Accordion or Accordian?
Joe Natoli
Hello everyone,
First let me say that this newsgroup is a wonderful forum for discussion and
distribution of information about the accordion. Thank goodness for the
Internet, because the amounts of meaningful pieces of information that are
exchanged here every day could only have been accomplished in the past by
various focused and costly newsletters which still wouldn't have reached the
masses as effectively. So everyone please keep up the great work. However,
there is one more ingredient that I would like to throw into this pot of
soup. I mean no disrespect to anyone, so I hope my observations are taken in
the constructive light in which they are intended.
If I am wrong about this I will gladly retract this statement, but it appears
that at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the postings submitted to this newsgroup are
spelling the word ACCORDION incorrectly (i.e. with an "ian" instead of an
"ion"). I guess it's an important issue with me because over the years, most
of the newspapers or magazines with which I have been associated, that were
finally going to do a public awareness article of our much maligned
instrument or its performers, had invariably spelled the word incorrectly. It
seems to me that as spokespeople for this instrument, each and every one of
us should at least take the care to understand how to spell our own
instrument. Could we imagine using these spellings for other instruments:
gitar, obo, or floot? Especially in light of the original posting "Accordion
Slammed Big Time Again" and all of the voluminous responses, let me pose this
question: If we as zealots for the accordion take a casual approach to
something as basic as its correct spelling, can we then blame newspapers,
magazines, conductors, or other performers for also taking that same casual
approach? Just some food for thought. Thanks very much for listening and
best wishes to all of you. (Gee I hope I didn't have any typos in this
posting).
Joe Natoli
DoN. Nichols
In article <4votl8$h...@news-e2c.gnn.com>, Joe Natoli <Mid...@gnn.com> wrote:
>Hello everyone,
[ ... ]
>If I am wrong about this I will gladly retract this statement, but it appears
>that at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the postings submitted to this newsgroup are
>spelling the word ACCORDION incorrectly (i.e. with an "ian" instead of an
>"ion").
Well ... aside from the net having a plethora of incorrectly spelled
words in *any* newsgroup (something to do with the more casual nature of the
communications, compared to submitting a letter to a newspaper, or to
another individual), there is also the international nature of the newsgroup
to consider. While we are all typing in English (unless someone has a
translation program to filter the news to us :-), many of the participants i
the newsgroup live in countries where the language is different, and the
local word for the instrument may well be spelled in the form to which you
are objecting. While my spell checker has it as you prefer, I'm willing to
accept just about any recognizable spelling for the sake fo the information
that others have to impart.
> Could we imagine using these spellings for other instruments:
>gitar, obo, or floot?
Well ... as a "conzertina" -- oops concertina (or is that "constant
screamer" player :-), I'm not often directly subjected to the slams.
However, my recent acquisition, a McCann duet system seems to be
subject to some disagreement as to the proper spelling (and I've committed
still another "McAnn" by being too lazy to look it up at one time, prior to
owing one). To add to the difficulty, nowhere on the instrument does it say
"McCann", by *any* spelling. It *does* say "Wheatstone" (the maker), and an
old photocopy of a tutor from Wheatstone in my possession does not mention
it by name, instead just referring to it as the "Duet Concertina". (Then
again, the tutor which I have for the Chemnitzer concertina refers to it as
simply "Concertina". :-)
> Especially in light of the original posting "Accordion
>Slammed Big Time Again" and all of the voluminous responses, let me pose this
>question: If we as zealots for the accordion take a casual approach to
>something as basic as its correct spelling, can we then blame newspapers,
>magazines, conductors, or other performers for also taking that same casual
>approach?
Then again, can we, here on the net, even agree on the correct
spelling, let alone getting everyone to care about it? I feel that in
general, the spelling on this newsgroup is superior to that in *many*
others. Also, I find the spelling of most of those to whom English is a
second language to be better than that of many of the long-time native
speakers.
What I refer to (in a concertina) as "valve flaps" are known as
either "leathers" or "skins", depending on the source. We fairly quickly
discover what is meant, and communication continues, which is the real
purpose of the group, after all.
When I first joined, it was in the form of a mailing list, (the
accordion list) and I had to regularize my spelling of the name to be able
to post to it. The divergent spelling was a minor factor in the choice of
"squeezebox" when we formed the newsgroup, the major factor being to have a
name which was maximally inclusive of all bellows-driven free reed players.
However, as a result, there is no longer a reinforcement of a single
spelling.
Squeeze On,
DoN.
P.S. Given the subject of this thread, I threw the article at my spelling
checker, and discovered that it flagged "McAnn" as wrong (along with
my intentional errors, and a few unintentional ones as well), but
accepted "McCann". A quick check verified that McCann lives in my
system's /usr/dict/words file. I wonder what prompted its inclusion?
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Donald Nichols (DoN.)
Voice Days: (703) 704-2280 | Eves: (703) 938-4564
My Concertina web page: | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Jeroen Nijhof
DoN. Nichols (dnic...@d-and-d.com) wrote:
: [ ... ]
: >If I am wrong about this I will gladly retract this statement, but it appears
: >that at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the postings submitted to this newsgroup are
: >spelling the word ACCORDION incorrectly (i.e. with an "ian" instead of an
: >"ion").
: Well ... aside from the net having a plethora of incorrectly spelled
: words in *any* newsgroup (something to do with the more casual nature of the
: communications, compared to submitting a letter to a newspaper, or to
: another individual), there is also the international nature of the newsgroup
: to consider. While we are all typing in English (unless someone has a
: translation program to filter the news to us :-), many of the participants i
: the newsgroup live in countries where the language is different, and the
: local word for the instrument may well be spelled in the form to which you
: are objecting. While my spell checker has it as you prefer, I'm willing to
: accept just about any recognizable spelling for the sake fo the information
: that others have to impart.
I suspect that mostly Americans are guilty of writing `accordian',
in all other languages (French, German, Dutch,...) it is `accordeon'.
: > Could we imagine using these spellings for other instruments:
: >gitar, obo, or floot?
: Well ... as a "conzertina" -- oops concertina (or is that "constant
: screamer" player :-), I'm not often directly subjected to the slams.
You mean Konzertina?
Jeroen
SNAV88
Joe Natoli wrote:
>spelling the word ACCORDION incorrectly (i.e. with an >"ian" instead of
an "ion"). I guess it's an important issue >with me because over the
years, most of the newspapers >or magazines with which I have been
associated, that >were finally going to do a public awareness article of
our >much maligned instrument or its performers, had >invariably spelled
the word incorrectly. It seems to me >that as spokespeople for this
instrument, each and every >one of us should at least take the care to
understand how >to spell our own instrument.
Indeed, it is very important to exercise the correct spelling regardless
of the language. Remember that Cyrill Demian patented (May 6, 1829) the
instrument he and his sons (Carl and Guido) fashioned as an _ACCORDION_.
Let us all respect the inventors and their wishes.
Note that Cyrill Demian is not spelled "Cyril Damian or Damien or Demian"
as I seen it many times. The former comes from the patented plans along
with his sons names. It must be the correct, for it is in their own
writing.
Our own name is very important to us as it identifies us. It is the one
thing we can we call our own. (Save for those that have the same name as
another). I would no more refer to Faithe Deffner as "Faith" or Alan
Polivka as "Allen" as it would clearly show my nonconcern and ignorance.
While it is true that other languages have various names for the
instrument, and that others are perhaps using phonetic-like spellings
(German - French)......remember.... that it all *translates* back to the
original = ACCORDION. Cyrill Damian wanted it spelled that way.
News media apparently does not review their dictionaries when writing
about the accordion and write 'to the best of their knowledge'. We must
educate them whenever we can. Perhaps the reporter writes 'ian' because
he/she has seen it spelled many time over as 'Accordian' even on business
cards, advertising, or other means.
I believe this is what Mr. Natoli is inferring.....that it is up to us, as
lovers of the instrument, to know how our instrument is spelled, and to
correct all we come in contact with, to clarify and educate them.
Be advised that we have a great accordionist in our midst in Joseph Natoli
and his great love for the instrument. Joseph Natoli is an accordionist
'par excellance' and is a Coupe Mondiale
world winner as well as national champion many times over. If there ever
was another Charles Magnante, IMO, it is Joseph Natoli. He is a
contemporary composer with a compositional masters from the Royal
Conservatory in Toronto, Cananda. But above all, he is a close friend of
mine and I respect him and his concern for the accordion. I write this
paragraph about him because he would be too humble to let you know. He is
a true Artist.
If we are to 'sow seeds' then let them be accurately placed.
Steve Navoyosky
STEVE'S ACCORDION SHOP & ACCORDION SCHOOL OF MUSIC
<Repair-Tune-Rebuild-Customize-Build>
>new & used accordions<
P.O.Box 88 Greenford, Ohio 44422
(330) 332-1111 email: SNA...@aol.com
Hans Palm
> From: Jeroen Nijhof <nij...@th.rug.nl>
> I suspect that mostly Americans are guilty of writing `accordian',
> in all other languages (French, German, Dutch,...) it is `accordeon'.
Here in Sweden, accordion and accordeon have two separate meanings.
Accordion has Stradella basses and accordeon has free basses
(melody basses). Both are called 'Dragspel' (Squeezebox) by most
people, even by accordion/accordeon players.
Hans Palm
Sweden
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Please visit 'Hans Palm's Accordion Page' at
http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-10674/
New: Accordion gallery.
(Pictures of piano and chromatic accordions and even some diatonics)
Joe Natoli
Hi Don,
I couldn't agree with you more, that these newsgroups should be a relaxed
social gathering place for people to share meaningful information without
having to worry about the spelling, grammar, and typo police. It wasn't my
intent to open that "can of worms". Rather, I was focused on one word only.
It seems to me if all of the American dictionaries I have read, as well as
all the publications from the accordion vendors and the various official
accordion associations in the U.S. spell the word "accordion", then
"accordian" is at best non-standard and at worst incorrect.
The point I was really making is that I get very disappointed to see yet
another newpaper or magazine article spell the word incorrectly (usually in
the article's headlines). These people have editing staff dedicated to
catching this type of error, yet they invariably choose to spell it
"accordian". The reason for this error I suspect is a total indifference to
the instrument. I think the operative paradigm (subliminal or not) must be
"It's just an article on the accordian, a rather unpopular and silly
instrument, so we can't be spend the time checking whether or not we've
spelled it correctly." Therefore, the one way we as "zealots" for the
instrument can get the rest of the world to take it a little more seriously
is at least choosing the correct spelling ourselves.
Thanks very much for your response. By the way, I really like your Web site.
Just one question though: I am not viewing it with Netscape right now, and
noticed that most of your fonts are colored Cyan, which is very difficult to
read with the background you've chosen. Is Cyan the displayed color with
Netscape also? Thanks again.
Joe
-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Well ... aside from the net having a plethora of incorrectly spelled
>words in *any* newsgroup (something to do with the more casual nature of
>the communications, compared to submitting a letter to a newspaper, or to
>another individual), there is also the international nature of the
>newsgroup to consider. While we are all typing in English (unless someone
>has a translation program to filter the news to us :-), many of the
>participants in the newsgroup live in countries where the language is
>different, and the local word for the instrument may well be spelled in the
>form to which you are objecting. While my spell checker has it as you
>prefer, I'm willing to accept just about any recognizable spelling for the
>sake fo the information that others have to impart.
>
>
>>Especially in light of the original posting "Accordion Slammed Big Time
>>Again" and all of the voluminous responses, let me pose this question: If
>>we as zealots for the accordion take a casual approach to
>>something as basic as its correct spelling, can we then blame newspapers,
>>magazines, conductors, or other performers for also taking that same
>>casual approach?
>
> Then again, can we, here on the net, even agree on the correct
>spelling, let alone getting everyone to care about it? I feel that in
>general, the spelling on this newsgroup is superior to that in *many*
>others. Also, I find the spelling of most of those to whom English is a
>second language to be better than that of many of the long-time native
>speakers.
> Squeeze On,
> DoN.
Joe Natoli
>Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:54:30 +0200
>From: Hans Palm <hans...@mailbox.swipnet.se>
>To: _The squeezebox mailing list <squee...@cs.cmu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Accordion or Accordian?
>
>> From: Jeroen Nijhof <nij...@th.rug.nl>
>> I suspect that mostly Americans are guilty of writing `accordian',
>> in all other languages (French, German, Dutch,...) it is `accordeon'.
>
>Here in Sweden, accordion and accordeon have two separate meanings.
>Accordion has Stradella basses and accordeon has free basses
>(melody basses). Both are called 'Dragspel' (Squeezebox) by most
>people, even by accordion/accordeon players.
>
>Hans Palm
>Sweden
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I tend to agree with your response. In my experience, "accordeon" has been
used most often to describe the free bass variety, and as you say "accordion"
for the Stradella version. This makes it immediately clear about which
instrument one is speaking without having to continually reiterate the words
"free bass" or "Stradella".
Also, I thank you for the new word "Dragspel". I had never heard that one
before. It has great potential for the name of one of my compositions.
Thanks again for your response.
Joe
Joe Natoli
>Date: 26 Aug 96 13:06:33 EDT
>From: GARY BLAIR <10076...@CompuServe.COM>
>To: Joe Natoli <Mid...@gnn.com>
>Subject: Re: Accordion or Accordian?
>
>No doubt you will get a sack full of mail over the spelling of Accordion!!
>There are various ways to spell Accordion, ie Accordion, Accordian,
> Accordeon,
>none of which are incorrect.
>Cheers
>Gary Blair ( Scotland)
>PS I always spell it '' Accordion'' !!
>
----------------------------------------------------------
Hi Gary,
Thanks for your response. You may have seen Faithe Deffner's posting in
reply to mine that "accordian" is probably more correct in your part of the
world (England, Scotland, Ireland) - like the difference between the American
"check" and the British "cheque". I have also seen "accordeon" and
"akkordeon" in different parts of the world. But in America, no dictionary
that I have read has "accordian" as a proper spelling. Often, popular usage
of a word or spelling will dictate whether or not it is considered correct.
But usually a dictionary will eventually confirm that "correct" usage. When
you replied that "There are various ways to spell Accordion, ie Accordion,
Accordian, Accordeon, none of which are incorrect", are you saying that your
dictionaries confirm your statement by actually listing all of these
spellings as options? Just curious. Thanks again.
Joe
DoN. Nichols
In article <4vtea4$r...@news-e2c.gnn.com>, Joe Natoli <Mid...@gnn.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Don,
>
>I couldn't agree with you more, that these newsgroups should be a relaxed
>social gathering place for people to share meaningful information without
>having to worry about the spelling, grammar, and typo police. It wasn't my
>intent to open that "can of worms". Rather, I was focused on one word only.
>It seems to me if all of the American dictionaries I have read, as well as
>all the publications from the accordion vendors and the various official
>accordion associations in the U.S. spell the word "accordion", then
>"accordian" is at best non-standard and at worst incorrect.
I will certainly accept that.
>The point I was really making is that I get very disappointed to see yet
>another newspaper or magazine article spell the word incorrectly (usually in
>the article's headlines). These people have editing staff dedicated to
>catching this type of error, yet they invariably choose to spell it
>"accordian". The reason for this error I suspect is a total indifference to
>the instrument.
I also agree that for the print media to repeatedly misspell the
name of the instrument is a sign of indifference to the entire field. Of
course, I have been part of an organization which depended on the newspapers
for much of the dissemination of information about musical events that we
were producing, and the number of times that they have gotten major details
incorrect is discouraging. Granted that we were a relatively small
backwater (the world of traditional music) in the face of the much more
organized world of classical music, and the massive juggernaut of popular
music, but I suspect that they were similarly inept in their reporting in
those fields as well. Unless someone *cares*, and it has to be someone in a
position of authority in the newspaper organization, I fear that we won't
get the problem corrected. Unfortunately, the sum of the manufacturers,
sellers, and concert-goers who care about accordions are not sufficient to
have leverage where their money lives.
> I think the operative paradigm (subliminal or not) must be
>"It's just an article on the accordian, a rather unpopular and silly
>instrument, so we can't be spend the time checking whether or not we've
>spelled it correctly." Therefore, the one way we as "zealots" for the
>instrument can get the rest of the world to take it a little more seriously
>is at least choosing the correct spelling ourselves.
I have tried to do this for my own writings, but at first I was
rather confused by the alternative spellings which I encountered.
>Thanks very much for your response. By the way, I really like your Web site.
Considering that it covers a series of instruments only related to
your instrument of choice, I will accept that as rather unexpected praise.
Obviously, I love the concertina family of instruments, and would like to
assist others in keeping them (most of them being antiques) functioning
properly.
>Just one question though: I am not viewing it with Netscape right now, and
>noticed that most of your fonts are colored Cyan, which is very difficult to
>read with the background you've chosen. Is Cyan the displayed color with
>Netscape also? Thanks again.
Cyan is indeed the color displayed with netscape. However, at least
on my system, the background is black, which produces a fairly readable
page, I thought.
Probably, we should take this part to e-mail, so I can find what you
see as the background. It *should* be a mosaic of ebony English concertina
ends, alternating left-hand and right-hand ends. I continue in the
newsgroup for this one remaining cycle to allow others to compare what they
see with what they *should* see.
Prior to the CDA battle, it was a color attempting to mimic
something between rosewood and mahogany (since I seemed incapable of exactly
matching either color with the resolution at my command.) The text color
was adjusted to contrast with that background.
Since I'm viewing it on a Sun workstation's monitor (I also collect
"obsolete" computers, and enjoy putting them to use), what I see may be
quite different from what you see. I know that what I saw using Netscape on
a PC-Clone (PClone in the future) with just a plain VGA card was rather
unreadable, but when I moved to a super-VGA, and matching monitor, the
colors matched what I was seeing on the Sun workstation.
Perhaps it is time to return to the previous color scheme. Please
e-mail me with what you are using to view it, and what you see. Obviously,
the color scheme needs to be adjusted to maximize readability for all.
Thank you,
DoN.
Toby Hanson
>While it is true that other languages have various names for the
>instrument, and that others are perhaps using phonetic-like spellings
>(German - French)......remember.... that it all *translates* back to the
>original = ACCORDION. Cyrill Damian wanted it spelled that way.
A reminder of a phonetic posting of a few months ago...
The English language is not phonetic across the board like Italian or
German. We have pesky unaccented vowels called schwas in English that
necessitate using any old vowel to fill the space. F'rinstance: in
French, there's only one correct way to spell accordion because the
combination of vowels used to make the end of the word is only used for
that sound and conversely, the only letters that represent that sound are
those particular letters. Thus accordeon is the only way to spell the
word in French. Fisarmonica is the only way to spell it in Italian and
Akkordeon in German. I could go on, but you get the point.
Unfortunately, due to the U.S. origins of the Internet, we all use
English, which isn't a language particularly suited to international
communication; it's not a lingua franca like French. The place where
English lets us down is the schwa. There's one at the end accordion which
could be properly represented phonetically by any vowel: accordian,
accordien, accordion, accordiun. To help end the confusion we can look to
words which end with schwas to find an analagous word: Washingtonian,
bandoneon, compendium, and partition. All use basically the same dull
vowel sound followed by a hum-tone consonant. You can see the confusion
inherent in the English language from that example. The last time I
checked, the dictionary listed accordion with an o and an a in the last
syllable. That's due to the lack of a clear phonetic spelling for
accordion. From the purely phonetic standpoint, either spelling is
acceptable. I personally prefer accordion as a spelling because it looks
better on paper than accordian. The reason this happens in English and
not in French or Italian is that English has always adopted outside
spellings along with outside pronunciations. This practice dates back to
the Norse invasions of the 900 A.D. period. It's high point came with the
Norman conquest of 1066 A.D. English has its roots in Middle German,
Middle French, Old Norse, and Celtic. This will be on the final exam.
>News media apparently does not review their dictionaries when writing
>about the accordion and write 'to the best of their knowledge'. We must
>educate them whenever we can. Perhaps the reporter writes 'ian' because
>he/she has seen it spelled many time over as 'Accordian' even on business
>cards, advertising, or other means.
See above about the dictionary. I've begun reminding reporters that it's
spelled -ion in my interviews. Even the reporter who did the big feature
piece on Tom Demski a while back spelled it -ian.
>I believe this is what Mr. Natoli is inferring.....that it is up to us, as
>lovers of the instrument, to know how our instrument is spelled, and to
>correct all we come in contact with, to clarify and educate them.
Agreed.
>Be advised that we have a great accordionist in our midst in Joseph Natoli
>and his great love for the instrument. Joseph Natoli is an accordionist
>'par excellance' and is a Coupe Mondiale
>world winner as well as national champion many times over. If there ever
>was another Charles Magnante, IMO, it is Joseph Natoli. He is a
>contemporary composer with a compositional masters from the Royal
>Conservatory in Toronto, Cananda. But above all, he is a close friend of
>mine and I respect him and his concern for the accordion. I write this
>paragraph about him because he would be too humble to let you know. He is
>a true Artist.
Also Agreed.
--
-Toby Hanson
jtha...@halcyon.com
http://www.halcyon.com/jthanson/main.htm
"Remember趴e may not all be Scandinavian, but we're all Smilin'!"
David Mackay
In article <jthanson-270...@blv-pm0-ip9.halcyon.com>
jtha...@halcyon.com (Toby Hanson) writes:
>In article <4vsasf$3...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, sna...@aol.com (SNAV88) wrote:
>
>>While it is true that other languages have various names for the
>>instrument, and that others are perhaps using phonetic-like spellings
>>(German - French)......remember.... that it all *translates* back to the
>>original = ACCORDION. Cyrill Damian wanted it spelled that way.
[snip]
Could an accordian could be someone that plays an accordeon.
I have heard many English people pronounce the word as accordiUn.
Gosh is it that time already!
God Bless Cyrill et al.
--DaVid
DOKTO...@duq3.cc.duq.edu
Dear Friends,
Is "accordion" really the word Demian used in his patent? Has
anyone actually seen the patent application? I thought German was the
language spoken in early 19th century Austria. If this is correct, the
original spelling might be something more like "akkordeon."
Any comments?
Sincerely,
Henry
SNAV88
DOKTO...@duq3.cc.duq.edu
Date: 31 Aug 1996 20:07:58 -0400 wrote:
>Is "accordion" really the word Demian used in his patent? >Has
>anyone actually seen the patent application? I thought >German was the
>language spoken in early 19th century Austria. If this is >correct, the
>original spelling might be something more like >"akkordeon."
Henry,
If you had read all the threads, you saw my comment about the patent,
which I have a copy. It indeed is handwritten in the 'home language' and
very clearly, and in capital letters,
is the word : ACCORDION.
Even a 'french' book that I have states the contents of that patent
as....... l'accordION (my emphasis). The remainder of the book then
speaks in french tradition as 'accordE'ON' (my emphasis)