Bass layout on Irish button accordions
Terry Knight
Dear group,
Does anyone know STANDARD bass button arrangements on the following
types of Irish button accordions(?):
D/D# Paolo Soprani (older) with 8 bass buttons
B/C# (any modern brand) with 16 bass buttons
C#/D/D# (any brand) with 8, 12, or 16 bass buttons
If you have data, would you kindly format it as follows:
outer row (near left hand)
top bottom
inner row (near bellows)
example: d/a D/A g/d G/D c/g C/G f/c F/C
?/? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/?
Thanks a lot. \TK
Han Speek
[Posted and mailed]
In article <6jqb1n$4...@d-and-d.com>,
Hi Terry,
This is a tricky question - it might even be one without a proper answer !
All D/D# Paolos that I know of (and this was confirmed some time ago by
Billy McComiskey on the IRTRAD-L mailing list) came with the basses set up
for playing with the D (outside) row as your main row.
So in your notation that would be:
d/a D/A eb/bb Eb/Bb
f#/bm F#/Bm a/g A/G
Of course, given the trend in some parts of Ireland to play in Eb (so a half
step sharp from what is usual), most D/D# boxes that you will come across
will have had the basses reworked to match playing from the inside row:
bb/f Bb/F eb/bb Eb/Bb
g/cm G/Cm eb/ab Eb/Ab
So you can play them as if they were C#/D, but everything comes out a half
step sharp.
The other 2 instruments you ask about are (as far as I know) not production
models, and would only (if ever) have been made custom-order, so by definition
also with a customized bass layout.
I've never seen a B/C with 16 basses, though 12 is now becoming quite common.
I'm not even sure it would make sense to have so many buttons on the left hand.
It's pretty heavy, and I doubt you would need so many chords.
B/C/C# was a production model, either as the Trichord model by Hohner, which
has 12 bass buttons which work like those on a 12-bass student accordion.
And the Italian version (like John Kirkpatrick uses) has a 48 Stradella-bass
left-hand side. If a C#/D/D# was ever made, I assume it would follow either
of these examples.
Hope this helps,
Han.
--
H. Speek, B.Sc. E-mail: h...@ice.el.utwente.nl,
Univ. of Twente, Dept. EL, ICE group H.S...@el.utwente.nl
The Netherlands WWW: http://www.ice.el.utwente.nl/~han/
JHB NIJHOF
>
> Does anyone know STANDARD bass button arrangements on the following
> types of Irish button accordions(?):
>
> D/D# Paolo Soprani (older) with 8 bass buttons
>
> B/C# (any modern brand) with 16 bass buttons
>
> C#/D/D# (any brand) with 8, 12, or 16 bass buttons
Did you have a look at Han Speek's
http://www.ice.el.utwente.nl/~han/ir_box/basses.html ?
He has got the layout (a layout?) for the Paolo Soprani D/D#
(and a few more..).
--
Jeroen Nijhof J.H.B....@aston.ac.uk
Accordion Links http://www-th.phys.rug.nl/~nijhojhb/accordions.html
korbopi...@mail.pied-crow.com
Dear group,
[My original message had a typographical error. I meant B/C (instead
of B/C#).]
Thank you for the very helpful input and reminders, Han Speek and
Jeroen Nijhof.
I was wondering about the D/D# Paolo because I noticed a used one for
sale on one of the accordion store web sites. From what Han wrote to
me, it seems it would be difficult to predict whether the bass is
likely to arranged to favor playing focused on the outside (D) row or
the inside (D#=Eb) row. For my part, I would be interested in having
the freedom to play maximum bass, regardless of which row I would be
focused on.
I am currently spending all of my "extra" free time exploring and
experimenting on the 2-row Irish accordion. In an effort to find the
most efficient finger patterns on about twenty tunes, I began playing
them in different keys, and searched until I found what seemed to be
the natural home. The result of this exploration has been a huge
revelation for me, because, it has dispelled a myth.
When I first became interested in Irish music, I let myself believe
that everything had to be played in D, G, or A (and sometimes E) or
it would be out of character for the tradition. However, as I began
listening critically to artists and albums (Joe Derrane, John
Brosnan, Sharon Shannon, Joe Burke, Dolores Keane and John Faulkner,
...) I noticed that the tunes are in about every key you could
imagine (Bb, F#, and Eb, to name a few). I also noticed that many of
these odd-keyed recordings had fairly sophisticated parts for fiddle,
flute, whistle, and mandolin! (Have you ever tried to play a tune in
Bb on an Irish penny whistle or flute? Now there is a challenge for
you!)
Based on these observations, I have given myself permission to play
in whichever key seems the strongest for the tune being played.
The other big thought which came to me concerning the Irish accordion
is this: If I am playing with other musicians, it will be less
important, and perhaps even undesirable, for me to play bass-side
accompaniment. However, if I am playing solo, many tunes sound bare
unless there is good bass coloring and rhythm. This conclusion has
caused me to start looking for 2- and 3-row boxes with versatile bass
layouts.
My current thinking is that with 12 or 16 buttons carefully chosen
and arranged on the bass, one could enjoy tremendous versatility.
Even though 16 bass buttons could bring the weight up a bit, it would
just be "a bit", and for my part, it would be worth the extra weight.
Anyway, these Irish boxes have stolen my heart.
Thanks \TK
JHB NIJHOF
> imagine (Bb, F#, and Eb, to name a few). I also noticed that many of
> these odd-keyed recordings had fairly sophisticated parts for fiddle,
> flute, whistle, and mandolin! (Have you ever tried to play a tune in
> Bb on an Irish penny whistle or flute? Now there is a challenge for
> you!)
Not if the pennywhistle is a B flat one! Generation makes them
in B flat, C, D, E flat, F, and G, and they are cheap enough
to buy the lot.
Han Speek
In article <6jsu4i$r...@d-and-d.com>,
korbopi...@mail.pied-crow.com writes:
>
> I was wondering about the D/D# Paolo because I noticed a used one for
> sale on one of the accordion store web sites. From what Han wrote to
> me, it seems it would be difficult to predict whether the bass is
> likely to arranged to favor playing focused on the outside (D) row or
> the inside (D#=Eb) row. For my part, I would be interested in having
> the freedom to play maximum bass, regardless of which row I would be
> focused on.
lot of buttons (and reeds) on the left-hand side. So the box would be
impractically heavy, and not at all suitable for the (typically pretty fast)
Irish traditional repertoire.
On most Irish boxes, the left-hand side is a compromise. It typically has
the chords you're most likely to use - but not much more.
>
> When I first became interested in Irish music, I let myself believe
> that everything had to be played in D, G, or A (and sometimes E) or
> it would be out of character for the tradition. However, as I began
> listening critically to artists and albums (Joe Derrane, John
> Brosnan, Sharon Shannon, Joe Burke, Dolores Keane and John Faulkner,
> ...) I noticed that the tunes are in about every key you could
> imagine (Bb, F#, and Eb, to name a few). I also noticed that many of
> these odd-keyed recordings had fairly sophisticated parts for fiddle,
> flute, whistle, and mandolin! (Have you ever tried to play a tune in
> Bb on an Irish penny whistle or flute? Now there is a challenge for
> you!)
Not a real challenge, if you know this mostly involves the use of instruments
in less standard keys ! Bb and Eb are of course what you get when you play
a D/D# box as if it were a C#/D, and play tunes in A or D (G would give Ab).
Playing G fingering on a C/C# box (Sharon Shannon used one of these when she
played with the Waterboys, and also on some tracks of her first album) gives
you the F#. Boxes can be ordered in all kinds of funny keys: Jackie Daly has
a "tenor box" in F#/G which he uses on some tracks of his album "Many's a Wild
Night", and Sharon Shannon has (or still has on order) a Cairdin box in E/F.
But even on a standard Irish box, you can play in any key as long as you ignore
the basses. The right hand side has all the notes, it is fully chromatic.
If you listen to Joe Derrane, you'll hear him modulate all over the place, not
just D, G and A.
On the whistle it's even simpler, as you can get whistles in any key ranging
from low C (almost impossible to play due to the spacing between the holes)
over low D and middle D (which is the standard type) up to high G (which is
really tiny !). Even flutes (try a Matt Molloy album) come in Eb or Bb.
>
> Based on these observations, I have given myself permission to play
> in whichever key seems the strongest for the tune being played.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as you play on your own. But if you play with
others, in a band or in sessions, you'll find out that for most tunes there
is a "proper" key. So there may be situations where you won't have much choice.
>
> The other big thought which came to me concerning the Irish accordion
> is this: If I am playing with other musicians, it will be less
> important, and perhaps even undesirable, for me to play bass-side
> accompaniment. However, if I am playing solo, many tunes sound bare
> unless there is good bass coloring and rhythm. This conclusion has
> caused me to start looking for 2- and 3-row boxes with versatile bass
> layouts.
Good point. Listen to Jackie Daly's last album, "Many's A Wild Night", or
to Conor Keane's brand-new solo album (some Gaelic name, I don't have it here
so I can't type it in for you). All the left-hand work you might wish for,
on only 12 bass buttons (but chords without thirds).
And having a 3rd row on your box doesn't really make sense as the 2 rows
already give you all the notes. Only thing to gain might be more convenient
fingering, but at the cost of adding a fair bit of weight to the instrument.
3-rows are not at all common in Ireland (though the 2 1/2 row model Mairtin
O'Connor has introduced is catching on - and that half row does provide
alternate fingerings for some frequently used notes).