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Before you buy.
--
G. I. Milligan
http://accordiondoc.home.mindspring.com
<seer...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8d5v6j$up2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
I am getting a lot of questions privately about brands, and will quit answering
those. You need to learn to play your accordion well, and will then be able to
tell a good accordion from a common accordion. Every accordion is a little
different, and every player likes one kind vs. another kind. Once you are a
virtuoso, you should be able to afford the best! >>
Excellent point! It seems everyone wants the pro instrument even if they're a
beginner.
Rarely do I hear of someone with a driver's permit buying a Rolls Royce first.
They will never truly appreciate the quality.
Just not prudent thinking, but based on other's opinions.
Steve Navoyosky
Or get a really well paying job, or win the lottery :)
>
>
> Excellent point! It seems everyone wants the pro instrument even if they're a
> beginner.
I think this applies to any large purchase, be it accordions, cars or furniture:
buy the best thing you can afford.
Sister eX
Sister eX
>>
But that wasn't the point. Your statement is sound when it comes to cars and
furniture as those items were commonplace and necessities as you grew and used
them. But a later-in-life commodity like an accordion should be approached
carefully in the beginning to determine if progress will be made, and if so,
the advancement of quality in degrees will allow one to appreciate and seek the
finest quality commensurate with one's skills.
I've experienced young and old students coming in with new top grade
accordions, only to find that they were not really interested, and/or they
viewed the instrument as "commonplace" [one is as good as another]. Their
investment dwindled.
I'm looking at this as a long time teacher and retailer and I found it to be
very true. I blame the retailer and/or teacher of the person for encouraging
the high sale for monetary gain, rather than assisting with concern.
Steve Navoyosky
Congratulations on your purchase of an accordion. I will apologize for
the rude comments by Ike and Steve. I don't think they read your email
carefully. It seems to me that you need straps and to know if the
instrument is adequate to learn on. There can be a number of things
that you should look for in an instrument. Is it in tune, are the
bellows tight, etc., etc. Then if all things are right about the
instrument, you can proceed to learn. However since you don't know much
about accordions, you will have to get some help. This is somewhat
dependent on where you live and if you can take the accordion to a
knowledgeable person for an opinion. I would recommend that you do this
if possible. You might let us know where you live and maybe we can
steer you to the person you need.
I stand at 180 degrees opposite of these two guys when it comes to
learning on an instrument. I also have many pretty successful years of
experience in teaching of playing and making of instruments. There is a
school of thought that goes back 100's of years that one can never have
too good an instrument to learn on. The idea that people learn to care
for an instrument and then you get them a good one is not in my book.
Some people take good care of things and some don't and it does not have
a lot to do with if they are virtuosos or not. It has to do with their
personal habits and there are virtuosos who are slobs and amateurs that
are fastidious. I'd rather see a plethora of fine instruments out there
than so many cheap junky ones as there are.
A fine instrument with tight quick sounding reeds, tight bellows, good
action and tone will help any student a lot more than any old thing off
Ebay or what ever.
Fine instruments do get sold on Ebay, but a beginner can spend a lot of
money before they get one. Luck will play a big part in this. But the
beginner is better off to go to a reputable dealer to find a good
instrument, even if they have to pay more. My own value system is such
that I will drive an old car and invest thousands in a beautiful
instrument rather than the other way around. I get a lot more happiness
out of the instrument. Fine instruments are usually a good investment
for many reasons, the first and most important is the satisfaction that
you get playing them, whether you are a beginner or not. I believe one
should always get the finest you can afford. I sold a lot of Ramirez
guitars to beginners and everyone who bought one from me years ago had
the pleasure of owning one of the finest and they all were in a position
to make money if they ever sold the instrument.
There are so many used accordions around from the 60's and 70's that you
should never buy one unless it is in excellent condition. Fixer uppers
should be spurned as they usually take more time and effort to bring
them up to snuff than they are worth. Leave these for the
dealer/repairers if they want them. Stay away from mustiness as you
will smell the dreadful odor every time you play it and it usually means
internal problems anyway.
I'm saying all this least newbies get put off by put downs. I am a
pilot and I remember years ago visiting a retiring American Airline
pilot. My wife asked the man something about how airplanes fly and the
man gave her a very careful well thought out explanation. Not for a
minute did he seem impatient about her question or roll his eyes (like I
imagine some of this news group "oracles" do). When I flew with him he
was a wonderfully smooth pilot and I wish that I could get a dose of his
smoothness and love of what he did for some of the abrasive
personalities that hang out on this news group. He had a lot of class,
some of these guys have none. Believe me I've seen plenty of nerds
around airports too. It's disgusting.
Good luck with your new instrument, if the instrument is good, then all
it takes is practice and a good teacher if you can find one.
Regards,
William
In article <38FA2B19...@ashland.baysat.net>,
Now if someone could tell me something about LaScala. It must
either be too awful to talk about or just not very well known. It's
okay, I can take it...
> Thanks,
> Ron
Hi Ron,
In answer to your question, check out Wendy Morrisons's book.
http://www.hmtrad.com/wendy/sbx-list.html
If you don't see your accordion on Wendy's page, chances are, it
was either an obscure brand unto itself, or a student/beginner
model from a "known builder" which had been renamed and sold
through discount channels either here or abroad.
It's dollar value will be commensurate with the amount of
enjoyment you receive from it.
Have Fun,
Bruce
Now if someone could tell me something about LaScala. It must
either be too awful to talk about or just not very well known. It's
okay, I can take it...
> Thanks,
> Ron
Hi Ron,
In answer to your question, check out Wendy Morrisons's book.
http://www.hmtrad.com/wendy/sbx-list.html
If you don't see your accordion on Wendy's page, chances are, it
was either an obscure brand unto itself, or a student/beginner
model from a "known builder" which had been renamed and sold
through discount channels either here or abroad.
It's dollar value will be commensurate with the amount of
enjoyment you receive from it.
Have Fun,
Bruce
> Congratulations on your purchase of an accordion. I will apologize for
> the rude comments by Ike and Steve. ... It seems to me that you need
> straps and to know if the instrument is adequate to learn on. There can be
> a number of things
> that you should look for in an instrument. Is it in tune, are the
> bellows tight, etc., etc. Then if all things are right about the
> instrument, you can proceed to learn. However since you don't know much
> about accordions, you will have to get some help. ...You might let us know
> where you live and maybe we can steer you to the person you need. ...I
> stand at 180 degrees opposite of these two guys when it comes to learning
> on an instrument. I also have many pretty successful years of experience
> in teaching of playing and making of instruments. ... Fine instruments do
> get sold on Ebay, but a beginner can spend a lot of
> money before they get one. ... My own value system is such that I will
> drive an old car and invest thousands in a beautiful instrument rather than
> the other way around. I get a lot more happiness out of the instrument.
> Fine instruments are usually a good investment for many reasons, the first
> and most important is the satisfaction that
> you get playing them, whether you are a beginner or not. I believe one
> should always get the finest you can afford. ... There are so many used
> accordions around from the 60's and 70's that you should never buy one
> unless it is in excellent condition. Fixer uppers should be spurned as
> they usually take more time and effort to bring them up to snuff than they
> are worth. ... I'm saying all this least newbies get put off by put
> downs. ... Not for a minute did he seem impatient about her question or
> roll his eyes (like I imagine some of this news group "oracles" do). ...He
> had a lot of class,
> some of these guys have none. ... It's disgusting...
Hello all,
For quite awhile now, I have been reading various well-delivered and
superficially effective responses from Will to other members of the NG
(especially newbies) and I think this one finally pushed me over the edge of
tolerance.
Will, you come on to the group as if you are an expert at things accordion -
giving advice as though it was coming from a wise old accordion sage. Don't
you think it's time you came clean with the group?
I cannot let this charade continue without comment. Will pretends to be an
accordion repair technician and now intimates to the group, in the above
post, that he is an accordion builder. If you read his posts carefully, he
has never actually said he is a repairer and builder of accordions, but he
does imply this by his very carefull constructed wording.
In fact, Will is a luthier, or professes to be. I've never actually seen any
of his instruments.
Will does not play the accordion. His daughters and wife are rank beginners.
What he knows about playing accordion family instruments, he has learned by
listening to his family members learn at the book 1 level (maybe book 2 level
now). I don't believe he has indeed ever had a lesson from an accordion
teacher.
What he knows about the construction and repair of the accordion, he has
learned by reading posts on this NG.
And now, he professes to have an informed opinion about what to buy, about
the instrument's construction, value and state of repair, of the
responsiveness of the reeds and from whom one should seek out to have repairs
performed. Without playing any accordion family instrument, one does not
have any basis on which to judge the responsiveness of a reed or keyboard.
Indeed, playing at book one level, one has not learned any of the subtlties
of this instrument. It takes experience and years to gain this type of
knowledge and to belittle those of us who have played for a lifetime by this
type of a sham is intolerable.
Will, with all due respect, stop this game. Don't pretend anymore and please
don't give opinions about things for which you have no practical expertise.
Lynda Griffith,
Certified Accordion Family Instrument Repair Technician
Minnesota
Orest
PS this is kind of like a new topic, I say we schedule it in for the last
half of April every year. Is that spot still open on our calendar of
rants?
On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:09:19 -0500 gat...@d-and-d.com writes:
>Really-Reply-To: srbarete <srba...@northernnet.com>
>Really-From: srbarete <srba...@northernnet.com>
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But having more or less agreed with Orest, Lynda, please know that I
appreciate your contributions to the group!
Dennis S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Orest T Lechnowsky <or...@juno.com
>Now wait a minute here....what is the problem? I fail to see it. Is
> anything that Will said "wrong"? If so, what is it, exactly, that is
> incorrect? It seems to me that all the advice he has offered is general
> in nature and follows mostly from common sense....nothing wrong with
> that, and a person doesn't need to be an accordion expert to offer
> general advice and opinions.
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Orest T Lechnowsky wrote:
Now wait a minute here....what is the problem?
Hello Orest, Dennis and all,
Thank you for your replies. I'm not out to argue with anyone about this. I have
prior and personal knowledge of Will's behavior and expertise. In my opinion he was
leading the group to think that he is something I know he is not. I wanted to point
this out before someone trusted in his knowledge and abilities.
What someone doesn't say is often just as important as what the person does say.
Will has alluded to his expertise and knowledge of the accordion family of
instruments and given advice in the past as if he really does have years of
experience behind him. He does not. I have read him quoted by other NG members as
an expert.
Will wrote, "...I also have many pretty successful years of experience in teaching
of playing and making of instruments..." What he did not say, conveniently, is that
he does not teach accordion, he does not play accordion and he does not make
accordions, yet he implies this by his choice of words. What he (supposedly)
**does** make is lute's. We are afterall, a squeezebox NG, not a lute NG. Readers
of this NG assume that we are all writing about squeezeboxes, not lutes. He then
goes on to offer advice about "fine" accordions. Someone who does not play
accordions and someone who does not have any knowledge of accordions should not be
offering opinions to anyone about what a "fine" accordion is.
Chromatic accordions have been ranked in the following categories:
Beginner:
reduced pitches in treble and bass sections
1 or 2 reed-banks in treble
no shifts
low quality reeds (machine made)
minimum bellows folds (about 3/4" deep)
rough construction, few details
Advanced:
may be full-sized instrument
2 or 3 treble reed banks, or maybe 3 or 4 bass reed banks
few shifts
low-medium quality reeds (uneven responses)
limited dynamic range
minimum bellows folds (about 3/4" deep)
rough construction, few details
slow action, noisy machine
Professional:
usually full-size
4/5 reed banks
12+7 shifts
medium to fine reeds (hand-finished)
larger rivet-heads
wider dynamic range
more bellows folds (about 1" deep)
detailed reinforced construction
medium to fast action, reduced machine noise
all pitches respond at about 30 mm/Ws
Fine:
usually full-size
4/5 or 5/5 to 5/8 reed banks
near-maximum shifts
convertor or free bass
wide dynamic range
all pitches respond at about 20mm/Ws
full-size rivet heads, hand-set
maximum bellows folds (about 1" deep)
detailed, reinforced construction
super-fast action, much reduced reduced machine noise
more perfect and unique reed-plate and tongue sizes per pitch
overtones are clear and pleasing
super low basses
predictable/reliable and even partial-depression of key control
World Class:
incrementally more and better than fine
all pitches respond at about 10mm/Ws
These categories are based on very definite criteria, as you can see above. Someone
who cannot play accordionat even a book one level will not have the touch required
to appreciate the subtlties of a "fine" accordion. Will would not even know what a
fine accordion is, by definition, but for the list of criteria provided above.
> As far as Will masquerading as an accordion builder/repair tech, we read
> what we want to in his comments, don't we? Has he ever lied about what
> he does? If we read between the lines of his comments, and do so
> incorrectly, who's fault is that?
It's his fault when he deliberately leads you in that direction. We are talking
about integrity and honesty. There is potential harm that comes from advice
distributed by the uninformed, as if it were expert advice. I would think that the
members of this group are choosey about finding a repair technician for their
instruments. If someone purports to be an expert and does harm by poor advice, then
that is a problem. Will didn't say anything wrong, but he did lead the group to
think that he is something he is not - this is what I take issue with. It's
possible that someone in the group has not read my warning post and now has set in
his/her mind that Will is an expert - a teacher and builder and may believe most
anything Will writes in the future, either publically on the NG or in private
emails. This is a problem.
That I know better and do not expose the ruse, would be a disservice to the NG.
> Lynda said "...to belittle those of us who have played for a lifetime
> by this type of a sham is intolerable." Who is being belittled?
When someone without even basic rudimentary skills and knowledge purports to be an
expert in the face of people who have spent a lifetime studying the accordion,
developing and honing their skills - this cheapens the real expert's craft and
skill.
When amateurs share ideas and techniques with full disclosure that they are
amateurs, then I have no quarrel.
There is a definite difference of style and intent in these two situations.
Best regards,
>PS this is kind of like a new topic, I say we schedule it in for the last
>half of April every year. Is that spot still open on our calendar of
>rants?
I think we can *squeeze* it in somewhere...
--
This space for rent.
--- In squee...@egroups.com, Orest T Lechnowsky
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:09:19 -0500 gateway@d... writes:
> >Really-Reply-To: srbarete <srbarete@n...>
> >Really-From: srbarete <srbarete@n...>
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A nice point Lugene.
On the same vein.
I had a really nice conversation with Dr. Djorge Gajic at
this weekends UK Accordion championships.
I was showing him the list of adjudicators in the programme, and
mentioned that I felt embarrased at being listed between one
gentleman that had the letters LTCL(perf),LTCL(GMT) LTCL(CMT) A.Mus. TCL
and another with BSC(hons) FLCM,amus TCL,LBCA(TD)ABCA(TD)LBCA.
When mine was plain old ''Gary Blair''.
He said that he felt that the letters were irrelevant and pointed out that
the principle violin teacher and the priciple piano teacher at the Royal
Academy
of music only use their names.
I did feel better after this and then pointed out that I did actually have
letters after
my name.......PIA...........Pain in the Ass! ;-)
BTW Djorde is one of only two Piano Accordionists I know that can actually
hold his
own against the Chromatic players.
A really nice guy to boot.
I asked him why he moved to Glasgow from London to which he replied that it
was
Madonna's fault. It turns out that his Glaswegian wife taught at the
Mennuin school in
london and was teaching Madonna to play Violin for and a new film. Madonna
then
contacted her from LA and asked her to go over and give her some more
tuition.
On arriving in Glasgow on route to LA she received a phone call from
Madonna telling
her that she has walked off the set of the film and is no longer involved.
( she had a fall out
with Wes Craven). So they decided just to stay in Glasgow and not bother
going
back down to London.
Funny old world.
Regards
Gary Blair P.I.A. (Scotland) ;-)
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On the other thread...although I did not respond to you personally, Lynda, I
just wanted to say that your thoughts concerning the squeeze and ideas ARE
top notch and I do highly respect them and are greatful that you take the
time to educate those who ask.
However as a reminder to all in the newsgroup...
(1) personal business needs to be dealt with personally and privately. No
need for public humiliation here.
(2) We all come from different backgrounds and places in life to this one
particular spot on the universe all with the same purpose. It doesnot matter
wether we be bus drivers, computer heads, masters of the squeeze,
carpenters, music teachers,newbie learners, full time pros and jammers,
waitresses, squeezebuilders., tinkerers...as long as what we have to say is
reasonable and true, then our backgrounds can remain annonymous if we chose.
If someone makes a statement you do not agree with, then make the opposing
one and expand it with your knowledge and tell why. We are all very
intelligent people here...and can make up our own minds as to what makes
good sense.
(3) If someone makes a statement...for example...not preferring a particular
teaching method...then please recognize that as an opinion and please offer
YOUR opinion so those of us with intelligent minds can see both sides. They
are just opinions...some opinions are more popular than others...but
opinions nontheless. BTW: I go thru this a LOT being a MACINTOSH lover!! :-)
(4) Keep family members who are not part of the newsgroup out of it.
Gee, can you tell I work with children...their safety being my first
priority?
I love you guys...
Steve...we'll miss you...
Lugene
The Bluegrass Accordin Girl
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