Chemnitz Box discussion
sli...@spectra.net
I'd start this thread. It's up to you Chicago/Polish/German
boxplayers to keep it alive.
I've managed to play a few different boxes in my day. Of course, I
have my Star (late 40s), my Patek (late 30s) and my GEM (mid 70s) to
play with. I've also played Hengel, Crowns, Glass, Pearl Queen,
Arnold, Eagle and Grand.
My favorite is my Triple Star, with low switch. Unfortunately it's in
for retune and some rework....I miss that box...
Steve
Steve Litwin
Polka Editor
Polish American Journal
on the web at:
Jason O'Rourke
>
> Since we seldom get any real Chemnitz box discusson here, I thought
> I'd start this thread. It's up to you Chicago/Polish/German
> boxplayers to keep it alive.
>
> I've managed to play a few different boxes in my day. Of course, I
> have my Star (late 40s), my Patek (late 30s) and my GEM (mid 70s) to
> play with. I've also played Hengel, Crowns, Glass, Pearl Queen,
> Arnold, Eagle and Grand.
I remember talking to you at some point about polkas. Did you ever get
to listen to any Irish ones? I think they would be wild different in
their style of playing, but at the end of the day they would be the same
time signature etc. Possibly the only difference is that over here we
know how to dance... ;-)
>
> My favorite is my Triple Star, with low switch. Unfortunately it's in
> for retune and some rework....I miss that box...
>
How long might that take?
slán mór
Jason
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason O'Rourke
School of English / Celtic, Queen's University, Belfast
http:/www.qub.ac.uk/english/prometheus.html
Personal home page: http://www.angelfire.com/or/jasonOruairc/
'...[His] musical touch was always capable of melting the most hardened
sinner into moods of mellow softness, or cheering the most downcast
and raising their drooping look of sadness to that of high-strung
hilarity.'
Amanda McKittrick Ros _Irene Iddesleigh_
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Root
American Chemnitzer in real life (the closest thing I've seen is the
Frankisch Konzertina in Bavaria - only two voices, not quite as many
buttons, same square shape with beveled corners). I do have all sorts
of questions:
I know I've read on the various Chemnitzer web pages mentions of reed
makers whose reeds wre particularly prized. Are most Chemnitzer reeds
hand-made in North America? Are the reeds _the same_ as accordion
reeds, or just more similar than English-construction reeds?
Anyone still making their own reeds?
In the pictures I've seen, the big quads are HUGE. What does one weigh?
What would be some good recordings with Chemnitzer featured fairly up
front, or even solo?
And what's the big deal with the Great Lakes - we hear about the two big
styles, Chicago/Polish and Cleveland/Slovenian. So what's the
Texas/Czech scene, chopped liver?
<8^))
So, until Swannanoa and Augusta offer Central European week...
-Eric "used to know all the words to 'Gde je
sladek', at least when drunk" Root
- Read more non-fiction?! I get enough _non-fiction_ in real life!
sli...@spectra.net
<jason....@cableol.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi Steve, how's it going?
>I remember talking to you at some point about polkas. Did you ever get
>to listen to any Irish ones? I think they would be wild different in
>their style of playing, but at the end of the day they would be the same
>time signature etc. Possibly the only difference is that over here we
>know how to dance... ;-)
Jason,
The time signature in most cases is the same. As a kid, growing up
in the Buffalo area I always watched a television show from Canada
called the "whistle pig" (if I have the name right...it was a long
time ago?) It came from a pub of that name and always featured Irish
groups, accordions, fiddles, etc, playing "polkas."
To me, and my Grandfather is "was" a polka show.
Tempo was faster than what Polish polkas were but the feeling and
excitement were the same.
sli...@spectra.net
wrote:
>I know I've read on the various Chemnitzer web pages mentions of reed
>makers whose reeds wre particularly prized. Are most Chemnitzer reeds
>hand-made in North America? Are the reeds _the same_ as accordion
>reeds, or just more similar than English-construction reeds?
>Anyone still making their own reeds?
Since I've never been close to an "open" English box I'll leave this
question for another, perhaps Don Nichols.
As for :pirzed reeds. I've alway heard stories of boxes being pillaged
for their reeds. Christy Hengel, in Minnesota, supposedly has "empty"
shells lying around minus reeds that are now "tuned" in other boxes.
>In the pictures I've seen, the big quads are HUGE. What does one weigh?
Ah! Depends on the box. 6 lbs, 8 lbs or if you play a CROWN...even
more!!
>What would be some good recordings with Chemnitzer featured fairly up
>front, or even solo?
There are several. Contact me in email and I'll produce a list. Bill
Czerniak of Minnesota has some good recordings. Jerry Darlak and Al
Piatkowski put out a great recording of dual box work.
>And what's the big deal with the Great Lakes - we hear about the two big
>styles, Chicago/Polish and Cleveland/Slovenian. So what's the
>Texas/Czech scene, chopped liver?
Chicago/Buffalo, New England/ Minnesota seemd to be a haven for
Chemnitz box players and that style of music. Minnesota mostly Czech
and German with some Polish bands. Chicago and Buffalo were mainstays
of Polish box players.
Cleveland is hot for Slovenian and more Button Box accordion than
Concertina.
To be honest, as Polka Editor for the PAJ news, I receive very little
info from the Texas area. I have received some recordings from that
area, but not many. And, as for news...hardly any at all.
I reallly have no other thoughts on why it doesn't receive more info.
ko...@pied-crow.com
I'm no American Chemnitzer player, but I am a Chemnitz Chemnitzer
player (reference previous messages), and I have a couple of
questions for any friendly soul with answers.
1) Is the air intake grill on the AmChemntizer in the front or the
back of the instrument? I ask, because the German boxes I own have
them on the back, and they tend to suck in the fabric from my shirt
if I don't constantly remind myself to hold it away from my body.
2) Are good quality AmChemnitzers still being made? Who besides
Star is making them? How do the Stars compare with the better boxes
from the past?
Thanks \TK
DoN. Nichols
>Hi, Steve.
>
>I'm no American Chemnitzer player, but I am a Chemnitz Chemnitzer
>player (reference previous messages), and I have a couple of
>questions for any friendly soul with answers.
>
>1) Is the air intake grill on the AmChemntizer in the front or the
>back of the instrument? I ask, because the German boxes I own have
>them on the back, and they tend to suck in the fabric from my shirt
>if I don't constantly remind myself to hold it away from my body.
Well ... I have only one, and it has the air vent facing the right
armpit. It is an Arno Arnold, so I believe that its origins were in
Chemnitz. However, those on Steve Litwin's web page have the vent facing the
audience.
>2) Are good quality AmChemnitzers still being made? Who besides
>Star is making them? How do the Stars compare with the better boxes
>from the past?
For that, I'll step aside and await the answer from Steve Litwin.
I certainly don't know.
I'm not sure how long this will take to get to you, or even *if* it
will get there. There are a couple of turkeys out there bombing the news
systems with newgroup messages, so very little is getting through.
I'll Cc: you, so you should at least get that copy.
Squeeze On,
DoN.
--
NOTE: spamblocking on against servers which harbor spammers.
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Donald Nichols (DoN.)|Voice (703) 938-4564
My Concertina web page: | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Loren Schaeffler
>
> In article <6s9ds0$q...@izalco.d-and-d.com>, dnic...@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols)
> writes:
>
> >
> > Now -- I have read of Bandoneons, closely related to Chemnitzers,
> >which have a single plate for a whole bank of reeds. This is supposedly a
> >better sounding construction, because there is more mass to anchor the
> reeds<<
>
> Don, This is what we mean by longplate reeds. Most Chemnitzers and
> Bandoneons Pre-early 1940's that I've seen have long plates and its subtle,
> but to my ears they do sound better. Does anybody know when the
> individual accordion type reeds became the most common in these type
> boxes?
Immediately after World War II. Loren......
--
New Website Address
http://prairie.lakes.com/~lorens
Chemnitzer Concertina Information
sli...@spectra.net
<lor...@prairie.lakes.com> wrote:
>The weight of a full size quadruple reed concertina is from about 14 to
>18 lbs. The older triple reed concertinas weigh about 12 lbs. A new
>Hengel weighs 14 lbs. Steve. I think you need to weigh yours again. :)
Loren
My problem, Loren , is that it seems to be lighter each time I play
it. <G>
sli...@spectra.net
<lor...@prairie.lakes.com> wrote:
>H2Osnorkle wrote:
> Does anybody know when the
>> individual accordion type reeds became the most common in these type
>> boxes?
>Immediately after World War II.
Loren
True! They still used long-plate reeds following WWII, didn't they
Loren? I have played Stars with long plates that were made in the
50s.
The long-plate, single block construction, does have a certain
"voice," especially when waved tuned.
Thomas Kostek
>
>>2) Are good quality AmChemnitzers still being made? Who besides
>>Star is making them? How do the Stars compare with the better boxes
>>from the past?
>
I have a new "Old Timer" and its the best I've ever played. It still has
some breaking in to do,
but it is loud with great action and workmanship.
Tom Kostek
Loren Schaeffler
war. Hengels, Star, and others still use long plates. Hengels all have
long plates. Star makes the 'Old Timer' with long plates. Don't know
about the other Star Models. Stradivarius made them either way. Also
Echo, Gem, Wolfe, Royal, Jet, Lido, etc. Loren......
Ken Yagelski
I have seen some slight variaton in Chemnitz box sizes.
My Star Streamline weighs in right around 15 lbs. It measures 11" x 11" x
15" (fully contracted). This seems to be the standard size. This box is a
triple and vents on the front right. This particular model has reeds that
were "modified" by Schuckert to provide an enhanced sound. In fact
Schuckert even relabeled the Star box with their name giving it the Vibrato
Queen title. This is a very smooth playing box with great action. I'm
afraid my talent (or lack thereof) doesn't do it justice.
My Majestic weighs in at 10 lbs. It measures 8" x 8" x 12" (fully
contracted). This box is a double and vents on the front right. This is a
sweet little box in tune with itself. The small size and light weight make
it my favorite for squeezing out a quick tune when I need a pick-me-up.
My brother owns one of my father's old Stars that is very unusual. It is a
monster compared to any other Chemnitz box I've ever seen. It must weigh
more than 20 lbs. and probably measures 15" x 15" x 18" (fully contracted).
This box is also a triple and vents on the right front. I could never
understand the reason for the great size. The keyboard layout was standard
Chemnitz (as are my other two). Could the size been to provide more
"volume" during the days of no electronic amplifiers? My Dad still talks
about the days when his band would play all weekend for the Polish weddings
in the Chicago region. They would meet the bride and groom at the church
and "parade" them to the reception. I can't imagine wearing that big box
for a stroll down the street. After playing there all night, they would
meet up again the next day with the newlyweds family and close friends for a
party to eat and drink all of the prior day's leftovers. Non-stop music the
whole time. Well, okay; they did stop for some food and drink of their own!
Does anyone know the reason for the large size? Some day I plan to take it
to Chicago for the old boys at Star Concertina to look at it and give me the
low down. Describing it to them on the phone only brought a response of
surprise.
My father plays one of the newer Star quads now. It has standard dimensions
of 11" x 11" x 15", but weighs in much lighter, probably around 10 lbs.
This is a priemer box with great action and a super trememlo type reed.
Don't know how they tune 'em to sound like that, but it's wonderful.
Ken Yagelski
ken.ya...@usa.net
squee...@usa.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Root <er...@webtv.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.squeezebox
Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: Chemnitz Box discussion
>Well, I'll stick my nose in this thread although I've never seen an
>American Chemnitzer in real life (the closest thing I've seen is the
>Frankisch Konzertina in Bavaria - only two voices, not quite as many
>buttons, same square shape with beveled corners). I do have all sorts
>of questions:
>
>I know I've read on the various Chemnitzer web pages mentions of reed
>makers whose reeds wre particularly prized. Are most Chemnitzer reeds
>hand-made in North America? Are the reeds _the same_ as accordion
>reeds, or just more similar than English-construction reeds?
>Anyone still making their own reeds?
>
>In the pictures I've seen, the big quads are HUGE. What does one weigh?
>
>What would be some good recordings with Chemnitzer featured fairly up
>front, or even solo?
>
>And what's the big deal with the Great Lakes - we hear about the two big
>styles, Chicago/Polish and Cleveland/Slovenian. So what's the
>Texas/Czech scene, chopped liver?
><8^))
>
>So, until Swannanoa and Augusta offer Central European week...
>
> -Eric "used to know all the words to 'Gde je
>sladek', at least when drunk" Root
>
>
>- Read more non-fiction?! I get enough _non-fiction_ in real life!
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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H2Osnorkle
<lor...@prairie.lakes.com> writes:
>. Stradivarius made them either way. Also
>Echo, Gem, Wolfe, Royal, Jet, Lido, etc. Loren......
>--
Loren,
Are any of the Italian makers like Stradivarius or Gem making boxes today and
which Italian model do you consider the best?
best regards,
Frank Tabor
Loren Schaeffler
around that were never sold however. Only played a couple of Gem
concertina's. Stradivarius made several different models with different
reed sets and tunings. Some are very good. Some not.
Concertina's are like cars. Everyone has their own preference.
My preference is the long plate rectangular reeds with fairly straight
tuning. The only new concertina's built this way are the Hengels. Some
of the Patek's and Pearl Queens with hand filed reeds by John Friedl are
excellent.
There were at least 4 reed makers in this country filing reeds by hand
but Friedl was the best. Most of the concertina reeds came from East
Germany prior to WW II. Some of these were excellent also.
Christy Hengel's goal was to try to make reeds like Friedl did. He never
quite reached that goal. The sound he gets is close but Hengels
instruments take more air. They all play and sound a little different.
Probably take more air than any other brand of concertina.
Friedl took his reed making secrets to the grave with him. How he got
the reed to fit in the plate so consistently close with the tools
available in the mid thirties is a mystery. Concertina's with Friedl
reeds sold for $100 more which was quite a bit of money in the 30's. A
Patek concertina sold for $375. With Friedl reeds it was $475. Otherwise
identical except for the Deluxe nameplate. Loren......
sli...@spectra.net
<lor...@prairie.lakes.com> wrote:
>Concertina's are like cars. Everyone has their own preference.
>My preference is the long plate rectangular reeds with fairly straight
>tuning. The only new concertina's built this way are the Hengels. Some
>of the Patek's and Pearl Queens with hand filed reeds by John Friedl are
>excellent.
Loren, and everyone
How true about boxes. I know players that have purchased new STAR
boxes and returned them immediately. I've watched/heard John Mikos
play a GEM with Push and it sounded great. I've played a Stradi that
sounded like an accordion.
Of course it all depends on the individual and the sound they are
looking for. Lenny Maynard, of Heavy Chi played a Stradi and liked
the sound he had. Not much wave to it.
Now I prefer a Chicago tuned, waved reed box. Nothing like a grindy,
honky style, set of reeds.
How about Sitek reeds, Loren? Al Piatkowski has several Sitek reed
boxes and "supposedly" my Triple Patek is Sitek Reeds. (accordion to
Al)
On the subject of air, my STar Triple (with low switch) is so loud and
tight, it lets very little air "not be used" by the reed. (Unlike the
GEM which allows more air to pass through.
John Bernhardt said the Triple had tight reeds, which utilized all the
air to sound the reed.
Loren Schaeffler
Your Star Triple could have Friedl reeds. There are a few Stars with
them. I'm not able to positively identify Sitek reeds. Only Friedl and
East German reeds. To me, all others belong in the Kummer, Sitek, and
other reed makers category. All very good. Some play easier and take
less air than others. Loren.....
sli...@spectra.net
Buffalo is a great resource for this work. My box is being "cared
for" by Mark K. until I our next trip to the Nickel City.
OK chemnitz box players, what is your favorite song to play and what
is your favorite song on box? (of course, they can be and are
different in some instances.
I won't answer until later..
Thanks to Loren for the "dating" of my Patek Triple.
mmu...@webexpert.net
yet... But I have some Many Favorites to hear... But I Cant Decide betweeen,
Concertina Cocktail, and Hop In...
Matt
Matts Polka Page
http://www.fppro.com/mmularz
In article <35f5bb7c...@supernews.spectra.net>,
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Jason O'Rourke
Will this lead to marriage, or is the whole thing platonic? ;-)
ZAZ601
Hi Don! Maryland Chemnitzer Polka Dave here. We met at the Takoma Park
festival or indoor event. Great to hear you're giving the big box another
look! Always wondered why you mentioned the armpit thing. All chemnitzers
I've see (maybe 20) have the air valve up front on the right. Hey Drop me a
line. We box guys gotta stick together! DB
ZAZ601
Well Steve, it depends. I really love Beer Barrel Polka, but I can't hack it
yet! I can get down with Chicago Land Twirl, E.I.E.I.O.Polka and Mariana ( old
Croatian blues tune). Dave Ball
sli...@spectra.net
Dave,
Chicago Land Twirl is a good one.
Boxtunes that were made for the box, in my opinion, are: Zip Zip,
Ice Cream, Concertina, Windy City, Circus, Hop In, Pickles and
Peppers, Eddie's, just to name a few.
DoN. Nichols
ZAZ601 <zaz...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Don! Maryland Chemnitzer Polka Dave here. We met at the Takoma Park
>festival or indoor event.
It was probably the FSGW Minifest, since I've never yet made it to
the Takoma Park festival.
> Great to hear you're giving the big box another
>look! Always wondered why you mentioned the armpit thing. All chemnitzers
>I've see (maybe 20) have the air valve up front on the right.
Well ... mine, an Arno Arnold, has it as I have described.
> Hey Drop me a
>line. We box guys gotta stick together! DB
I'm taking this chance to both respond directly to you, and to test
the latest fix to the gateway to the squeezebox mailing list (so it is being
posted as well.)