Accordion Comeback=Myth
Jonas
professional musician, I am often busy and cannot take work that would be
more suitable for a student-level player.
The problem is that there are no students who can even read a simple polka!
I've tried calling several studios and teachers in this area, offering
simple jobs (playing for ethnic folk dance groups for example). Their
response is that they currently do not have any students that could play the
material. One teacher told me that they no longer even teach accordion and
have switched to teaching piano!
Where is "the comeback of the accordion" that is touted by the accordion
establishment (names left out to protect the guilty)?
A large portion of the blame rests with accordion teachers.
I recently accepted an adult student who was about to sell her instrument
back to a music store because of her frustration with several accordion
teachers. In short, they were unable or unwilling to teach an adult (I
guess they prefer to teach kids baby music because they can't play anything
beyond that themselves) and were very unprofessional in their demeanor
(asking for payment for a month of lessons in advance, and then the teacher
didn't show up for the lessons!). The woman told me that I was the only
teacher who was interested in teaching adults. The accepted method books
(PH, Sedlon) are pretty awful, especially for adults, so I have taken to
adapting piano method books and pieces.
Is there anybody out there who can offer a real glimmer of hope for this
dismal situation?
Kimric Smythe
>
> I live in the So. California area (the music capital of the world!?!). As a
> professional musician, I am often busy and cannot take work that would be
> more suitable for a student-level player.
>
The accepted method books
> (PH, Sedlon) are pretty awful, especially for adults, so I have taken to
> adapting piano method books and pieces.
>
> Is there anybody out there who can offer a real glimmer of hope for this
> dismal situation?
Mel bay has a book called "teach yourself accordion" that is less insipid
than the children's stuff. I have found that some of the old classics like
Divorsiak's "Going Home" make a pleasant lesson study.
Kimric Smythe
Smythe's Accordion Center
Oakland CA
P.S. I am sure I mangled the composers name.
Helen P.
numerous opportunities to play in big open bands or, better yet, to take
music workshops. The repertoire is usually American "contra" dance music
that is often fast, but technically not too hard. It includes Old-Time
music, and waltzes as well. The 32-bar tunes are usually played about six
times through (plus internal ABAB or AABB repeats), so there's a long time
to work on a particular tune.
A fairly raw beginner can attend either open bands or workshops, and slowly
acquire confidence and skill. It's a rather "safe" playing environment,
because other players carry the tune along, and mistakes tend to be swamped
out by the others who play correctly. Even if one stops playing, the music
carries on, and the player can just start again when ready. These groups
often have one or more concertinas or accordions in them, so the beginner
can ask a few questions, listen, and learn a bit each time.
It does require a bit of strong nerve to do the open bands, which can be a
bit overwhelming at first. Plan to play a while, then go dance a little to
relax. Workshops tend to cater to the skill level of the player somewhat
more, while still being rather safe.
If the player can summon the courage to attend often, it will help build
more confidence in their abilities.
If you don't have either open bands or group music workshops in your area,
well, why not start some? They can be quite enjoyable for everyone.
A mixed instrument workshop for few hours during the day on Saturday once a
month is easy to fit into a professional schedule, held at your home and
charging maybe $15-20 a head. Hire someone else to teach it sometimes if
you like.
Good luck!
-- Helen
Jonas wrote in message <3a02...@news2.starnetinc.com>...
Saramac
> establishment (names left out to protect the guilty)?
> A large portion of the blame rests with accordion teachers.
>
The accordion is definitely coming back--for those who already know how to play.
For newbies, it's a rough ride. I can count the number of accordion teachers in
my town on one hand! It's not hopeless though.
> In short, they were unable or unwilling to teach an adult (I
> guess they prefer to teach kids baby music because they can't play anything
> beyond that themselves) and were very unprofessional in their demeanor
> (asking for payment for a month of lessons in advance, and then the teacher
> didn't show up for the lessons!).
Well, that's just wrong! That's nothing to do with accordions though, I had a
Tae Kwon Do teacher who frequently skipped classes. The lousy teachers are
getting away with this behavior because they have no competition from good
teachers.
> Is there anybody out there who can offer a real glimmer of hope for this
> dismal situation?
It's obvious that there is a shortage of teachers. Good teachers, bad
teachers--just teachers in general! We can't be choosy when we have so little.
Palmer-Hughes books and the like may be 'insipid' but they're all some people
have got...
Sister eX
A l e x M a r i n o
First time on this newsgroup.
Ok, so I started playing the piano accordion when I was 10 years old. Took
classes for four years and played occasionally throught the years after
that. At the time I learned a lot of Italian and French songs sprinkled with
some Tangos. Eventually abandoned it and studied the Classical Guitar for
five years until I developed some problems with my left hand that forced me
to quit. This was about 5 years ago.
Know I want to pick up the Accordion again but find that purchasing a
halfway descent one costs in the neighborhood of 2 to 3 thousand bucks. For
a refurbished model at that.
So I bought a couple of Crucianelli clunkers on Ebay just to get started
again and hope to save enough money to purchase one that I can be proud of.
But, damn, these things are expensive!
My next barrier is that there are NO instructors in the town I live in so I
am stuck with getting some instruction books and taking it from there. And
forget finding anyone else around that I can exchange notes with (no pun
intended).
It is reasuring to find a newsgroup on the net that I can learn from and
hopefully contribute as well.
--
a l e x
"Jonas" <sara...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a02...@news2.starnetinc.com...
Toby Hanson
<john...@home.com> wrote:
> Good post Jonas.
>
> Here in CT, USA, & widespread, the biggest problem with getting youth to
> study the Accordion
> is lack of acceptance in school band/music programs. It'a very old problem.
>
> The late Julio Giulietti worked on solutions for many years, always failing
> with ouir so-called
> "gimmick" instrument.
>
> So the kids grab a trumpet, clarinet, etc., instead, to be in the school
> band/music program.
> Can't blame them, I guess. Even my own kid is playing trumpet, to be
> involved in school.
> (Of course, she also does some Accordion practice <g>, but it does take away
> motivation.)
In high school I played sax and clarinet to be a part of the band. In
fact, my high school band teacher was openly hostile toward my accordion
playing. He told me one time that I should concentrate on the saxophone
because I'd never make anything of myself on accordion.
> In CT, we also find the "baby boomers", with our potential youth students,
> are the parents who were burned by some of the old "sell-'em-an-Accordion"
> teachers/studios/stores. I witnessed Accordion sales with as
> much as 700% mark-up. This usually went along with staunch "old school"
> teaching methods
> or worse yet, the "play a song a week" teachers, pushing sheet music sales.
This is a huge problem! There was a time when the accordion was so
popular that anyone with an instrument could open a teaching studio. This
begat a slew of mediocre-at-best accordion teachers who are now trying to
teach the next generation of students. I was very lucky to have found a
competent, qualified accordion teacher (none other than our own Gary Dahl)
who was able to teach me not just accordion music but music in general.
Until we get a large pool of teachers who have musical horizons higher
than "Sharpshooter's March" we'll always face a shortage of qualified
players.
> The Accordion has definitely made a "comeback", but to make it complete, we
> need youth
> interest. Exposure is helping, but not enough.
Exposure is key; it helps fuel demand. The trick now is to make sure that
there are teachers to step in and teach as the demand rises.
--
Intermountain Tire-
For all your traction needs see the fine folks at
Intermountain Tire today!
"Get out of my office you lousy talking mime!"
fred veenschoten
made up. are these popular tune sets? i downloaded them all and am learning
them.
Fred
Helen P. wrote in message <8ttoem$fe4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>...
gary.blair
> Good post Jonas.
>
> Here in CT, USA, & widespread, the biggest problem with getting youth to
> study the Accordion
> is lack of acceptance in school band/music programs. It'a very old
problem.
>
At this moment in time, there are many,, many schools in my area
who have accepted the Accordion. The reason being that one enterprising
individual purchased 100 48 Bass models at a very low price ( approx £100)
They managed to get a grant from various organisations and offered these
accordions to local schools with the promise that they would buy them back
at the same price.Every 2nd person I meet now knows a kid who is learning
the Accordion.
Regards
GAry Blair (Scotland)
To Post a message, send it to: squee...@eGroups.com
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Dan Lavry
> Where is "the comeback of the accordion" that is touted by the accordion
> establishment (names left out to protect the guilty)?
> A large portion of the blame rests with accordion teachers.
>
> Is there anybody out there who can offer a real glimmer of hope for this
> dismal situation?
I would not put it all on the teachers. A lot of us in the NG are relatively
old. Some real good players, designers, repair and tuning folks, are not so
young any more. I do not see too many young folks taking up the accordion. A bit
more then it was a few years ago, but less then I would like to see. Certainly,
no comparison to the huge number of guitar players, keyboard players and so on.
Clearly, some of the attraction (or lack of) has much to do with the type of
music that is being performed, hyped and so on... But there are other very
important factors as well. One such factor is the relative difficulty of
learning an instrument to a given level of proficiency. I see a ton of really
bad singers strumming their 3 chords on a guitar, and this is often considered
music... Learn the guitar in a week, or the keyboard in 24 hours is offered
regularly....
Another major variable, is the cost of the instrument. Folks that can not effort
a piano (or do not want to spend thousands at the early stage of learning), can
at least start playing on very inexpensive keyboards. Many guitars are cheap. Of
course, the quality is not very high, but low cost instruments are very inviting
at the early stages of learning. Unfortunately, an all electronic accordion such
as the reedless instruments are very costly ($5000-6000 I believe). I am
surprised that the instruments are not under $1000 by now. I guess the
manufacturers keep the prices high in order to recoup the cost of development,
but the first one to go for the low cost volume manufacturing may win big... and
it may happen in China, where the demand is huge, and cost have to be kept low.
A reedless made out of some plastic molding and other inexpensive materials with
a single printed circuit board, and even some external midi capabilities, bellow
pressure sensor and wireless midi, can all be done cheaply at volume
manufacturing. If no one else will buy it, I will and probably a few millions
folks in china and maybe hundred thousands in Europe, and maybe a lot of
youngsters that otherwise can not effort to learn accordions... and some older
folks that would like to have a lot of capability at lower weight.... Is anyone
listening on the manufacturer side?
Of course, I may be all wrong... but I may be right....
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
Jonas
"Dan Lavry" <danl...@halcyon.com> wrote in message
news:3A03222A...@halcyon.com...
> Another major variable, is the cost of the instrument. Folks that can not
> a piano (or do not want to spend thousands at the early stage of
learning), can
> at least start playing on very inexpensive keyboards. Many guitars are
cheap. Of
> course, the quality is not very high, but low cost instruments are very
inviting
> at the early stages of learning. Unfortunately, an all electronic
accordion such
> as the reedless instruments are very costly ($5000-6000 I believe)>
The $6000 MIDI accordions that I've seen sound worse than the $200 Casio
keyboard that I can buy at Costco or Fry's! But you make an excellent
positive suggestion. Why not take the electronics from a Casio and put it
into an accordion chassis? Actually, that's what those MIDI accordions are,
with a 10,000% markup.
On the acoustic side of things, there are plenty of good quality used
instruments available in the PennySaver, Recycler.com, or Ebay for under
$1000. If you're lucky enough to find an Excelsior, Sonola, Scandalli, Bell
with handmade reeds, the quality far surpasses any new accordion that you
could buy.
The above paragraph is infuriating to most accordion salesmen/studio owners,
but is true!
Think different
Jonas
Saramac
> context...that isn't a comic joke) to inspire the younger generation.
I don't think that being a 'comic joke' detracts in any way from one's
musicianship. I'm not embarrassed to say that listening to 'jokers' such as
'Weird Al' Yankovic and Those Darn Accordions are what inspired me to give it a
go. BTW TDA's frontman, Paul Rogers, is an excellent player. I offer the album
'Clownhead' as proof. :)
> At
> least Dick Contino has tried to update his music with a new-age album. I
> wish that more old-f--ts would get off their fatty posteriors and would at
> least TRY to dosomething different. Insanity is defined as continuing to do
> the same thing and expecting different results.
Oooh, good one.
>
Sister eX
Dan Lavry
> The $6000 MIDI accordions that I've seen sound worse than the $200 Casio
> keyboard that I can buy at Costco or Fry's! But you make an excellent
> positive suggestion....
I am certainly with you - a good acoustic instrument is way better then anything
else. I am glad to have your agreement and understanding regarding the cost vs.
quality compromise, thus the desirability of low cost electronics instruments.
Obviously, those that take music seriously would eventually go for as good an
instrument as they can..... I would not go as far as you, saying that the $6000
midi accordions sound worse then the $200 Casio. I can not stand the later, and
some of the MIDI's can be fun, but I agree in principle... I play acoustic.
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
Bruce Henderson
switching tunes ABSOLUTELY EFFORTLY is a *must*) but generally, contra
musicians pick tunes that go together to help emphasize the dance. For
instance, if the dance has a "four in line promenade" down the hall and then
back up, you might want a tune with a steady, "marchy" phrase at that time in
the music. For "four people hands in a little* circle and circle left and
right", you can give them the peppy, notey phrases -- etc. the possibilities
are endless, which is one of the things that makes is fun!
(*dunno why they're always "little circles of four" -- but my theory is that
there are too many primary school teachers who are dance callers.)
So, learn your medleys but think about the structure of your tunes and be ready
to be flexible on the fly.
Bruce Henderson, Alexandria VA and Solihull, W Mids
In article <8tv440$b8o$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "fred veenschoten"
w...@snip.net
3a03...@news2.starnetinc.com>,
"Jonas" <sara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The $6000 MIDI accordions that I've seen sound worse than the $200 Casio
> keyboard that I can buy at Costco or Fry's! But you make an excellent
> positive suggestion. Why not take the electronics from a Casio and put it
> into an accordion chassis? Actually, that's what those MIDI accordions are,
> with a 10,000% markup.
>
> Think different
> Jonas
>
The sound of MIDI depends on generator you
choose to use. I hope that desperate folks in
this group who dream about MIDIs do not
start taking Casios apart and begin making
own MIDIs. They will get even more upset
with accordion MIDI prices.
Accordion MIDI is not MIDI keyboard and
works much differently. You deal with left
and right side, bellows, at least four octaves
on treble side and many buttons or left.
The 95% of work on any accordion has to be
done by human hands and in China too all
people will demand higher wages very soon.
The world is very progressive nowdays.
If you get used MIDI for $1800- $2000
just grab it with no questions attached.
There will be no better prices in the future.
W.D.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dan Lavry
> The sound of MIDI depends on generator you
> choose to use.
That is correct.
> Accordion MIDI is not MIDI keyboard and
> works much differently. You deal with left
> and right side, bellows, at least four octaves
> on treble side and many buttons or left.
> The 95% of work on any accordion has to be
> done by human hands.....
It can be designed to be nearly as simple as the keyboard. Retrofiting an existing
instrument for midi is a very time consuming job. Designing it to be assambled
easly and cheaply is very possible, and without reeds, the materials can be cheap.
> The world is very progressive nowdays.
> If you get used MIDI for $1800- $2000
> just grab it with no questions attached.
> There will be no better prices in the future.
I am betting that we will have brand new reedless for less then that very soon. I
may be wrong, and time will tell....
Lets revisit the question in 2 years....
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
Karen Lee
well as hobbyist accordionists who could and would be willing to play
occasionally. You might want to contact the Accordionaires - a social group
of accordion players and fans - based in the North Hollywood area (you can
reach them through ABC Music or email me privately for telephone numbers).
As a former high school teacher and semi-professional keyboard player, I
might even be willing to do a stint or two now that I am semi-retiring from
my day job of trial lawyer! Second, I know of at least three excellent
teachers who teach adults. Again, if you email me privately, I will provide
names and numbers. Third, accordion music is heard more and more frequently
at least in the Long Beach/Los Angeles area where I'm from -- and I have had
several of the people who work with me ask where they or their teenaged kids
can buy and learn the instrument. Actually, the demand must be there if you
have more gigs than you can handle! :) Keep squeezing!
Bill Keaveney
The factors you mentioned: difficulty of learning, cost of the
instrument - these equally apply to the Concertina - yet interest is
steadily growing in this instrument! There has to be something else amiss.
Personally, I haven't a clue as to what it is, but there must be another
reason why the accordion is not catching on again??
Bill Keaveney
Ukiah CA
Concertina NUT
"Dan Lavry" <danl...@halcyon.com> wrote in message
news:3A03222A...@halcyon.com...
> Jonas wrote:
>
> > Where is "the comeback of the accordion" that is touted by the accordion
> > establishment (names left out to protect the guilty)?
> > A large portion of the blame rests with accordion teachers.
> >
> > Is there anybody out there who can offer a real glimmer of hope for this
> > dismal situation?
>
> I would not put it all on the teachers. A lot of us in the NG are
relatively
> old. Some real good players, designers, repair and tuning folks, are not
so
> young any more. I do not see too many young folks taking up the accordion.
A bit
> more then it was a few years ago, but less then I would like to see.
Certainly,
> no comparison to the huge number of guitar players, keyboard players and
so on.
> Clearly, some of the attraction (or lack of) has much to do with the type
of
> music that is being performed, hyped and so on... But there are other very
> important factors as well. One such factor is the relative difficulty of
> learning an instrument to a given level of proficiency. I see a ton of
really
> bad singers strumming their 3 chords on a guitar, and this is often
considered
> music... Learn the guitar in a week, or the keyboard in 24 hours is
offered
> regularly....
> Another major variable, is the cost of the instrument. Folks that can not
effort
> a piano (or do not want to spend thousands at the early stage of
learning), can
> at least start playing on very inexpensive keyboards. Many guitars are
cheap. Of
> course, the quality is not very high, but low cost instruments are very
inviting
> at the early stages of learning. Unfortunately, an all electronic
accordion such
Dan Lavry
> Dan,
>
> The factors you mentioned: difficulty of learning, cost of the
> instrument - these equally apply to the Concertina - yet interest is
> steadily growing in this instrument! There has to be something else amiss.
> Personally, I haven't a clue as to what it is, but there must be another
> reason why the accordion is not catching on again??
>
> Bill Keaveney
> Ukiah CA
> Concertina NUT
>
Sorry that I did not make it clearer. My comments in general were aimed at the
larger family of instruments (PA BB concertinas and so on). You may be correct
to draw a line here. I am not sure about it all, but there is some growing
interest in world music that may be helping some of those instruments. I see
some growing interest in Klaizmer, and that is helping the PA and perhaps the
BB. Certainly recent interest in Irish, Cajun, tango and ball room and so on has
helped some.
My comments are "relative" to what I would like to see, so slow progress is not
enough for me, measured against my desires. I would like to see a strong wave of
interest and that has not taken place. The glass is half full for one and half
empty for the other...
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
Michael Berenstein
>
>
> This idea of accordion boosterism - that the instrument must be hailed to the
> skies and promoted in all walks of life - begins to remind me of a commercial
> organization we have here in the US called the Milk Advisory Board - whose ads
> are intended to increase milk consumption so the dairy industry can make more
> money - and whose ad slogan is Everybody Needs Milk. (Other than the fact that
> adults DON'T need milk, from a health standpoint). Why is it so important to
> increase accordion consumption? (God forbid the banjo newsgroup is plotting
> their own "comeback" as we speak!!)
>
> I guess the closest I can come to relating where the folks with 50's jazz
> accordion nostalgia bug are at is by thinking of my own musical love - Irish
> traditional music.
I totally agree with Mitch on this issue. Can't be said any better. (OK, it can,
but I like the way it was layed out by Mitch)
For me, I don't like irish music all that particularly. To me it sounds a lot like
repeating the same tune over with miniscule variations, save some rare examples,
but this is true for every other aspect of life, including Amin russian tunes.
Having learned one, you've learned a whole lot of them. And I care little about
big band style and am scared of the idea of it's return.
Musicianship is another issue and I would attribute loss of it to sound equipment.
I wouldn't imagine a family without a boombox, TV and video, and some have very
expencive sound speakers etc. Why not instrument? Empty question.
Rkowal...@cs.com
I take lessons from a gentlman who loves my enthusiasm and often gives me an
hour for half hour pricesimply because of my enthusiasm.
Ron
Lee Thompson-Herbert
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" <l...@gw.retro.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.squeezebox
>Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 1:02 AM
>Subject: Re: Accordion Comeback=Myth
>
>> First bad assumption: that someone who learned jazz or classical style
>> is an appropriate player for an ethnic dance troupe.>
>
>My post had nothing to do with jazz or classical playing. I'm just trying
>to find a player (student) who can sight read on a basic level to play for
>high school musicals (Fiddler on the Roof, Cabaret, etc.) and other "easy"
>gigs that I cannot take because I'm busy playing better and or more
>difficult gigs, or ones that pay better. It's called musicianship folks! I
>could wander into any church in America and find a seasoned-citizen who can
>sight read hymns on the piano or organ. This basic level of musicianship
>amongst accordionsts is increasingly rare.
You're the one who mentioned ethnic dance groups in your first post. You
did _not_ mention this stuff. I would guess that if you didn't learn out
of method books, you _wouldn't_ play this type of stuff. In fact the pieces
you mentioned definitely would fall under the "uncool" category with most
younger players. Most people don't play pieces that they dislike.
And I will reiterate the idea that written music and sightreading are not
the be-all and end-all of musicianship. There are plenty of excellent players
out there that don't give a damn about scores. When they use written music,
it's as a memory aid. They've already learned the tunes. These players
are not lesser musicians because they don't sight read. Try and sit in with
'em a couple times and you may very well say the same.
>If there are no players coming up who can function in these simple
>semi-professional situations, the instrument will go even further into
>oblivion and will continue to be the subject of ridicule amongst other
>instrumentalists.
_which_ other instrumentalists? That was my point before. Most budding
guitarists wouldn't take the type of gigs you're talking about either.
And most traditional musicians would wonder why you're even asking them.
>players, and produce a series of good quality instructional videos. The
>instrument needs an "Eddie Van Halen" (a popular player in a contemporary
>context...that isn't a comic joke) to inspire the younger generation. At
>least Dick Contino has tried to update his music with a new-age album. I
>wish that more old-f--ts would get off their fatty posteriors and would at
>least TRY to dosomething different. Insanity is defined as continuing to do
>the same thing and expecting different results.
Those do exist. But the ones I know of are mostly button box players,
because I don't play piano accordion. But among the melodeon players,
I can think of John Kirkpatrick, and among the irish players John Wheelan.
Wheelan, last time I saw him, had a whole blues boy routine going, with
his silver earring and leather pants. And he got something that I've never
before seen in my life: a whole crowd of underage girls chasing an accordion
player down the auditorium aisles.
If you want somebody "cool" who plays piano accordion, look at the zydeco
players. Boozoo Chavez certainly had women throwing their underwear up
on stage for him. But the type of playing *you're* looking for is almost
inherently incompatible with that image of coolness. I think that's the
real problem, not that the instrument itself is unpopular.
--
Lee M.Thompson-Herbert KD6WUR l...@retro.com
Head Muso, White Rats Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
Lee Thompson-Herbert
>The problem is that there are no students who can even read a simple polka!
>I've tried calling several studios and teachers in this area, offering
>simple jobs (playing for ethnic folk dance groups for example). Their
>response is that they currently do not have any students that could play the
>material. One teacher told me that they no longer even teach accordion and
>have switched to teaching piano!
First bad assumption: that someone who learned jazz or classical style
is an appropriate player for an ethnic dance troupe. Many of the ethnic
groups that use accordion grow their own players, often people who've
grown up around the music and the dancing. I have now had several experiences
with players who are technically very proficient but they can't play the
type of dance music we want worth a damn.
[oh man, this is gonna be seen as flame bait]
>Where is "the comeback of the accordion" that is touted by the accordion
>establishment (names left out to protect the guilty)?
>A large portion of the blame rests with accordion teachers.
Depends on what type of music you're looking for. Not all types of music
florish in southern california. And many of the types that do, don't have
any association with studios or schools. There are a lot of people buying
accordions and playing them. They're just not playing 1950s style accordion
music. And a lot of people are playing button accordion now, because if
you're going to play "folk" music anyway, there isn't the same snottiness
about playing a "limited" instrument. It's also cheaper to get into at the
ground level, and at least for some people, much easier to learn to play
with any proficiency.
Let me put it this way: there are zillions of guitar players out there.
Very few of them are trained for studio work. If you were only looking for
session players, or teachers who taught a particular style, you might be
deceived into thinking that guitar wasn't a very popular instrument. You'd
be wrong. Accordion is unlikely to take the place of the guitar as the
generic instrument anyone can play, but it's a lot more common than you seem
to think. The players are just more likely to be playing for fun than as
a career. As a hobby, that's the word I'm looking for.
Looking for players? For button box, look for tejano, cajun, irish,
english, and french players (all those use different tunings, though). For
piano, look for irish, scottish, klezmer, turkish, zydeco, and balkan players.
And those are the folk communities that I can think of off the top of my
head. There are more out there.
NEB
> First bad assumption: that someone who learned jazz or classical style
> is an appropriate player for an ethnic dance troupe. Many of the ethnic
> groups that use accordion grow their own players, often people who've
> grown up around the music and the dancing. I have now had several
experiences
> with players who are technically very proficient but they can't play the
> type of dance music we want worth a damn.
This is absolutely right, certainly as far as Morris goes. You really do
need to know how it feels to dance the Cotswold stuff to be able to play
well for it. There is a lot of rubato in there that is part of the whole
thing. (I don't just mean 'slows', either. We're talking subtle rubato)
It's also true with ceilidh dance music. You only know the right speed and
feel to give a particular dance if you have experience of playing ceilidhs
a fair bit. It applies especially to *beginner* ceilidh dancers.
Neil Browning
John Jeski
Here in CT, USA, & widespread, the biggest problem with getting youth to
study the Accordion
is lack of acceptance in school band/music programs. It'a very old problem.
The late Julio Giulietti worked on solutions for many years, always failing
with ouir so-called
"gimmick" instrument.
So the kids grab a trumpet, clarinet, etc., instead, to be in the school
band/music program.
Can't blame them, I guess. Even my own kid is playing trumpet, to be
involved in school.
(Of course, she also does some Accordion practice <g>, but it does take away
motivation.)
In CT, we also find the "baby boomers", with our potential youth students,
are the parents who were burned by some of the old "sell-'em-an-Accordion"
teachers/studios/stores. I witnessed Accordion sales with as
much as 700% mark-up. This usually went along with staunch "old school"
teaching methods
or worse yet, the "play a song a week" teachers, pushing sheet music sales.
The Accordion has definitely made a "comeback", but to make it complete, we
need youth
interest. Exposure is helping, but not enough.
Keep pushing Accordion.
John Jeski
http://members.home.net/johnjeski
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"Jonas" <sara...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a02...@news2.starnetinc.com...
wado...@troycable.net
Concerning the accordion "comeback", I just returned from playing
accordion on WTBF here in town (our local RM station). I was pluggin
our Senior Complex accordion class, which now has three senior
citizens. I charge nothing for the class lessons and also offer private
instruction (one-on-one) also free of charge. I DO use the PH books and
think Sedlon is an excellent method (used it in Cleveland for years back
in the 50's and 60's). I also arrange tunes for students at their
level, so we have no restrictions on the typeR people interested in
playing it.
Jim Wadowick
wrote in message news:<3A026447...@teleport.com>... >
Really-Reply-To: sar...@teleport.com > sar...@teleport.com >
Really-From: Saramac > > > Where is "the comeback of the accordion" that
is touted by the accordion > > establishment (names left out to protect
the guilty)? > > A large portion of the blame rests with accordion
teachers. > > > > The accordion is definitely coming back--for those who
already know how to play. > For newbies, it's a rough ride. I can count
the number of accordion teachers in > my town on one hand! It's not
hopeless though. > > > In short, they were unable or unwilling to teach
an adult (I > > guess they prefer to teach kids baby music because they
can't play anything > > beyond that themselves) and were very
unprofessional in their demeanor > > (asking for payment for a month of
lessons in advance, and then the teacher > > didn't show up for the
lessons!). > > Well, that's just wrong! That's nothing to do with
accordions though, I had a > Tae Kwon Do teacher who frequently skipped
classes. The lousy teachers are > getting away with this behavior
because they have no competition from good > teachers. > > > Is there
anybody out there who can offer a real glimmer of hope for this > >
dismal situation? > > It's obvious that there is a shortage of teachers.
Good teachers, bad > teachers--just teachers in general! We can't be
choosy when we have so little. > Palmer-Hughes books and the like may be
'insipid' but they're all some people > have got... > > Sister eX > > >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jonas
From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" <l...@gw.retro.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.squeezebox
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: Accordion Comeback=Myth
> First bad assumption: that someone who learned jazz or classical style
> is an appropriate player for an ethnic dance troupe.>
My post had nothing to do with jazz or classical playing. I'm just trying
to find a player (student) who can sight read on a basic level to play for
high school musicals (Fiddler on the Roof, Cabaret, etc.) and other "easy"
gigs that I cannot take because I'm busy playing better and or more
difficult gigs, or ones that pay better. It's called musicianship folks! I
could wander into any church in America and find a seasoned-citizen who can
sight read hymns on the piano or organ. This basic level of musicianship
amongst accordionsts is increasingly rare.
If there are no players coming up who can function in these simple
semi-professional situations, the instrument will go even further into
oblivion and will continue to be the subject of ridicule amongst other
instrumentalists.
A new approach is needed. Maybe vouchers for accordionists to study with a
good piano teacher? All I know is that the accordion studio/festival system
is dead and has not done anything for the instrument. If this approach
works, why aren't there "saxophone studios" with salesmen knocking
door-to-door? The available repetoire must be updated and expanded. If
someone wants to learn to play the guitar, there are countless instructional
books and videos that are commercially available. Somebody should get
people like Nick Ariondo, Art Van Damme, Frank Marocco, and other successful
players, and produce a series of good quality instructional videos. The
instrument needs an "Eddie Van Halen" (a popular player in a contemporary
context...that isn't a comic joke) to inspire the younger generation. At
least Dick Contino has tried to update his music with a new-age album. I
wish that more old-f--ts would get off their fatty posteriors and would at
least TRY to dosomething different. Insanity is defined as continuing to do
the same thing and expecting different results.
Think about it!
Mitch Gordon
good old days? I guess I must have pretty much missed the time when the
door-to-door accordion salesperson palmed off accordions on every family, and
big bands on television like Lawrence Welk featured an accordionist. I realize
that this issue is dear to the hearts of a certain generation of players. But
speaking for myself, I find it hard to care much, and I doubt that I'm alone
among current players who do not play the big band style, do not see that
period as a rennaisance and do not long for its return.
I certainly have a hard time seeing the need for an accordion in every parlor,
accordion instruction featured in the schools, and so on. Sure, in a country
like Scotland or France or Italy or Germany where the instrument is a part of
the national folk music, it makes sense for the accordion to be taught in the
schools (as Gary describes). In the US, it just sounds silly to me. Music
instruction in American schools is based on teaching band music - for marching
or concert band - and classical orchestral music. Of course a kid will take up
the trumpet or flute for school in that situation.
This idea of accordion boosterism - that the instrument must be hailed to the
skies and promoted in all walks of life - begins to remind me of a commercial
organization we have here in the US called the Milk Advisory Board - whose ads
are intended to increase milk consumption so the dairy industry can make more
money - and whose ad slogan is Everybody Needs Milk. (Other than the fact that
adults DON'T need milk, from a health standpoint). Why is it so important to
increase accordion consumption? (God forbid the banjo newsgroup is plotting
their own "comeback" as we speak!!)
I guess the closest I can come to relating where the folks with 50's jazz
accordion nostalgia bug are at is by thinking of my own musical love - Irish
traditional music. Irish music is incredibly wonderful to me, and I can't
imagine why everybody doesn't love it and delve into all of its intricate
details. But I stop short of proposing mandatory celidh dancing classes in
secondary school physical education, and Uillean pipes in the woodwind section
of the school band.
C'mon now. Have a good time playing what you do, and if somebody catches the
bug from your enthusiasm, fine. Let's not try and reinvent the world, tho.
Mitch Gordon
Guerneville, CA
w...@snip.net
3A034C96...@halcyon.com>,
Dan Lavry <danl...@halcyon.com> wrote:
> It can be designed to be nearly as simple as the keyboard. Retrofiting an existing
> instrument for midi is a very time consuming job. Designing it to be assambled
> easly and cheaply is very possible, and without reeds, the materials can be cheap.
> I am betting that we will have brand new reedless for less then that very soon. I
> may be wrong, and time will tell....
> Lets revisit the question in 2 years....
>
> Best Regards
>
> Dan Lavry
>
Dan, I agree on the above with you,
however, looking from economic point of
view whoever designs and decides to mass
produce it very cheaply must have some
better return on the whole product, so there
might be integrated components which after
they burn out will cost as much as new
accordions.
Playing songs on my MIDI accordion today, I
just thought that I get response from you on
that topic. Indeed, it woud be very nice to get
reedless accordion for $800 without doing
any work and also paying seperately for the
controller from $250-$900.
So today if you can do work yourself you get
MIDI accordion for under $400 but if you
make $25 an hour on your job it would be
very unwise to do all that work at your spare
time. So either way people must pay for it.
Some people who wrote to me before told me
that the lowest prices for installations of
retrofits for treble and bass side are around
$900. One side or treble only would cost
$600. Add to that cost of the unit and you
have it for $1800. Indeed even retrofits
are very expensive proposition for too many
because high cost of labor. No wonder many
of us wait for better prices hoping for
improvements in that technology.
Good Luck. I have mine and enjoy it but I like
also acoustic sound. It is nothing wrong to
play acoustic accordion only but I love
joined acoustic sound and the sounds from the
MIDI. It keeps me loving accordion even
more than before I had my MIDI retrofit
accordion.
Macromed5
> It is reasuring to find a newsgroup on the net that I can learn from
> and hopefully contribute as well.
Cool, welcome, hope it turns out well for you. The style of learning seems a
little different these days... the net makes it easier to find things than it
was when you could only buy local, and the wealth of CDs brings things from
around the world and across the decades into your home. I'm glad you found the
group... just like any other group of people we're weird, but I hope it turns
out to be valuable for you. Trust your ear, and play a lot.... ;-)
Jonas Saras wrote:
> Why not take the electronics from a Casio and put it into an accordion
> chassis? Actually, that's what those MIDI accordions are,
> with a 10,000% markup.
Naw, there's more to 'em that that... that's like saying that reeded accordions
are just a bunch of Marine Bands in a big pearly box.... ;-)
(I was fortunate enough to pick up a Petosa reedless recently, and it's
changing my mind dramatically... great instrument.)
Mitch Gordon wrote:
> This is a recurring thread on this newsgroup, namely, what ever
> happened to the good old days? I guess I must have pretty much missed
> the time when the door-to-door accordion salesperson palmed off
> accordions on every family, and big bands on television like Lawrence
> Welk featured an accordionist. I realize that this issue is dear to the
> hearts of a certain generation of players. But speaking for myself, I
> find it hard to care much, and I doubt that I'm alone among current
> players who do not play the big band style, do not see that
> period as a rennaisance and do not long for its return.
ooh, that's a good one... buy you a pint on that one, Mitch...?
(Here in San Francisco, people think the instrument I play is cool, and it gets
a great reaction... everybody's working too hard to watch Lawrence Welk,
though.)
Regards,
John Dowdell
Ventura
>
> ..........a teacher .........
> who was able to teach me not just accordion music but music in general.
Great point...
Folks, have you asked yourself this question -
Am I an Accordion player or am I a Musician?
Am I both? Which one comes first?
Do I narrow my horizons and stay in a little box
and want others to fit in it with me or
do I swim in the music world at large and compete
with ALL musicians proudly choosing the accordion as
my shield and sword?
A huge amount of the problems the Accordion world faced/faces
I feel has to do with their insular approach to life in general.
At least FD took a good shot at bringing a Rock and Roll
accordion to life... but how many other manufacturers, studios,
teachers didn't even try... preferring to make the world
fit in to their mold. (it didn't)
Be a Musician... be confident in what you can do...
don't take any crap... when they try and mess you up
play the hell out of your instrument and blow them off the stage.
I realise it's easy for me (personally) to say that
beause of who I am and what I know I can do...
but every single one of you has something special to offer too...
and if you give it your best to fully develop what you have
then Myth will become Fact
Ciao Ventura
Dan Lavry
> Dan, I agree on the above with you,
> however, looking from economic point of
> view whoever designs and decides to mass
> produce it very cheaply must have some
> better return on the whole product....
Hello again, my friend
Yes, of course. One can make a living by selling a few highest quality
items at very large profit margins. One can also make the same amount of
money by selling a lot more volume of lower quality at alot lower profit
margin. I belive we already have a handfull of good manufacturers that
satisfy the high quality high price low volume market. We also have some
lower priced instruments at somewhat lower quality and higher volume. Some
marketing guy once told me that in consumer electronics, when you half the
price, the volume of sales goes times 4. It may or may not be accurate, but
it makes the point.
In this case, I think the possible justification for a lot lower cost at a
lot higher volume is very valid. A quality acoustic instrument requires a
lot of labor, good materials and so on. Just the tuning alone takes time...
A reedless can be made out of plastic, the bellows can be of lesser
quality, the instrument is in tune right from the start, no leathers,
chambers, filing, sweating... A good design will "snap in place" just like
a well designed keyboard. It will happen, I belive, or at least hope so.
> So today if you can do work yourself you get
> MIDI accordion for under $400 but if you....
Doing the work yourself is great idea for some folks. I know you did such
work. I already work pretty hard 5 days a week, so I rather have the
instrument there to play. It is of course a question of personal
preference, inclination, circumstances...
> Indeed even retrofits
> are very expensive proposition for too many
> because high cost of labor. No wonder many
> of us wait for better prices hoping for
> improvements in that technology.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. That is where I stand now.
> It is nothing wrong to
> play acoustic accordion only but I love
> joined acoustic sound and the sounds from the
> MIDI. It keeps me loving accordion even
> more than before I had my MIDI retrofit
> accordion.
I am prety curious about that midi accordion stuff. Curious enough to shell
out a grand or two, but not more then that. The external sounds synth and
the amp will add to the cost, and with remote wirless midi (not absolutly
needed but nice to have) we are talking some real money. I realize it can
be great fun, and at some point I'll have it. I am sure though that playing
acoustic will always be my main thing. Certainly I am not against midi and
reedless. I love acoustic but they all have their place and their strong
points...
Best Regards
Dan Lavry
Helen P.
Welcome to the news group! Stick around and you'll learn a lot (including
some bad puns...)
You can buy a reasonable used instrument to start on for maybe $100-200 and
some minor cleanup, so don't despair. The pricier ones are better, but I
know I'm having a great time playing an Excelsior Accordiana like that right
now -- it's not perfect, but it's fun!
-- Helen
Ventura
>
> But you make an excellent positive suggestion.
> into an accordion chassis?
Stop me if I've told you all this before... but I spent years buying
early MIDI keyboards, tearing them apart and trying to stuff their
little gut's into various Accordions.
I have ruined $1000's worth of perfectly good (examples)
Korg DW-8000
Roland Alpha Juno
Akai MX 73
Korg CX3 with MIDI retrofit
and I was one of the first people to send money to that cat up
in Thunder Bay who was burning eeproms and building little MIDI boards
for crazy fools like me.
Then the first few MIDI capable accordion's came out...
but they were still anchoresd to the proprietary ball and chain of the
organ-Accordion mainboards (and cost a freaking fortune)
so I just played keyboard for awhile (for MIDI stuff) and waited
unhtil I could finally go to Italy
(in 1991... which you have all heard about)
and get something real and decent.
I mean once CD's became common, at about the same time Home Audio
equipment got so good that even a $100 reciever amp had negligible
distortion ratings, then the General Public as a whole had
their expectation level raised regarding
the level of Sound Quality music in General had to have to be acceptable
which was the absolute death knell for Organ Accordions...
I mean really, once you've listened to a CD you'd have to be deaf
in one ear and can't hear out of the other to think a
Chordovox could compete sonically with the likes of Digital sound...
and C-Vox was the King! kiddies...
The level of audio quality sophistication possessed by the general
public is the benchmark against which we have to measure ourselves
and our sound. pure "quality" Acoustic has it's place, of course,
but for Electronic sound it's GOT to be CD quality or better.
Today there is a LOT of choice, and the only reason you would pay
huge prices for MIDI is if you really want to...
because you don't have to. If you have the bucks to blow and
want that famous name (it doubles the value of the box just
having that nice 6 chrome letters attached... magic y'know)
go for it... But Alex regularly has new MIDI accordions ready to go
under $3 grand... and he's doing a MIDI Hybrid... and he
discounts the Modules... and there ARE MIDI installers out there
who can do something basic for $1000 on a lot of accordions.
so even if you don't want to take a trip
to Italy, if you shop around a bit you can do pretty good.
And Dan is right... things will get less expensive as time goes on.
and yes... for the hobbyist price IS a critical factor, but
the 40 accordion chipset (for example) is about as generic
as it gets (in spite of several American pseudo distributor/inventors
claims that they are the only ones who have it) and any Sound module
designer can add those chips to their product for @ $30 bucks
in quantity. This is a huge cost savings compared to the old days
of even 5 or 6 years ago. Heck, ORLA was
the only Italian company in the 1980's who even took their
designs through to the LSIC stage of development... and that
was because they had a large Organ building business which
allowed them the scale needed to do it.
Things ARE better now... and getting better every day.
just look at all of YOU and what a wonderful cross-section
of interest you represent
Ciao Ventura
Helen P.
Washington, DC, area:
The Fiddler's Fakebook,
New England Fiddler's Repertoire,
The Portland Collection, and
The Waltz Book I & II.
I saw dances from Hawaiian contra dancers on the ABC site; quite a few of
these tunes are *not* played for our contras. Most tunes are
straightforward jigs and reels, and some Old-Time, too.
Our contra dances typically includes contras (aka "American dancing"),
squares, plus some waltzes and the occasional hambo, schottishe, or polka.
Sets usually last for about 6 repetitions each of three tunes for contras.
The others use one tune mostly. Sometimes a set will be changed by the
leader in the middle of the dance.
The major differences between dancing and "listening" music is the distinct
beat and steady, exacting tempo for dancing.
A classical violin, for example, plays with "long bowing": long, smooth
phrases. A dance fiddler plays "short bow": giving more abrupt sound, which
helps the dancers to feel the beat. Our bellows serve much the same
function; that's one reason why the directional change of button boxes and
some concertinas feels so good for dancing -- the crisp sound.
Emphasizing the off beats makes the dancers feel light and frisky. Give the
bellows a good squeeze! An over-heavy main beat can sound leaden and
oppressive.
Tempo can make or break a dance. Too slow, and the dancers feel bored, and
have to pause slightly before each step -- miserable! Too fast, and there's
not enough time to do the footwork and do the dance figures in time --
frantic! Whatever tempo you chose, keep it steady, or the dancers will be
tripping over themselves.
An easy tempo check when playing is to look out at the dancers. If the
tempo's just right, it'll seem like every head in the hall is moving up and
down simultaneously. Either too fast or too slow, and people will be out of
synch (note that beginners may be out of step even if you're playing
perfectly).
-- Helen
who also dances wa-a-a-ay too much
fred veenschoten wrote in message <8tv440$b8o$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>...
bogus address
> The factors you mentioned: difficulty of learning, cost of the
> instrument - these equally apply to the Concertina - yet interest
> is steadily growing in this instrument! There has to be something
> else amiss.
In Scotland, the accordion is doing fine; there are stacks of young
players coming up. Whereas the concertina is truly obscure; there
is only one "name" player of the thing in the whole country and he
hasn't persuaded anybody else to go for it.
This is because the accordion is identified with Scottish music, and
as such benefits from the increasing confidence in Scotland's cultural
identity over the last decade or so. You're making an affirmative-
but-bigotry-free statement of pride in your nation by playing one.
The nearest the US gets to that is the banjo; there isn't a body of
music for the accordion which is both distinctively American and which
makes a statement about the contemporary world (or maybe the Tex-Mex
and Cajun folks are doing that? I don't know their music at all well,
but it obviously can't be making more than a regional statement anyway).
And jazz isn't a populist or distinctively national form any more, so
even if more accordionists wanted to play it, it couldn't be the basis
for a cultural phenomenon.
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
fred veenschoten
jigs? the few times we played for dances the caller was always trying to
speed us up which we would do for about one time through then gradually slow
back down. it was frustrating for all. thankfully we were not the only band
there.
Fred
P.S. in the DC dance scene do you know Tom Hall. he moved there from
Pensacola, fl.
Helen P. wrote in message <8u0ahk$6nv$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>...
Macromed5
> ...a whole crowd of underage girls chasing an accordion player down
> the auditorium aisles... Boozoo Chavez certainly had women throwing
> their underwear up on stage for him.
Whoa, hold it, back up a second there... Now, *which* volume of Palmer-Hughes
was it that had the lessons on this stuff...!?
Regards,
John Dowdell
Dennis Steckley
Mitch--I agree with you 100%!
Dennis Steckley
"For I am possessed of a cat, surpassing in beauty, from whom I take
occasion to bless Almighty God."
----- Original Message -----
Subject: SML: Re: Accordion Comeback=Myth
> Really-Reply-To: mitc...@aol.com (Mitch Gordon)
> Really-From: mitc...@aol.com (Mitch Gordon)
>
> This is a recurring thread on this newsgroup, namely, what ever happened
to the
> good old daysBut
> speaking for myself, I find it hard to care much, and I doubt that I'm
alone
> among current players who do not play the big band style, do not see that
> period as a rennaisance and do not long for its return.
Dennis Steckley
Gee, Phil--I didn't know you had such a talent for destruction! ;>)
Dennis Steckley
"For I am possessed of a cat, surpassing in beauty, from whom I take
occasion to bless Almighty God."
----- Original Message ----- > Really-Reply-To: Ventura
<dr...@maxinter.net>
> Really-From: Ventura <dr...@maxinter.net>
>
. but I spent years buying
> early MIDI keyboards, tearing them apart and trying to stuff their
> little gut's into various Accordions.
>
> I have ruined $1000's worth of perfectly good (examples)
> Korg DW-8000
> Roland Alpha Juno
> Akai MX 73
> Korg CX3 with MIDI retrofit
>
>
To Post a message, send it to: squee...@eGroups.com
Tom Sullivan
youth students,
are the parents who were burned by some of the old "sell-'em-an-Accordion"
teachers/studios/stores. I witnessed Accordion sales with as
much as 700% mark-up. This usually went along with staunch "old school"
teaching methods>>
I don't have any answers but FWIT< 2 stories...
Just the other day I went to one of the finest, locally owned guitar store to
buy a guitar - which I did. Had a long conversation with the owners (I have a
poster ofr our next accordion festival in their window.)
One owner went on to tell me how much he like the accordion - has one of his
own that he plays from time to time. The other owner preceeded to tell me of
his experience in getting his son accordion lessons from one of the old hands
in our area. Had some fine lessons, learned a solid base of theory - did well,
enjoyed it.etc.
The said instructor then said that if she was going to keep teaching the lad,
and if he was to "progress", then he(or Dad) had to buy a $2000 accordion from
her. The Dad balked at the idea - (in his guitar store, you can buy a
professional level guitar (or 2) for $2000) - the instructor said my way or the
highway. The man's son now plays guitar.
Story 2.. my wife teaches elementary band. Even with rental instruments and
school time lessons and a paid instructor, she has all she can do to get kids
to continue to the next level - on insturment that THEY see little future in
(except for sax and drums!)
Anyway,
Have a g'day
Tom Sullivan
amanda dillon
Here, Here, Lee!
You cut it right to the quick, girl!
And as far as Boozoo is concerned, he's so cool that
if I ever saw him on stage I'd give him my undies,
too--I just don't know how good he would look in them!
(Probably about as good as me....)
Rock on,
Mandy
("If Don Knotts and Bette Midler ever had a child...")
> If you want somebody "cool" who plays piano
> accordion, look at the zydeco players. Boozoo
Chavez certainly had women throwing their underwear up
> on stage for him. But the type of playing
*you're*looking for is almost inherently incompatible
with that image of coolness. I think that's the real
problem, not that the instrument itself is unpopular.
> Lee M.Thompson-Herbert KD6WUR
> l...@retro.com
> Head Muso, White Rats Morris
> Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and
> Jill of All Trades.
> "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and
> Martha Stewart"
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Helen P.
newbie... ;-)
-- Helen
yeeeOUCH!
Dennis Steckley wrote in message <008c01c04686$4db148c0$adc051d1@default>...
>
>Gee, Phil--I didn't know you had such a talent for destruction! ;>)
>
>Dennis Steckley
>> Really-From: Ventura <dr...@maxinter.net>
Helen P.
accordion. :-)
-- Helen
gleefully bounding between playing and dancing Scottish Country tomorrow...
bogus address wrote in message <67...@purr.demon.co.uk>...
>
>This is because the accordion is identified with Scottish music...
Saramac
Thank you for the beautifully spoken words. We all need some encouraging
words once in a while. The accordion club we go to has mostly elder players
and they have all the old standards...which is fine. Whenever eX or I attempt
anything new, we get the funny looks. I try to learn the old stiuff, some of
it I like, but it's not what eX or I really want to do. I want to learn
everything I don't hear at the club. She plays what she likes and I play what
I like. Sometimes we play together...but we both feel odd sometimes when we
play at the club. The good thing is that we have a new president who is now
offering free lessons before the meeting....I think he is more likely to play
whatever the heck he wants..and that's fine with me.-
Thanks again for the good words
Squeezin Sarah
Lee Thompson-Herbert
Macromed5 <macr...@aol.com> wrote:
>Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
>> ...a whole crowd of underage girls chasing an accordion player down
>> their underwear up on stage for him.
>
>was it that had the lessons on this stuff...!?
Tha's my point. If you wanna be cool and get the women, definitely don't
play "standards" and don't take lessons from a studio. They forget to teach
you the "radiate sex appeal" part. ;}
--
Helen P.
too...? ;-)
-- Helen
Chris Moran
Ya' know, Lee,
There is an Indian Sikh "Elvis" who performs in a white, metal-studded
Las-Vegas suit and a bright red turban and if we could put a really garish,
rhinestoned D/G Morris box in his hands, I think we might have ourselves
the Ultimate Accordion Cool!
!!!!!,
Chris Moran
THE ERIN BREEZE at http://www.buttonaccordion.com
(909) 624-9609
----------------------------
>In article <20001104122040...@ng-bk1.aol.com>,
>Macromed5 <macr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
>>> ...a whole crowd of underage girls chasing an accordion player down
>>> the auditorium aisles... Boozoo Chavez certainly had women throwing
>>> their underwear up on stage for him.
>>
>>Whoa, hold it, back up a second there... Now, *which* volume of Palmer-Hughes
>>was it that had the lessons on this stuff...!?
>
>Tha's my point. If you wanna be cool and get the women, definitely don't
>play "standards" and don't take lessons from a studio. They forget to teach
>you the "radiate sex appeal" part. ;}
>
>--
>Lee M.Thompson-Herbert KD6WUR l...@retro.com
>Head Muso, White Rats Morris
>Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
>"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
>
>
Michael A.
> think Sedlon is an excellent method (used it in Cleveland for
> years back
> in the 50's and 60's).
I learned on the Sedlon method, and don't think it's bad like some people
here say. Much depends on the teaching ability of the instructor, and
whether the Sedlon/PH books are supplemented with other music and
instruction on harmony, improvising, etc.
One of the main reasons the accordion will never be as popular as guitar,
drums, etc., is that it is a more difficult instrument to start out with and
it can't be easily "faked". Anybody can pick up a guitar or drumsticks and
have some fun, but to play well requires diligent work and discipline. To
make an accordion sound anything less than horrible usually requires some
diligent work and discipline right from the start.
The great thing about the accordion, IMHO, is that it prepares you for
nearly all kinds of music -- it really is a "music education in a box". You
learn treble clef, bass clef, rhythm, phrasing, tone color, and dynamics,
and the best part is that you can either play with others or all by yourself
with no accompaniment necessary.
Mike
Helen P.
Sorry, but I'm not the one to ask for a numerical beats per minute count.
It does vary, depending on the type of dancing, the experience level of the
caller and dancers, and the current mood & situation (e.g., dances are
slower at the beginning of an evening, and faster after everyone has warmed
up).
For example, both Scottish Country and English Country have an "Irish Rover"
dance, using the same tune. It can be very frisky in Scottish, barely
allowing time for experienced dancers to complete the figures, or it may be
slower and comfortable. Either has its place. In the English, the tune may
be played wa-ay slower, to match the smoother dance style.
The best bet is to dance yourself, and look at the dancers from often while
playing. Tapping a foot, or rocking slightly sideways while playing may
also help you get the feel for the tempo. At home, you can also record
yourself, try dancing to it, adjust tempo, rerecord, dance, etc., until it
feels right.
Maintaining tempo is really important for dancing, so it's worth some effort
to get it right, even though it's not easy. Practice with a metronome
sometimes to check yourself.
Good luck!
Tom Hall sounds very familiar. What does he look like & play, and what
kinds of music & dance does he do?
-- Helen
fred veenschoten wrote in message <8u1d70$plh$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>...
Gary Dahl
helps.
re. Sedlon
...I ask every transfer student to bring their Sedlon and or Palmer
Hughes books to the first few lessons because I need to gauge their
level. The Palmer Hughes Books contain a very high level of arranging
and pedagogy brilliance. The Sedlon books are outdated, contain very
poor arranging and erratic pedagogy standards. ( PH is also outdated a
little in a few books) I have to rearrange EVERY so-called arrangement
in the Sedlon books if the student wants to learn a certain piece. My
conclusion: Burn all Sedlon books! Please! This would eliminate one
major negative for the accordion!
GD
Gary Dahl
Puyallup, Washington (near Seattle)
USA
..please visit this site for Books, Sheet Music, Recordings, Harmony
and Chord Applications Course and an easy, effective lessons by
correspondence method.
http://www.accordions.com/garydahl
(listen to 4 sound files)
..to view 20 arrangements!
http://janpress.freeservers.com/janpress.htm
http://users.aol.com/accrdnmn/
(hear Clarinet Polka and click on the eiffel tower for a French Tango)
Michael A.
But the memories! I remember hauling those Sedlon books with my heavy
accordion up the hill to my teacher's house on a chilly night back in 1962,
with a light snow on the sidewalk, Christmas lights blinking in the
neighborhood windows...
Sort of my version of a Charlie Brown Christmas -- all was right with the
world <g>
BTW, here in Central Pennsylvania, I don't remember ever seeing P/H books
sold in the music stores. Sedlon was pretty much it. I didn't even find out
about P/H until much later, and then I was surprised to learn that there was
*another* method!
Mike
Gary Dahl
Michael Berenstein
> Folks, have you asked yourself this question -
>
> Am I an Accordion player or am I a Musician?
> Am I both? Which one comes first?
I'd like to agree. It would be my dream to become one, but been realistic, I
must say - it will never come true.
So the question often is: to try to become humble (but OK) box player or to
try to become a musician, having only one (1) hour a day for practice.
I my study of bayan with instructor, I came to the point that to really
fulfill his expectations and do the homework, I need at least 2 hours a day.
Where to find them? And he said that upon sertain level I would need 4, or I
will stay where I am.
Be realistic. I don't see anything wrong with becoming just box player and
not been a 'musician' per se, but in ideal world I am behind you 200%.
Ventura
Michael Berenstein wrote:
> >
> > Am I an Accordion player or am I a Musician?
> > Am I both? Which one comes first?
>
> I'd like to agree. It would be my dream to become one, but been realistic, I
> must say - i......................
> to try to become humble (but OK) box player
It seems to me that you have the best outlook for
Michael Berenstein... You have given it thought, and based on
reality of life conclude that you can honestly devote
this certain amount of time.
You are not limiting your dedication in any way
You are not limiting your enthusiasm in any way
And I have no doubt you will be as good as you can be
under these circumstances.
Also, I think you will be intelligent enough not to devote
too much of your limited time toward some special technical
end... like for instance if you devoted all your effort to learning
to sight read you would leave other important aspects behind.
So it can not be said that because, for instance, you might not
be able to walk into a Studio, sit down with strangers,
sight read some strange music to help someone you never meet
with recording for a beer commercial...
that you are not good musician.
You are getting good, you will get better,
and no doubt you will share your musical talent
with many people and make them happy when you play.
As I said, I think everyone should so examine their
position, be honest, and do the best they can.
Ciao Ventura
Jimattheboxofc
>too...? ;-)
Ha ha -- You dazzle us all with your posts Helen...
Ralph Stricker
"Jonas" <sara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I live in the So. California area (the music capital of the world!?!). As a
>professional musician, I am often busy and cannot take work that would be
>more suitable for a student-level player.
>
>The problem is that there are no students who can even read a simple polka!
>I've tried calling several studios and teachers in this area, offering
>simple jobs (playing for ethnic folk dance groups for example). Their
>response is that they currently do not have any students that could play the
>material. One teacher told me that they no longer even teach accordion and
>have switched to teaching piano!
I agree. There are not many qualified accordion teachers. Therefore the ability of most students
is not very good. I am not saying that there are not some good and up-coming students, but they
are rare.
>
>Where is "the comeback of the accordion" that is touted by the accordion
>establishment (names left out to protect the guilty)?
>A large portion of the blame rests with accordion teachers.
The "comeback" of the accordion is a statistical aberration. People feel that because there has
been an increase in commercials featuring an accordion, they equate that with a surge in
popularity. The accordion will never achieve the heights that it once had.
>I recently accepted an adult student who was about to sell her instrument
>back to a music store because of her frustration with several accordion
>teachers. In short, they were unable or unwilling to teach an adult (I
>guess they prefer to teach kids baby music because they can't play anything
>beyond that themselves) and were very unprofessional in their demeanor
>(asking for payment for a month of lessons in advance, and then the teacher
>didn't show up for the lessons!). The woman told me that I was the only
>teacher who was interested in teaching adults. The accepted method books
>(PH, Sedlon) are pretty awful, especially for adults, so I have taken to
>adapting piano method books and pieces.
I have posted numerous times concerning PH, Sedlon that they are useless. I also advise using
piano material and arranging it for the accordion. There is a "Bach for the beginner"
(Schirmer)that is a marvelous tutorial for accordion. It teaches a student to use correct
fingers and independence of hands.
>
>Is there anybody out there who can offer a real glimmer of hope for this
>dismal situation?
We need a young good looking kid who can play the accordion well and appeal to the youngsters. A
promotion by some big record company booking this person on major TV shows. Oprah Winfrey, Rosie
O'Donnell etc.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ralph Stricker "Silver Fox"
Jimattheboxofc
polka!>>I've tried calling several >>studios and teachers in this area,
offering
>>simple jobs (playing for ethnic folk dance groups for >>example)
Ralph,
I think perhaps your lack of education regarding Traditonal Folk Dance Music is
showing here.
Jim c
http://membes.aol.com/jimattheboxofc/
Ralph Stricker
jimatth...@aol.com (Jimattheboxofc) wrote:
I think your lack of reading whose post it is, is showing. I never posted anything rgarding
"ethnic folk dance/traditional folk dance music."
Incidentally I have played more ethnic folk dances that most of ever will.
Toby Hanson
> >>The problem is that there are no students who can >>even read a simple
> polka!>>I've tried calling several >>studios and teachers in this area,
> offering
> >>simple jobs (playing for ethnic folk dance groups for >>example)
>
> Ralph,
>
> I think perhaps your lack of education regarding Traditonal Folk Dance
Music is
> showing here.
And I think your lack of education regarding Usenet is showing here. The
quote string should have properly been attributed to Jonas Aras who was
the original poster that Ralph was replying to.
--
Intermountain Tire-
For all your traction needs see the fine folks at
Intermountain Tire today!
"Get out of my office you lousy talking mime!"
Jimattheboxofc
wrote it and whoever it was - same goes to him/her/it ;-)))
Ralph Stricker
jimatth...@aol.com (Jimattheboxofc) wrote:
I probably have made the same mistake.
Saramac
> been an increase in commercials featuring an accordion, they equate that with a surge in
> popularity. The accordion will never achieve the heights that it once had.
>
'Round here, you can't spit without hitting an accordion player. And I know it's even more popular
in other states, like California, than it is here. There are stores, there are clubs, there are
sites galore, there are bands that showcase it! I have yet to meet more accordion-haters than I
could count on one hand which is very encouraging.
It's not an aberration....it's a damn good start.
>
> I have posted numerous times concerning PH, Sedlon that they are useless.
And I'll say what I always say--it's better than nothing.
> We need a young good looking kid who can play the accordion well and appeal to the youngsters. A
> promotion by some big record company booking this person on major TV shows. Oprah Winfrey, Rosie
> O'Donnell etc.
Have you seen/heard Hunter Hayes? He is an eight-year-old zydeco player. He is AMAZING, I saw him
play on the Maury Povich show in August and it just blew my mind how good he is. Give him a few
years and he'll be breaking hearts all over the place. :)
Sister eX
>
>
bogus address
Ralph Stricker <bjp...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> I agree. There are not many qualified accordion teachers.
> Therefore the ability of most students is not very good.
Are you thinking exclusively of classical accordion? For Scottish music,
the best teacher near me does happen to have a music degree, but the idea
that that was essential to being a good teacher had never crossed my mind.
I doubt if anyone looking for a teacher would consider any factors other
than (a) can this person play well? (b) do they have a helpful attitude
and a personality that's easy to get on with?
The Republic of Ireland has a system of state-regulated curricula for
traditional music; I hope to god we never get anything that authoritarian
here. I'm not sure how much real impact the Irish system has had, for
that matter - Irish musicians I've met don't even mention it.
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
Jimattheboxofc
traditional music;
Really, Is that right? -- do tell more!!
I havent been to Ireland for 10 years now -- but I am active in the NY Irish
Music scene and never heard of a state regulated curricula.
Jim C.
http://members.aol.com/jimattheboxofc/
gary.blair
>
> > We need a young good looking kid who can play the accordion well and
appeal to the youngsters. A
> > promotion by some big record company booking this person on major TV
shows. Oprah Winfrey, Rosie
> > O'Donnell etc.
>
> Have you seen/heard Hunter Hayes? He is an eight-year-old zydeco player.
He is AMAZING, I saw him
> play on the Maury Povich show in August and it just blew my mind how good
he is. Give him a few
> years and he'll be breaking hearts all over the place. :)
>
> Sister eX
Hunter is indeed an incredible talent and was featured in Povich's
''audience requests'' a few
months ago ( at least that is when it was shown in the UK).
You want to get Vincenzo Abbraciante ( 17) over to the states and I
guarantee he would
blow them away. He is ultra cool, great looking and one of the finest PA
players I have
ever heard. He also happens to be an extremly nice guy with a great sense of
humour.
Regards
Gary Blair (scotland)
Crs smitty
>> The "comeback" of the accordion is a statistical aberration. People feel
>that because there has
>> been an increase in commercials featuring an accordion, they equate that
>with a surge in
>> popularity. The accordion will never achieve the heights that it once had.
>>
>
>'Round here, you can't spit without hitting an accordion player. And I know
>it's even more popular
>in other states, like California, than it is here. There are stores, there
>are clubs, there are
>sites galore, there are bands that showcase it! I have yet to meet more
>accordion-haters than I
>could count on one hand which is very encouraging.
>It's not an aberration....it's a damn good start.
>
>>
>> I have posted numerous times concerning PH, Sedlon that they are useless.
>
>And I'll say what I always say--it's better than nothing.
>
>to the youngsters. A
>> promotion by some big record company booking this person on major TV shows.
>Oprah Winfrey, Rosie
>> O'Donnell etc.
>
>Have you seen/heard Hunter Hayes? He is an eight-year-old zydeco player. He
>is AMAZING, I saw him
>play on the Maury Povich show in August and it just blew my mind how good he
>is. Give him a few
>years and he'll be breaking hearts all over the place. :)
>
>Sister eX
>
>
Regarding the comeback being a statistical aberration and it never reaching the
heights it had once achieved: maybe - maybe not! For one thing times are
different and there are many more distractions in the world today as the former
heights of the accordion were mostly pre-TV/video games/computers for most of
us. Though I grew up in that era of the golden age of the accordion - or
mostly towards the end of it I am not sure of its real "heights" as in those
days I was mostly affected by the media and peer pressures like others were.
We keep hearing, yet refuse to listen to, people in other countries who never
saw such heights of accordion popularity but also never saw any demise of
accordion popularity. I think that hearing accordion music in ads and
increasingly in popular songs is one heck of a start here in the United States
to bringing the accordion back into popularity here, after all it is basically
just another musical instrument but one which can bring one lots of pleasure as
it does not require the accompaniment that other instruments do! Sometimes I
think the real myth is the so-called "golden age of the accordion" - sure their
were more people per capita playing it but there was a lot less to do in those
days.
As to Hunter Hayes - a remarkable young lad who plays one row cajun accordion
and sings even in French. He is often on shows on the Nashville network and
appeared on the old Regis & Kathy Lee show a few years ago when they did some
shows from New Orleans during Mardis Gras. I also heard that he is often in
Branson Missouri performing. I believe he was performing since he was about
five years old! One advantage to the one row box is even little kids can
handle them easily.
Ciao!
Ron Smith, Montana Squeezer
Dennis Steckley
I can offer only anecdotal evidence. I'm 49, and as a child I saw and heard
only one accordionist--Myron Floren (well, and Lawrence himself!) other than
one lady in our church who on two occasions played for a children's service.
The only accordion I ever saw was that lady's.
In the last ten years--despite all the accordion jokes--I have seen and
heard LOTS of accordions on television, on the radio, etc. A good many of
these are various sorts of button boxes or smaller instruments--not 41/120
PAs, but the point still holds. They are hardly as common as a violin or a
trumpet, but there must be some sort of resurgence!
I think one problem with an accordion-resurgence is that an "entry-level"
student model is relatively expensive--and relatively delicate compared to a
clarinet or a cornet, trombone, etc.
Dennis Steckley
"For I am possessed of a cat, surpassing in beauty, from whom I take
occasion to bless Almighty God."
----- Original Message -----
From: <use...@d-and-d.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.squeezebox
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 3:19 PM
Subject: SML: Re: Accordion Comeback=Myth
> Really-Reply-To: crss...@aol.com (Crs smitty)
> Really-From: crss...@aol.com (Crs smitty)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Processed through gateway at d-and-d.com to squeezebox
> mailing list from newsgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox
bogus address
> I think one problem with an accordion-resurgence is that an
> "entry-level" student model is relatively expensive--and
Expensive compared to a clarinet, yeah. Delicate? You don't have to
scrape an accordion with a razor blade before you get your first note
out of it.
[ Please don't quote entire messages when following up, we read it first
time. ]
Ralph Stricker
Saramac <sar...@teleport.com> wrote:
>> The "comeback" of the accordion is a statistical aberration. People feel that because there
has
>> been an increase in commercials featuring an accordion, they equate that with a surge in
>> popularity. The accordion will never achieve the heights that it once had.
>>
>
>'Round here, you can't spit without hitting an accordion player. And I know it's even more
popular
>in other states, like California, than it is here. There are stores, there are clubs, there are
>sites galore, there are bands that showcase it! I have yet to meet more accordion-haters than I
>could count on one hand which is very encouraging.
>It's not an aberration....it's a damn good start.
>
>>
>> I have posted numerous times concerning PH, Sedlon that they are useless.
>
>And I'll say what I always say--it's better than nothing.
That's exactly what they are.
>
>> We need a young good looking kid who can play the accordion well and appeal to the
youngsters. A
>> promotion by some big record company booking this person on major TV shows. Oprah Winfrey,
Rosie
>> O'Donnell etc.
>
>Have you seen/heard Hunter Hayes? He is an eight-year-old zydeco player. He is AMAZING, I saw
him
>play on the Maury Povich show in August and it just blew my mind how good he is. Give him a few
>years and he'll be breaking hearts all over the place. :)
>
>Sister eX
>
listening to some of these players breaks my heart. Also my ear drums.
Ralph Stricker
"Dennis Steckley" <st...@megsinet.net> wrote:
>
>I can offer only anecdotal evidence. I'm 49, and as a child I saw and heard
>only one accordionist--Myron Floren (well, and Lawrence himself!) other than
>one lady in our church who on two occasions played for a children's service.
>The only accordion I ever saw was that lady's.
My deepest sympathy. :-)
>
>In the last ten years--despite all the accordion jokes--I have seen and
>heard LOTS of accordions on television, on the radio, etc. A good many of
>these are various sorts of button boxes or smaller instruments--not 41/120
>PAs, but the point still holds. They are hardly as common as a violin or a
>trumpet, but there must be some sort of resurgence!
Most of the "accordion" you hear in the movies/television/commercials is one person Frank
Marocco.
>
>I think one problem with an accordion-resurgence is that an "entry-level"
>student model is relatively expensive--and relatively delicate compared to a
>clarinet or a cornet, trombone, etc.
This is true. When I first started teaching, 12 basses were $25.00 (wholesale).
Regards
Ralph Stricker
>
>Dennis Steckley
>"For I am possessed of a cat, surpassing in beauty, from whom I take
>occasion to bless Almighty God."
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <use...@d-and-d.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.squeezebox
>Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 3:19 PM
>Subject: SML: Re: Accordion Comeback=Myth
>
>
Ralph Stricker "Silver Fox"
Saramac
> ave seen and
> >heard LOTS of accordions on television, on the radio, etc. A good many of
> >these are various sorts of button boxes or smaller instruments--not 41/120
> >PAs, but the point still holds. They are hardly as common as a violin or a
> >trumpet, but there must be some sort of resurgence!
>
> Most of the "accordion" you hear in the movies/television/commercials is one person Frank
> Marocco.
That's beside the point. Kids and adults these days watch more TV than ever. If they're gonna
be staring at the TV
watching commercial after commercial, at least they're hearing accordions in 'em.
Sister eX
Saramac
> >
> >Have you seen/heard Hunter Hayes? He is an eight-year-old zydeco player. He is AMAZING, I saw
> him
> >play on the Maury Povich show in August and it just blew my mind how good he is. Give him a few
> >years and he'll be breaking hearts all over the place. :)
> >
> >Sister eX
> >
> listening to some of these players breaks my heart. Also my ear drums.
> Regards
> Ralph Stricker
> >>
Is it because he plays a one-row button box that you say this? If he played classical or jazz on a
PA you would probably already know of him.
Sister eX
Ralph Stricker
Saramac <sar...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Have you seen/heard Hunter Hayes? He is an eight-year-old zydeco player. He is AMAZING, I
saw
>> him
>> >play on the Maury Povich show in August and it just blew my mind how good he is. Give him a
few
>> >years and he'll be breaking hearts all over the place. :)
>> >
>> >Sister eX
>> >
>> listening to some of these players breaks my heart. Also my ear drums.
>> Regards
>> Ralph Stricker
>> >>
>
>Is it because he plays a one-row button box that you say this? If he played classical or jazz
on a
>PA you would probably already know of him.
>
>Sister eX
>
>
No. I don't care what anyone plays. If it is good, I enjoy it and complement the person. I
don't equate good playing because it is jazz or classical. A while back someone sent me (can't
remember who) a tape of a person named David Townsend. I believe some of you in previous posts
have mentioned him. Well, the playing is terrible. He sounds like a beginner. His changes suck,
he has no conception of jazz. I'm sorry if I am offending someone, but I have to say it as it
is.
Saramac
> scrape an accordion with a razor blade before you get your first note
> out of it.
>
>
Thank God for small favors! Also: We only have to replace our reeds after *years*
of use, not weeks or months.....
Sister eX
Jim Lucas
> No. I don't care what anyone plays. If it is good,
> I enjoy it and complement the person. I don't
> equate good playing because it is jazz or classical.
> named David Townsend. I believe some of you in
> previous posts have mentioned him. Well, the
> playing is terrible. He sounds like a beginner. His
> changes suck, he has no conception of jazz.
Let's repeat two bits of that:
"I don't equate good playing because it is jazz...."
"...he has no conception of jazz."
You say you don't, but then you do. Which are we supposed to believe?
The Dave Townsend I know plays English concertina, fiddle, and DBB.
I've never seen him try PA. He plays (and records) music of various
traditions, including written traditions (he's heavily into West
Gallery music and Playford-era country dance music; I've also heard
him play Bach). I've never heard of him claiming to play jazz.
The chords, chord changes and harmonies of these other traditions are
not those of jazz. Generally they are simpler ("like a beginner"?
"changes suck"?), but they are an inherent part of those traditions.
They are appropriate. Jazz arrangements would be inappropriate
(though some might be interesting and even enjoyable).
Also, I wonder what tape you received, as Dave has recorded many, in
differing styles. In particular, much of his recording is strictly
traditional, but some is more adventurous. On "Alianza" he
collaborates with an Andean group to create a blend of traditional
English and South American musics. It's different; it's exciting,
even though it's definitely not "jazz".
Now I'm not saying you have to like Dave's playing, but if you're
going to judge him, you should do so by standards appropriate to what
he does. Tiger Woods has never played in American baseball's World
Series, but that doesn't make him a lousy athlete.
/Jim Lucas
Ralph Stricker
"Jim Lucas" <j...@danbbs.dk> wrote:
I didn't say it was bad because he didn't play jazz correctly. It was all bad, every song was
amateurish. It also was not a PA, I never said it was.
Ralph Stricker
Ralph Stricker "Silver Fox"
JEPatterson
>than "Sharpshooter's March" we'll always face a shortage of qualified
>players.
I am new to the issues, but I don't think this is the problem. I think
Sharpshooter's March and the like were very inspiring to my young son. His
accordion teacher didn't try to find music of his generation to learn. He
brought my son into his generation, which was tremendously educational and
fulfilling to him. If you are trying to entice today's purple dyed hair kids
into learning the accordion, of course you need to find their kind of music and
present it, but I think that is actually the problem. It becomes a fad and a
joke. On Thanksgiving Day we watched the news and endured a segment on Turkey
Bowling accompanied by some silly accordionists doing polka music. As if it
wasn't bad enough to be vegetarian and watch the disrespect of the life of that
turkey being thrown repeatedly into cans of food on a day of thanks to God, it
had to be done to silly music by the accordion, our beloved instrument that is
frequently made part of a joke. This is common exposure this instrument is
getting. Who is to blame? Why would any parent put the kind of money necessary
into this instrument and lessons, with it's go nowhere reputation? I know lots
of kids who think the accordion is "cool," for all the wrong reasons. And even
if they did talk their parents into lessons, the music stores don't even stock
a picture of an accordion, and they snicker when you ask about accordion music.
So why even try to reach the kid's interest when the music stores, and society
as a whole have not been convinced of it's worth and are not prepared for a new
generation? Again, who is to blame? It could be a combination of the music
stores, the associations, the media, the heavy one-side polka exposure, and
every concerned accordionist who is doing nothing, etc. I know one thing,
there are many little boys who would love to learn Sharpshooter's March and I'm
grateful to my son's accordion teacher who brought my son into his world of
dignified accordion music, instead of trying to play down to him with
stupidness. Teaching music like Sharpshooter's March is not the problem at
all. This will not change the stupid accordion reputation that is being put in
our face every day.
Present the accordion in a respectable manner and they will come. Respectable
exposure is the key. I haven't seen much of that our way, but then again we
are pretty close to Cleveland.
June.
Toby Hanson
<bjp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I agree with you in many ways. There is nothing wrong with the
Sharpshooter's March. In fact
> learning Jolly Caballero, Trieste Overture etc. is fine as long as they
do not become the "bench
> mark" of studying the accordion. The good teacher is able to go from
those songs into classical
> songs, Bach etc. Then introduce the student to harmony & theory, jazz,
ear training,
> improvisation. The problem is how many teachers are there that can do this?
> As far as music stores not respecting accordion music and or the
accordion. Let the instrument
> become popular and see how fast these people start having accordion
music, accordions for sale
> etc.
Well said, Ralph. That was my point exactly. "Sharpshooter's" as a part
of the process is fine. "Sharpshooter's" as the end of the process,
however, is part of the problem.
--
Bar H-L Trucking-
Hauling acid all over Nevada!
Ralph Stricker
jepat...@aol.com (JEPatterson) wrote:
I agree with you in many ways. There is nothing wrong with the Sharpshooter's March. In fact
learning Jolly Caballero, Trieste Overture etc. is fine as long as they do not become the "bench
mark" of studying the accordion. The good teacher is able to go from those songs into classical
songs, Bach etc. Then introduce the student to harmony & theory, jazz, ear training,
improvisation. The problem is how many teachers are there that can do this?
As far as music stores not respecting accordion music and or the accordion. Let the instrument
become popular and see how fast these people start having accordion music, accordions for sale
etc.
Regards
David Batty
>improvisation. The problem is how many teachers are there that can do this?
Sometimes it's the accordion teachers who keep the instrument back,
insisting that pupils change their left hand fingering to a 'standard'
fingering and insisting that pupils work constantly towards grades and
exams without any fun or improvisation. I know pupils who are
frightened to tell their teacher that they are playing certain pieces
the teacher has banned them from playing, these are often easy pieces
the pupil enjoys because that's the type of music the pupil likes but
he/she would be in trouble if their teacher knew they were playing 'non
standard' fun things, especially close to a competition. Most pupils I
know seem to learn how to sit and hide behind a music stand playing
standard pieces rather than learning to project the instrument and
themselves by interacting with the audience even if it is just a little
eye contact if they can't play without having to read the music or
announcing the title of the next piece rather than just opening the
music and starting to play. Sheet music is only the instruction manual
to a tune but for many it never enters their head that they could learn
some pieces properly so that they can play without having to have the
music in front of them. Many of them ignore the audience and simply
concentrate on the music as though the audience wasn't there. Few
realise that if they go out to play somewhere, the people who would be
listening to them aren't going to be there to complement the player on
their technical exactitude but are there to be entertained.
David Batty
***************************************
Visit Leyland Accordion Club Website at
http://www.accordionclub.co.uk
email da...@accordionclub.co.uk
***************************************
Gert-Jan Kamphorst
"David Batty" <da...@sectorsoftware.demon.co.uk> schreef in bericht news:KqxfetAc...@sectorsoftware.demon.co.uk...
| In article <8vsdji$3op$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>, Ralph Stricker
| <bjp...@ix.netcom.com> writes
| >improvisation. The problem is how many teachers are there that can do this?
|
| Most pupils I
| know seem to learn how to sit and hide behind a music stand playing
| standard pieces rather than learning to project the instrument and
| themselves by interacting with the audience even if it is just a little
| eye contact if they can't play without having to read the music or
| announcing the title of the next piece rather than just opening the
| music and starting to play. Sheet music is only the instruction manual
| to a tune but for many it never enters their head that they could learn
| some pieces properly so that they can play without having to have the
| music in front of them. Many of them ignore the audience and simply
| concentrate on the music as though the audience wasn't there. Few
| realise that if they go out to play somewhere, the people who would be
| listening to them aren't going to be there to complement the player on
| their technical exactitude but are there to be entertained.
In Amsterdam I run a lessons organisation for 8 different groups of DBB players (67 in total). We never use sheet music and in 1998
and 1999 we even had courses on presentation to the public of your own favorite tunes. When I compare our results with those other
organisations, our pupils are more free to play in public. they can stand up and walk and are not resticted in their moves by a
music standard. also the music is more lively tho not every time correct (but thats the way the old folk tunes develop, isn't it?
Gert-Jan
Ventura
>
> In Amsterdam I run a lessons organisation ...... (67 in total).
> our pupils are more free to play in public.
Wonderful results.. and your program is a great asset to
the musicians and culture of the Nederlands
This proves that teaching how to enjoy yourself and how to entertain
is at least as important as the "ABC's"
You also affirm my deep belief that ANYONE can learn
to play from memory. It is NOT a talent... it is simply a state of
confidence and a state of mind... and I believe to be truly free
to express your emotions when you perform, this is an
absolute neccessity.
Ciao Ventura
gary.blair
> Sometimes it's the accordion teachers who keep the instrument back,
> insisting that pupils change their left hand fingering to a 'standard'
> fingering and insisting that pupils work constantly towards grades and
instruction manual
> to a tune but for many it never enters their head that they could learn
> some pieces properly so that they can play without having to have the
> music in front of them. Many of them ignore the audience and simply
> concentrate on the music as though the audience wasn't there. Few
> realise that if they go out to play somewhere, the people who would be
> listening to them aren't going to be there to complement the player on
> their technical exactitude but are there to be entertained.
>
I couldn't agree more with your statement regarding the use of music in a
comcert setting.
I know Virtuoso players that can hardly play with out it.
However, I don't understand your statement regarding teachers keeping the
instrument
back through teaching a ''standard'' fingering in the Bass ???
Could you elaborate please
Regards
Gary Blair (scotland)
To Post a message, send it to: squee...@eGroups.com
H Davis
gary.blair wrote:
>
for many it never enters their head that they could learn
> > some pieces properly so that they can play without having to have the
> > music in front of them.
FWIW - When I used to perform professionally, I always had music with
me. With a repertoire of many hundreds of tunes, it would help a lot to
have it.
When someone asked me why I used sheet music, my response was, "if it's
good enough for the Boston Symphony Orchestra, it's good enough for me."
That, of course, didn't preclude the fact that I could play literally
hundreds of pieces without the music in front of me. Learning some
pieces will be of great help whenever you're performing and someone
wants to converse with you while you are playing.
It took me a while to learn that trick but it's something that many
people never seem to think of when they want to engage you in
conversation while you're in the middle of whatever you're playing.
Hal
Ventura
>
> FWIW - When I used to perform professionally, I always had music with
> me. With a repertoire of many hundreds of tunes,
> it would help a lot to have it.............
>
> That, of course, didn't preclude the fact that I could play literally
> hundreds of pieces without the music in front of me.
Yes... and the sheet music was there for you more as a mere reminder
than as a crutch (which it unfortunately is for a lot of folks)
so you'd open it, glance at it, and refer to it occasionally
as you played, but you weren't glued to the sheet... right?
I too used to take music, but gradually reduced that to
just chord progressions written out on cards, then reduced further
to database "cheat sheets" based on a very old Musicians book system...
the title, the key, the first note, the first chord, the first line
> Learning some
> pieces will be of great help whenever you're performing and someone
> wants to converse with you while you are playing.
>
> It took me a while to learn that trick but it's something that many
> people never seem to think of when they want to engage you in
> conversation while you're in the middle of whatever you're playing.
>
and it knocks out other people in the room who observe you
conversing with that excited lady while never missing a note.
Ciao Ventura
Davie Morrison
>gary.blair wrote:
>>
> for many it never enters their head that they could learn
>> > some pieces properly so that they can play without having to have the
>> > music in front of them.
>
>me. With a repertoire of many hundreds of tunes, it would help a lot to
>
> When someone asked me why I used sheet music, my response was, "if it's
>good enough for the Boston Symphony Orchestra, it's good enough for me."
>
>pieces will be of great help whenever you're performing and someone
>wants to converse with you while you are playing.
>
> It took me a while to learn that trick but it's something that many
>people never seem to think of when they want to engage you in
>conversation while you're in the middle of whatever you're playing.
>
Hal
Yep, happens all the time - my response is "I'm sorry but I'm using both of
my brains at the moment...."
We were playing at a university function a couple of years ago and a guy
came up and asked the guitar player (during a set) " Have you got a light?
...."
I won't tell you all of what was said to him but there were two words and
the second word was "off".
Davie
Glasgow
Gert-Jan Kamphorst
[.......]
| You also affirm my deep belief that ANYONE can learn
| to play from memory. It is NOT a talent... it is simply a state of
| confidence and a state of mind... and I believe to be truly free
| to express your emotions when you perform, this is an
| absolute neccessity.
I meet a lot of people playing only form sheets with tablature for the DBB. They say they can't read staff music (i don't too, well,
that is to say: too slow for my playing) AND that they cannot play from memory. I have two basic methods.
1. we start to play together. Then I stand up and walk aroud looking at the other person and then the other is occasionally looking
at me. After a few measures I knock over the music standard and we play on !!!. they seldom stop.
2. I take an old children song everyone knows by heart and i play it on and on till the other one starts playing along. Then i tell
them that they have played from memory.
There is a third method too I use:
We take method 2 and I deleberately play occasionally some wrong buttons as is not a big problem with DBB's. The other person tells
me that I made a few mistakes. I ask then if it sounded bad and teh answer is in the negavtive. So i learn them to believe that a
wrong button is no wrong button but merely another sound or a variation on the basic tune. This I use to help them overcome their
problems with not being accurately playing the tune.
for the record: I am not a teacher of the DBB myself but what I have learned the last three years I try to share with as much
DBB-players as possible.
Yes Phil, only when playing from memory your emotions can freely flow into the music you play.
Gert-Jan
(Amsterdam)
Tom Sullivan
FWIW - When I used to perform ,<professionally, I always had music with
<me. With a repertoire of many hundreds <of tunes, it would help a lot to
<have it.
< When someone asked me why I used <sheet music, my response was, "if it's
<good enough for the Boston Symphony <Orchestra, it's good enough for me."
Hal,
I'll consider that line to be an early Christmas present. ;-) I've never been
inclined to play or sing in public without music on hand... and never will.
BTW We have a new jazz band in town comprised of some of the best old hand
jazz players in town - guess what... everyone of them (well maybe not the
drummer) brings a music stand.
have a g'day
Tom Sullivan
David Batty
<gary....@ntlworld.com> writes
>I couldn't agree more with your statement regarding the use of music in a
>comcert setting.
>I know Virtuoso players that can hardly play with out it.
>However, I don't understand your statement regarding teachers keeping the
>instrument
>back through teaching a ''standard'' fingering in the Bass ???
>Could you elaborate please
>Regards
>Gary Blair (scotland)
Hi Gary, I have known pupils who after years of playing have been forced
by their teachers to change their fingering on the left hand from 2/3 to
3/4 and it has made a mess of their playing and set them back a few
years. I can do bass runs, fancy left hand stuff, composite chords and
play tunes like Marcosignori's Air On A G String with my 'wrong' fingers
and often I can play better left hand than most people of my standard or
slightly above, I would not expect to be able to play left hand as good
as someone like yourself who is a professional but you won't have to
wait too many years before I am there, why should I change my fingering,
what is important is the sound the person hears - not which finger
played that sound, if I was most comfortable playing diminished chords
with my left big toe then that would be the best and correct fingering
for me, I cannot see why teachers want to insist that all the millions
of different shaped, sized and proportioned people have to play with the
fingering that suits the teacher. A few teacher types have tried to
change me and told me it's for the best but I can give them a run for
their money on the left hand despite only playing properly since 97.
One chap told me that I would never get anywhere with my fingering, I
thought these people were supposed to inspire learners!, I find it easy
to insert bass runs, shift the tune to the left hand if necessary and
lots more. I have ignored him and continued to have fun with my playing
while constantly improving my technique but not at the expense of not
entertaining my audience.
I am getting posh now, I am studying music, but only in private. I
don't take sheet music to the club, it is for learning at home, I have
only learned the piece when I don't need the sheet music to play it
anymore.
Ventura
> I'll consider that line to be an early Christmas present. ;-)
> I've never been
> inclined to play or sing in public without music on hand...
> and never will.
well, if you are saying you PREFER to have music on the stand
when you perform then hey... that's just part of you being
comfortable and it's just a tool (among many) that you use.
what makes me sad is when someone good says they CAN'T play without
a sheet in front of them. They are just scared and don't
really believe in their own power yet.
that's the difference
Sully, You've played "Take 5" what... a few thousand times over the
years?
so obviously you know it backwards - forwards - inside - out
If you still open the sheet when you play it, then I'm saying
it's because you simply want to and not because you actually need to.
Ciao Ventura
Jo
--- In squee...@egroups.com, usenet@d... wrote:
> Really-Reply-To: "Gert-Jan Kamphorst" <gert-jan.kamphorst@t...>
> Really-From: "Gert-Jan Kamphorst" <gert-jan.kamphorst@t...>
>
> | You also affirm my deep belief that ANYONE can learn
> | to play from memory. It is NOT a talent... it is simply a state
of
> | confidence and a state of mind... and I believe to be truly free
> | to express your emotions when you perform, this is an
> | absolute neccessity.
>
I beg to differ with your statement that you cannot express emotions
when performing with sheet music. I have heard and participated in
many a choir performance where we sang from music (extremely common
even with professional choir performances) AND expressed the emotions
the music prescribed.
Also, everyone has their own way of truly getting into the depth of
the music, for some that means trashing the dots as soon as possible,
or even not using the at all, for others it means playing with the
dots so that no energy needs to go into remembering the song, and all
effort can go into the flow of emotions.
So you see...it all depends what works for you, so I don't think you
can make general statements like that.
Vriendelijke Groeten,
Jo.
USA
bme...@my-deja.com
>music with me. With a repertoire of many hundreds of tunes, it
>would help a lot to have it. When someone asked me why I used
>sheet music, my response was, "if it's good enough for the
>Boston Symphony Orchestra, it's good enough for me."
>Tom wrote:
> I'll consider that line to be an early Christmas present. ;-) I've
>never been inclined to play or sing in public without music on
>hand... and never will. BTW We have a new jazz band in town
>comprised of some of the best old hand jazz players in town -
>guess what... everyone of them (well maybe not the
> drummer) brings a music stand.
> have a g'day
Thank You, Hal and Tom, for your views on the use of sheet music
while performing. Hearing this from professional players is a huge
boost to someone like myself, who is very much an amateur and
my only "performances" take place at accordion club meetings.
I always bring my music and set it on the stand whether I rely on it
or not. There seems to be a stigma of sorts, at least at the club
level, where only the "better" players play without sheet music. I
have seen many competent players start to perform without sheet
music, are going along nicely, and then have a moment of brain
fade (maybe someone in the audience knocked over a chair), but
the music stops........sometimes a recovery is possible,
sometimes a restart, some embarrassment is likely, but the end
result is usually negative. Sure, nobody really cares in the
audience, we still applaud, we're still pulling for the player to
succeed, there are the knowing looks of "we've all been there". Yet
the same players will attempt the same things month after month
because, I presume, of this sheet music stigma.
So to have reinforcement opinions from a couple of professionals
is a welcome breath of fresh air. It's tough enough for lesser
players to play in front of people without having to worry if the
audience will think less of you because you've brought your
music........ Thanks!
Bruce
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Tom Sullivan
the
years?
so obviously you know it backwards - forwards - inside - out
If you still open the sheet when you play it, then I'm saying
it's because you simply want to and not because you actually need to>>
It has only been a hundred times ;-)
You point is well taken. Fine line between need and want. I can comp without
muisc a some tune our Irish band does, but quite
candidly, I can't think of a single piece that I could do solo without music
on hand
- even if it is only for a glance.
Every body is differnt. I can tell you tons about my clients children from
memory - but I couldn't tell you their names to save my soul, let alone recite
the periodic table or any other detail memorization dependent activity.
Also a fine line berween "can't" and won't. Obviously memorization is being
used all the time or my performing would be no different than my sight reading
of any partiular number. :-(
Everyone CAN sing but some folks recognize (thankfully) that their energy is
best used elsewhere.
Call it nervousness or whatever, but for me, playing by ear OR completly from
memory is not my strength -if I could wave a magic wand over my brain fine but
I can't - and I would rather put my energy elsewhere.
Have a g'day
Tom
Ventura
> .......There seems to be a stigma of sorts, at least at the club
> level, where only the "better" players play without sheet music.
Being comfortable when you play is what's important.
I am referring only to what's inside the players head when
I oblect... in other words, is the sheet a tool or a crutch?
> So to have reinforcement opinions from a couple of professionals
> is a welcome breath of fresh air. It's tough enough for lesser
> players to play in front of people without having to worry if the
> audience will think less of you because you've brought your
> music........ Thanks!
well, the audience should not think less of you for using
any tool of your trade, but it certainly may think MORE
of you if you appear to be a wizard as well as a musician.
Ciao Ventura
Ventura
>
> but quite candidly, I can't think of a single piece that
I could do solo without music on hand
> - even if it is only for a glance.
>
If you make a list of your top 25 songs that you really only
need a glance for, you can reduce this entire group to a
single page of one line entries like this:
TITLE KEY INTRO ISTNT ISTCRD
_Arrivadierci Roma Bb- aaaa a/F7 -ca/F7 -g/Cm - D Bb
_Mala Femmena Bb- ------------------------ Bb Bb
_Non Dimenticar Bb- fgfgfgfgf/F7------------ Bb Bb
_O' Marenariello (Eb or F) Eb- G Bb G------------------ Bb Eb
_Ritorna a' me F-- c C, C/C7--------------- A F
_Sorrento C-- /Cm--------------------- C Cc
_Three Coins in the Fountain Eb- /Eb - C Bb Ab G/Eb------ C Eb
All of Me...................... Eb- ------------------------ Eb Eb
Always......................... F-- /C7--------------------- C F
Anniversary Song (Ohowwedanced) D-- ------------------------ D D7
I've used the Notebook (DOS) database program and had these types of
lists
available on a laptop computer since my Toshiba 1000 days
4 mhz cpu, (no harddrive) one floppy, dos 2 on a chip, LCD screen, 4
nicads.
Ciao Ventura