Info on Jurgen Suttner Concertinas?
Stewart Matthiesen
I just recently purchased a Jurgen Suttner english 48 button concertina at an auction and I was
wondering if anyone out there could give me info on it. I know Lark in the Morning sells them for
$4850 today and I paid $1050. Anyone had any problems or things I should watch out for? Just any
general info would be great. It is a 48 button treble with metal buttons and ebony ends. It was made
in 1991 and it's serial number is 23. It has 6 fold black leather bellows and is 6 sided. It has steel
reeds and a brass reed plate and is made by Jurgen Suttner in Germany. It has a nice sound and I am
happy with it so far. Thanx.
Stewart Matthiesen - ly...@olympus.net
DoN. Nichols
In article <4oe7v4$8...@olympus.net>,
Stewart Matthiesen <ly...@olympus.net> wrote:
I've re-folded the lines in your original post because they were way
too long. To get an idea how much too long, the shorter lines which are
indented are what was folded. (I'd normally mention this in private e-mail,
but I also intend to answer your post, and hope to gather more information
by keeping that public.) Mostly, you are probably being misled by your news
posting software, which is probably using proportional space fonts (which do
look nice, but which make judging the line length rather difficult.)
>I just recently purchased a Jurgen Suttner english 48 button concertina at
an auction and I was
>wondering if anyone out there could give me info on it. I know Lark in the
Morning sells them for
>$4850 today and I paid $1050. Anyone had any problems or things I should
watch out for? Just any
>general info would be great. It is a 48 button treble with metal buttons
and ebony ends. It was made
>in 1991 and it's serial number is 23. It has 6 fold black leather bellows
and is 6 sided. It has steel
Up to this point, it sounds like an English-made instrument (see my
web page for details of what should be in one of those).
>reeds and a brass reed plate
*Now* we get into the strange sounding part. Do you mean that *all*
the reeds for a given side of the instrument are mounted on a single brass
plate? This is *very* different from the English-made instruments, where
each reed is in its own dovetailed carrier. (Usually brass, but on some
instruments they are aluminum.)
I can't judge your location from your e-mail address, and am
wondering whether this is U.S. Dollars you are mentioning. The Lark in the
Morning price sounds rather steep for what I understand the construction to
be.
O.K. A vist to their web page shows exactly the price which you
quoted. I would *love* to see an instrument which is constructed using
shared reed plates, yet which sells for less than only the top end of Collin
Dipper's instruments. I hope to someday be able to study one of these
instruments, to evaluate its quality compared with the better of the
English-made instruments.
> and is made by Jurgen Suttner in Germany. It
has a nice sound and I am
>happy with it so far. Thanx.
Well -- at the price you paid, it certainly sounds like a bargin.
I'm afraid that I can't tell you any more about what to expect from it,
sicne (obviously), I've never seen one of these. Perhaps someone else on
the newsgroup/list will have experience with one of these.
Squeeze On,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Donald Nichols (DoN.)
Voice Days: (703) 704-2280 | Eves: (703) 938-4564
My Concertina web page: | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Sabine
ly...@olympus.net (Stewart Matthiesen) writes:
> I just recently purchased a Jurgen Suttner english 48 button concertina at
> an auction and I was
> wondering if anyone out there could give me info on it. I know Lark in the
best idea would be, just call the maker himself, he might be interested
where his no. 23 ended up so far as well. Juergen Suttner,
Albert-Noell-Str. 78, D-57078 Siegen Germany, phone predial Germany
-271 706939 fax 2732 27161.
David Glenn
Well I won't get into an argument about line lengths and fonts (you'd
think those 'perfect' unix systems would deal with this new fangled
word-wrapping idea), but as to the Suttner; I own a Suttner anglo (G/C
38-button, metal ends, 7 fold bellows, Jeffries copy). It is a nice box,
better action than most 100 year old used boxes, not as good as top
quality wheatstones or dippers. It is my understanding that Jurgen makes
tinas which are copies of good/great tinas of the past. He imposes very
little in the way of design changes (save for new material and
construction methods), and in general does a very nice job. I have not
seen one of his english boxes but would guess they follow the same
pattern. As to the reeds and carriers, the anglo uses steel reeds with
brass carriers (all individually packaged for your sanitation pleasure)
which are mounted into a tapered/dovetailed slot. I am sure this is the
same procedure for the english tinas, as I said, he copies designs of
existing/old tinas. Sounds like 1k was a decent price to pay, I paid close
to 2k for my anglo. Some day the gods will shine down and place me at an
auction where a musical instrument I want goes for less than an
astronomical price, someday...
Dave
----------
Don said from a high unix shaped horse ;-):
>
> I've re-folded the lines in your original post because they were way
> too long. To get an idea how much too long, the shorter lines which are
> indented are what was folded. (I'd normally mention this in private
e-mail,
> but I also intend to answer your post, and hope to gather more
information
> by keeping that public.) Mostly, you are probably being misled by your
news
> posting software, which is probably using proportional space fonts
(which do
> look nice, but which make judging the line length rather difficult.)
>
> >I just recently purchased a Jurgen Suttner english 48 button concertina
at
> an auction and I was
> >wondering if anyone out there could give me info on it. I know Lark in
the
Han Speek
In article <4ogf5t$a...@windigo.d-and-d.com>,
dnic...@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) writes:
>In article <4oe7v4$8...@olympus.net>,
>Stewart Matthiesen <ly...@olympus.net> wrote:
>
>>I just recently purchased a Jurgen Suttner english 48 button concertina at
> an auction and I was
>>wondering if anyone out there could give me info on it. I know Lark in the
> Morning sells them for
>>$4850 today and I paid $1050. Anyone had any problems or things I should
> watch out for? Just any
>>general info would be great. It is a 48 button treble with metal buttons
> and ebony ends. It was made
>>in 1991 and it's serial number is 23. It has 6 fold black leather bellows
> and is 6 sided. It has steel
>
> Up to this point, it sounds like an English-made instrument (see my
>web page for details of what should be in one of those).
>
>>reeds and a brass reed plate
>
> *Now* we get into the strange sounding part. Do you mean that *all*
>the reeds for a given side of the instrument are mounted on a single brass
>plate? This is *very* different from the English-made instruments, where
>each reed is in its own dovetailed carrier. (Usually brass, but on some
>instruments they are aluminum.)
>
> I can't judge your location from your e-mail address, and am
>wondering whether this is U.S. Dollars you are mentioning. The Lark in the
>Morning price sounds rather steep for what I understand the construction to
>be.
>
>
> Well -- at the price you paid, it certainly sounds like a bargin.
>I'm afraid that I can't tell you any more about what to expect from it,
>sicne (obviously), I've never seen one of these. Perhaps someone else on
>the newsgroup/list will have experience with one of these.
>
> DoN.
>
Hi,
Juergen Suttner has been advertizing for the last couple of months in a mag.
I subscribe to called "Irish Music", and which discusses exactly what the title
suggests. The ad had mostly anglo models listed, and only one or two English
models. Prices were given in English pounds, and if I remember correctly (will
check this evening at home) he asks about 1600 pounds for an anglo, and 1800
for the English system. Looking at these prices, Lark is grossly overpricing,
and someone's had himself a bargain.
From what I heard about Suttner's instruments, they should be similar in
construction to one made in England, so wooden reed pan with dove-tailed brass
reed frames. I'll post more details tomorrow, when I've re-read the ad.
Han.
--
H. Speek, B.Sc. E-mail: h...@ice.el.utwente.nl,
Univ. of Twente, Dept. EL, ICE group H.S...@el.utwente.nl
The Netherlands WWW: http://www.ice.el.utwente.nl/~han/
Peter Adler
On Tue, May 28, 1996 11:09:49 PM at DoN. Nichols wrote:
>>I just recently purchased a Jurgen Suttner english 48 button concertina
at
> an auction and I was
>>wondering if anyone out there could give me info on it. I know Lark in
the
> Morning sells them for
>>$4850 today and I paid $1050. Anyone had any problems or things I should
> watch out for? Just any
>>general info would be great.
>>reeds and a brass reed plate
>
> *Now* we get into the strange sounding part. Do you mean that *all*
>the reeds for a given side of the instrument are mounted on a single brass
>plate? This is *very* different from the English-made instruments, where
>each reed is in its own dovetailed carrier. (Usually brass, but on some
>instruments they are aluminum.)
> O.K. A vist to their web page shows exactly the price which you
>quoted. I would *love* to see an instrument which is constructed using
>shared reed plates, yet which sells for less than only the top end of
Collin
>Dipper's instruments. I hope to someday be able to study one of these
>instruments, to evaluate its quality compared with the better of the
>English-made instruments.
>
>> and is made by Jurgen Suttner in Germany.
It
> has a nice sound and I am
>>happy with it so far. Thanx.
>
>
> Well -- at the price you paid, it certainly sounds like a bargin.
>I'm afraid that I can't tell you any more about what to expect from it,
>sicne (obviously), I've never seen one of these.
Adrian Janoska of Classical Art Fabricators gave me Suttner's address in
Germany as a bandoneon builder, but I was a little suspicious. A lot of
people are identified as bandoneon builders, but then it doesn't pan out.
He has a web page? DoN, do you have the URL? Or is that LITM's page?
Tom Murphey
Jurgen Suttner's concertinas are among the finest made today by anyone. He is
most noted for his copies of Jeffries Anglo concertinas, which are in huge
demand these days among players of Irish dance music. His prices (F.O.B.
Germany) are quite reasonable, given the high quality of his instruments,
running around $2000 US. The other good thing about his instruments is that
having one custom made takes a wait of less than two years, as opposed to the
five or six or more for a Dipper or Wheatstone today. The prices advertised by
the "Shark in the Morning" are, as usual about TWICE the actual price from the
maker. Lark in the Morning is INFAMOUS for their exorbitant pricing and the
unusually poor quality of the (used) concertinas they stock. I have seen the
cheapest model Lachenal English trebles, with missing keys and out of tune
reeds marked at over $2000 at various music fairs here in California, and
Wheatstone Aeolas with badly damaged end pieces and badly out of tune going for
well over $4000!!! OUTRAGEOUS!
To: bb-rec-music-makers-squeezebox @ cs.cmu.edu @ Internet
cc: (bcc: Tom Murphey)
From: dnichols @ d-and-d.com ("DoN. Nichols") @ Internet
Date: 05/28/96 11:09:49 PM CDT
Subject: Re: Info on Jurgen Suttner Concertinas?
In article <4oe7v4$8...@olympus.net>,
Stewart Matthiesen <ly...@olympus.net> wrote:
I've re-folded the lines in your original post because they were way
too long. To get an idea how much too long, the shorter lines which are
indented are what was folded. (I'd normally mention this in private e-mail,
but I also intend to answer your post, and hope to gather more information
by keeping that public.) Mostly, you are probably being misled by your news
posting software, which is probably using proportional space fonts (which do
look nice, but which make judging the line length rather difficult.)
>I just recently purchased a Jurgen Suttner english 48 button concertina at
an auction and I was
>wondering if anyone out there could give me info on it. I know Lark in the
Morning sells them for
>$4850 today and I paid $1050. Anyone had any problems or things I should
watch out for? Just any
>general info would be great. It is a 48 button treble with metal buttons
and ebony ends. It was made
>in 1991 and it's serial number is 23. It has 6 fold black leather bellows
and is 6 sided. It has steel
Up to this point, it sounds like an English-made instrument (see my
web page for details of what should be in one of those).
>reeds and a brass reed plate
*Now* we get into the strange sounding part. Do you mean that *all*
the reeds for a given side of the instrument are mounted on a single brass
plate? This is *very* different from the English-made instruments, where
each reed is in its own dovetailed carrier. (Usually brass, but on some
instruments they are aluminum.)
I can't judge your location from your e-mail address, and am
wondering whether this is U.S. Dollars you are mentioning. The Lark in the
Morning price sounds rather steep for what I understand the construction to
be.
O.K. A vist to their web page shows exactly the price which you
quoted. I would *love* to see an instrument which is constructed using
shared reed plates, yet which sells for less than only the top end of Collin
Dipper's instruments. I hope to someday be able to study one of these
instruments, to evaluate its quality compared with the better of the
English-made instruments.
> and is made by Jurgen Suttner in Germany. It
has a nice sound and I am
>happy with it so far. Thanx.
Well -- at the price you paid, it certainly sounds like a bargin.
I'm afraid that I can't tell you any more about what to expect from it,
sicne (obviously), I've never seen one of these. Perhaps someone else on
the newsgroup/list will have experience with one of these.
Squeeze On,
DoN.
--
DoN. Nichols
In article <1996052914...@firefly.prairienet.org>,
David Glenn <dag...@prairienet.org> wrote:
>Well I won't get into an argument about line lengths and fonts (you'd
>think those 'perfect' unix systems would deal with this new fangled
>word-wrapping idea),
Unfortunately, the new ones do. I swore off Sun's mailtool, and
xvnews because they did just that -- word wrapping on the screen, without
bothering to do it in the text sent out, thus inconveniencing all those with
older systems, or with no GUI programs (there are still systems running with
nothing but a plain ASCII terminal as a console -- some of them very
expensive *new* servers. :-) I opted to use other tools, that folded the
text being sent out, at the cost of some inconvenience when reading other's
postings, just to maximize the number of people who could read my articles
with a minumum of hassle -- after all, the point is communication.
> but as to the Suttner; I own a Suttner anglo (G/C
>38-button, metal ends, 7 fold bellows, Jeffries copy). It is a nice box,
>better action than most 100 year old used boxes, not as good as top
>quality wheatstones or dippers. It is my understanding that Jurgen makes
>tinas which are copies of good/great tinas of the past. He imposes very
>little in the way of design changes (save for new material and
>construction methods), and in general does a very nice job. I have not
>seen one of his english boxes but would guess they follow the same
>pattern. As to the reeds and carriers, the anglo uses steel reeds with
>brass carriers (all individually packaged for your sanitation pleasure)
>which are mounted into a tapered/dovetailed slot. I am sure this is the
>same procedure for the english tinas, as I said, he copies designs of
>existing/old tinas.
This is as I hoped to hear. (But the original article implied
otherwise, which is what prompted my post.)
> Sounds like 1k was a decent price to pay, I paid close
>to 2k for my anglo. Some day the gods will shine down and place me at an
>auction where a musical instrument I want goes for less than an
>astronomical price, someday...
I agree that 1K$ was a reasonable price for the instrument. I have
had private e-mail indicating that Sutner charges about $2k for the
instrument new, which implies that LITM is making a *major* profit.
Han Speek
Hi,
To follow up on what I said yesterday about the Suttner concertinas, here's
the info (pricing and otherwise) from this advertisement in "Irish Music"
magazine:
Juergen Suttner Concertinas
(Manufacturers & Exporters),
Albert-Noell-Str. 78, D-57078 Siegen, Germany
---------------------------- PRICE LIST 1996 -----------------------------
Anglo Concertinas
A1 30-key, in C/G, 6-fold leather bellows in black,
flat mahogany ends. GBP 1200
A2 31-key, in C/G, 7-fold leather bellows in black,
German silver ends, the reed pan is made of sycamore/maple.
Jeffries type GBP 1500
A3 31-key, in C#/G# (ad. says G#/G#, but I assume that's a typo),
7-fold leather bellows in black,
German silver ends, the reed pan is made of sycamore/maple. GBP 1520
A4 31-key, in Bb/F, 7-fold leather bellows in black,
German silver ends, the reed pan is made of sycamore/maple. GBP 1540
A5 31-key, in Ab/Eb, 7-fold leather bellows in black,
German silver ends, the reed pan is made of sycamore/maple. GBP 1600
A6 31-key, in G/D, 7-fold leather bellows in black,
German silver ends, the reed pan is made of sycamore/maple. GBP 1600
A7 31-key, in C/G, 7-fold leather bellows in black,
flat ebony ends, the reed pan is made of sycamore/maple.
Wheatstone Linota type. GBP 1600
A8 38-key, in C/G, 7-fold leather bellows in black,
German silver or ebonized raised ends, the reed pan is
made of sycamore/maple. Jeffries type. GBP 1880
English Concertinas
E1 48-key, treble, 6-fold leather bellows in black,
German silver or ebonized raised ends, the reed pan is
made of sycamore/maple. New model type. GBP 2040
All Concertinas are hexagonal, and come with hand-cut ends. The buttons are
made of German Silver. All instruments have steel reeds in individual brass
frames and are tuned to A = 440Hz. With case.
A rough calculation to convert English pounds to US dollars results in an
equivalent of $3120 (ex. shipping) if you would order an English model directly
from him. Which clearly demonstrates that Lark in the Morning is justly
nicknamed "Shark" in the Morning.
Pete McClelland
In article <4ogf5t$a...@windigo.d-and-d.com>, "DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-
and-d.com> writes
(about someone who had bought a Suttner concertina at auction)
*Now* we get into the strange sounding part. Do you mean that *all*
the reeds for a given side of the instrument are mounted on a single
>brass plate? This is *very* different from the English-made
>instruments, where each reed is in its own dovetailed carrier. (Usually
>brass, but on some instruments they are aluminum.)
> Well -- at the price you paid, it certainly sounds like a bargin.
>I'm afraid that I can't tell you any more about what to expect from it,
>sicne (obviously), I've never seen one of these. Perhaps someone else on
>the newsgroup/list will have experience with one of these.
Don
Jurgen Suttner makes normal concertinas in the style of Wheatstone and
Dipper etc. Usually with metal ends, I haven't seen a wooden ended one
like this yet. Price should be about US$2500 for a 30 anglo and $3500
ish for a good English. Maybe it costs more in the US, but either way
this man got a good price.
--
Pete McClelland
DoN. Nichols
In article <kqhEHCAm...@mcmail.demon.co.uk>,
Pete McClelland <Pe...@hobgoblin.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <4ogf5t$a...@windigo.d-and-d.com>, "DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-
>and-d.com> writes
>(about someone who had bought a Suttner concertina at auction)
>*Now* we get into the strange sounding part. Do you mean that *all*
>the reeds for a given side of the instrument are mounted on a single
>>brass plate? This is *very* different from the English-made
[ ... ]
>Don
>Jurgen Suttner makes normal concertinas in the style of Wheatstone and
>Dipper etc. Usually with metal ends, I haven't seen a wooden ended one
>like this yet. Price should be about US$2500 for a 30 anglo and $3500
>ish for a good English. Maybe it costs more in the US, but either way
>this man got a good price.
I agree. Thanks for the clarification. I've also gotten other
feedback by e-mail. Now, the remaining question is -- was the person who
got this instrument mis-informed about the internal construction, or did he
simply phrase it unclearly.
I would love to look at the construction of one of these
instruments, to see what little improvements he may have made. I found
several points of construction in the Holmwood which I bought about which I
remarked "That's the way they should have *always* built them. :-) (I also
need to dig into a Dipper and one of Steve Dickenson's instruments to see
what they may be doing different (other than excellent crafstmanship, of
course.)
Again, thanks,
Rita Kepner
In article <4oocgv$c...@windigo.d-and-d.com>, dnic...@d-and-d.com says...
Actually, it was simply bad phrasing on my part. I typed out everything that was on
the card from the auction and that was what it said. I knew I should have clarified,
but
oh well. Thankyou everyone for replying, it has been very helpful in determining if I
got a good deal and such.
Stewart Matthiesen - ly...@olympus.net
P.S. I've never had any problems with my line wrap before, but i guess it must not
work with some viewers, or perhaps my viewer wordwraps articles when viewing
them so I never noticed, I'll just try to remember to hit the enter key.
Phoebe Sengers
Hello all,
Alan Polivka has sent me the latest updates to the address section of
the Accordion FAQ. They are now available for your WWWing pleasure at
the usual location,
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/phoebe/accordion/accordion-FAQ.html.
You can also get a regular text copy by email by sending the following
message to majordomo-...@cs.cmu.edu:
get squeezebox accordion-FAQ.text
- Phoebe