key noise on accordion
Accordiannna
After a long, racous night of trying to play the blues, I found that one
of my (white) keys clacks. I took off the cover above the keys, and the
leather that covers the hole (pardon my lack of techie terminology here!)
is intact, so I assume that there was a pad of some kind under the key
itself that has come loose somehow. This is also consistent with where the
clacking occurs (seems to come from under the key itself. So, I need to
replace the pad. I have many different types of leather and wool felt, so
whatever the material is, I will be able to find a suitable replacement.
If the piece is floating around in the accordion, so much the better!
It looks like there's a rod that runs through all the keys (or at least
all the white keys) and acts as the pivot point. This seems to be covered
at each end by a small metal cover.
Here's the question: When I remove this rod in order to take out the key
(which is, of course, smack-dab in the middle of the keyboard), will the
keys be under any tension from springs? Will they want to fly out into the
middle of the room? I already plan to use drafting tape (low adhesion) to
hold the irrelevant keys together, just in case, but I'd like to know what
to expect when I remove the rod.
The instrument is a La Melodiosa by Pezzolo, if that matters.
Thanks,
Lorna (please respond by posting to the newsgroup)
--
remove 'nn" from my address to send mail
Dennis Hoshield
In article <accordiannna-0...@seoul-203.ppp.hooked.net>,
accord...@aol.com says...
>
>After a long, racous night of trying to play the blues, I found that one
>of my (white) keys clacks. I took off the cover above the keys, and the
>(which is, of course, smack-dab in the middle of the keyboard), will the
>keys be under any tension from springs? Will they want to fly out into the
>middle of the room? I already plan to use drafting tape (low adhesion) to
>hold the irrelevant keys together, just in case, but I'd like to know what
>to expect when I remove the rod.
>
The key's won't fly out into the room, but they DO have springs on them that
keep the pads down on the sound board, until you press them. I usually take
the springs off the lower end before removing the rod. There is often a small
(usually aluminum) tool to accomplish this mounted under the cover you removed.
I would go as so far as to number the key arm also, as you will most likely
be removing a few of them to get to the cuplrit. Might as well clean hous
while you're in there ... but make sure there aren't any springs (or other
valuables) laying about inside.
If the 'clacking' is noticable when you release the key, then the problem is
likely a loose pad. The pad is usually beeswaxed to the end of the key arm
(although simtimes pinned or glued). This beeswax can become brittle with age
and allow the pad to bounce around.
If the clacking starts when you depress the key, you probably have something
stuck under the key, like a paper clip, coin, etc. If the keyboard has gotten
bumped hard, you may have a bent key arm, allowing the arm and/or pad to raise
too far off the sound board, and strike an adjacent arm, or some other
component. This would be noticeable in the key bing a bit higher or lower then
adjacent keys.
Good luck!
Dennis Hoshield
YOUR Accordion Services
AcrdionMan
Lorna writes:
>After a long, racous night of trying to play the blues, I found that one
>of my (white) keys clacks. I took off the cover above the keys, and the
>leather that covers the hole (pardon my lack of techie terminology here!)
>is intact, so I assume that there was a pad of some kind under the key
>itself that has come loose somehow. This is also consistent with where the
>clacking occurs (seems to come from under the key itself. So, I need to
>replace the pad. I have many different types of leather and wool felt, so
>whatever the material is, I will be able to find a suitable replacement.
>If the piece is floating around in the accordion, so much the better!
Typically felt is used. Wool felt tends to work best, but of course, is the
preferred by moths as well.
>It looks like there's a rod that runs through all the keys (or at least
>all the white keys) and acts as the pivot point. This seems to be covered
>at each end by a small metal cover.
Right. There may be a separate rod for white vs. black keys, or they may share
the same rod, depending upon the design of your accordion. After removing the
little cover, be very careful not to bend the rod while removing or
re-inserting it.
>Here's the question: When I remove this rod in order to take out the key
>(which is, of course, smack-dab in the middle of the keyboard), will the
>keys be under any tension from springs? Will they want to fly out into the
>middle of the room? I already plan to use drafting tape (low adhesion) to
>hold the irrelevant keys together, just in case, but I'd like to know what
>to expect when I remove the rod.
They will be under pressure of the key springs. Typical procedure is to remove
them one at a time by incrementally pulling out the axle rod. As you remove
them, make sure that the keys are numbered, because they must be put back in
the exact same order that they were removed (the keys are not interchangeable).
Often the keys will already be numbered on the wood area (out of normal
sight), but if not, number them as you remove them. I typically lay them out
in order on sheets of paneling that I've cut to be a little less than 2' x 3'
(these same sheets come in handy for laying out other accordion parts, such as
reeds, while doing reed overhauls).
In all likelihood, you will find the original pad laying around loose somewhere
inside the accordion and should re-use it.
Dennis H. writes:
>I usually take the springs off the lower end before removing the rod. There
is
>often a small (usually aluminum) tool to accomplish this mounted under the
cover
>you removed.
Lorna's accordion is not likely to have springs of the type Dennis refers to,
however, since there is mention of the long rod (axle) in Lorna's accordion.
Typically, accordions with the spring removal tool under the grill cover are
those that have individually removable keys and no axle running the length of
the accordion.
Alan Polivka
Accordiannna
Alan and Dennis, thank you so much for your detailed responses. I feel
much more prepared, and I really am grateful for your time.
---Lorna
Robert Berta
Lorna,
You are right in describing the problem and the fix. If the clack is in the
bottom of the key stroke it is the felt that the key stops against....but
make sure the key valve itself isn't striking something itself like the
back of a microphone on the grill or the switch assembly. Best to see this
is to remove the grill and see if the problem is indeed what you think it
is. Assuming it is (sounds like you are already way ahead on this) you next
need to remove the rod so you can remove each key. First....take every
single key and mark it's position with a piece of masking tape with the
keys numbered sequentially so you can reassemble them in order. Remove the
cover you described and pull out either one or two rods....some accordions
have one rod for white and black keys...others have one for each set. It is
a relatively simple job as each key will come off one at a time as you
gradually pull the rod out. Once you get the key channel exposed you will
easily see what felts need to be replaced (do them all though as long as
you went this far). When reassembling do it gently twisting the rod
in....don't hammer it in. By the way a great book about accordion repair
and maintenance is available from a couple of dealers for about $20 or so.
You won't be able to do everything...in fact this book will do you a BIG
service in discouraging you from tackling things beyond your ability....but
it will help you learn about basic maintenance and how an accordion works.
On the other hand...if the clacking is when you release the key and the
valve is snapping back over the plate the reeds are mounted on you may have
a more difficult repair job. Likely in this case you will need to replace
the leather pads and felt backing backing which is something you could do
but might be better done by a pro since you will also need to relevel the
keys once you are done which means bending the linkage (takes a little
experience to do it correctly and safely). All this is moot if you have a
really fine accordion...especially one with a tone chamber which makes the
whole thing much more difficult and something you should NEVER attempt.
Bottom line is....how good is your accordion, when was it last serviced and
do you like the accordion a bunch. If so you might want to take the
opportunity to have a pro do a thorough maintenance job including new
felts, check the wax holding the reeds in, retuning, etc. It will be worth
it...you will be amazed at how good your accordion can be once serviced.
Bob
Dennis Hoshield
In article <19980102150...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, acrdi...@aol.com says...
>
>
>Dennis H. writes:
>
>>I usually take the springs off the lower end before removing the rod. There
>is
>>often a small (usually aluminum) tool to accomplish this mounted under the
>cover
>>you removed.
>
>Lorna's accordion is not likely to have springs of the type Dennis refers to,
>however, since there is mention of the long rod (axle) in Lorna's accordion.
>Typically, accordions with the spring removal tool under the grill cover are
>those that have individually removable keys and no axle running the length of
>the accordion.
>
>Alan Polivka
>
Interesting ... I by no means have LOTS of experience here ....
but the 2instruments that I had that did have the little tools
did happen to have thefull lenth rods..... just one for both
the black and white keys.
My question would be .... was this a 'trademark' of a particular
parent company,that is to include such a courtesy tool in the
machine, or was this widelypractices by a number of companies?
The 2 tools I have are identical, althoughin 2 different
'labled' machines.
Dennis Hoshield
Beginner-accordion-fixer-upper
AcrdionMan
In a message dated 98-01-02 20:36:39 EST, Dennis Hoshield writes:
<< Interesting ... I by no means have LOTS of experience here ....
but the 2instruments that I had that did have the little tools
did happen to have thefull lenth rods..... just one for both
the black and white keys.
My question would be .... was this a 'trademark' of a particular
parent company,that is to include such a courtesy tool in the
machine, or was this widelypractices by a number of companies?
The 2 tools I have are identical, althoughin 2 different
'labled' machines. >>
Having the tool included with the accordion was pretty common for accordions
with individually removable keys (no axles). Frontalini did it as well as a
couple of other companies (I think Wurlitzer was one of them) that had
individually removable keys with coil springs. Then there is Hohner, who has
experimented with all different sorts of ways of building accordions through
the years.
What is less common about your accordions is that they have the full length
axles that (presumably) must be removed in order to remove the keys while also
having coil-type springs and an accompanying removal tool.
By far, the most common piano accordion keyboard has one or two axles and
V-shaped (non-coiled) key springs that generally remain attached to the keys
when removing the keys from the keyboard. The axle holds the keys in place.
With this type of keyboard, to remove a particular key, you must first remove
all the keys before it (by pulling out the axle to the extent necessary).
In contrast the second most common type of piano accordion keyboard has
individually removable keys so that you only need remove the key you wish to,
regardless of where in the keyboard it happens to be. These generally use
coil-type springs to hold the keys in place (as well as to provide the normal
restoring force). The accompanying tool allows you to unhook the coil spring,
releasing the key you wish to remove.
Your accordions sound like some sort of hybrid of the above two designs.
Please tell more about their keyboard design. It does use coil-type springs,
right? If so, I presume you must remove the spring before you can remove a
key, right? How old are these accordions? What brand are these accordions?
Alan Polivka
Accordiannna
In article <01bd17c9$1f387160$cf24...@rkb4ws01.comp.pge.com>, "Robert
Berta" <RK...@pge.com> wrote:
The problem is when I depress the key, not when I release it. I'm quite
sure it's a problem with a small pad under the key that has gone missing.
It's not a rod hitting or anything like that.
I've delved into fixing things before (on other accordions), so I'm sure
that I can deal with this. ("Don't hammer the rod back
in"....HMMPPHHH!!!) :-)
> Bottom line is....how good is your accordion,
pretty good.....
> when was it last serviced
COUGH COUGH COUGH....scuze me??? (Teacher's salary...covers rent, coffee,
and catfood right now.)
> and
> do you like the accordion a bunch. If so you might want to take the
> opportunity to have a pro do a thorough maintenance job including new
> felts, check the wax holding the reeds in, retuning, etc. It will be worth
> it...you will be amazed at how good your accordion can be once serviced.
>
Bob, I believe you're in the SF Bay Area. If and when I need a technician,
who would you suggest in this area. (Others' suggestions are also
welcome!)
---Lorna Swain
--
Who says five accordions are too many???
(remove 'nn" from my address to send mail)
Dan Plestid
Dennis Hoshield wrote:
> Interesting ... I by no means have LOTS of experience here ....
> but the 2instruments that I had that did have the little tools
> did happen to have thefull lenth rods..... just one for both
> the black and white keys.
>
> My question would be .... was this a 'trademark' of a particular
> parent company,that is to include such a courtesy tool in the
> machine, or was this widelypractices by a number of companies?
> The 2 tools I have are identical, althoughin 2 different
> 'labled' machines.
>
> Dennis Hoshield
> Beginner-accordion-fixer-upper
One of my accordions is a Corelli (I'm guessing at a 1939 model) and it
has the spring tool for use with the individually coil-springed keys (no
rod). The little Bai-Le also has coil springs but no courtesy tool and
the Hohner is a whole different set-up.
I did find another use for this conveniently sized and light-weight tool
though, when I decided to start playing again after a 30+ years hiatus.
The Hohner was bought new in the 60s, my wife played it for 5 years and
then it was stored (in it's case) under the stairs on the main floor of
her parents house. While that appeared to be a dry enough location, I
had to clean a considerable amount of green from the metal bellows
corners, etc. Some of the reeds were also sticking and because I hadn't
yet proven to myself my commitment to playing, I didn't want to spend
any money on it. It was pretty airtight and I didn't want to pull the
pins. Instead I used the tool from the Corelli to go into the holes of
totally seized reeds and 'very' gently tap them back into service. The
rest of those that were a little raspy freed up over time with playing
them. That little tool (and a lot of luck) saved me the cost of an
overhaul - money I would rather put toward a newer and better box.
My father had bought the Corelli for me when it was over 20 years old
and well played. The air release button rod was broken and I got into
the habit of pressing the chords to close it. I had long forgotten this
but when I hauled it out and tried to play it I found it drawing a lot
of air. The chord return springs are so weak that they won't close the
valves tight -lay the accordion flat and gently brush the 120: the bass
rows stay up and every chord button goes down and stays down until you
shake the beast vertically. The Corelli was mostly stored in cold, damp
basements over the years (no respect) and the case was water-stained
from a near miss with a flood. Interestingly, there isn't an ounce of
corrosion on it and I finally pulled the pins for a look inside. The
reeds and valves are perfectly clean as well, (although there are four
treble valve flaps missing that are not floating around inside). This
box may yet be squeezed again.
While it may be awhile until my new(er) accordion comes along, we did
give our son a Schylling for Christmas. At three-and-a-half his main
lesson is to learn how to care for this "real" instrument.
Dan Plestid