cure for sticky bass buttons?
Zapbailey
My Iorio 120 bass PA has developed some sluggish buttons. I took off the
back cover on the bass side and managed to trace one of them (the C min.
button) to where the button lever contacts the valve lever (I'm sure this isn't
the proper terminology-sorry). I tried polishing the contact surfaces with
metal polish- didn't work. I had a gig to play, so I *very* carefully squirted
the smallest amount possible of WD-40, which worked for 24 hours, and now I'm
back where I started. Any suggestions? The valve springs back into place nicely
when manipulated by hand, and the other part moves freely- it's in the contact
of the two- Thanks in advance
Art Bailey
Jim Watson
Beware of the wd40 - I had a similar problem with the bass action on an
older Excelsior - I used a sicicon (NOT OIL) based lubricant and the
bass section has worked wellever since, and it was really slow and
sticky. A member of this group (technician) also recommended this.
Goodluck
Jim Watson
Michael John Kozak
> Hi Art
> Beware of the wd40 - I had a similar problem with the bass action on an
> older Excelsior - I used a sicicon (NOT OIL) based lubricant and the
> bass section has worked wellever since, and it was really slow and
Agreed. WD40 is pretty much useless with regards to your accordion. A
great short term fix, but in the long term, it makes a big mess. I knew
a technician in Edmonton that spent hours cleaning up someone's bass
buttons and levers because of the WD40 all caked up. If you think it's
sticky now and put some WD40 in there, it will be great for awhile, but
it wind up sticky than you thought imaginable when the oil wears out!
And SML? Truly it means Squeezebox Mailing List in case there are
people who truly didn't know. But there can always be more suggestions
:-) For people on more than one mailing list, it can be great to filter
these messages to another folder in their email program or something. I
can get rid of it if it's a problem, but I think there's more people
wanting it than not.
MJ
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unca-...@sff.net
to the best of my limited knowledge, WD-40 MEANS *water-displacement* formula
#40 (or batch), and only lubes as a secondary effect.. it's also FLAMMABLE in
spray cans so watchout.
Unca
In article <362DA51A...@hockeytape.com>,
mjk...@hockeytape.com wrote:
> gat...@d-and-d.com wrote:
> > Hi Art
> > Beware of the wd40 - I had a similar problem with the bass action on an
> > older Excelsior -
> >
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
smy...@ix.netcom.com
>
> Hi-
>
> My Iorio 120 bass PA has developed some sluggish buttons. I took off the
> back cover on the bass side and managed to trace one of them (the C min.
> button) to where the button lever contacts the valve lever (I'm sure this isn't
> the proper terminology-sorry). I tried polishing the contact surfaces with
> metal polish- didn't work. I had a gig to play, so I *very* carefully squirted
> the smallest amount possible of WD-40, which worked for 24 hours, and now I'm
> back where I started.
You should remove the old oil first,using fabric type Q-tips and
acetone or kerosene.Then apply LPS 1 or other silicone or teflon spray
to the affected region.
Be shure to check everything that moves when you press the affected
button, it may not be binding where you think.
Kimric
Smythe's Accordion Center
Oakland CA
Zapbailey
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post- I'll let you know how it
turns out.
Art Bailey
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>I had a similar problem with the bass action on an
>bass section has worked wellever since, and it was really slow and
Putting my locksmith cap on: That's generally good advice for small-parts
machinery. WD40 is a fine cleanser (but be careful; it does attack some
materials), and has some water-repellant action, but it isn't a lube. The
ideal lubes for metal on metal tend to be the dry silicone microsphere
variety -- think of a million tiny ball bearings and you've got the idea.
They're usually applied as either a liquid or a gel, but the liquid component
evaporates away leaving what amounts to a powder. Tri-Flow is a spray
version which is popular with locksmiths. Radio Shack used to have a
"precision oiler" which was basically a tube of this stuff with a fine needle
to get it to the right spot, which might be a better choice for this kind of
application -- but check the label to make sure they haven't switched to
an oil since then.
Personally I wouldn't recommend oil on anything with small moving parts.
Oil plus dust tends to turn into oil-soaked mud, which is OK on large machines
but not on small ones.
------------------------------------------------------
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
Coming November 14th to Walkabout Clearwater: Moxy Fruvous!
http://www.lovesong.com/walkabout/coffeehouse.html
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
That's another good one.
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>:-) For people on more than one mailing list, it can be great to filter
>these messages to another folder in their email program or something. I
>can get rid of it if it's a problem, but I think there's more people
>wanting it than not.
Those of us with newsreaders that organize posts by subject now get
them split into two groups, one with and one without SML prefix... at
least until we're replying to stuff that's been replied to via the
mailing list.
It's not a serous problem; minor nuisance at most. If it really helps folks,
I won't object.
Michael John Kozak
> them split into two groups, one with and one without SML prefix... at
> least until we're replying to stuff that's been replied to via the
> mailing list.
Maybe Don can fix this on his end then.
w...@snip.net
362D9E...@hiwaay.net>,
jwa...@hiwaay.net wrote:
> Zapbailey wrote:
> >
> > Hi-
> >
> > My Iorio 120 bass PA has developed some sluggish buttons. I took off the
> > back cover on the bass side and managed to trace one of them (the C min.
I have similar problem now on which
I am working past few days.
Accordion bought on auction at eBay.
Very nice body with modern
materials used for valves by
Castelfidardo manufacturer. I had to
take out completely all bass system
which is not so modern. I put it back
together twice. Second time was much
easier. This work lead me to further
discoverry that the valves are too
thin and do not close the air to the
reeds. So, I am installing completely
new pads. This accordion (very nice
- white and red color) will be for my
grand daugher if she will show the
interest in it. Paid for it only $62.
Fixing that in the shop with couple of
other problems would cost around
$500 -$600.
Personal comments:
No wonder that some kid had enough of
that constant noise coming from the
bass side and finaly quit the accordion
all together. It's a shame that
accordion is getting to be only for
well to do or those who can fix it all
kinds of problems themselves.
W.D.
L. McDaniel
"It's a shame that
accordion is getting to be only for
well to do or those who can fix it all
kinds of problems themselves."
Unca (with apologies to R. Crumb),..wrote:
"it was ever thus....."
SNAV88
"It's a shame that accordion is getting to be only for well to do or those who
can fix it all kinds of problems themselves."
Accordions don't cost any more than before, at least not in the USA. Inflation
has caused the prices to rise as it now takes close to $5 to purchase a $1
worth. For those pros who acquired an accordion for $2000 in the old days
around 1960 say, they are now faced with five times that amount today....but
due only to inflation.
Consider what your vehicle cost in 1960 and you'll see that the automotive
industry has gone beyond that "5 times" factor.
But we don't argue that side as the general public looks at it as a commodity
and not a luxury...except for the pro who makes it his business.
As these prices increase, and buying decreases, look for the death of the
accordion manufacturing.One can see this happening today. All that will be left
will be the same old boxes being rebuilt by the remaining knowleable
technicians who have survived the industry for years and qualified to rebuild
those old boxes equal or better than when new.
In anything, the technician is the last to go and if no one supports
his(technician) investment in stock and education and equipment, etc. then
there will be only none, except for those "wannabes" who haven't served that
apprenticeship beside a journeyman for years. Are you complacent to the
industry? Think the accordion will survive under those circumstances?
We have a new "repairer" in this area who "bought the book" and now feels
qualified. Seriously, there's much more to it than that, and while the book
has "some" merit, it is not all encompassing and does contain less than
desirable information measured by the industry's standards. So while one may
find it "expensive" to have their instrument rendered by an expert, consider
the cost you pay for work on your auto at $42 per hour, or a plummer at $55 per
hour or your attorney at $75 and up per hour. This profession is just as
deserving to a decent wage as they are. We all must have our tools and we
sometimes pay dearly for them, as the above do, and stocking up on needed parts
is pertinent as well.
Just some food for thought about the accordion's future....and costs.
Steve's Accordion Shop (Ohio)
srbarete
>
> . . . It's a shame that accordion is getting to be only for well to do or those who can fix it all kinds of problems themselves." W.D.
Hello W.D.
I have to applaud what Steve wrote in respnse to this "personal comment"
and add to it, as W.D.'s statement hits a little too close to home here.
I've spent over 25 years educating myself as a Certified Athletic
Trainer and Licensed Physical Therapist. Add to this thousands of hours
of continuing medical education in manual therapy in order to keep up my
licensures in three states. And not to mention the thousands of dollars
this all has cost me. Now only to have that livelihood taken away from
me over the course of one historic week, by way of managed health care
stepping into play.
With that said, I cried a little and then pulled myself up and changed
professions. I went to school, commuted 100 miles, studied hard for
an academic year and learned the art and science of accordion family
instrument repair, restoration and tuning. I'm one of maybe 24
technicians certified by the only school in the the USA and perhaps the
world, "Accordion-concertina Repair Technicians' Repair School" (ARTS)
in Duluth, Minnesota. It wasn't easy; if anything it was more demanding
and engaging than any medical training I ever received. I'm good at what
I do and I'm proud of my unbending high ethics with regards to care of my
customers' instruments. I'm qualified to work on piano accordions,
button chromatics, concertinas (Anglo, English and Chemnitz), button
diatonics and bandoneons and restore historic instruments (which I
volunteer my time to do at A World of Accordions Museum at the school in
Duluth). What's more, I can play each of these instruments.
Now, after all this, I can't stand by, mute, and let someone casually
make the "personal comment" that W.D. makes so lightly, without some
response. My prices are fair and my work is good. I deserve, as do
others of my profession, to earn a decent living servicing accordion
family instruments! W.D. please reconsider your comments, as they are
obviously not lightly taken.
Lynda Griffith,
Certified Accordion and Concertina Repair Technician
Bovey, MN
Dan Lavry
or those who can fix it all kinds of problems themselves." W.D.
>
> and add to it, as W.D.'s statement hits a little too close to home here.
> others of my profession, to earn a decent living servicing accordion
> family instruments! W.D. please reconsider your comments, as they are
> obviously not lightly taken.
>
> Lynda Griffith,
> Certified Accordion and Concertina Repair Technician
> Bovey, MN
Hi Lynda
Of course, you deserve a good living, respect and more. I also agree with
most of what Steve said.
But the way I read W.D. statement is probably different then the way you
interpret it.
I do not hear WD saying that the prices are high because you are charging
too much, or because the manufacturers are a rip. All I heard is a general
comment, about "gee I really want it, it is getting out of reach".
I relate to what you are saying very well. I know that there are "zillions"
or reeds to tune, and doing it well is of great value. It takes time to
take it apart, fix it ect... In fact, only someone with some general idea
regarding what is inside can really appreciate it.
I also relate to WD statement very well. I do not feel that anyone is
"trying to stick it to me". I am fully aware of the fact that the
instrument has hundreds of parts, wood leather, mechanics and name it. But
at the end of the day, say $10000(US) is a lot of moola for most folks.
What it used to cost 30 years ago does not change the picture. To "add
insult to injury", average income folks may buy a $20000 car because there
are ways to finance it over say 5 years with low interest. But buying an
accordion is a cash deal, or credit cards that always have much higher
interest.
Perhaps Steve is correct in predicting that the gap between "the real
thing" and affordability will not get better. I am sure that a lot of
electronics will take the place of various aspects, but the true reed
instrument will always be "the real thing".
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
srbarete
> . . . I do not hear WD saying that the prices are high because you are
> is a general comment, about "gee I really want it, it is getting out of
> reach".
Perhaps so, but why is he then fixing it himself and complaining to
the newsgroup about the cost of taking it to a shop to have the work done
by a professional?
Yes, I agree that sometimes our instruments of choice are "out of reach".
My PA costs more than my car! I would love to own a Chemnitz and
several button diatonics and a button chromatic, and, and, and... I
guess I wouldn't mind having a Gola while I'm at it. Lucky for me I can
play these instruments on nearly a daily basis, but they cannot go home
with me to practice, so it would be great if I could afford one of each
of my own. But the reality is something very different.
>
> . . . buying an accordion is a cash deal, or credit cards that always
> have much higher interest . . . Perhaps Steve is correct in predicting
> that the gap between "the real thing" and affordability will not get
> better.
It's too bad we don't have an accordion "Best Buy" where we can COMPARE
THE LATEST MODELS and MAKES!! and SAVE BIG MONEY!! and get the instrument
of our dreams with NO MONEY DOWN!! and NO INTEREST and NO PAYMENTS 'til
1999!! :-)
DoN. Nichols
srbarete <srba...@northernnet.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>It's too bad we don't have an accordion "Best Buy" where we can COMPARE
>THE LATEST MODELS and MAKES!! and SAVE BIG MONEY!! and get the instrument
>of our dreams with NO MONEY DOWN!! and NO INTEREST and NO PAYMENTS 'til
>1999!! :-)
Neglecting the actual thrust of your article, I should simply point
out that many of the phrases in the preceeding paragraph, especially in
upper case as they were, tripped the spam filters, so neither your
article,nor the two followups I've already seen, made it into the mailing
list side.
As a matter of fact -- this article of mine will not, either.
Of course, they are in the spam filters simply because they are so
often used in come-ons such as you were parodying above. Just please
remember that too accurate a parody will trip the filters and limit your
distribution.
Squeeze On,
DoN.
--
NOTE: spamblocking on against servers which harbor spammers.
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Donald Nichols (DoN.)|Voice (703) 938-4564
My Concertina web page: | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
SNAV88
(snip)
>folks.
>What it used to cost 30 years ago does not change the picture. To "add
>insult to injury", average income folks may buy a $20000 car because there are
ways to finance it over say 5 years with low interest. But buying an accordion
is a cash deal, or credit cards that always have much higher
>interest.
>Best Regards
>
>Dan Lavry
>
Just as a person can acquire a vehicle by payments over years at low interest,
an accordion* can* be purchased in the same manner as well. Cash and credit
cards or debit cards are the other ways, of course.
"What it cost 30 years ago" does change the picture since the value of the
currency AND the cost value of the vehicle were both lower. In 1960 a fine
vehicle could be had for $2000-$3000 but porportionalely, that has changed
drastically....but not so with accordions.
In 1953, I started a job for $1.05 USA netting me less than the $42 /week
gross. Barring those minimum wage jobs for the menial task force, the rate is
considerably higher. Government equipment operators start at $15.00/hr plus
perks. That's well over $30,000 / year. Alright, I know someone will venture
into those "political" jobs, but these are not "plumb jobs". Mechanics,
plummers, janitors, welders, contractors, electricians, teachers, etc., all
are above that minimum wage position. If not, then its time to do the change
like Lynda did and delve into a better and more secure avenue, as I did as
well. Remember that income has been raised right along with the CPI (consumer's
price index)
and if you're not up there, better think about it.
Just my view from this corner...
Steve
L. McDaniel
craftsman, sometimes called "tech" I get the same thing in my line of work.
I use the 'plumber' analogy... nobody notices the plumbing or plumber till things
start to back up.... and we all know what those 'things' are.....
Keep up the good work!
Unca
SNAV88 wrote:
> w...@snip.net wrote:
>
> "It's a shame that accordion is getting to be only for well to do or those who
> can fix it all kinds of problems themselves."
>
L. McDaniel
thats the way I read it too... not so much as ANYONE trying to gouge, as just
'us poor people box players'.....
I don't belive he meant any offense at the working tech.
Unca
Dan Lavry wrote:
> > > . . . It's a shame that accordion is getting to be only for well to do
> or those who can fix it all kinds of problems themselves." W.D.
> >
> > I have to applaud what Steve wrote in respnse to this "personal comment"
> > and add to it, as W.D.'s statement hits a little too close to home here.
> >My prices are fair and my work is good. I deserve, as do
> > others of my profession, to earn a decent living servicing accordion
> > family instruments! W.D. please reconsider your comments, as they are
> > obviously not lightly taken.
> >
> > Lynda Griffith,
> > Certified Accordion and Concertina Repair Technician
> > Bovey, MN
>
> Hi Lynda
>
> Of course, you deserve a good living, respect and more. I also agree with
> most of what Steve said.
> But the way I read W.D. statement is probably different then the way you
> interpret it.
> I do not hear WD saying that the prices are high because you are charging
> too much, or because the manufacturers are a rip. All I heard is a general
> comment, about "gee I really want it, it is getting out of reach".
>
> I relate to what you are saying very well. I know that there are "zillions"
> or reeds to tune, and doing it well is of great value. It takes time to
> take it apart, fix it ect... In fact, only someone with some general idea
> regarding what is inside can really appreciate it.
>
> I also relate to WD statement very well. I do not feel that anyone is
> "trying to stick it to me". I am fully aware of the fact that the
> instrument has hundreds of parts, wood leather, mechanics and name it. But
> at the end of the day, say $10000(US) is a lot of moola for most folks.
> What it used to cost 30 years ago does not change the picture. To "add
> insult to injury", average income folks may buy a $20000 car because there
> are ways to finance it over say 5 years with low interest. But buying an
> accordion is a cash deal, or credit cards that always have much higher
> interest.
>
> Perhaps Steve is correct in predicting that the gap between "the real
L. McDaniel
then...
Unca.
srbarete wrote:
> > Dan Lavry wrote:
> > . . . I do not hear WD saying that the prices are high because you are
> > charging too much, or because the manufacturers are a rip. All I heard
> > is a general comment, about "gee I really want it, it is getting out of
> > reach".
>
> Perhaps so, but why is he then fixing it himself and complaining to
> the newsgroup about the cost of taking it to a shop to have the work done
> by a professional?
>
> Yes, I agree that sometimes our instruments of choice are "out of reach".
> My PA costs more than my car! I would love to own a Chemnitz and
> several button diatonics and a button chromatic, and, and, and... I
> guess I wouldn't mind having a Gola while I'm at it. Lucky for me I can
> play these instruments on nearly a daily basis, but they cannot go home
> with me to practice, so it would be great if I could afford one of each
> of my own. But the reality is something very different.
> >
> > . . . buying an accordion is a cash deal, or credit cards that always
> > have much higher interest . . . Perhaps Steve is correct in predicting
> > that the gap between "the real thing" and affordability will not get
> > better.
>
> It's too bad we don't have an accordion "Best Buy" where we can COMPARE
> THE LATEST MODELS and MAKES!! and SAVE BIG MONEY!! and get the instrument
> of our dreams with NO MONEY DOWN!! and NO INTEREST and NO PAYMENTS 'til
> 1999!! :-)
>
Dan Lavry
> the newsgroup about the cost of taking it to a shop to have the work done
> by a professional?
Perhaps there is a lack of awareness as to what is inside the instrument.
For years, I did not have a clue and only got interested to find a couple
of years ago. If I were a tuner or repair person I would be very tempted to
always open it up in front of the owner. Perhaps then it would be more
appreciated.
Once you see the couple of "zillions" of reeds, the complicated mechanics
and the rest, perhaps you get to realize that it is not so trivial...
> Yes, I agree that sometimes our instruments of choice are "out of reach".
> My PA costs more than my car! I would love to own a Chemnitz and
> several button diatonics and a button chromatic, and, and, and... I
> guess I wouldn't mind having a Gola while I'm at it. Lucky for me I can
> play these instruments on nearly a daily basis, but they cannot go home
> with me to practice, so it would be great if I could afford one of each
> of my own. But the reality is something very different.
You have the advantage: you can find a dream machine and fix it for
yourself. The advantage is 2 fold:
1. You come across a lot of accordions, so you can a lot wider view of what
is out there
2. You can take all the time (for your own instrument) and do a great
upgrade job.
I (and probably most folks) do not even get to sample too many instruments.
Certainly it is difficult to try various new models and makes without
actually going across the country.
> It's too bad we don't have an accordion "Best Buy" where we can COMPARE
> THE LATEST MODELS and MAKES!! and SAVE BIG MONEY!! and get the instrument
> of our dreams with NO MONEY DOWN!! and NO INTEREST and NO PAYMENTS 'til
> 1999!! :-)
>
Not as funny as it first seems. Actually, I wish folks like yourself would
tell folks like myself a lot more about the advantages and disadvantages of
different makes and models. It would be good to get perspective outside the
manufacturers. Who is better qualified then repair / tuning people?
I also wonder if someone could make some bucks by providing reasonable
financing plan. I have been saving for a very expensive instrument, for
over a year. If the store would give me, say 25% down, and five years at
say %8 interest I would be being it tomorrow at full price (no haggling).
The fact that my credit rating is "pure gold" does not seem to make a
difference. Perhaps the sellers where burnt in the past? Or maybe musicians
have poor reputation or lack of funds? One guy offered a plan with some
down payment, and you have to come up with the rest in 90 days, or else you
will be charged %18!!! This is not what I would call NO INTEREST.
Best regards
Dan Lavry
Dan Lavry
interest,
> an accordion* can* be purchased in the same manner as well. Cash and
credit
> cards or debit cards are the other ways, of course.
Many "give" you a good interest rate for a few month to a year, and then
they raise it real high. I just paid off some of those because as the
Federal interest came down, they kept raising theirs.
> Mechanics, plummers, janitors, welders, contractors, electricians,
teachers, etc., all
> are above that minimum wage position. If not, then its time to do the
change
> like Lynda did and delve into a better and more secure avenue, as I did
as
> well. Remember that income has been raised right along with the CPI
(consumer's
> price index)
> and if you're not up there, better think about it.
Hey Steve, I agree with you, yet you too seem a bit on the defensive. Who
is saying anything about keeping you at low wages? I am not. I am a great
believer in top pay for top work, good pay for good work ect... and to
quote you: "and if you're not up there, better think about it". I hope the
supply /demand provides a good balance for everyone.
Best Wishes
Dan Lavry
Dan Lavry
> Certified Accordion and Concertina Repair Technician
> Bovey, MN
>
Hi Lynda
This a change of subject, but I can nor resist but ask the question, and
hope you will not mind taking a minute to answer:
I heard about the Honer Gola. I heard it is very expansive (I heard $35000)
and very good. I never saw one or talked about it with anyone that played
one. Obviously, I am not in the market for one, but still wonder what the
Gola is like, and what makes it so unique. Can you tell me about it? (I
wonder how much better one can get when comparing against some already
fantastic brand that cost a fraction of such a heavy price tag. Is it so
much superior or is it a status symbol?)
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
w...@snip.net
19981023222351.02430.000002
3...@ng121.aol.com>,
sna...@aol.com (SNAV88) wrote:
> w...@snip.net wrote:
>
> "It's a shame that accordion is getting to be only for well to do or those who
> can fix it all kinds of problems themselves."
>
> has caused the prices to rise as it now takes close to $5 to purchase a $1
> worth. For those pros who acquired an accordion for $2000 in the old days
> around 1960 say, they are now faced with five times that amount today....but
> due only to inflation.
I agree
>
> As these prices increase, and buying decreases, look for the death of the
> accordion manufacturing.One can see this happening today. All that will be left
> will be the same old boxes being rebuilt by the remaining knowleable
> technicians who have survived the industry for years and qualified to rebuild
> those old boxes equal or better than when new.
I agree
>
> In anything, the technician is the last to go and if no one supports
> his(technician) investment in stock and education and equipment, etc. then
> there will be only none, except for those "wannabes" who haven't served that
> apprenticeship beside a journeyman for years. Are you complacent to the
> industry? Think the accordion will survive under those circumstances?
>
I agree. Those who do good job and get
customers deserve high pay!
> We have a new "repairer" in this area who "bought the book" and now feels
> qualified. Seriously, there's much more to it than that, and while the book
> has "some" merit, it is not all encompassing and does contain less than
> desirable information measured by the industry's standards. So while one may
> find it "expensive" to have their instrument rendered by an expert, consider
> the cost you pay for work on your auto at $42 per hour, or a plummer at $55 per
> hour or your attorney at $75 and up per hour. This profession is just as
> deserving to a decent wage as they are. We all must have our tools and we
> sometimes pay dearly for them, as the above do, and stocking up on needed parts
> is pertinent as well.
I am the new "repairer" but I am the
expert already. Why? Because I think
what I do and I do better job for
myself that my former repairer so "
called expert."
But, I agree that not anybody could do
the work on accordions for many. I do
not plan to be one working for profit.
I know what is all about it from fixing
five accordions I bought at eBay. I
did it because I have the background to
do it. Who said that I can't repair my
own accordions! I don't even bought
that book. I don't need it! I make my
own jigs and some tools needed for
my work. I am the inventor for my
own goals!
The only think bothered me a lot why
, so many beautiful and almost new
accordions got to be that way? Who
were repairers of these beautiful
accordions before? Why they were
done so badly by manufacturers that
began to break way ahead of schedule?
Are they provide the same
workmanship to all children's
accordions?
Nobody can fool me now! I know the
giving and the receiving end and I
think that who can do very good job in
that area is very intelligent, good
thinker and deserves all credits in
the world.
Personal comments:
I have nothing against repairers,
accordions, etc. and I bought new
accordin too. I just thougt aloud why
so many new accordions got in such a
bad shape in such a short time.
Abviously, repairers did bad
advertising for themselves in the area
the accordions I purchased came
from. I know from where and this is
enough for me.
srbarete
business, high volume, fast sell wouldn't get through the list's spam
catcher. So, here's the same message re-written so perhaps it will
squeeze through the meat slicer! Lynda
> Dan Lavry wrote:
> . . . I do not hear WD saying that the prices are high because you are
> charging too much, or because the manufacturers are a rip. All I heard
> is a general comment, about "gee I really want it, it is getting out of
> reach".
Perhaps so, but why is he then fixing it himself and complaining to
the newsgroup about the cost of taking it to a shop to have the work done
by a professional?
Yes, I agree that sometimes our instruments of choice are "out of reach".
My PA costs more than my car! I would love to own a Chemnitz and
several button diatonics and a button chromatic, and, and, and... I
guess I wouldn't mind having a Gola while I'm at it. Lucky for me I can
play these instruments on nearly a daily basis, but they cannot go home
with me to practice, so it would be great if I could afford one of each
of my own. But the reality is something very different.
> . . . buying an accordion is a cash deal, or credit cards that always
> have much higher interest . . . Perhaps Steve is correct in predicting
> that the gap between "the real thing" and affordability will not get
> better.
It's too bad we don't have an accordion "Best Buy" where we can "Compare
the Latest Models and Makes!!" and "Save Big Money!!" and get the
instrument of our dreams with "No Money Down!!" and "No Interest and No
Payments 'til 1999!!" :-)
L. McDaniel
>
a sharp equipment leasing company would probably work with a long-time store on
this for those with credit that is "pure gold'.... (that leave most musicians
out I am told....).
Unca
srbarete
"Perhaps there is a lack of awareness as to what is inside the
instrument. . . . If I were a tuner or repair person I would be very
tempted to always open it up in front of the owner. Perhaps then it would
be more appreciated."
Good thought, Dan, except that when a repair technician does that,
they'll perhaps never get to their work! As soon as the instrument is
opened up, then a bizillion questions come to the customer's inquisitive
mind! While I encourage questions and don't mind answering them, it is
good to get to the day's work without distraction! :-)
" . . . I (and probably most folks) do not even get to sample too many
instruments. Certainly it is difficult to try various new models and
makes without actually going across the country."
This is the unfortunate truth. Couple this with the fact that we, as
players, do not know about the instrument we play, and we are fair game
for our local dealers' spin regarding the merits of the instrument they
are trying to sell us, true or not. This was why I first became
interested in what was inside my accordion. I wanted to make an informed
purchase. What is quality? What is best for me? What is the best buy
for my money? These are very difficult questions.
". . . Actually, I wish folks like yourself would tell folks like myself
a lot more about the advantages and disadvantages of different makes and
models. It would be good to get perspective outside the manufacturers.
Who is better qualified then repair / tuning people?"
This is quite true. The unfortunate thing about a forum such as this is
that by picking out make and models to critique, we step on the already
often-crunched toes of the very people who make the instruments we so
badly want. The more they hurt, the higher the prices will go. Ours is
not an easy instrument to make. Better might be to make ourselves
more accomplished players so that we become more aware of our needs.
Ernst Hohner tried to set some standards and bring the industry's
manufacturers together without much success at cohesiveness. He did
develope the Hohner school, which turned out better trained players, who
asked for better music written specifically for accordion, which gave
work to the composers who wrote more demanding music for accordion. As
the music became more demanding, the instruments had to be better, so the
builders had to make better, more refined, instruments. This fostered
better players, more music, better technology and instruments, etc. This
is a process.
"I have been saving for a very expensive instrument, for over a year. If
the store would give me, say 25% down, and five years at say %8 interest
I would be being it tomorrow at full price (no haggling)."
Yes, this is a problem for those of us who cannot just buy it outright.
There is often no competition, therefore the dealers are not under any
pressure to make a better deal. The large high volume businesses give us
credit on our stereo or car because it makes it easy to keep us in their
store and buy - instead of buying across the street! The accordion
business is not so large an industry. Fine and world class instruments
cannot be mass produced. Even mediocre instruments are not easily mass
produced in the way a car or stereo is mass produced.
On the other end of the spectrum is that we as consumers of accordions
want a fine instrument for $100!! To the dealer and manufacturer, we
want alot for nothing! We are famous for that!! It comes back to the
fact that we do not know about our instrument, we are self taught, and to
us the garage sale accordion we bought for $50 is the same as a Gola!
The dealers are locked into agreements to sell specific instruments.
They cannot sell a variety of makes. So, we cannot compare. We want a
new instrument, we buy what they have or travel somewhere else. Then we
must remember what the prior instrument was like when we play another one
2,000 miles away. Comparison over time and distance is not easy.
" . . . The fact that my credit rating is "pure gold" does not seem to
make a difference. Perhaps the sellers where burnt in the past? Or maybe
musicians have poor reputation or lack of funds? . . ."
Perhaps so, but more likely is that the dealers are not large enough to
offer credit plans. Think of the shear size of the stereo or automotive
industries and the number of people employed just by the credit
departments. Accordion dealers are not so large, nor are the
manufacturers.
We are not discussing easy questions with easy answers.
srbarete
"This a change of subject . . . I heard about the Honer Gola. I heard it
is very expansive (I heard $35000) and very good. . . . I wonder what the
Gola is like, and what makes it so unique. Can you tell me about it?"
Hi again, Dan!
There are five classifications of accordions, as distinquished by my
teacher, Helmi Harrington, PhD. These are student, advanced,
professional, fine and world class. Amongst other things, one of the
biggest differences between them is the reed quality. Golas, made by
Gola in particular, are world class instruments having "perfect" reeds.
Golas have reeds that were perfectly tuned when they were installed.
There was no touch tuning as with most other instruments; i.e. there are
no scratch marks. They are pristine and beautiful! Each reed is a
specific size and proportion to give a specific pitch. Each tongue
and plate is a different size from it's neighbors. The tongues were
machined very carefully and then they were hand finished and installed,
never to need tuning with proper care. Please note: hand finished, not
hand made! It would be blasphemy and sacrilege to even think about
scratching and tuning on these reeds! These reeds will respond perfectly
with the slight whisper of air across the tongues and will also sound
true with the biggest blast of air over them.
The result is that the Gola is an accordion with a magnificently wide
dynamic range - the player can play the softest pianissimo followed by
the loudest of fortes, given the skill.
The Gola keyboard and basses are fast, reliable and even throughout.
These instruments are light weight, responsive and a delight to play!
They are in some ways unequalled by other accordions.
Gola was enticed by Ernst Hohner to leave his native Italy and come to
Germany to make the Hohner accordions which bear his name. The Hohner
Morino has a similar history.
srbarete
I WANT NO PAYMENTS TIL "00"... I suspect billing may be a bit sluggish
then...
Good point!! :-)
Macromed5
> Golas have reeds that were perfectly tuned when they
> were installed. There was no touch tuning as with
> most other instruments; i.e. there are no scratch
> marks. They are pristine and beautiful! Each reed is
> a specific size and proportion to give a specific pitch.
> Each tongue and plate is a different size from it's
> neighbors. The tongues were machined very carefully
> and then they were hand finished and installed,
> never to need tuning with proper care. Please note:
> hand finished, not hand made! It would be blasphemy
> and sacrilege to even think about scratching and
> tuning on these reeds! These reeds will respond
> perfectly with the slight whisper of air across the
> tongues and will also sound true with the biggest
> blast of air over them.
>
> The result is that the Gola is an accordion with a
> magnificently wide dynamic range - the player can
> play the softest pianissimo followed by the loudest
> of fortes, given the skill.
>
> The Gola keyboard and basses are fast, reliable and
> even throughout. These instruments are light weight,
> responsive and a delight to play!
Goodness, gracious, how evocative... there goes *my* concentration for the rest
of the day...! 8)
Regards,
John Dowdell
Now playing: Taraf de Haiduks on World Network's disc on Romania, #41...
interesting ensemble work and nice textures, but the accordion is in the
background, and I can't hear the player's individuality. The cover of the CD
has three accordions in a village scene of a dozen musicians, and this may be
the funkiest part of the disc.
Dan Lavry
This is a very worthwhile SA, and I really appreciate it, as I am sure
others do. This sort of a write up has a lot of information not easy to
get. I am glad I asked, and even more glad you answered.
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
> There are five classifications of accordions, as distinquished by my
> teacher, Helmi Harrington, PhD. These are student, advanced,
> professional, fine and world class. Amongst other things, one of the
> biggest differences between them is the reed quality. Golas, made by
> Gola in particular, are world class instruments having "perfect"
reeds......
Dan Lavry
> they'll perhaps never get to their work! As soon as the instrument is
> opened up, then a bizillion questions come to the customer's inquisitive
> mind! While I encourage questions and don't mind answering them, it is
> good to get to the day's work without distraction! :-)
I understand
> " . . . I (and probably most folks) do not even get to sample too many
> instruments. Certainly it is difficult to try various new models and
> makes without actually going across the country."
> This is the unfortunate truth. Couple this with the fact that we, as
> players, do not know about the instrument we play, and we are fair game
> for our local dealers' spin regarding the merits of the instrument they
> are trying to sell us, true or not.... These are very difficult
questions...
The less one knows about accordions, the more difficult it is. I do not
exactly view it as a "local dealer" problem. There is a "local manufacture"
or a representative at one city, or state, then another outlet 3 states
down the road, then another in the Midwest, perhaps a couple in the NY
area... At least one outlet is an Internet mail order... If you want to
try a few makes and models, you better have those "air miles" piled up and
some vacation time. I can not imagine having 10 instruments being shipped
back and forth for trying out proposes.
> The unfortunate thing about a forum such as this is
> that by picking out make and models to critique, we step on the already
> often-crunched toes of the very people who make the instruments we so
> badly want. The more they hurt, the higher the prices will go.
Actually, most folks would want positive recommendations. If one hears that
brand/model so and so is a real good thing, then one will gravitate in such
direction. True, lesser quality stuff will suffer indirectly, and they may
have to either lower prices or increase quality (both good things). The
recommended stuff will get it's just reward, and hopefully, the increase in
volume will help them.
> On the other end of the spectrum is that we as consumers of accordions
> want a fine instrument for $100!! To the dealer and manufacturer, we
> want alot for nothing! We are famous for that!! It comes back to the
> fact that we do not know about our instrument, we are self taught, and to
> us the garage sale accordion we bought for $50 is the same as a Gola!
Some of us learn very quickly that a fine instrument is not cheap. As
always, the less informed has an easier time though there is a lot left to
be desired. I person that never saw a color TV will be real content with
black and white. If you never heard stereo, mono is fine. If you never had
an instrument with good tone, dynamics or good action, your development is
limited by the instrument. Not to say that one may not luck out in a garage
sale, but chances are slim.
> The dealers are locked into agreements to sell specific instruments.
> They cannot sell a variety of makes. So, we cannot compare. We want a
> new instrument, we buy what they have or travel somewhere else. Then we
> must remember what the prior instrument was like when we play another one
> 2,000 miles away. Comparison over time and distance is not easy.
You obviously understand!!! You really hit home with that statement.
> Perhaps so, but more likely is that the dealers are not large enough to
> offer credit plans. Think of the shear size of the stereo or automotive
> industries and the number of people employed just by the credit
> departments. Accordion dealers are not so large, nor are the
> manufacturers.
I guess we can not change the way things are set up.
> We are not discussing easy questions with easy answers.
> Lynda Griffith,
> Certified Accordion and Concertina Repair Technician
> Bovey, MN
>
I certainly do not have the answers. You have answered some of the
questions. These issues are at the core of what is important to us players.
If one is going to have to spend serious money on a new instrument, or for
rebuilding a used one, one wishes to make the right make/model choice (I am
not even touching the specific instrument here). Questions such as "is this
$10000 unit twice as good when compared against the other $5000?" are good
questions. Indeed, the answers are not easy to come by.
Thanks again.
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>If the store would give me, say 25% down, and five years at
Reminder: If you've got a good bank, or better yet a good credit union,
you could talk to them abut getting a loan to buy the instrument. Dealer
financing is a convenience, but even when available it isn't always the
best way to go.
Ralph Stricker
>
>> We are not discussing easy questions with easy answers.
>
>> Lynda Griffith,
>> Certified Accordion and Concertina Repair Technician
>> Bovey, MN
>>
>
>I certainly do not have the answers. You have answered some of the
>questions. These issues are at the core of what is important to us
players.
>If one is going to have to spend serious money on a new instrument, or
for
>rebuilding a used one, one wishes to make the right make/model choice
(I am
>not even touching the specific instrument here). Questions such as "is
this
>$10000 unit twice as good when compared against the other $5000?" are
good
>questions. Indeed, the answers are not easy to come by.
>
>
>Thanks again.
>
>Best Regards
>
>Dan Lavry
>
unless one knows how to play. I have heard Frank Marocco make a $3,000
accordion sound better than most people would sound on a more expensive
instrument. I have to apologize for possibly not being up to speed on
most accordions anymore. I have never heard a Hohner or played a Hohner
that I liked. IMHO
The best sounding reeds that I have ever heard/played were the Catena
reeds of years ago.
I am also of German descent so I certainly am not prejudiced. :-)
Regards,
Ralph Stricker
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
our voices" again... <grin>
The complexity of the instrument does impact both purchase price and
maintainance costs. Maybe the old jokes about the "Stomach Steinway"
have more truth to them than we've thought; pianos are also mechanically
complicated (arguably a bit simpler, but also arguably a bit _more_ fragile),
and also need periodic attention from someone who knows what they're
doing. Yet we rarely hear complaints that pianos and piano tuners are too
expensive, because that's part of the basic assumptions about the instrument.
At least free reeds don't get attacked by mice so often.
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>Thanks Lynda
>
>This is a very worthwhile SA
Worth adding to the Squeezebox FAQ?
srbarete
>
> . . . At least free reeds don't get attacked by mice so often.
I recently started on a complete restoration of an early 1900's 2-row
button diatonic. It has a wooden scroll grille with a section in the the
corner of the grille broken out. The grille cloth was pushed in as well.
When I took the grille off I found a wonderful little package left for
me, as a midnight snack I'm sure! Here were two, only slightly
nibbled-on dog kibbles left behind in a well constructed nest, just for
me, by some thoughtful little mouse!! Yum, perfect with a glass of milk.
srbarete
". . . I have never heard a Hohner or played a Hohner that I liked. IMHO
The best sounding reeds that I have ever heard/played were the Catena
reeds of years ago."
There are only a very few reed makers in the world. Each reed maker
might produce nine qualities of reeds. Each manufacturer, depending on
the model of accordion to be built, and it's predetermined quality (read
price) will select a given quality of reeds for that instrument. Reeds
from the containers marked 1 and 2 will go into their student models,
from containers 3 and 4 into their advanced models, from 5 and 6 into
their professional models, 7 and 8 into their fine models and perhaps 8
and 9 into their world class models. We cannot therefore say that any
reed is better than any other reed without qualifying our statement
regarding the quality of accordion for which we are discussing. For
example, my statements were pertaining to the Gola, an undisputed world
class instrument when it has reeds in their original and pristine
condition. I was not speaking of a Hohner Corona II nor was I speaking
of a war time Hohner model.
Perhaps you have only heard and played some lesser quality Hohners and
compared these to higher quality instruments with Catena reeds. With all
due respect, Ralph, this is comparing apples to oranges. It doesn't
work.
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>The $10,000 accordion will not sound any better than the $5,000 one,
>unless one knows how to play.
There's something to be said for a more expensive instrument challenging
you to play better, and rewarding you when you do. If it's also more
responsive, it may in fact help you learn. But yes, a good performer on
a bad instrument will sound better than a bad performer on a good
instrument.
Both would cost about the same to maintain properly, right?
Ralph Stricker
writes:
Lynda,
Catena was a reed maker some 30 or more years ago. His was the finest
of all reeds. I am and was not trying to demean any body else's reeds.
I merely said I have not heard or played a Hohner that I liked. The
ones I played were too bulky and heavy. If they have come out with a
better and less bulky accordion, I am not familiar with it.
Regards,
Ralph Stricker
Ralph Stricker
Kesselman, yclept Keshlam) writes:
>
>In <7100me$c...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, bjp...@ix.netcom.com(Ralph
Stricker) writes:
>>The $10,000 accordion will not sound any better than the $5,000 one,
>>unless one knows how to play.
>
>There's something to be said for a more expensive instrument
challenging
>you to play better, and rewarding you when you do. If it's also more
>responsive, it may in fact help you learn.
I would think that you would be challenged to play better with any
instrument. Do you drive better with a Cadillac than you do with a
Ford? :-)
Also a good instrument will not help you to learn. You either want to
learn or don't want to learn. You may be able to showcase your
technique, playing on a better instrument.
Regards,
Ralph Stricker
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>I would think that you would be challenged to play better with any
>instrument. Do you drive better with a Cadillac than you do with a
>Ford? :-)
There's room for disagreement there about how one defines "better"...
<grin>
But I do think the instrument makes a difference. Having invested a goodly
chunk of change in an instrument, I _am_ a bit more motivated to justify
that investment by practicing more often and trying harder. It's a minor
effect, and it won't work for everyone, but it matters to me.
>Also a good instrument will not help you to learn.
But a bad instrument can hinder. Again, I'm playing concertina right
now rather than squeezebox, but... the difference in responsiveness
between the cheap one I started on and the much better instrument
I play now is quite significant. Runs which I had to fight to get out of
the old instrument now come with ease, and it's not just because I've
gotten better, as can be proven by picking up the old box again.
There are "techniques" that just don't work unless the instrument
can keep up with them.
We agree that motivation and dedication are major factors. And
the difference between "good" and "great" instruments is certainly
much narrower than between "adequate" and "good".
But I don't think it can be discounted entirely.
Your milage may vary; void where prohibited by law.
srbarete
Kamphorst wrote:
> I'm interested in the brand of this early 1900's 2-row you
> are working on.
The instrument I was referring to is a Milano Organetto made in Germany.
My customer said her grandfather brought it to the USA from Finland
early in the century. It is a 2-row 21 buttons/ 8 bass (genuine MOP).
It as zinc plates and brass reeds, hook and latch closures at the frames
with leather bellows closures front and back. I question the validity of
it being brought to the USA by way of Finland as the tin plates at the
corners of the frames have Milano Organetto Made in Germany written in
English - these were usually made for direct export to the USA rather
than for sale in Europe.
>
> . . . a builder of very beautiful
> sounding diatonic boxes (Karel van der Leeuw) organizes
> workshops where you can work on repair and restauration of
> an instrument you own. . . I go there every time I can.
This sounds like a great way to learn. My teacher offers month long
seminars to learn a variety of subjects related to accordion. They too
are a wonderful way to become immersed in things accordion if only for a
short time. She is considering another such seminar this coming Spring.
>
> My old one also has the wooden scrolled grille painted
> off-white with some coloured checkered band. The bellows are
> not pinned but fastened with hooks (right word?). The inside
> of the bellows have a flowery design.
This one has bellows decorated with a simple repeating star design, wall
paper, as so many were of the time. She is not so beautiful as she
stands now, but will soon be beautiful, if I have anything to say about
it!
> . . . It shows the brand name Colibrie and the tuning is F/Bes.
I'm not familiar with the name. From what country does it come, do you
know? This one does not play at all now. She has much work to do to
make her playable. I have discussed with the customer that this will not
play as a primary instrument when it is finished, but she is adamant
about restoring it as it was her grandfather's, if only to play it on
occasion.
>
> The bellows are good again. I'm now busy at home restoring
> the reeds on the bass side. New pads on the valves en the
> treble reeds have to wait for a while.
Good luck with her! Is there anything else you wanted to know about this
instrument?
srbarete
> . . . Comparing 2 instrument is best done when they are both in front
> of you and you can try
> both "back and forth". All other tests are susceptible to influences
> ranging from your mood on a given day, room acoustics, being tired or
> energetic. . .
Thank you Dan, very well said, and obviously with some authority due to
your profession.
This has been a wonderful day for discussion on the newgroup! Thank you
all. I'm off to Duluth and A World of Accordions Museum again in the
morning. I volunteer my time there for a few days each week in order to
return energy to that which is providing my continued education.
This will be an exciting week as we will be installing a new display unit
which will house about 130 accordions. It is a parallel unit to one on
the other side of the museum which we have already completed and filled
to capacity.
It is a wonderful place with an incredible array of nearly 1000 accordion
family instruments! The acoustics in the room are nearly perfect. Our
performance ensemble has the pleasure of rehearsing there each morning!!
Goodnight all!
Kamphorst
>Joe Kesselman wrote,
>>
>> . . . At least free reeds don't get attacked by mice so
often.
>
>I recently started on a complete restoration of an early
1900's 2-row
>button diatonic. It has a wooden scroll grille with a
section in the the
>corner of the grille broken out. The grille cloth was
pushed in as well.
> When I took the grille off I found a wonderful little
package left for
>me, as a midnight snack I'm sure! Here were two, only
slightly
>nibbled-on dog kibbles left behind in a well constructed
nest, just for
>me, by some thoughtful little mouse!! Yum, perfect with a
glass of milk.
>
>Certified Accordion and Concertina Repair Technician
>Bovey, MN
Lynda,
I'm interested in the brand of this early 1900's 2-row you
are working on.
I don't have your certification and am only playing now for
one and a half year. But a builder of very beautiful
sounding diatonic boxes (Karel van der Leeuw) organizes
workshops where you can work on repair and restauration of
an instrument you own. You pay 30 to 35 dollars (65 dutch
guilders) a sunday and the cost of the used materials. I go
there every time I can.
My old one also has the wooden scrolled grille painted
off-white with some coloured checkered band. The bellows are
not pinned but fastened with hooks (right word?). The inside
of the bellows have a flowery design. The box must be at
least 70 years of age. I bought it from a man in his
seventies who heard his grandfather playing this box when he
(not the grandfather) was a child. When I bought it I got
the original carton box with it (a bit worn although). It
shows the brand name Colibrie and the tuning is F/Bes.
The bellows are good again. I'm now busy at home restoring
the reeds on the bass side. New pads on the valves en the
treble reeds have to wait for a while.
Gert-Jan.
__________________________________________
Diatonisch Nieuwsblad (Diatonic Quarterly)
E-Mail: diatonisch...@tref.nl
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gert-Jan Kamphorst
Korte Ouderkerkerdijk 10 / Ship
1096 AC Amsterdam
The Netherlands
Voice: (+31) 20-6684487
E-Mail: gjak...@tref.nl
________________________
Dan Lavry
> >instrument. Do you drive better with a Cadillac than you do with a
> >Ford? :-)
> But I do think the instrument makes a difference. Having invested a
goodly
> chunk of change in an instrument, I _am_ a bit more motivated to justify
> that investment by practicing more often and trying harder. It's a minor
> effect, and it won't work for everyone, but it matters to me.
I agree. Certainly, the musician ability comes first. But even the best
musician can not play expressive dynamics with an instrument that does not
let you do so. Even the best player can not get a good tone from a bad
sounding instrument. The fact that a good musician can do great stuff
within the limitations of a given instrument is of great credit to such
musician. But I still think that combining such a person with a wonderful
instrument yields the ultimate.
I also suspect that it all has a lot to do with the how wide a scope one
wants to cover. A strictly polka or tango or any other "specific" type
music, can be fulfilled with a more specifically oriented instrument.
Someone told me that Polka requires "punch" and speed of response thus tone
chamber would be a waste. Similarly, a French song without a musette is
like a taco without a tortia. A Jazz player is likely to want good single
reed sounds (bassoon, clarinet?). Perhaps the statement about "lesser
instrument is still adequate" is more so for the "specific" music player,
and less so for those that want to have a "one instrument does it all" (or
does it most).
Of course, this is all my own personal opinion. I claim no expertise. I
took the freedom to open my big mouth in the company of experts, because so
much here is subjective.
I am very pleased with the latest disscutions. Thanks again to all the
participents
Best regards
Dan Lavry
Dan Lavry
> Catena was a reed maker some 30 or more years ago. His was the finest
> of all reeds. I am and was not trying to demean any body else's reeds.
> I merely said I have not heard or played a Hohner that I liked. The
> ones I played were too bulky and heavy. If they have come out with a
> better and less bulky accordion, I am not familiar with it.
> Regards,
> Ralph Stricker
Hi Ralph
I am in the music recording business, and I come in constant contact with
every "how is who" in the industry, and the talk is always sound quality.
In fact my whole life seem to be that single issue of sound quality.
Perhaps the angle is somewhat different, because I make electronics
equipment for recording, playback and processing of sound, yet I learned a
few "basic rules":
1. A comparison is worthwhile when doing an "A-B" test. Comparing 2
instrument is best done when they are both in front of you and you can try
both "back and forth". All other tests are susceptible to influences
ranging from your mood on a given day, room acoustics, being tired or
energetic...
2. Even after careful AB testing, the proof of successes is how much you
like the instrument a few month after using it.
Of course with Audio gear, the goal is "perfect reproduction" so it is more
subjective and scientific then an artistic preference. I wish there was an
absolute scale for accordion quality. On one hand, the lack of such a scale
drives the engineer part of me crazy. On the other hand, it reminds me that
there is another part there, a musician, and it is OK to have individual
taste.
Best Regards from one of your newer and highly enthusiastic Jazz accordion
students
Dan Lavry
Ralph Stricker
Let me try to answer two posts in one. I never said that an instrument
was not important to playing to your potential. What I tried to say is
that a good instrument won't make a bad player better. Naturally if a
player is serious about playing and studying, a good instrument is
important. To say that a person without motivation and or talent will
be inspired by a good instrument is ludicruous.
On the reed matter. It seems that most do not know of the "catena"
reed. I forget his first name (I believe it was Joseph) but his reeds
were acknowledged to be the best ever. I don't believe they have ever
been duplicated. I'm sure that Emil Baldoni (Ace accordion) and
Guiletti (deceased) would remember him and his reeds. The tuner from
Bell Accordion (Aldo) will also remember him.
Regards,
Ralph Stricker
Rick Spano, Toby Hanson
(SNAV88) wrote:
> In anything, the technician is the last to go and if no one supports
> his(technician) investment in stock and education and equipment, etc. then
> there will be only none, except for those "wannabes" who haven't served that
> apprenticeship beside a journeyman for years. Are you complacent to the
> industry? Think the accordion will survive under those circumstances?
>
> We have a new "repairer" in this area who "bought the book" and now feels
> qualified. Seriously, there's much more to it than that, and while the book
> has "some" merit, it is not all encompassing and does contain less than
> desirable information measured by the industry's standards. So while one may
> find it "expensive" to have their instrument rendered by an expert, consider
> the cost you pay for work on your auto at $42 per hour, or a plummer at
$55 per
> hour or your attorney at $75 and up per hour. This profession is just as
> deserving to a decent wage as they are. We all must have our tools and we
> sometimes pay dearly for them, as the above do, and stocking up on
needed parts
> is pertinent as well.
Excellent comments, Steve. Rick Spano apprenticed with his father, Joe,
for over 10 years learning the many intricacies of the accordion business
from repair to sales. He travelled to Italy several times. He stockpiled
parts for everything from ancient Hohners to the most modern of
accordions. It's true that a lot of people can do the simple repairs like
replacing grill cloth or unbending a bass button rod. However, the "brain
trust" of accordion technicians is the group that knows how to do the more
complex and delicate repairs-rebuilding a 1954 Sonola or restoring a 1974
Tonaveri that had been dropped and cracked at one corner. Those are the
kinds of repairs that qualified, experienced professionals can and do
make. Accordionists need to support this kind of expertise because
without it we would be in a very difficult situation.
--
-Rick Spano, Toby Hanson
Spano Accordions/Drums Northwest
http://www.aa.net/spanomusic
"West Coast Offense? They should have called it
the 'Sheboygan Offense'."
-From an NFL Films presentation
smy...@ix.netcom.com
It's odd to hear people complain about the price of accordions.
At this point in history we are awash in good used accordions,the
result of their popularity into the 60's,and then sudden decline.A good
used instrument can often be had for 20% of the same model new.
I was in Mexico city a few years ago,expecting to find cheap used
accordions. I found nothing of the sort,in fact I have sold new
Weltmeisters and used Hohners to Mexicans,who buy them for their friends
back home,because the can't get them there.
Kimric Smythe
Smythes Accordion Center
Oakland CA
L. McDaniel
Unca