on a keyboard?
Unlimited. What's the point? You can only play one on a flute.
> I never denied, and even admitted the very thing you claim about guitar,
but
> the keyboard is a more versatile instrument.
> Why don't you see that?
yes. The synthesizer is more versatile. It can have a sequencer, you can
program/ layer sounds, you can do all kinds of electronic type editing and
controlling of the parameters. I know, I have owned about 19 keyboards. My
first was the Juno 106 when it first came out.
> Ok I have a question for you?
> If you had play a chord which instrument would be better:
> A monophinc instrument, or a polyphonic instrument.
You can't play a chord on a monophonic instrument. So the polyphonic would
be "better" as you put it.
> The polyphonic instruments would win hands down.
If that is your idea of winning.
> Now extend this to keyboard vs guitar in versatility, and the keyboard
will
> win.
It depends on your definition of versatility, especially in relation to
"music" and "performance". I think that we have different ideas on what
music is.
Joe Moore
> > Have you not read my post?
> > Given all the musical elements, which intrument covers them all?
> > The piano keyboard.
>
> The guitar does not? Name one element that it does not cover. Again, I am
> not sure what guitar players that you are listening to.
Simultaneously. That is my point.
>
> > Which instrument can cover any sound imaginable, or not?
> > The Keybaord synthesizer.
>
> A synthesizer can certainly "imitate" any sound imaginable. And typically,
> it will sound like an imitation in almost every circumstance especially
when
> imitating an acoustic instrument with the level of technology that we have
> today in synths. Even something as simple as imitating an acoustic guitar
> player will sound much like an imitation when strumming, plucking,
bending,
> etc... If it covers the sound, but does not do it well, then what is your
> point?
There are people who have studied the technique of guitar playing, flute,
drums, whatever, and have pulled it off.
> > Which instrument has the largest range?
> > The Keyboard.
>
> Largest range of what? dynamics? notes? etc...? if you are referring to
> notes, guitar has 114 fretted notes, not including harmonics.
Of notes, dynamics, the range of any other instrument. You can compose for
any instrument using the piano. You can't do that as easily on a guitar.
C'mon, those "extra" notes aren't usually pracitcal. "Harmonics" don't
count. Get real.
> > How many notes can you sound at once on a guitar?
>
> 6.
>
> > How many on a keyboard?
at the least 61, full size standard 88.
>
> Unlimited. What's the point? You can only play one on a flute.
This was guitar vs keyboard. (88)
>
> > Ok I have a question for you?
> > If you had play a chord which instrument would be better:
> > A monophinc instrument, or a polyphonic instrument.
>
> You can't play a chord on a monophonic instrument. So the polyphonic would
> be "better" as you put it.
>
> > The polyphonic instruments would win hands down.
>
> If that is your idea of winning.
You're getting it.
So If I wanted a funky walking bass line, comping chords, in a straight
uninterruped eighth not feel, with the melody sometimes in octaves, the
piano would be a better instrument, as this isn't possible with a single
acoustic guitar, or electric for that matter. Not at all at the same time.
Not without help.
I can do this without any other help from another musician.
The keyboard wins. THATS what I mean. This goes for composition, or
performance.
The keyboard is a more versatile instrument. It's all laid out.
> > Now extend this to keyboard vs guitar in versatility, and the keyboard
> will
> > win.
>
> It depends on your definition of versatility, especially in relation to
> "music" and "performance". I think that we have different ideas on what
> music is.
Obviously, perhaps now you get what I'm talking about.
Thrash
> keyboard/piano, than a single guitar. Take the best players on either, and
> the keyboard *will* come out ahead.
> The Piano is the mother of all instruments. Encompassing the whole range of
> an symphonic orchestra.
> No gutairst can cover each element individually, it's one of the limitations
> of the instrument.
> Let's see a guitarist play counterpoint as cleanly as someone on a keyboard.
> Keys win hands down. Period. I never said it was "better", but more
> versatile, and can cover more musical elements.
> You're ignorant if you don't see this.
And a good sequencer is even more versatile than a keyboard, so there.
Thrash