Saltarelle vs castanari: Which should I buy?
rei...@clara.co.uk
Pokerwork has slowed down even more than me!), and am considering
either a Catagnari or a Saltarelle. In my price range (approx £1500 /
$2100) I like the fact that the Saltarelles have stops on both treble
& bass; the Castignaris seem to be less versatile that way; on the
other hand most people seem to think that the build quality & sound of
the Castignaris are the best. I would greatly appreciate opinions and
advice. I play a mixture of music: Breton, French, English, Scottish &
some Irish, even some rock tunes (weird but strangely compelling!).
Ned
Frederick C. Druseikis
I've played both brands, on a loaner basis, and over a week at a music
camp. Both were Irish B/C tuned. Excellent construction in both, with
more woodworking on the Castignari. The Castignari - I'm not absolutely
sure of the model - maybe was a Weltmiester (?), with a step keyboard.
It was a very big box. Maybe too big. I've also played a Salterelle
Shamrock-class box, probably a little beyond the price range, but very
nice. Large but manageable. I believe the Nuage (this is the irish
tuned version) is more in the price range; same idea (one fewer set of
reeds)
I have a Brand X with stops similar to the Salterelle Nuage, and frankly
the stops are a bit more trouble than they're worth IMO. I mostly play
in a session; there seems to be more of an appreciation for a
traditional, singly-voiced box among other musicians. If I let it bug
me then I need to decide how the stops should be set for different
tunes, but such distinctions get lost playing in a group. OTOH I can
sound like a concertina when I want to ;)
You know that there is a configuration on the treble side (all the stops
out) that shuts down all the reeds. Its a useless but valid
configuration. This has always bothered me - like a mathematician
injected some perfectly logical structure in an otherwise totally
illogical instrument (B/C anyways).
Stops on basses are a real boon. By dropping out the major 3rd you can
get a tonally correct sound on the minor cords. I like this feature a
lot because it really extends the capabilities of the instrument. And
dropping out the bottom bass note (usually the other stop) makes a very
light sound. Stops on basses are the best reason for stops IMO.
Overall, I think stops are better for a solo player. Do you accompany
morris dancers? - that's a typical application for a D/G Pokerwork in
the US. I don't think I'd try to use a box with stops for that kind of
dance music - in the end all the reeds will be voiced anyway (if you are
outdoors.)
I personally am looking for a little less complexity in my life, so I'd
go with the singly-voiced Castignaris, sized right.
Fred Druseikis
West Columbia, South Carolina
Han Speek
Hi,
Why limit yourself to these 2 brands ? There are a few other brands
out there that deliver as much (or more) quality for the same money.
Specifically I'm thinking of Mengascini, Maugein, and Cairdin - and
possibly Serenellini if you're looking for a good Saltarelle-lookalike
(but they're better !).
Basically, while they are quite nice (especially when coming from a
Hohner :-) the Castagnaris are way overpriced, and their sound isn't
for everyone (dryer than most other brands, and sometimes a bit shrill).
And Saltarelle has had some quality control problems in the past -
though to be honest the new ones seem to be as good, possibly better,
as the original production.
Regards,
Han.
--
Han Speek
E-mail: Han....@philips.com.nomail (Remove nomail to reply)
Bruce Henderson
> Hi Ned,
> I've played both brands, on a loaner basis, and over a week at a music
> camp. Both were Irish B/C tuned. Excellent construction in both, with
> more woodworking on the Castignari. The Castignari - I'm not absolutely
> sure of the model - maybe was a Weltmiester (?), with a step keyboard.
> It was a very big box. Maybe too big. I've also played a Salterelle
> Shamrock-class box, probably a little beyond the price range, but very
> nice. Large but manageable. I believe the Nuage (this is the irish
> tuned version) is more in the price range; same idea (one fewer set of
> reeds)
(Bruce's response)
Hi, Fred. I own two Castignari's. One a "Hascy" - a two row with
three reeds on treble (with a stop on the octave) and a big bass.
It's one of the "big frame" models. My other is a "Bennie" - three
row, two reed and this one is one of the "little frame" models (it's
in the same family as the two row "Tommy" which somehow manages to get
three reeds with a stop to take out the octave on the treble). Both
are wonderful boxes in their own way but the "Bennie" is a rocketship
compared to the "Hascy". If I'd only tried a "Hascy", I'd have said
that the Castignari's are slow but the difference between the two is
purely in the model. And the Hascy has a *big* bass and a wonderful
sound on the treble sound too -- it's just takes a lot of power to
move the air and it's hard to keep up with fast music -- but more than
the air, that bass side is just big and heavy. It takes a lot of
muscle.
The sound is wonderful on both boxes. The Hascy is ten years old
and still sounds new - the Bennie is four years old, has been played
hard and is still perfect. I've wondered about the quality though.
The Hascy has never given me a moment's trouble, but in the four
years, the Bennie has lost two leathers off the bass side and had a
bass button linkage fall apart and fall out of the bass side (who
decided to hold the main pivot together with rubber rings? I've seen
crackheads on that "COPS" video show who show better judgment that
THAT!)
So, my advice would be to try one of the "Tommy" Castignari's in
B/C. It has the advantage of having three reeds on the treble side.
I assume that you could get the bass side set up like you like it.
I've never been impressed with the bass on the Tommy but I gather that
bass in Irish music is one of your least important features. Of
course, to be absolutely rapid, you could have a Castignari "Lilly" -
that's the one reed two row. It's tiny and will play very rapidly.
But the single reed gives it a "concertina sound" which will be quite
different form the "wet" Irish sound.
(In addition, I think that Castignari has a fair range of models
with flat treble keyboards and Irish tuning in their B/C and other
"single step" tuned boxes. There are a range of reed configurations,
frame sizes, etc.)
> Stops on basses are a real boon. By dropping out the major 3rd you can
> get a tonally correct sound on the minor cords. I like this feature a
> lot because it really extends the capabilities of the instrument. And
> dropping out the bottom bass note (usually the other stop) makes a very
> light sound. Stops on basses are the best reason for stops IMO.
(Bruce's response)
Totally agree. The stop for thirds on the bass are available on the
Hascy but my instrument didn't have them when I bought it. I've been
sorry that I didn't have one made with the stops ever since. The stop
isn't available on the Bennie, although I wish it was. I'm not sure
if the Tommy can be configured with a third stop on the bass.
> Overall, I think stops are better for a solo player. Do you accompany
> morris dancers? - that's a typical application for a D/G Pokerwork in
> the US. I don't think I'd try to use a box with stops for that kind of
> dance music - in the end all the reeds will be voiced anyway (if you are
> outdoors.)
(Bruce's response)
Come on, *nobody* is dorky enough to be a Morris musician!
(Although, another musician who plays for the team that I play for has
one of the black Saltarelle's with the small forest of stops out the
top. When he's playing for Morris all the stops are up - except it's
helpful to have the third stop then, too. There is also a bass stop
to take out the low bass fundamental, which greatly reduces the amount
of air that's needed. But he also uses the instrument to accompany
singing and for contra and ceilidh dance music and the stops are
useful then.)
> I personally am looking for a little less complexity in my life, so I'd
> go with the singly-voiced Castignaris, sized right.
> Fred Druseikis West Columbia, South Carolina
> rei...@clara.co.uk wrote:
> > I'm gearing myself up to buy a new diatonic box (my very ancient
> > Pokerwork has slowed down even more than me!), and am considering
> > either a Catagnari or a Saltarelle. (Snip) Ned
Lester
I own both a Tommy and a Lilly and fully support Bruce's views. As to the
thirds in the chords I have solved the problem on my Tommy by just taping
then out permanently, seems to me its better not to have them than to have
them gives far more scope and allows you to pi** other D/G players off by
playing in A Min and B Min :-).
--
___________________
Lester Bailey
les...@lesterbailey.org
___________________
"Bruce Henderson" <ncpartis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bc9d727.02052...@posting.google.com...
> "Frederick C. Druseikis" <fdrus...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<3CED867C...@sc.rr.com>...
> > Hi Ned,
<snip>
> So, my advice would be to try one of the "Tommy" Castignari's in
> B/C. It has the advantage of having three reeds on the treble side.
> I assume that you could get the bass side set up like you like it.
> I've never been impressed with the bass on the Tommy but I gather that
> bass in Irish music is one of your least important features. Of
> course, to be absolutely rapid, you could have a Castignari "Lilly" -
> that's the one reed two row. It's tiny and will play very rapidly.
> But the single reed gives it a "concertina sound" which will be quite
> different form the "wet" Irish sound.
<snip>
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Bjcomm9615
exception of a Briggs. They sound great but not as loud as most players would
like , more os a small sessiun box as opposed to a ceili box with more sound.
Salterelles have been coming in great shape these days, much better attention
to detail slightly heavier than the Casti's but good solid boxes just the same.
Best of Luck
Brian
Bruce Henderson
Have you considered a Cairdin? I met the Cairdin people at
Melodeons at Witney last November. I was VERY impressed with their
knowledge and sincerity and willingness to share their "Irish"
experience.
I don't play an "Irish chromatic" instrument, but I did have a
chance to play a couple of their show boxes "on the single row" and
the sound and action seemed absolutely first rate. They were very
open to the idea of different tunings (B/C, C/C# etc.). And there is
anouther great advantage here - if you tell them you want "1958 Paulo
Soprani grey-pearloid sound", you'll get it. And of course, you can
specify other tuning variations (such as "more modern/ less wet" etc.)
and I'm sure that you'd get that, too.
I'm not sure of cost of Cairdin versus Castignari/ Saltarelle, but
my impression was that they were generally competitive. So, from a
position of less than ideal familiarity with the idiom, I was VERY
impressed and I'd suggest you at least have a look at what they have
and what might fit your needs.
Best regards, Bruce Henderson, Alexandria VA USA
Charlie Ball
>attention
>to detail slightly heavier than the Casti's but good solid boxes just the
>same.
>
I play several boxes including a Saltarelle (which if very good). I have also
played a couple of Cairdin boxes. If I ever decide to buy another box, Cairdin
will be at the top of the list.
Nigel Champion
Castagnari and Salterelle owners. From our shared experiences, I can't wait
to save enough to replace my Salterelle with a Castagnari!
Most Salterelles are made down to a price. They often have a marked
difference in sound quality between the two rows. Their quality control
appears to be none-existent:
1. A new Killaloe sent via Ireland leaked like a sieve because the holes in
the baseboard on the melody side were ragged and torn (as though punched
instead of drilled.)
2. Another new Killaloe sent from Australia has developed a split in the
carcase where a joint has come unglued, despite being treated with loving
care.
3. A new A/D/G Cheviot sent from England has C bass reeds where D ones
should be!
4. Another new Cheviot has runs in the paint-work. The paint is very prone
to wear and chipping and the under-lying wood is very soft.
4. Cheviots have such a small carcase that the leathers on the bass reeds
get caught up in the inside folds of the belows and cease to work! Other
models may have this problem.
Having said all that, how does someone like Luke Daniels get such a great
sound from his Salterelle? Are those models specially prepared? Most of
the Castagnaris (and at least one Salterelle) in NZ were from an Aussie
supplier who knows is stuff. He seems to check things very thoroughly
before selling them.
Good luck with your choice but DO try the box before parting with your cash.
That's probably easier for you in the UK but it's impossible on this side of
the world.
All the Best
Nigel
rei...@clara.co.uk wrote in message <3ced0caa...@news.clara.net>...
Mitch Gordon
Wonderful action, very solid construction, beautiful but simple exterior
(unlike the elaborate Castagnari cutout grills), lovely handmade reeds.
Regarding pricing, Cairdin was actually on the cheap side for awhile. In any
case, their pricing is about the same these days as the comparable Saltarelle
and Castagnari models.
One hassle of dealing with Cairdin in the US is that there are only three
dealers that I know of - Chris Moran on the west coast, Jim Coogan on the east
coast, and a third person whose name and location escape me. However, these are
very inexpensive discount dealers, so you'll get a good price. I've dealt with
Chris, and had good dealings both with him and the Cairdin company (they made
good on a tuning issue - the box arrived flat - without question).
One feature of Cairdin boxes that I prefer to most of the Castagnaris and
Saltarelles and Serenelinis...there are accordion style register switches on
the front grill instead of sliders on the top. I find these much easier to
switch around while playing.
Mitch Gordon
Guerneville, CA, US