concertina to button accordion
rejean chamberland
Looking for advice. Every week my sister and I get together to play
tunes, she on piano accordion, me on (Bastari) 48 button English
concertina. Although I enjoy the concertina I have always covetted my
sister's sound - its rich resonance and power. I won't be learning the
keyboard in this lifetime but I'd like to try something different. What
kind of button accordion would be a sensible switch from/addition to
English concertina, something with a comparable range if possible? I am
a great admirer of Sharon Shannon and like her sound but is it true her
button box is diatonic? I couldn't manage that either, and if it's true,
how does she ever manage a tune like Retour des Hirondelles?
Thanks for any advice
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John Wild
<lau...@ns.sympatico.ca> writes
>
>Looking for advice. Every week my sister and I get together to play
>tunes, she on piano accordion, me on (Bastari) 48 button English
>concertina. Although I enjoy the concertina I have always covetted my
>sister's sound - its rich resonance and power. I won't be learning the
>keyboard in this lifetime but I'd like to try something different. What
>kind of button accordion would be a sensible switch from/addition to
>English concertina, something with a comparable range if possible?
May I suggest you consider a duet concertina? If you are not familiar
with these, there is usually a 'bass' left hand, commonly one octave
below the right hand. This is used for harmonies or chords according to
ability and playing style.
The crane or triumph system is nearest in layout to the english
concertina. I would also recommend the Hayden system, although, as this
is a relatively new system, there are not so many instruments available.
John Wild
--
John Wild
ICA Treasurer/Membership Secretary
For email delete not.this.bit
Chris Timson
>May I suggest you consider a duet concertina? If you are not familiar
>with these, there is usually a 'bass' left hand, commonly one octave
>below the right hand. This is used for harmonies or chords according to
>ability and playing style.
Sound advice, I think. The button box is a diatonic instrument.
Performers like Sharon Shannon succeed in sounding the way they do
mostly by being very good. On the other hand you can get a cheap bb more
easily than a cheap duet. If you are in California have a look in at
Lark In The Morning.
Chris
--
Chris Timson Have concertinas, will travel
and Phone (UK) 01225 863762
Anne Gregson For our home pages and for the Concertina FAQ:
http://www.harbour.demon.co.uk/
DavBarnert
>Looking for advice. Every week my sister and I get together to
>play tunes, she on piano accordion, me on (Bastari) 48 button
>English concertina. Although I enjoy the concertina I have
>always covetted my sister's sound - its rich resonance and
>power. I won't be learning the keyboard in this lifetime but I'd
>like to try something different. What kind of button accordion
>would be a sensible switch from/addition to English concertina,
>something with a comparable range if possible?
The simplest answer might be to get a better English concertina.
Then you don't have to learn a new technique, and you may find
that you are MUCH more satisfied with the sound you are making.
______ /\/\/\/\
<______> | | | | | David Barnert
<______> | | | | | <davba...@aol.com>
<______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y.
<______> \/\/\/\/
Ventilator Concertina
Bellows Bellows
(Vocation) (Avocation)
or...@juno.com
On 15 Feb 1999 14:59:57 GMT gat...@d-and-d.com writes:
>Really-From: davba...@aol.com (DavBarnert)
>
>rejean chamberland wrote:
>
> >Looking for advice. Every week my sister and I get together to
> >play tunes, she on piano accordion, me on (Bastari) 48 button
> >English concertina. Although I enjoy the concertina I have
> >always covetted my sister's sound - its rich resonance and
> >power. I won't be learning the keyboard in this lifetime but I'd
> >like to try something different. What kind of button accordion
> >would be a sensible switch from/addition to English concertina,
> >something with a comparable range if possible?
>
>The simplest answer might be to get a better English concertina.
>Then you don't have to learn a new technique, and you may find
>that you are MUCH more satisfied with the sound you are making.
My guess would be that the biggest differance in sound (resonance/power)
would be single vs. multiple reeds and then secondarily, of course,
chords on the bass hand. I don't think a better concertina will address
the first point as most english concertinas have a single reed per note
and will never sound as "fat" as an accordion. Apparently, a Duet system
might address the second point.
Orest
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Frank B
C#/D (mostly C#D) so between the two diatonic scales she has a full
chromatic scale.
Frank
rejean chamberland wrote in message <36C743C3...@ns.sympatico.ca>...
snip
>I am
>a great admirer of Sharon Shannon and like her sound but is it true her
>button box is diatonic? I couldn't manage that either, and if it's true,
>how does she ever manage a tune like Retour des Hirondelles?
> Thanks for any advice
DoN. Nichols
>
>On 15 Feb 1999 14:59:57 GMT gat...@d-and-d.com writes:
>>Really-From: davba...@aol.com (DavBarnert)
>>
>>rejean chamberland wrote:
>>
>> >Looking for advice. Every week my sister and I get together to
>> >play tunes, she on piano accordion, me on (Bastari) 48 button
>> >English concertina. Although I enjoy the concertina I have
[ ... ]
>>The simplest answer might be to get a better English concertina.
>>Then you don't have to learn a new technique, and you may find
>>that you are MUCH more satisfied with the sound you are making.
>
>My guess would be that the biggest differance in sound (resonance/power)
>would be single vs. multiple reeds and then secondarily, of course,
>chords on the bass hand. I don't think a better concertina will address
>the first point as most english concertinas have a single reed per note
>and will never sound as "fat" as an accordion. Apparently, a Duet system
>might address the second point.
Well ... there is a significant difference in sound between a
Bastari (or Stagi) and an English-construcion English system concertina.
The Bastari/Stagi uses accordion reeds, but only one, so it doesn't have
even the benefit of multiple reeds at once.
The English-construction instrument has a reed of a different shape,
in sound chambers of a different shape, so the characteristic sound is
different. (Also, the response of the reeds in a good one is far superior
to that availble from a Bastari/Stagi.) So -- check one out before deciding
to leap. The quick reeds of a good instrument, coupled with the lighter
endbox construction allows for a lot more modulation of the sound by bellows
control.
Squeeze On,
DoN.
--
NOTE: spamblocking on against servers which harbor spammers.
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Donald Nichols (DoN.)|Voice (703) 938-4564
My Concertina web page: | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Kamphorst
Chris Timson wrote in message ...
|John Wild <i...@johnwild.not.this.bit.demon.co.uk> writes
|>May I suggest you consider a duet concertina? If you are not familiar
|>with these, there is usually a 'bass' left hand, commonly one octave
|>below the right hand. This is used for harmonies or chords according to
|>ability and playing style.
|
|Sound advice, I think. The button box is a diatonic instrument.
|Performers like Sharon Shannon succeed in sounding the way they do
|mostly by being very good. On the other hand you can get a cheap bb more
|easily than a cheap duet. If you are in California have a look in at
|Lark In The Morning.
Sharon Shannon plays the diatonic button box but in Irish system. The two row
are not tuned e.g. C/F (a fourth apart) but Cis/D. The two rows apart are
diatonic but the instument - because of the tuning - can play chromatically. I
mean, you can play it chromatically.
Hope this helps.
Gert-Jan.
__________________________________________
Diatonisch Nieuwsblad (Diatonic Quarterly)
E-Mail: diatonisch...@tref.nl
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gert-Jan Kamphorst
Korte Ouderkerkerdijk 10 / Ship
1096 AC Amsterdam
The Netherlands
Voice: +31 (0)20-6684487
E-Mail: gjak...@tref.nl
________________________
Brian
instrument. It takes some time to learn but it comes much quicker as you
learn to relate your old music knowledge to your new instrument. Alot of
musicians are multi-instrumental. Take the chance, it's not hard after
you get the knack of it. You can be playing new tunes inside a year if
you give it a valiant effort. I've got about 20 tunes on my C#/D
accordion now after 25 years playing PA. Took alot of practice and
patience but now i play both instruments when i practice and put the
same amount of effort into each. I love being able to play both.
Brian
Brian
or...@juno.com
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:39:39 -0400 lau...@ns.sympatico.ca (rejean
chamberland) writes:
>This newsgroup is an education - much appreciated given our remote
>location. I will research all suggestions when in the city next.
>Is there no such thing as a chromatic button accordion (same note on
>push and pull, in case I'm using the wrong term)? One with plenty of
>buttons?
Most certainly there is. It is called a Chromatic Button Accordion
(CBA). If you don't already know your way around the piano keyboard, the
CBA might be an ideal choice for you. Folks who play both say that the
CBA is easier than the piano accordion. I personally can't verify that
statement since I don't play CBA.....maybe someday though.
Orest
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Jonathan & Elsbeth Taylor
The easy, practical, serious and realistic solution is, like people said,
to learn the CBA or BB. However, there is another solution. No-one has ever
actually tried it yet (as far as I know), but it is not totally
unrealistic. This would be to make an instrument that sounded like an
accordion or bandoneon, and perhaps even looked like one (superficially),
but which had a keyboard layout like the English concertina. If made like
an accordeon, the left side would carry not bass chords, but the melody
notes on the lines, like the EC. Perhaps it would be easier to fit an
EC-style keyboard to a bandoneon/Chemnitzer-shaped instrument than to an
accordion-shaped one.
When everyone has finished laughing, I seem to remember hearing somewhere
that Colin Dipper was making a thing that looked like an Anglo, but was
actually a melodeon (2- or 3-row BB). And what about the melodica -- a kind
of harmonica with a piano keyboard?
I also know a guy here in Switzerland who could make such an "accordion-
concertina". His name is Marco Untersee from Goldach (near the Lake of
Constance) and he is developing a line of various types of accordion (PA,
1- to 3-row BB, 4- & 5-row CBA). To minimize production costs without
having to compromise on quality, all these types use as many common
components as possible. A friend of mine has a A/D/G BB and a little G
1-row BB ("Langnauerli") made by him, and has a G/C/F on order. When I
first met Marco, I mentioned that he could probably make an accordion that
played like an EC. I very quickly had to admit that I wasn't serious about
it, because it looked like he would have started to design one on the spot.
He didn't see any basic problem. Who knows -- perhaps one day I might get
back to him on that.
While we're on the subject of weird hybrids -- how about a cross between an
EC, PA or CBA, and bellows-blown bagpipes? A constant airflow, no problems
with long legato passages, and it would need only half the number of reeds,
and could be fitted with free-reed drones to be switched on or off
depending on the key to be played.
Does anyone feel like making one? Or even thinking up a name for it?
Jonathan
On Sunday, February 14, 1999 10:45 PM, rejean chamberland
[SMTP:lau...@ns.sympatico.ca] wrote:
> Looking for advice. Every week my sister and I get together to play
> tunes, she on piano accordion, me on (Bastari) 48 button English
> concertina. Although I enjoy the concertina I have always covetted my
L. McD.
isn't this what you are after here???
Unc.
http://www.newulmtel.net/~musicbrn/geninfo.html#button
BROWNS BUILDS THAT BUTTONTINA
In addition to making concertinas, Browns also builds the BUTTONTINA. This
instrument looks and sounds like a concertina but plays like a 3-Row Button
Accordion. You must see it and try it for yourself to believe how great it
sounds and handles!
Jim Lucas
my previous posting, but:
A few years ago I heard that someone was making MIDI concertinas.
Actually, two somebodies, one in England and one in the Netherlands. You
want a full sound, you can pick an orchestra setting,... or presumably
"accordion". Personally, I'd be interested in such an instrument (*my*
main squeeze is the EC, and I don't mean the European Community). Does
anyone in this group have the details? (Please cc: me directlly if you
post; my server seems to miss a *lot* of the newsgroup postings.)
/Jim Lucas
Jonathan & Elsbeth Taylor <tay...@webshuttle.ch> wrote in article
<01BE5AD3.57D...@webshuttle.ch>...
>
> The easy, practical, serious and realistic solution is, like people said,
> to learn the CBA or BB. However, there is another solution. No-one has
ever
> actually tried it yet (as far as I know), but it is not totally
> unrealistic. This would be to make an instrument that sounded like an
> accordion or bandoneon, and perhaps even looked like one (superficially),
> but which had a keyboard layout like the English concertina. If made like
> an accordeon, the left side would carry not bass chords, but the melody
> notes on the lines, like the EC. Perhaps it would be easier to fit an
> EC-style keyboard to a bandoneon/Chemnitzer-shaped instrument than to an
> accordion-shaped one.
Chris Timson
>No-one has ever
>actually tried it yet (as far as I know), but it is not totally
>unrealistic. This would be to make an instrument that sounded like an
>accordion or bandoneon, and perhaps even looked like one (superficially),
>but which had a keyboard layout like the English concertina. If made like
>an accordeon, the left side would carry not bass chords, but the melody
>notes on the lines, like the EC. Perhaps it would be easier to fit an
>EC-style keyboard to a bandoneon/Chemnitzer-shaped instrument than to an
>accordion-shaped one.
It has been tried, and we have one! The Lachenal Accordeaphone answers
exactly to your description, in that it is large and square, with an
English concertina button layout and an accordion sound, due to the fact
that each note carries 3 reeds, 2 tuned to the same note and a third an
octave lower. You can see pictures of it at
www.harbour.demon.co.uk/tina.faq/images/accphone.htm
Sadly Lachenal, who were after all concertina makers, chose to use
concertina techniques rather than accordion techniques in making. This
included English-type reeds and incredibly detailed joinery to put it
all together. The result was of course that it was way over-engineered
and very expensive. Lachenal made 20 and sold 8 by the time they went
bankrupt - apparently it was the Accordeaphone which bankrupted them. We
know of only 4 still in the world.
So you see that it's not such an odd idea. Lachenal's mistake was to
build it like a giant concertina rather than a small accordion. If
you're looking for a name for your beast, then you could do worse than
resurrect Accordeaphone.
Once, 10 years ago, I was listening to an Italian folk group who had an
English concertina player (very rare in Italy). He had another big
square effort of the same general sort. When I asked him he told me he
had had it specially made for him by Bastari. So there we are.
>When everyone has finished laughing, I seem to remember hearing somewhere
>that Colin Dipper was making a thing that looked like an Anglo, but was
>actually a melodeon (2- or 3-row BB). And what about the melodica -- a kind
>of harmonica with a piano keyboard?
There is a picture of Colin playing his "franglo" at
www.harbour.demon.co.uk/tina.faq/images/dipp.htm
Leon Ashley Peek
Leon Peek
> This would be to make an instrument that sounded like an
> accordion or bandoneon, and perhaps even looked like one
> (superficially),
> but which had a keyboard layout like the English concertina. >
> Jonathan
>
Leon Ashley Peek
or something. Both Lark and Elderly used to show them in
catelogs. The box was the same as their Anglo concertinas,
with different ends. Chords in the left hand and bisonic (I
think).
Leon Peek
L. McD. wrote:
>
> It took me ten minutes of plowing through fertilizer till I found this, but
> isn't this what you are after here???
>
> Unc.
>
> http://www.newulmtel.net/~musicbrn/geninfo.html#button
>
> BROWNS BUILDS THAT BUTTONTINA
> In addition to making concertinas, Browns also builds the BUTTONTINA. This
> instrument looks and sounds like a concertina but plays like a 3-Row Button
> Accordion. You must see it and try it for yourself to believe how great it
> sounds and handles!
>
> Jonathan & Elsbeth Taylor wrote:
>
> > The easy, practical, serious and realistic solution is, like people said,
> > to learn the CBA or BB. However, there is another solution. No-one has ever
> > actually tried it yet (as far as I know), but it is not totally
> > unrealistic. This would be to make an instrument that sounded like an
> > accordion or bandoneon, and perhaps even looked like one (superficially),
> > but which had a keyboard layout like the English concertina. If made like
> > an accordeon, the left side would carry not bass chords, but the melody
> > notes on the lines, like the EC. Perhaps it would be easier to fit an
> > EC-style keyboard to a bandoneon/Chemnitzer-shaped instrument than to an
> > accordion-shaped one.
> >
> > When everyone has finished laughing, I seem to remember hearing somewhere
> > that Colin Dipper was making a thing that looked like an Anglo, but was
> > actually a melodeon (2- or 3-row BB). And what about the melodica -- a kind
> > of harmonica with a piano keyboard?
> >
> > I also know a guy here in Switzerland who could make such an "accordion-
> > concertina". His name is Marco Untersee from Goldach (near the Lake of
> > Constance) and he is developing a line of various types of accordion (PA,
> > 1- to 3-row BB, 4- & 5-row CBA). To minimize production costs without
> > having to compromise on quality, all these types use as many common
> > components as possible. A friend of mine has a A/D/G BB and a little G
> > 1-row BB ("Langnauerli") made by him, and has a G/C/F on order. When I
> > first met Marco, I mentioned that he could probably make an accordion that
> > played like an EC. I very quickly had to admit that I wasn't serious about
> > it, because it looked like he would have started to design one on the spot.
> > He didn't see any basic problem. Who knows -- perhaps one day I might get
> > back to him on that.
> >
> > While we're on the subject of weird hybrids -- how about a cross between an
> > EC, PA or CBA, and bellows-blown bagpipes? A constant airflow, no problems
> > with long legato passages, and it would need only half the number of reeds,
> > and could be fitted with free-reed drones to be switched on or off
> > depending on the key to be played.
> >
> > Does anyone feel like making one? Or even thinking up a name for it?
> >
Dan Richardson
Stagi's Organetta Abruzzi is like an anglo.
Michael Berenstein
> http://www.newulmtel.net/~musicbrn/geninfo.html#button
>
> BROWNS BUILDS THAT BUTTONTINA
> In addition to making concertinas, Browns also builds the BUTTONTINA. This
> instrument looks and sounds like a concertina but plays like a 3-Row Button
> Accordion. You must see it and try it for yourself to believe how great it
> sounds and handles!
Isn't it a Hayden duet?
L. McD.
Unc.
Michael Berenstein
> |
> |Sound advice, I think. The button box is a diatonic instrument.
> |Performers like Sharon Shannon succeed in sounding the way they do
> |mostly by being very good. On the other hand you can get a cheap bb more
> |easily than a cheap duet. If you are in California have a look in at
> |Lark In The Morning.
Stop right there, would you?
If you go to Lark in the Morning, JUST LOOK. DON'T BUY ANYTHING!
This store is very expencive and all the sales are final.
Chris Timson
>If you go to Lark in the Morning, JUST LOOK. DON'T BUY ANYTHING!
>This store is very expencive and all the sales are final.
Actually it was me that wrote what you quoted. You may be right, I don't
know, I'm the wrong side of the Atlantic to judge. All I can say is that
they are a store that carries numerous concertinas sited in CA. Others
will have to comment on the quality of the firm.
Michael Berenstein
> Michael Berenstein <mi...@pixar.com> writes
> >If you go to Lark in the Morning, JUST LOOK. DON'T B
>
> Actually it was me that wrote what you quoted. You may be right, I don't
> know, I'm the wrong side of the Atlantic to judge. All I can say is that
> they are a store that carries numerous concertinas sited in CA. Others
> will have to comment on the quality of the firm.
>
> Chris
Uh, yes, the do have lots of concertinas.
All Stagis, one anglo Lachenal and one english old don't remember the name.
Michael Berenstein
> Can't say anything bad about those folks because I've never done business with
> them, but from the prices I've seen they *are* high.... Try Button Box,
> Elderly, or Homewood, (Bob Tedrow) FIRST.
They're nice people, allow you to try the instruments etc. But what can they do
about the policy and prices?
Kamphorst
Michael Berenstein wrote in message <36D5AAE3...@pixar.com>...
|Kamphorst wrote:
|
|> |
|> |Sound advice, I think. The button box is a diatonic instrument.
|> |Performers like Sharon Shannon succeed in sounding the way they do
|> |mostly by being very good. On the other hand you can get a cheap bb more
|> |easily than a cheap duet. If you are in California have a look in at
|> |Lark In The Morning.
|
|Stop right there, would you?
L. McD.
them, but from the prices I've seen they *are* high.... Try Button Box,
Elderly, or Homewood, (Bob Tedrow) FIRST.
Unc.
Frank B
happy.
Frank
L. McD. wrote in message <36D5E52A...@sff.net>...
L. McD.
Unc.
L. McD.
Unc.
Michael Berenstein wrote:
> "L. McD." wrote:
>
> > Can't say anything bad about those folks because I've never done business with
> > them, but from the prices I've seen they *are* high.... Try Button Box,
> > Elderly, or Homewood, (Bob Tedrow) FIRST.
>
Michael Berenstein
> compete...
> >
> > They're nice people, allow you to try the instruments etc. But what can they do
> > about the policy and prices?
But they don't own the store. Besides, the store is located in kitchy touristy
enclave of San Francisco, and their prices oriented more towards cashy tourists
hungry for souvenirs as it seems. Unfortunately they also sell accordions and
concertinas and obviously miss the market. Who wouold buy a 26 button Lachenal in
need for repair for $1700? Their top end Stagi is for $700+.
Leon Ashley Peek
Either will look for what you want, prep it, and give fair price.
Leon Peek
DavBarnert
>>
>>BROWNS BUILDS THAT BUTTONTINA
>>In addition to making concertinas, Browns also builds the
>>BUTTONTINA. This instrument looks and sounds like a concertina
>>but plays like a 3-Row Button Accordion. You must see it and try
>>it for yourself to believe how great it sounds and handles!
>
>Isn't it a Hayden duet?
Just catching up after being away for a week, but I had to respond
to this from last week.
The description above doesn't sound to me like a Hayden duet (and
I have two of them). The Hayden duet doesn't have chord buttons
on the left, just melody buttons an octave lower than their right-
side counterparts. A 3-Row Button Accordion is more limited as far
as number of keys it can play in, and many 3-Row Button Accordions
give different notes on push and pull, which is not true of the
Hayden. Basic definitions of some of the key words in the names of
the instruments ("3-Row" and "duet") make this a no-brainer: The
Hayden has more than three rows, and you can't play duets on a
3-Row Button Accordion.
______ /\/\/\/\
<______> | | | | | David Barnert
<______> | | | | | <davba...@aol.com>
<______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y.
<______> \/\/\/\/
Ventilator Concertina
Bellows Bellows
(Vocation) (Avocation)
Jim Lucas
<19990303080747...@ng128.aol.com>...
> >>http://www.newulmtel.net/~musicbrn/geninfo.html#button
> >>
> >>BROWNS BUILDS THAT BUTTONTINA
> >>In addition to making concertinas, Browns also builds the
> >>BUTTONTINA. This instrument looks and sounds like a concertina
> >>but plays like a 3-Row Button Accordion. You must see it and try
> >>it for yourself to believe how great it sounds and handles!
> >
> >Isn't it a Hayden duet?
>
> Just catching up after being away for a week, but I had to respond
> to this from last week.
Definitely not a Hayden. If you look at the above-mentioned web page, it
seems pretty clear that the "concertina" referred to is the Chemnitzer
style, radically different in sound and construction from English-descended
types, including the Hayden. So it looks to me like the Buttontina is sort
of the Chemnitzer community's equivalent of Colin Dipper's Franglo. It
would be nice if the description were more detailed.
/Jim Lucas
Roger Gawley
On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Jim Lucas wrote:
> Definitely not a Hayden. If you look at the above-mentioned web page, it
> seems pretty clear that the "concertina" referred to is the Chemnitzer
> style, radically different in sound and construction from English-descended
> types, including the Hayden. So it looks to me like the Buttontina is sort
> of the Chemnitzer community's equivalent of Colin Dipper's Franglo. It
> would be nice if the description were more detailed.
>
> /Jim Lucas
Tell us more about Colin Dipper's Franglo. (Sound like the Eliza program
don't I?) Roger
Chris Timson
>(Sound like the Eliza program
>don't I?)
Why do you think you sound like the Eliza program?
Chris
PS The franglo was originally made at the request of a French player
(whose name I have forgotten, but someone else will know). Basically it
is a melodeon implemented as a concertina, for reasons of portability
mostly, but also for the sound. If you see Colin playing in a session
(happens at Chippenham folk festival usually) then he will most likely
be playing a franglo.
Ian White
> If you see Colin playing in a session
>(happens at Chippenham folk festival usually) then he will most likely
>be playing a franglo.
Or for variety, a C-Serpent!
Ian White
Abingdon, England
Chris Timson
>Or for variety, a C-Serpent!
Indeed so. The first time I ever saw Colin, a while before I got my
first concertina and so knew his name, was on stage at St Johns Smith
Square along with 22 other serpent players in what was reckoned to be
the biggest gathering of such in 200 years. We were there at the behest
of another of our friends who plays the serpent and was up there too.
Small world.