The Human League.. Dare.. Instruments Used
Keith Murray
convert I was intrigued by the sleeve notes which listed the instruments on
the Human League`s early 80s multi platinum album "Dare". The list is as
follows
" Instruments used"
Roland MC8, System700, JP4
Korg 700, Delta
Casio VLT1, M10
Linn LM1
Yamaha CS15
Ok a few questions.
What was each instrument in turn ie which where Synths etc, What was the
Roland System 700 a sequencer ??. The Linn LM1 was a drum machine as I
recall but who made it are they still around and what drum machine can do
this job today?. Was this all Midi gear, did the Synths have Knobs and
buttons for creating each sound individually? How hard were they to
programme, What would be the equivalent set up of synths and drum machines
today to do the same job ie a pc with Cakewalk /Cubase. How much did this
little lot cost originally, what is it worth now assuming its still knocking
around. Can we easily emulate the sounds of these early instuments on our
modern instruments, if so where do we find patches.
A lot of questions I know but i really loved this album and would like to
re-create some of the sounds and feels in my own work.
regards
Keith Murray
dis...@dish.com
incredible tune (even for today) and the synth sound used for the main
riff is so great. I cannot answer any of your questions but I'd love
to know what was used to get that sound.
JD
On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 20:03:47 -0000, "Keith Murray" <kmur...@ford.com>
wrote:
Skittles
> Korg 700, Delta
> Casio VLT1, M10
> Linn LM1
> Yamaha CS15
>
> Ok a few questions.
> What was each instrument in turn ie which where Synths etc, What was the
> Roland System 700 a sequencer ??.
The MC-8 is the sequencer. The System 700 is a very large modular
synthesiser. The "JP4" is the Jupiter 4, Roland's first polyphonic keyboard
(c. 1978).
The other items are all synthesisers too.
> The Linn LM1 was a drum machine as I
> recall but who made it are they still around and what drum machine can do
> this job today?.
Linn went to the wall in the mid-eighties. Last I heard of Roger Linn, he
was working as a designer for Akai. Not many drum machines are made anymore,
but the Boss DR-770 is well worth checking out if you're interested in
buying one. In terms of programmability, the Linn was very basic, so the
answer to your question, "what drum machine can do this job today?" is
"practically anything". If you're talking about samples of the LM-1's actual
individual sounds, I'm sure they're available for download on the Net. Try
Harmony Central.
> Was this all Midi gear
Ha! The MIDI standard wasn't even ratified for another two years. All of the
synthesiser sequencing would have been done via CV and Gate interfaces, with
the MC-8 presumably sending a synchronisation pulse to the LM-1.
> did the Synths have Knobs and
> buttons for creating each sound individually?
Yes. Seek out some photographs on the Web of the front panels of
synthesisers of this era (e.g. the SCI Prophet-5 or the Minimoog), and
you'll get the idea.
> How hard were they to programme
How long is a piece of string? Simple sounds are relatively easy to create,
but complex tones, like the great effects that introduce "Love Action",
probably took days to perfect (although their origins were almost certainly
happy accidents). Programming a big modular synthesiser, such as the System
700, is an inherently involving task.
> What would be the equivalent set up of synths and drum machines today
I suppose any of the current crop of "virtual analogue" synthesisers, such
as the Roland JP-8080, the Korg MS2000, the Clavia Nord Lead 2, the Yamaha
AN1x, or the Access Virus would give you access to a broadly similar aural
palette.
> How much did this
> little lot cost originally, what is it worth now assuming its still
knocking
> around.
The Roland items in particular were top-drawer, and would have cost a pretty
penny (tens of thousands of pounds in the case of the System 700). Something
like a CS-15 isn't particularly sought-after nowadays, so you could pick one
up for perhaps ST£300. Something as rare and wonderful as a fully-equipped
System 700 will have actually appreciated in value, however, and will only
appear for sale once in a blue moon.
> Can we easily emulate the sounds of these early instuments on our
> modern instruments, if so where do we find patches.
I'd suggest you check out the Clavia Micro Modular. It's a tiny box that you
connect to your PC to programme. It sounds utterly fantastic, and there are
lots of example programmes (or "patches", as they're known in the synth
world) available for download from the Clavia website. It's a complex unit,
but it repays careful study.
Skittles
> incredible tune (even for today) and the synth sound used for the main
> riff is so great. I cannot answer any of your questions but I'd love
> to know what was used to get that sound.
No, it's not on "Dare". I remember reading, in an interview with Philip
Oakey, that they simply kept on layering sounds from various synths until
the riff sounded sufficiently cool (or "phat", as I suppose we'd put it
today).
Guy Drieghe D.
Dunno if some of your questions have been answered before, but in case they
weren't, I can fill you in some of the gear.
The MC8 was a very expensive and complicated computer-based sequencer, with
both trigger/gate & CV outputs. You could either put in notes (& velocity,
etc) manually (i.e. type it in), or have some sort of step-sequencing (and
edit this later). Possibly the first of the (commercially available)
hardware/computer-sequencers, and the predecessor to many "rhythm machines".
Its smaller sister was the MC4, a few years later.
Very cool stuff, but totally outdated compared to what's available today.
The System 700 (ą1975) was Roland's answer to both the ARP 2600 and Modular
Moog cabinets. It was housed in a 6-fold cabinet, and was fairly large, even
to the standards of those days. It was fully patchable, and had a preset
standard routing (like the Arp 2600), which could be overridden. It was a
very stable system, but the filters were a bit dull compared to Moogs.
One could assemble a made-to-order system, only restricted by the size and
space of the cabinets. There was also a special "lab-system", which was
about twice as big. I believe Isao Tomita had one of those.
The top-middle cabinet was an incredible sequencer (with more possibilities
than the ARP sequencer), with a 12 x 3 matrix. The smaller top-left/right
cabinets had envelope followers, effects and other neat stuff. Standard: 9
VCO, 2 VCF, 2 VCA, etc... makes for a very fat sound !!
But boy, it was _heavy_ ! (and expensive - ą $20K).
Later on, Roland built the much smaller (and more powerful) System 100.
The JP4 was of course the Jupiter 4 Compuphonic, which was Roland's first
"real" programmable synth (1978). It sounded quite good, even with
restricted polyphony (4 voices) - listen to the guitars and trumpets on
Sexual Healing by Marvin Gaye... The JP4 evolved in the fabulous JP8 (and
later a JP6).
The Korg 700 was a very weird, monophonic 2-voice lead synth (mid 70-ties?).
It had quite nice real-time controls, but best of all: 3 ring modulators !!
The 700 was probably responsible to a large extent for Human League's
typical whailing sound. _If_ you find one, buy it (for the looks)!
The Korg Delta was a pseudo-polyphonic 4-voice synth, with not a lot of
possibilities. Personally, I thought it was terrible sounding. A typical
early 80-ties machine, both in looks and sound (think disco!).
The Linn Drum LM1 (by Roger Linn) (1980?) was the very first sample-based
drum computer, and has set the standard for all what came later. It sounded
really incredible (and probably still does), but came with a very hefty
price tag. Most drums you hear in early 80-ties pop (disco, funk & electro)
were probably LM1's. If you happen to find one, I'd say, sell both your
arms, your kids and your wife for it.... ;-)
As for modern-day emulation, you shouldn't find any problems in emulating
all of the above with any virtual-analog, software-synth or drumbox, except
maybe for the System 700, for which you will need a Nord Modular (or perhaps
also Reaktor). Oh yeah, the K700 could be tricky, because of its 3
ring-modulators and special portamento settings (again, try the Nord
Modular).
One more thing: MIDI wasn't even invented in the late 70-ties (or rather, it
wasn't used yet), but some of these vintage synth can be retro-fitted.
hope that helps a bit, Keith
-= GD2
Keith Murray
Thanks for the enlightenment...any recommendaitions on thr virtual analouge,
software synth....software, what is a good midi drum machine
thanks again
KJM
Guy Drieghe D. <g...@annex.be> wrote in message
news:B6C60A82.2509%g...@annex.be...
Keith Murray
Thanks for the info it will help me tremendously, BTW How much is a Boss
DR-770 and the the virtual anolouge synths you suggested ?
thanks again
KJM
Skittles <do...@tempt.it> wrote in message
news:3aa048a9$0$49163$45be...@newscene.com...
dis...@dish.com
wrote:
>The Linn Drum LM1 (by Roger Linn) (1980?) was the very first sample-based
>drum computer, and has set the standard for all what came later. It sounded
>really incredible (and probably still does), but came with a very hefty
>price tag. Most drums you hear in early 80-ties pop (disco, funk & electro)
>were probably LM1's. If you happen to find one, I'd say, sell both your
>arms, your kids and your wife for it.... ;-)
I agree that the LinnDrum was a pioneer box and sounded incredible but
if I sell both arms, it'll be tough to use it. I'll keep one arm and
one kid but the wife, for sure !
JD
Guy Drieghe D.
Yes, you've got a point there.
Did some more research on the LM1, and it seems that there are only about
500 of them out there... Tough luck finding one -- that brings our list of
things to be sold to: 2 legs, 1 arm, 1 kid, 1 wife and your soul. ;-)
-= Guy D2
David Inglesfield
news:B6C60A82.2509%g...@annex.be...
>
> The Linn Drum LM1 (by Roger Linn) (1980?) was the very first
sample-based
> drum computer, and has set the standard for all what came later. It
sounded
> really incredible (and probably still does), but came with a very
hefty
> price tag. Most drums you hear in early 80-ties pop (disco, funk &
electro)
> were probably LM1's. If you happen to find one, I'd say, sell both
your
> arms, your kids and your wife for it.... ;-)
>
>
As with any sound that is over-used, the Linn sounds became incredibly
annoying after a while. Of course the other machine that was used
a lot in the early 80's was Oberheim's DMX which had more hip hop
credibility than either the LM1 or the Linndrum.
David
--
http://www.huntsman.clara.net
http://www.besonic.com/huntsman
Guy Drieghe D.
Yes, I agree. Nonetheless, the LM1 would be a nice collectors item.
Another nice machine was the sequential TOM, with nice tuning and even a
reverse mode... Not used all that much, I think ?
-= Guy D2
David Inglesfield
Guy Drieghe D. <g...@annex.be> wrote in message
news:B6C80ECD.25EA%g...@annex.be...
> Another nice machine was the sequential TOM, with nice tuning and even
a
> reverse mode... Not used all that much, I think ?
>
Although it was apparently quite an advanced machine in some ways,
I seem to remember it only had stereo outputs so was very restrictive
for studio use. The Sequential DrumTraks had individual outs and
was therefore more popular.
David
--
Chris Woodfield
Manifesto's Jack Dangers, who bought it from Oakey ca. 1990...
"Guy Drieghe D." wrote:
> The System 700 (ą1975) was Roland's answer to both the ARP 2600 and Modular
> Moog cabinets. It was housed in a 6-fold cabinet, and was fairly large, even
> to the standards of those days. It was fully patchable, and had a preset
> standard routing (like the Arp 2600), which could be overridden. It was a
> very stable system, but the filters were a bit dull compared to Moogs.
> One could assemble a made-to-order system, only restricted by the size and
> space of the cabinets. There was also a special "lab-system", which was
> about twice as big. I believe Isao Tomita had one of those.
> The top-middle cabinet was an incredible sequencer (with more possibilities
> than the ARP sequencer), with a 12 x 3 matrix. The smaller top-left/right
> cabinets had envelope followers, effects and other neat stuff. Standard: 9
> VCO, 2 VCF, 2 VCA, etc... makes for a very fat sound !!
> But boy, it was _heavy_ ! (and expensive - ą $20K).
> Later on, Roland built the much smaller (and more powerful) System 100.
-C
BrightBoy
>Manifesto's Jack Dangers, who bought it from Oakey ca. 1990...
That's not true....
Jack Dangers owns their old Roland System 100m modular....
Cheers,
Jeff
Dee Gee
It was a pioneering drum machine and it is absolutely all over the early 80s
Everything from Dare to Tears for Fears, Howard Jones, Yazoo, Depeche `Mode etc etc.
No longer available but to be honest You can find good classic Linn LM1 /9000 samples/instruments