Anglo-concertina requests
Thierry Mayes
(Hello Han !)
A friend of mine has just taken up learning to play the
Anglo-concertina.
He is planning to order a good one now and have it in a few years but
there are a few things he wanted me to ask you before making up his
mind.
-Some makers favour metal ends and other wooden ones. What are the
differences. Advantages ? Drawbacks ?
-He wants a 30 buttons tina but heard that there are various notes
settings to the 3rd row: Lachenal/Bastari - Jeffries - Wheatstone.
Which one to choose and why ?
-Most players have 3-rows. What is the use of the 4th row ?
Is it worth having it ?
Thanks.
Thierry
Thierr...@compuserve.com
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>-Some makers favour metal ends and other wooden ones. What are the
>differences. Advantages ? Drawbacks ?
I'm no expert, but trying to remember what I've read here over the past year:
The metal-ended instruments are reputed to generally have a brighter
and louder sound. They were also sometimes the more expensive instruments,
which _may_ imply better quality reeds.
The variants in the 3rd row of an Anglo are relatively minor on the left
hand; the right hand diverges a bit more. Levy's book asserts that he finds
the Jeffries variant a trifle better, but of course that might reflect his
own performing style. There are a few words on some of the particular
note choices on the Jeffries page of my website, gathered from other
players.
>-Most players have 3-rows. What is the use of the 4th row ?
>Is it worth having it ?
I haven't seen a real 4-row yet. My 38-button has three rows, with
the rows extended outward a bit farther, plus _one_ extra "innermost"
button. Again, I haven't gotten to the point where I'm using all of that
so I can't comment on how close it is to optimal, but the webpage
does show what they all do and you're welcome to join me in
meditating upon it... <grin>
------------------------------------------------------
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
New URL for Walkabout Clearwater Coffeehouse and Chorus:
http://www.lovesong.com/walkabout/
Han Speek
10133...@compuserve.com (Thierry Mayes) writes:
> A few questions to all concertina experts:
> (Hello Han !)
Hi Thierry (yes, this is me !),
>
> A friend of mine has just taken up learning to play the
> Anglo-concertina.
> He is planning to order a good one now and have it in a few years but
> there are a few things he wanted me to ask you before making up his
> mind.
>
> -Some makers favour metal ends and other wooden ones. What are the
> differences. Advantages ? Drawbacks ?
The metal-ended instruments are typically louder, while the wooden-ended ones
have a warmer sound (might be more pleasing to someone who is just getting
started). Be aware though that many wooden-ended instrument are starter-quality
mass-produced instruments, especially the ones that feature the cheap-looking
bone buttons (the ones with wooden ends and metal buttons tend to be decent
quality instruments), while most metal-ended ones are high-end instruments.
If you get a newly-made instrument, like a Suttner or Harrington, the choice
between wooden or metal ends is mainly a matter of taste, not quality.
>
> -He wants a 30 buttons tina but heard that there are various notes
> settings to the 3rd row: Lachenal/Bastari - Jeffries - Wheatstone.
> Which one to choose and why ?
I think the Jeffries is the most efficient (though I have only experienced
Lachenals and Bastaris myself - they are not quite the same, but the
difference is absolutely minor, just 2 notes in the low end), at least this
is the most commonly used layout by those who play Irish music.
>
> -Most players have 3-rows. What is the use of the 4th row ?
> Is it worth having it ?
There are no real 4-row Anglos - if it looks like an Anglo (i.e. slightly bent
vertical rows), but has 4 full rows it's most likely a Duet concertina. [Are
you thinking of that big one I saw someone play in Miltown Malbay ? That was a
Duet.]
There are Anglos that have more than the usual 30 buttons, but these extensions
have only limited use. I don't think it's worth it to pay a lot more money
to get these extra buttons.
>
> Thanks.
You're welcome.
> Thierry
> Thierr...@compuserve.com
>
Han.
--
H. Speek, B.Sc. H.S...@el.utwente.nl
MESA Research Institute http://www.ice.el.utwente.nl/~han/
Univ. of Twente, P.O. Box 217, 7500 AE, Enschede, The Netherlands
ross schlabach
Thierry Mayes <10133...@compuserve.com> wrote in article
<eC5sZ5g...@nih2naab.prod2.compuserve.com>...
> A few questions to all concertina experts:
> (Hello Han !)
>
> A friend of mine has just taken up learning to play the
> Anglo-concertina.
> He is planning to order a good one now and have it in a few years but
> there are a few things he wanted me to ask you before making up his
> mind.
>
> -Some makers favour metal ends and other wooden ones. What are the
> differences. Advantages ? Drawbacks ?
>
Makers did not really favor metal versus wooden ends. Wheatstone made both
wooden and metal ended instruments as did Crabb, Lachenal, and possibly
even Jeffries although I can not confirm that Jeffries made anything other
than metal ended instruments. Frequently, metal ends (and buttons) were
used on the higher quality models. The metal ends of course are more wear
and damage resistant. Metal ends usually, but not always, result in a
brighter sounding instrument. Wooden ended instruments are frequently more
mellow sounding, but wooden fretwork is (was) more fragile and therefore
subject to damage.
Current makers Colin Dipper and Steve Dickinson make both metal and wooden
ended instruments, so you can still choose. Your firend needs to try
instruments to hear the difference (if any) for himself.
> -He wants a 30 buttons tina but heard that there are various notes
> settings to the 3rd row: Lachenal/Bastari - Jeffries - Wheatstone.
> Which one to choose and why ?
There is not much variance to the outer row - just a couple of notes.
Bertram Levy's book "Anglo Concertina Demystified" shows both the Jeffries
and the Lachenal button patterns. Personnally I would suggest that your
friend make his decision based on what he starts with. I have other playing
friends who had Lachenal's first so they ordered their Dippers with the
Lachenal pattern. If he is not going to be playing a Lachenal first, then I
would recommend the Jeffries pattern because it is bacially the same as the
Wheatstone. Bastaris (I have been told) used the Lachenal pattern.
> -Most players have 3-rows. What is the use of the 4th row ?
> Is it worth having it ?
This is personal opinion. There are some anglo concertinas with up to 44
buttons. This is very crowded and results in a heavy instrument because of
the weight of reeds, levers, etc. A regular 30 button instrument is more
than adequate for most players and the 38 button anglo is all that is
normally ever needed. So, no you don't need a 4th row.
Good luck,
Ross
Robert DeVellis
Although I recognize this is purely a matter of personal opinion, there's
a lot to be said for lightness. My Dipper is a 32-button and, despite
specifying that number of buttons myself when I ordered, I really don't
use the extra buttons very often. One of the things I especially like
about the Dipper Clare model is that it's quite light (even with 32
buttons), which results in less fatigue from playing. My metal-ended
30-button Jeffries is noticably heavier and more tiring to play. If your
friend who's ordering the concertina has a specific motivation for
ordering more than the usual 30 or so buttons, then he or she should do
so. Also, if someone should come across a really nice instrument with,
say, 38 or 40 buttons, the extra buttons are certainly no reason (in my
opinion) to turn down an otherwise excellent instrument. But, if ordering
a new box, I would resist the seductive notion that "more is better" when
it comes to the number of buttons.
=====================
Bob DeVellis
Bob_De...@unc.edu
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Jason O'Rourke
>
> I'd like to echo Ross's observation about weight and extra buttons.
> Although I recognize this is purely a matter of personal opinion, there's
> a lot to be said for lightness. My Dipper is a 32-button and, despite
> specifying that number of buttons myself when I ordered, I really don't
> use the extra buttons very often.
yes, I learned on a 30 key, and the extra buttons on a 39 key don't make
much of a difference to the way that I play. The only thing that I
really would like to have is another G#, which some 39 keys do have.
This is very useful when playing in keys like A Maj and E maj, becuase
the G# on a 30 key is (generally) awkwardly placed. Basically, you can
do just about everything you want on a 30 key, some extra buttons might
make it a wee bit easier, but to be honest, I don't make much use of
them. However, I haven't done much experimenting with the 39 key yet,
because it still needs some work before it can be truly appreciated.
One of the things I especially like
> about the Dipper Clare model is that it's quite light (even with 32
> buttons), which results in less fatigue from playing.
Come down to Kelly's Cellars (Belfast) and get yourself a wee workout..!
My metal-ended
> 30-button Jeffries is noticably heavier and more tiring to play.
I would have to recommend 1 or 2 pints of Stout (for anaesthetic
purposes, of course) when in a 'real combat situation.'
If your
> friend who's ordering the concertina has a specific motivation for
> ordering more than the usual 30 or so buttons, then he or she should do
> so. Also, if someone should come across a really nice instrument with,
> say, 38 or 40 buttons, the extra buttons are certainly no reason (in my
> opinion) to turn down an otherwise excellent instrument. But, if ordering
> a new box, I would resist the seductive notion that "more is better" when
> it comes to the number of buttons.
I couldn't agree more. I've never seen a 4 row anglo, and to be honest I
would be a wee bit suspicious as to how they managed to fit all the
works in without some compromises. (after looking inside a 30 key, even
a 39 key looks crowded to me!). I'm sure it can be done, but... At the
end of the day, 30 is all you need, unless you want to get into Bb
rolls, and other highly useful ornamentations...
Isn't it great to be able to get all this feedback from concertina
players... Fair play to yez all! (I'm on great form today). Anyone go to
the Mrs. Crotty memorial festival in Kilrush? I heard it was excellent.
Aall the best folks,
Jason
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason O'Rourke
School of English / Celtic, Queen's University, Belfast
http:/www.qub.ac.uk/english/prometheus.html
Personal home page: http://www.angelfire.com/or/jasonOruairc/
'...[His] musical touch was always capable of melting the most hardened
sinner into moods of mellow softness, or cheering the most downcast
and raising their drooping look of sadness to that of high-strung
hilarity.'
Amanda McKittrick Ros _Irene Iddesleigh_
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Timson
>If he is not going to be playing a Lachenal first, then I
>would recommend the Jeffries pattern because it is bacially the same as the
>Wheatstone. Bastaris (I have been told) used the Lachenal pattern.
>
Have to disagree there. Wheatstone and Lachenal used the same pattern
(and I have owned both). Jeffries was different from either. Don't know
about Bastari.
Chris
--
Chris Timson Have concertinas, will travel
and Phone (UK) 01225 863762
Anne Gregson For our home pages and for the Concertina FAQ:
http://www.harbour.demon.co.uk/
Chris Timson
>If your
>friend who's ordering the concertina has a specific motivation for
>ordering more than the usual 30 or so buttons, then he or she should do
>so. Also, if someone should come across a really nice instrument with,
>say, 38 or 40 buttons, the extra buttons are certainly no reason (in my
>opinion) to turn down an otherwise excellent instrument.
I support what is said here. My main squeeze is a Dickenson/Wheatstone
40-button C/G anglo and a truly wonderful instrument it is too IMHO. Not
for sale at any price. But TAIAP I don't use the extra buttons.
Now John Kirkpatrick last week in a workshop he was running at Whitby
was extolling the virtues of his 40-button because it gave him the
capability to play various keys and chords all on the pull or all on the
push, and thus a lot of flexibility in his playing. However we are
talking about John K here, and few of us (certainly not me) can ever
aspire to his total command of the instrument.
As I say in the FAQ, a thirty button is fine for all normal purposes.
When you get into the expert bracket (right up there with John K) then
go for a 40. On the other hand, if I'd turned down my tina simply
because it had too many buttons then I would have been frankly stupid.
Chris Timson
>Fair play to yez all! (I'm on great form today).
What was that about 2 pints of Guinness? A slight underestimate, I
should have thought!
Cheers,
Jason O'Rourke
>
> Jason O'Rourke <jason....@cableol.co.uk> writes
> >Fair play to yez all! (I'm on great form today).
>
> What was that about 2 pints of Guinness? A slight underestimate, I
> should have thought!
>
you're probably right about the Guinness, maybe it was three... ;-)