Beginner's thoughts on single-row melodeon for Irish music
Brent Santin
and I just wanted to throw out some random thoughts and start a
general discussion of the one-row melodeon.
After playing the Irish flute/whistle for twelve years, a bit of tenor
banjo and mandolin, as well and bodhran and bones, I got a real
curiosity about 'squeezebox, free-reed' type instruments in Irish
music.
The concertina is my favourite free-reed bellows instrument for Irish
music, but where I live (Eastern Ontario, Canada) concertinas are
pretty darned hard to find. The only concertina one is likely to
find, if at all, in a music shop in my area is one of those cheap
Chinese-manufactured or modern Italian ones with paper bellows,
accordion reeds and bad button action. I looked around on the
Internet and thought about ordering a high-end 'real' concertina from
the U.S. or England, but the prices were very high, especially
considering the currency exchange rate (I was looking at close to
$2000 for a decent instrument). Since I was only considering
free-reed instruments as a margin to my Irish flute playing, I wasn't
prepared to invest this much in it. A used instrument would have been
cheaper, but the chances of finding a good quality used concertina in
my part of Canada just by poking about in music stores are very slim,
indeed.
Since I live in Eastern Ontario (close to Quebec) there is still a bit
of a button accordion tradition here (although it's mostly for Ottawa
Valley and Quebecois style music). So I knew my chances of finding a
decent quality used button accordion were probably a lot better than
finding a concertina. I was correct, because I soon located a few
sources for decent quality used instruments, which were priced at $300
Canadian and under. In fact I met a French-speaking fellow near the
Thousand-Islands who has over 300 accordions in his collection!
The problem was, in Canada, there are a lot of button accordions, but
most boxes are C/G or something similar. B/C boxes or F/F# are almost
as rare as concertinas in this part of the world. Instruments in the
key of "D" are also a little harder to find. So, I ended up buying a
Cajun style melodeon in "C" and later on I also bought a Hohner
single-row box which had been restored and re-tuned to the key of "D".
The "C" box is a Hohner Ariette Cajun model (1990s). It is made in
China, although I didn't know that when I bought it. Despite some
general misgivings about Chinese made accordions, it does sound nice,
and has four stops, which give good control over tone. The build
quality is strong, but the bellows are a little stiff and the buttons
require a lot of finger pressure.
The old Hohner button-box which I had restored and retuned to "D"
(very dry), on the other hand, plays as light as a feather, is quick
and responsive and is a rather nice instrument. It also can be quite
loud! There is a very slight 'raspiness' to its sound when played
vigorously, which may or may not be a desirable trait to some people.
It doesn't have stops.
I suppose in retrospect I could have bought one double-row accordion
in D/C (if they exist), but instead I bought two separate instruments.
I actually picked the "C" single-row melodeon partly because of its
appearance (knowing little about melodeons at the time). Cajun style
accordions are very similar to 19th century German melodeons and since
I work at an historic 19th century village, I was hoping to play it
on-site eventually (where accuracy of appearance is important). The
Hohner "D" melodeon is from the 1930s and could not pass for a
mid-19th century instrument, but will come in useful for playing in
sessions and with bands, etc. due to the favoured key of "D" tuning.
Anyway, I've worked at learning it quite diligently every evening for
the past six months, and have half a dozen tunes under my belt (Wise
Maid, Tarbolten Reel, Mug of Brown Ale, some slow airs, etc.). As I
mentioned, I am not new to Irish music, having played the Irish flute
for twelve years. But I must say that to me, the melodeon certainly
has quite a steep learning curve compared to other instruments I have
tried. For instance, when I first picked up the mandolin / tenor
banjo a few years ago, the aforementioned tunes seemed to come rather
easily, and I was up to speed fairly quickly. The movements required
by the whistle / flute and mandolin / bando seemed fairly natural and
fluid. With the melodeon however, I find the tunes DO come, but much
less quickly. It's almost like I'm using a different part of my brain
when learning the melodeon....i.e. almost as if a requirement of
playing the melodeon is to have a bit of mathematic aptitude. I often
liken it to "learning how to type". The movements one must make seem
more mechanical and require greater hand-acrobatics to stretch up and
down the long, single row than did the whistle/Irish flute or the
banjo. Also, one has to wrap one's head around the logistics of the
instrument.....i.e. not only does one have to press the right keys at
the proper time, but the in-out of the bellows has to be
mastered....and finally, if you're not careful you just might find
yourself running out of air in the bellows. So I found the instrument
surprisingly demanding from a physical perspective.
Then there was also the interesting challenge of ornaments. Because
of my background with the whistle/flute, mandolin/banjo, I was used to
putting in lots of traditional rolls, cuts and double stops....but
because of the mechanics of the melodeon, ornaments have to be
approached in an entirely different way (one which recognises the
capabilities & limits of the instrument). I often find myself asking
"How am I going to give this tune a little more lift, rather than just
play the basic notes? Well, normally I'd put a roll here, but if I
try this quick bellow shuffle then maybe...."
Perhaps I have made the melodeon sound more difficult to learn than
has actually been my experience. I should clarify my stance by
stating that the single-row melodeon is not a terribly difficult
instrument, but I find it more difficult than instruments I have
previously learned to play.
I also find that with a single-row melodeon, there are certain tunes
that just "sound better" than others. I'm not talking about tunes
that change keys mid-way through. Those are going to be nearly
impossible to play on a diatonic instrument. I'm speaking of the way
that the rhythm required in operating the instrument has the effect
that certain tunes are more suited to it. For instance, it seems that
Irish polkas work very well on the single-row melodeon. The Irish
polka 2/4 beat seems to go hand-in-hand with the accents produced by
the movement of the bellows. Jigs, especially single-jigs in major
keys, also work well on the one-row melodeon. Fluid sounding reels
such as Sligo Maid, however, seem a little more difficult to play
properly.
I have done some research regarding one-row melodeons and have come to
learn that they used to be the 'traditionally' preferred type for
Irish music, but have been replaced in the last 40 years by
double-row, semi-tone apart, button accordions.
I have read how the different characteristics these two types of
accordions necessitate very different styles of ornamentation and
playing. From what I understand, the older, single-row instruments
required more bellows work. This resulted in a very marked, rhythmic
sound, which is well suited for dances. That, and the greater key
stretches required meant that the playing style was one of "steady,
clear notes and tunes", not overly complex, or embellished, and played
at slower speeds than is fashionable today. From what I also
understand, the one-row instrument and the playing style of one-row
melodeon players is now 'out of style' but has still has a core
following and has been recently experiencing a small revival in
popularity. I would love to hear this old Irish style (any
commercially available recordings recommended?).
The double-row B/C, F/F# accordion allows for a more fluid-like
playing style, with ornaments closer to the rolls and cuts of fiddle
playing. Cross-row playing means less jerking of the bellows, which
makes it easier to play tunes at lightning speed. So perhaps the
double-row accordion is better for today's session style & stage-music
playing (i.e. Altan, Nomos, Danu). I am also aware of the fully
chromatic scope of the double-row instruments.
Again, I am stating the above as merely my initial perceptions of the
instrument. I am wondering what others think about my comments. I
realise that, as with any instrument, the longer one plays it, the
less physically demanding it seems. I know for instance that when I
first started playing the whistle, it seemed a daunting task to ever
learn to do a roll or a cut, but now I do tight ornaments without even
thinking. I just want to spawn some general discussions about the
instrument.
I'm interested in hearing anyone's general thoughts on single-row
melodeons, old vs. new playing styles, suitability for certain types
of tunes, ornaments, difficulty, etc. etc. etc....
Just interested in absorbing any information I can about the single
row button accordion.
Brent Santin
wooden...@yahoo.ca
PS: you can hear my flute playing at "http://greanstalk.iuma.com" (no
melodeon playing there though!)
Mitch Gordon
style -- his name is Tom Doherty. He appears on a couple of tracks on the
Nimbus Records cd called Dear Old Erin's Isle. You might try to locate that
company (they're in Virginia and England) and inquire, as he may have his own
recordings as well.
Since you've already made headway on playing D tunes on a D box, the logical
box to play for more ornamented music and for tunes that just don't work on the
1-row would be a C#/D. Everything you're doing now could be done on the inside
(D) row, but you'd also have the outside (C#) row for the missing accidentals.
There are some relatively inexpensive good quality student boxes available in
C#/D from Weltmeister (the 86W, at about $600 US) or the Learner from Billy
McComisky in New Jersey (about $450 US). There probably aren't many older
Hohners around in that tuning; I assume you can buy a new double ray in C#/D
for $800 or so, but won't swear that they make them (anyone else know?).
Yes, diatonic boxes are pretty nutty. But we players love them for some
reason!!
Mitch Gordon
Guerneville, CA, US
2-row BC Irish box player
William Mc Hale
Cool post, I will just interject my comments in your post so it is clear
what I am referring too.
> Hi, I just started playing the single-row melodeon "button accordion"
> and I just wanted to throw out some random thoughts and start a
> general discussion of the one-row melodeon.
> After playing the Irish flute/whistle for twelve years, a bit of tenor
> banjo and mandolin, as well and bodhran and bones, I got a real
> curiosity about 'squeezebox, free-reed' type instruments in Irish
> music.
Personally I think the button accordion rocks in Irish Music, there are
some great box players out there and it is one of few core traditional
instruments that can play melody and do some (although limited)
accompanyment as well.
> The concertina is my favourite free-reed bellows instrument for Irish
> music, but where I live (Eastern Ontario, Canada) concertinas are
> pretty darned hard to find. The only concertina one is likely to
> find, if at all, in a music shop in my area is one of those cheap
> Chinese-manufactured or modern Italian ones with paper bellows,
> accordion reeds and bad button action. I looked around on the
> Internet and thought about ordering a high-end 'real' concertina from
> the U.S. or England, but the prices were very high, especially
> considering the currency exchange rate (I was looking at close to
> $2000 for a decent instrument). Since I was only considering
> free-reed instruments as a margin to my Irish flute playing, I wasn't
> prepared to invest this much in it. A used instrument would have been
> cheaper, but the chances of finding a good quality used concertina in
> my part of Canada just by poking about in music stores are very slim,
> indeed.
Good concertinas are rather pricey. I wouldn't diss the ones with the
accordion reeds, but the cheap ones (cheap being a relative term, a $400
(US) concertina being a cheap pne) do have mechanical problems. From what
I understand, Bob Tedrow, besides making some beautiful mid range
Concertinas, soups up Stagi ones for a a reasonable price.
> Since I live in Eastern Ontario (close to Quebec) there is still a bit
> of a button accordion tradition here (although it's mostly for Ottawa
> Valley and Quebecois style music). So I knew my chances of finding a
> decent quality used button accordion were probably a lot better than
> finding a concertina. I was correct, because I soon located a few
> sources for decent quality used instruments, which were priced at $300
> Canadian and under. In fact I met a French-speaking fellow near the
> Thousand-Islands who has over 300 accordions in his collection!
300 accordions? I hope he is a dealer. I suppose all musicians at some
point or other have an urge to acquire more instruments than they need...
but I mean 300 would be alot of tin whistles where the pricey ones top out
at the prices where cheap accordions begin.
> The problem was, in Canada, there are a lot of button accordions, but
> most boxes are C/G or something similar. B/C boxes or F/F# are almost
> as rare as concertinas in this part of the world. Instruments in the
> key of "D" are also a little harder to find. So, I ended up buying a
> Cajun style melodeon in "C" and later on I also bought a Hohner
> single-row box which had been restored and re-tuned to the key of "D".
Well if you are going to stick to a single row box, D is definitely the
right key. Heck there are even some advantages, the one row will be
lighter and therefore probably responds faster. Still a good B/C or C#/D
box would add alot of flexibility to your playing.
> The "C" box is a Hohner Ariette Cajun model (1990s). It is made in
> China, although I didn't know that when I bought it. Despite some
> general misgivings about Chinese made accordions, it does sound nice,
> and has four stops, which give good control over tone. The build
> quality is strong, but the bellows are a little stiff and the buttons
> require a lot of finger pressure.
Well the buttons shouldn't require that much pressure... I have an old
Hohner Double Ray B/C that I play, and it doesn't require that much
pressure to play, nor does the Castagnari Ilary that is my main box. The
bellows might loosen up if you play it enough. Of course it being a C box
it will be somewhat more limited... though I can think of a few tunes that
you could get away with (Sean South of Gary Owen and 21 Years, Mrs.
Crowley's polka).
> The old Hohner button-box which I had restored and retuned to "D"
> (very dry), on the other hand, plays as light as a feather, is quick
> and responsive and is a rather nice instrument. It also can be quite
> loud! There is a very slight 'raspiness' to its sound when played
> vigorously, which may or may not be a desirable trait to some people.
> It doesn't have stops.
> I suppose in retrospect I could have bought one double-row accordion
> in D/C (if they exist), but instead I bought two separate instruments.
I don't think they exist, except as custom work. I think it is more
normal to see C/G or D/G tunings outside of Irish. These days almost
everything in the Irish World is built around B/C and C#/D with a
smattering of C/C#, C#/C and D/D#.
Actually Ironically I find the accordion easier than the Tin Whistle... I
think maybe because while the fingering on the tin whistle might be a bit
more intuitive (at least until you get to cross fingering notes) you have
to be very careful to cover the whole completely, on the accordion as long
as I get the button without hitting any others the note will sound. The
in out nature of the bellows never bothered me... but then again I am a
computer programmer, so I guess I have the mathematical apptitude you
referred to :).
> Then there was also the interesting challenge of ornaments. Because
> of my background with the whistle/flute, mandolin/banjo, I was used to
> putting in lots of traditional rolls, cuts and double stops....but
> because of the mechanics of the melodeon, ornaments have to be
> approached in an entirely different way (one which recognises the
> capabilities & limits of the instrument). I often find myself asking
> "How am I going to give this tune a little more lift, rather than just
> play the basic notes? Well, normally I'd put a roll here, but if I
> try this quick bellow shuffle then maybe...."
This is one of the key areas where the two row instruments really shine.
On the B/C box, the sharps are often played in the opposite direction to
the whole note, so if a roll or grace note in scale might require a change
in bellows direction that will just slow things down too much, cheat a
little and play a little outside the scale. For example a BCD triplet
would be kind of tough since the C is played on the push and the other
two notes are on the draw, but a BC#D triplet will sound nearly the same
and can be played much more smoothly.
> Perhaps I have made the melodeon sound more difficult to learn than
> has actually been my experience. I should clarify my stance by
> stating that the single-row melodeon is not a terribly difficult
> instrument, but I find it more difficult than instruments I have
> previously learned to play.
> I also find that with a single-row melodeon, there are certain tunes
> that just "sound better" than others. I'm not talking about tunes
> that change keys mid-way through. Those are going to be nearly
> impossible to play on a diatonic instrument. I'm speaking of the way
> that the rhythm required in operating the instrument has the effect
> that certain tunes are more suited to it. For instance, it seems that
> Irish polkas work very well on the single-row melodeon. The Irish
> polka 2/4 beat seems to go hand-in-hand with the accents produced by
> the movement of the bellows. Jigs, especially single-jigs in major
> keys, also work well on the one-row melodeon. Fluid sounding reels
> such as Sligo Maid, however, seem a little more difficult to play
> properly.
That is definitely where the B/C box comes into its own. In fact the B/C
box has been criticized for being too smooth :). On the B/C box, a D
major scale only has two changes in bellows direction (as opposed to a
change for every note on a D melodian) which allows it to play very
smoothly.
> I have done some research regarding one-row melodeons and have come to
> learn that they used to be the 'traditionally' preferred type for
> Irish music, but have been replaced in the last 40 years by
> double-row, semi-tone apart, button accordions.
Well there is alot of speculation as to the reasons. The best theory I
heard has to do with cost (they are the cheapest accordions) and
portability (they are also the lightest). Remember prior to WWII and even
into the 1950s and 1960s most Irish Farmers were relatively poor, and so
most people in villages needed relatively cheap instruments they could
carry to where they would be playing.
> I have read how the different characteristics these two types of
> accordions necessitate very different styles of ornamentation and
> playing. From what I understand, the older, single-row instruments
> required more bellows work. This resulted in a very marked, rhythmic
> sound, which is well suited for dances. That, and the greater key
> stretches required meant that the playing style was one of "steady,
> clear notes and tunes", not overly complex, or embellished, and played
> at slower speeds than is fashionable today. From what I also
> understand, the one-row instrument and the playing style of one-row
> melodeon players is now 'out of style' but has still has a core
> following and has been recently experiencing a small revival in
> popularity. I would love to hear this old Irish style (any
> commercially available recordings recommended?).
Well the style has to some degree, as witnessed by the current popularity
of the C#/D box, but even then, the foremost proponents of the style are
playing very quickly and with ornamentation these days.
> The double-row B/C, F/F# accordion allows for a more fluid-like
> playing style, with ornaments closer to the rolls and cuts of fiddle
> playing. Cross-row playing means less jerking of the bellows, which
> makes it easier to play tunes at lightning speed. So perhaps the
> double-row accordion is better for today's session style & stage-music
> playing (i.e. Altan, Nomos, Danu). I am also aware of the fully
> chromatic scope of the double-row instruments.
Well please don't limit your experience with the modern Accordion to those
groups; not that they are bad, but I am not sure any of the band albums
really allow the accordion to shine. Look at players like John Whelan,
James Keane, Billy McComiskey, John Williams, Sharon Shannon, Joe Burke,
and Jackie Daly (not to mention many other fine box players I have
missed).
> Again, I am stating the above as merely my initial perceptions of the
> instrument. I am wondering what others think about my comments. I
> realise that, as with any instrument, the longer one plays it, the
> less physically demanding it seems. I know for instance that when I
> first started playing the whistle, it seemed a daunting task to ever
> learn to do a roll or a cut, but now I do tight ornaments without even
> thinking. I just want to spawn some general discussions about the
> instrument.
I definitely think that practice is definitely the key. I mean I figure
my experience with the two row is maybe just a smidge more than yours with
the one row (though it is the only instrument I can really play at all),
but I do find that every week the tunes sound just a bit better, a bit
smoother.
> I'm interested in hearing anyone's general thoughts on single-row
> melodeons, old vs. new playing styles, suitability for certain types
> of tunes, ornaments, difficulty, etc. etc. etc....
Well I think the basic problem with the one row comes down to the fact
that it is just a little too limited in Irish Music, especially when one
figures that a two row removes most of those limitations with little gain
in either weight or price.
> Just interested in absorbing any information I can about the single
> row button accordion.
> Brent Santin
> wooden...@yahoo.ca
> PS: you can hear my flute playing at "http://greanstalk.iuma.com" (no
> melodeon playing there though!)
Well wait until you become addicted to it. You might find yourself
putting your flute away :).
--
Bill
***************************************************************************
Why Be Normal?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Home page - http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~wmchal1
***************************************************************************
Bretton
> After playing the Irish flute/whistle for twelve years, ...
I'd been playing whistle for about 4 years when I started learning the
melodeon...I got a 2-voice melodeon in D off eBay for $150 that was
really a pretty good deal...it looked like a small Paolo Soprani (red)
with just one row of treble buttons and 4 bass/chord buttons.
> The concertina is my favourite free-reed bellows instrument for Irish
> music, ...
Same here. I'm currently waiting for a custom made one-row melodeon
(one voice/reed) with the reeds mounted in a reed pan (like a
concertina)...so it should look like a melodeon but sounds more/less
like a concertina. I really like the melodeon/accordion playing style
but do prefer the concertina sound most of the time so this should be
a good compromise. AND...(the important part), even for a custom made
box it will be about half the price of a decent mid-range concertina.
> Anyway, I've worked at learning it quite diligently every evening for
> the past six months, and have half a dozen tunes under my belt (Wise
> Maid, Tarbolten Reel, Mug of Brown Ale, some slow airs, etc.).
> I also find that with a single-row melodeon, there are certain tunes
> that just "sound better" than others.
Yes, I've found that there are tunes that "fit" just right on the
melodeon and these are much easier to learn. "The Mug of Brown Ale"
is one I also play. Also check out "Tobin's Favorite", another jig
that's really easy to pick up on the melodeon..."The Boys of Bluehill"
is a good hornpipe to try. Oh, one more... The Two Germans
(Barndances) Based on Altan's playing from the CD Runaway Sunday are
really nice on melodeon. You can get sheet music for them here if
needed (but get a copy of Altan's CD and give them a listen too!):
http://www.irishfiddle.com/unusualtunes.html
>...i.e. almost as if a requirement of playing the melodeon is to have
a bit of >mathematic aptitude. I often liken it to "learning how to
type".
I was a Yeoman in the US Navy for four years and became a very fast
typer...I currently spend quite a bit of time working with computers
so I still type quite fast. I think this has really helped with
learning the melodeon...and you do need a different kind of mindset
for playing...once I have a tune down pretty well it becomes almost
intuitive...a different feeling than what I get when playing whistle.
The above tunes I mentioned just seem to "make sense" as far as the
buttons and ins/outs go...
> Then there was also the interesting challenge of ornaments...
Cuts seem to work out pretty well by just tapping the next higher (in
pitch)button for a split second (right on the beat) before you sound
the actual note (similar to what you do on a whistle in a way...). I
had a lot of trouble with rolls too (still working on them), here's
the way I'm currently practicing them:
If you're doing a roll on A: press the A, then do a cut on the A by
hitting the D for a split second (right on the beat) before playing
the A a second time, then play the A again (no ornament). A - DA - A
. This isn't really a true roll like you could do on a 2-row box but
if you get the rythm right it sound very similar. Starting out this
will be easiest with your strongest fingers (middle for cutting and
index for playing the note) but practice it using the middle/ring and
even the ring/pinky fingers too. If you ever decide to take up the
2-row (B/C or C#/D) all you'll have to add to get a "true" roll is the
tap/strike on the third note of the roll which uses a button from the
outside row.
>I would love to hear this old Irish style (any commercially available
>recordings recommended?).
My current favorite is JOHN O'HALLORAN: "BUT WHY, JOHNNY?"
http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/CG_OHalloran_John.html
-Brett
Mitch Gordon
box. Check out his We Won't Go Home 'Til Morning cd.
Jay Mottern
FYI, Frank Edgley's a concertina maker in Ontario, but his 'tinas run
around US$1600. You won't find an Anglo concertina that's really any good
for the $300 you paid for your box. You might consider an English if you
still lean towards concertinas- you may find one for not much more than
that price.
I recently gave around $425 for a modified Chinese-made C/G 4-stop single
row melodeon ("Cajun accordeon"). Your comments about the difficulty of
learning these compared to other instruments was interesting. Since the
only other instrument I've ever really played was a tin whistle and that
years ago, I don't really have anything to compare it to. Learning any
instrument would be equally hard for me, I guess. I'll let you know in 6
months :)
Funny, I'd heard that D melodeons were common around Quebec, and the C
boxes were mostly around Louisiana. You're right that the first of these
boxes used to be made mainly in Germany in the early part of this
century- er, I mean last century (I'm still not used to that<g>).
Re: recordings, ISTR a CD at home by Jackie Daley all done on one of
these single-row boxes, with piano accompaniment. I don't remember what
key it is- I'll have to go dig it out of my collection. I'll let you know
if I find it. The box he's posing with on the cover is a cheap Hohner
(but not the Arietta like yours probably is).
-Jay
J.M. Shoup
Edgley in Windsor, Ontario for a truly fine concertina. Although
accordion-reeded, the workmanship, action and tone are great, and the
waiting list reasonable.
Eric Root
Jay Mottern wrote:
> Brent:
>
> FYI, Frank Edgley's a concertina maker in Ontario, but his 'tinas run
> around US$1600. You won't find an Anglo concertina that's really any good
> for the $300 you paid for your box. You might consider an English if you
> still lean towards concertinas- you may find one for not much more than
> that price.
>
This sentence is confusing; if Brent wanted to pay not much more than US$1600, why
shouldn't he get an Anglo instead of an English, since that is what appeals to
him? Unless you meant you thought he could find an English for close to $300;
no way, with its larger number of reeds and action components, an English is
going to cost _more_ at a given quality level than an Anglo.
-Eric Root
William Mc Hale
> Jay Mottern wrote:
Well actually it depends on the Concertina. With respect to new
concertinas, you are undoubtedly right. But last I checked the used
market for Anglos has been rather busy of late. I think it might have
alot to do with the popularity of the Anglo for Irish Music.
--
Bill
***************************************************************************
I Hope You Sit On The Tack Of Success And Rise Rapidly.
Jeff Hildreth
My prefernece for sound is a one row, dry..4 stop LMMH..and preferably
Quebec made though I am really fond of the funky four stop 114
Hohners..I even like spoon basses..
Players.. Johnny Connolly, Johnny OHallaran (sp) Brenden
Begley,Dermot Byrne, In Quebec.. Denis Pepin and Gaston Nolet and
literally dozens of others..
I took a short foray into the world of concertina a few years ago and
ended up with a Jeffires and a Wheatstone..sold them adn continued on
with button boxes.. recently decided to try concertina again and got
some CD's and videoas and really expolred (empirically )
possibilities..the video was such a turn-off.. uninspiring..that I
bagge it at least for now..if that's what its all about.. no
thanks..though I do have some favorite players..not my cup o tea
Practical matters..
Fact you can get a melodeon or button box of comparable quality to a
concertina for 2/3 the price.. its just reality..and for older boxes
the differencers are even greater..
A 1 reed concertina 30 button with Accordion reeds is approx $1600 US
The typical Anglo Norman, Marcus, Geuns Wakker, Button Box Ceili ,
Edgely etc
some with only a 4-8 wk wait..
you can get a 2 row button box .. even some models of Castagnari and
Saltarelle for $1000 ish.. say an Irish Bouebe or a Cast Ciacy for
$1150...
You can get a hand made Quebec or Italian single row for $1500- a
Cajun for $1000..
Not sure what music you want to play as that is ELEMENTAL
Ya gotta start there..
If its Cumbia 3 Row Hohner Corona..Quebec single row D
Breton/French G/C
Dutch C/F Brit stuff D/G Irish B/C C#/D and their relevant half
step up
counter parts...
Or you could play Irish on a D?G as does Tim Eady or French
moderne/quasi ??
On a C#D as does Chistian MAes.. Breton moderne on an A/D as does
Yann Fanche
Not sure what you want to accomplish
The Idea of a concertina box with a Melodeon layout is what the
FRANGLO is all about as ordered by Emmanuel Pariselle...cool idea
Another thought is to go to Yahoo Groups diatonic as your qeuestions
are more specific to that group
For me For the moment not sure.. as much as I like Irish music and the
"logic" of a half step box.. not my style of play.. I like fifth
apart...
Give a listen to MArc Perrone Alain Chatry, Yann Fanche Perroche,
Bruno Le Tron
Get the Trad MAg booksand CD's Milleret/Pignol...Andy Cutting
Again the key is what music do you want to play...
there are lots of folks playing the improbableon unlikely
instruments..Let us know what you want to play and stop by Yahoo
groups Diatonic..
Bjcomm9615
if I'm not mistaken.
Brian
Bretton
order is kind of a one-row version of Peter "Stormy" Hyde's Flutina.
I've taken to referring to it as a Melotina.
The Yahoo! Groups Irish Box group can be found at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irishbox/
It's not a real high volume group but there are some interesting
discussions...they also have some recordings of people playing in the
files area. I've got a couple on there (mug of brown ale & tobin's
favorite):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irishbox/files/
WARNING: I am just a beginner so don't expect too much if you go and
listen!...they're played on a 'toy' one-row in the key of C.
-Brett
jef...@earthlink.net (Jeff Hildreth) wrote in message
Brent Santin
> Very interesting posting, Brent. I know of one 1-row Irish player of the old
> style -- his name is Tom Doherty. He appears on a couple of tracks on the
> Nimbus Records cd called Dear Old Erin's Isle. You might try to locate that
> company (they're in Virginia and England) and inquire, as he may have his own
> recordings as well.
I have found that Amazon.com has a recording entitled "Melodeon
Greats: Collection Of Melodeon Masterpieces", which has some recording
by many Melodeon masters, including the Wyper brothers, who were very
famous Irish melodeon players during the early 20th century. There
are even some on-line samples to listen to.
> Since you've already made headway on playing D tunes on a D box, the logical
> box to play for more ornamented music and for tunes that just don't work on the
> 1-row would be a C#/D. Everything you're doing now could be done on the inside
> (D) row, but you'd also have the outside (C#) row for the missing accidentals.
Oh, that's very interesting. I hadn't realised, until you described
it, that the 2-row C#/D box is mostly played on the D row, just like a
1-row melodeon. I just hadn't given it any thought and so assumed all
sorts of crazy cross-fingering was going on like on a B/C box. That's
good news, because it means that if ever wish to move "up" to an
instrument that is fully chromatic, I can do so without having to
re-learn all my fingering. Also, since the C#/D box is gaining
popularity among Irish players, I won't have some obscurely tuned
instrument, either.
Thanks!
Brent
Brent Santin
> > I was correct, because I soon located a few
> > sources for decent quality used instruments, which were priced at $300
> > Canadian and under. In fact I met a French-speaking fellow near the
> > Thousand-Islands who has over 300 accordions in his collection!
>
> 300 accordions? I hope he is a dealer. I suppose all musicians at some
> point or other have an urge to acquire more instruments than they need...
> but I mean 300 would be alot of tin whistles where the pricey ones top out
> at the prices where cheap accordions begin.
No, he is a collector! You should see his basement. Looks like an
accordion museum. He's the fellow who restored and re-tuned my "D"
melodeon...and he did a wonderful job. I asked him to tune it
"dry"....and since he comes from a different playing style (and
prefers a different era of music) I think he found the dry sound very
strange. But as I said he did a very good job.
> Actually Ironically I find the accordion easier than the Tin Whistle... I
> think maybe because while the fingering on the tin whistle might be a bit
> more intuitive (at least until you get to cross fingering notes) you have
> to be very careful to cover the whole completely, on the accordion as long
> as I get the button without hitting any others the note will sound. The
> in out nature of the bellows never bothered me... but then again I am a
> computer programmer, so I guess I have the mathematical apptitude you
> referred to :).
I do find the accordion "less intuitive" than the whistle or mandolin,
but maybe that's only because I'm just starting on it. Are there
people out there who can "jam" freestyle with a diatonic melodeon
(There probably are in the Cajun genre of music)? Or do you think the
melodeon is not really an instrument that is conducive to "freestyle
jamming". I just bring that up, because to be able to do so would be
a good indication it's an "intuitive" instrument.
> > I have read how the different characteristics these two types of
> > accordions necessitate very different styles of ornamentation and
> > playing. I would love to hear this old Irish style (any
> > commercially available recordings recommended?).
>
> Well the style has to some degree, as witnessed by the current popularity
> of the C#/D box, but even then, the foremost proponents of the style are
> playing very quickly and with ornamentation these days.
It would be interesting to hear the same tuned played side-by-side on
a B/C box and a C#/D box.
> I definitely think that practice is definitely the key. I mean I figure
> my experience with the two row is maybe just a smidge more than yours with
> the one row (though it is the only instrument I can really play at all),
> but I do find that every week the tunes sound just a bit better, a bit
> smoother.
Yes, I do think you are right there....every day makes a little bit of
a difference.
> Well wait until you become addicted to it. You might find yourself
> putting your flute away :).
Help! It's happened already!
Brent
sid blum
> it, that the 2-row C#/D box is mostly played on the D row, just like a
> 1-row melodeon. I just hadn't given it any thought and so assumed all
> sorts of crazy cross-fingering was going on like on a B/C box. That's
> good news, because it means that if ever wish to move "up" to an
> instrument that is fully chromatic, I can do so without having to
> re-learn all my fingering. Also, since the C#/D box is gaining
> popularity among Irish players, I won't have some obscurely tuned
> instrument, either.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Brent
Advice from a lurker and b/c dabbler-
What music did you hear that made you want to do this stuff?
Get an accordion like that person played.
Learn your first few tunes note for note.
sid
Brent Santin
> > The concertina is my favourite free-reed bellows instrument for Irish
> > music, ...
>
> Same here. I'm currently waiting for a custom made one-row melodeon
> (one voice/reed) with the reeds mounted in a reed pan (like a
> concertina)...so it should look like a melodeon but sounds more/less
> like a concertina. I really like the melodeon/accordion playing style
> but do prefer the concertina sound most of the time so this should be
> a good compromise. AND...(the important part), even for a custom made
> box it will be about half the price of a decent mid-range concertina.
Wow! That will certainly be an interesting instrument. I'm surprised
you can get a custom made instrument at all for such a good price.
> > I also find that with a single-row melodeon, there are certain tunes
> > that just "sound better" than others.
>
> Yes, I've found that there are tunes that "fit" just right on the
> melodeon and these are much easier to learn. "The Mug of Brown Ale"
> is one I also play. Also check out "Tobin's Favorite", another jig
> that's really easy to pick up on the melodeon..."The Boys of Bluehill"
> is a good hornpipe to try. Oh, one more... The Two Germans
> (Barndances) Based on Altan's playing from the CD Runaway Sunday are
> really nice on melodeon.
Oh! Thanks. Suggestions for tunes that work well on the Melodeon are
always welcome.
> > Then there was also the interesting challenge of ornaments...
>
> Cuts seem to work out pretty well by just tapping the next higher (in
> pitch)button for a split second (right on the beat) before you sound
> the actual note (similar to what you do on a whistle in a way...). I
> had a lot of trouble with rolls too (still working on them), here's
> the way I'm currently practicing them:
>
> If you're doing a roll on A: press the A, then do a cut on the A by
> hitting the D for a split second (right on the beat) before playing
> the A a second time, then play the A again (no ornament). A - DA - A
> . This isn't really a true roll like you could do on a 2-row box but
> if you get the rythm right it sound very similar.
Hey, that worked well. I actually was able to do it your way, and by
hitting the button just below the A button instead of the D.
Have you ever watched Phil Cunningham play the piano accordion? He
does extremely tight (machine gun tight) rolls and ornaments on a
single note. I could almost swear he was taking two fingers and
"drumming" on a single key. Maybe he is doing that, but it's
extremely fast and sounds great.
I do a little "bellows shuffle" sometimes in jigs that goes like this.
If a (6/8) tune called for a simple A-F#-A-B-C#-D (all eighth notes),
I might change that to A-F#/G-A-B-C#-D (the F# and G are 16th notes).
A small change, but adds a bit of life. Calls for a bit of a quick
bellows shuffle though. I hope I described that well enough to
understand. I am not very strong with music notation.
> My current favorite is JOHN O'HALLORAN: "BUT WHY, JOHNNY?"
> http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/CG_OHalloran_John.html
I checked out the web-site, but really wish there was somewhere on the
web I could hear some sound clips of this album, before I decide to
order it. Having to order from the U.S. or Europe turns a simple $15
U.S. CD into more than $30 Canadian when you add on the exchange and
shipping fees, so I like to be sure before I place such an order.
Brent
Brent Santin
> discussions...they also have some recordings of people playing in the
> files area. I've got a couple on there (mug of brown ale & tobin's
> favorite):
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irishbox/files/
>
> WARNING: I am just a beginner so don't expect too much if you go and
> listen!...they're played on a 'toy' one-row in the key of C.
Hey, that toy melodeon actually doesn't sound too bad! My very first
melodeon was a bright blue toy "HERO" Chinese model....and I played
the heck out of. It helped me to learn the proper fingering, but it
never was as nicely in tune as that one you are playing, plus, I blew
out one of the soft brass reeds within a few months of owning the
thing. It would be nice to have a tiny melodeon again one day,
although of better quality. I've seen some of the Italian ones, but
can't justify it now....maybe if I got *really* good at the Melodeon I
could justify spending $600 US on a mini travel melodeon of good
manufacture.
Brent
William Mc Hale
> William Mc Hale <wmc...@umbc7.umbc.edu> wrote in message news:<b0qi74$u2$1...@news.umbc.edu>...
> No, he is a collector! You should see his basement. Looks like an
> accordion museum. He's the fellow who restored and re-tuned my "D"
> melodeon...and he did a wonderful job. I asked him to tune it
> "dry"....and since he comes from a different playing style (and
> prefers a different era of music) I think he found the dry sound very
> strange. But as I said he did a very good job.
Actually I am beginning to find that I think I perfer something a little
wetter than completely dry. My Castagnari is tuned dry, and while it
sounds great, I am starting to discover that I really like the sounds of
players like James Keane and John Whelan who seem to play something more
akin to swing tuned.
> I do find the accordion "less intuitive" than the whistle or mandolin,
> but maybe that's only because I'm just starting on it. Are there
> people out there who can "jam" freestyle with a diatonic melodeon
> (There probably are in the Cajun genre of music)? Or do you think the
> melodeon is not really an instrument that is conducive to "freestyle
> jamming". I just bring that up, because to be able to do so would be
> a good indication it's an "intuitive" instrument.
>
When you mean Jam freestyle, do you mean develop melody lines on the fly
and have them sound good in context with what is being played? If so then
yeah, I know Billy McComiskey can do it, and I suspect that all of the
other big Irish Box players can do it and probably quite a few lesser
known but still very talented players.
>> > I have read how the different characteristics these two types of
>> > accordions necessitate very different styles of ornamentation and
>> > playing. I would love to hear this old Irish style (any
>> > commercially available recordings recommended?).
>>
>> Well the style has to some degree, as witnessed by the current popularity
>> of the C#/D box, but even then, the foremost proponents of the style are
>> playing very quickly and with ornamentation these days.
> It would be interesting to hear the same tuned played side-by-side on
> a B/C box and a C#/D box.
Not sure it would be as informative of the differences between the boxes
as the differences between the players. I imagine the C#/D box would be a
smidge more rhytmic based on the greater need to shift bellows direction,
but with respect to ornaments and things, it is probably more an
individual player's taste.
>> Well wait until you become addicted to it. You might find yourself
>> putting your flute away :).
> Help! It's happened already!
Why is that a bad thing? Heck really good 2 row accordions are a fair bit
cheaper than really good flutes :). Not to mention it is easier to see
where the money went :).
--
Bill
***************************************************************************
An Optimist Thinks The Glass Is Half Full. A Pessimist Thinks The
Glass Is Half Empty. A Realist Knows That If He Sticks Around, He's
William Mc Hale
> I do a little "bellows shuffle" sometimes in jigs that goes like this.
> If a (6/8) tune called for a simple A-F#-A-B-C#-D (all eighth notes),
> I might change that to A-F#/G-A-B-C#-D (the F# and G are 16th notes).
> A small change, but adds a bit of life. Calls for a bit of a quick
> bellows shuffle though. I hope I described that well enough to
> understand. I am not very strong with music notation.
Hehehe :). On a B/C box the F# and the G are played in the same direction
(the F# is on the outside row, fairly close to the G on the inside row) so
you could play the same line without the extra bellows play :).
Jack J. Woehr
> Why is that a bad thing? Heck really good 2 row accordions are a fair bit
> cheaper than really good flutes :). Not to mention it is easier to see
> where the money went :).
And used Club System boxes are even cheaper. My free online web book on
playing the two-row-based-but-chromatic-on-the-draw Club System
will be up within a week or two at http://www.delaguerre.com/delaguerre
Club accordion may not be "authentic" for Irish but it's practical!
Brent Santin
> Brent Santin <wooden...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > William Mc Hale <wmc...@umbc7.umbc.edu> wrote in message news:<b0qi74$u2$1...@news.umbc.edu>...
>
> > No, he is a collector! You should see his basement. Looks like an
> > accordion museum. He's the fellow who restored and re-tuned my "D"
> > melodeon...and he did a wonderful job. I asked him to tune it
> > "dry"....and since he comes from a different playing style (and
> > prefers a different era of music) I think he found the dry sound very
> > strange. But as I said he did a very good job.
>
> Actually I am beginning to find that I think I perfer something a little
> wetter than completely dry. My Castagnari is tuned dry, and while it
> sounds great, I am starting to discover that I really like the sounds of
> players like James Keane and John Whelan who seem to play something more
> akin to swing tuned.
Well, after playing my completely dry 2-reed instrument for a while,
I'm starting to wonder if I would maybe like it just *slightly* wet.
When playing it solo, it sounds a little lonely. Hmmm.....I think
I'll give it a little longer.
Brent
adhoman
>
> Funny, I'd heard that D melodeons were common around Quebec, [...]. The
> box he's posing with on the cover is a cheap Hohner
> (but not the Arietta like yours probably is).
D melodeons are indeed common around quebec, that is: commonly played!
that's why you're likely to find a C box on the used market. however, i
found out last summer that if you're looking to buy a hohner or other
beginner box in D, go to one of the builders: ouellet/vezina or messervier
in montmagny, or gagné in quebec city. they've got plenty of D hohners that
were taken as trade-ins when people stepped up to high-end boxes. (however,
lot's of pros in quebec also like to play on C boxes (messerviers, mélodies,
etc., not hohners) -- it's often their second (or third) box, used when they
aren't playing with fiddlers).
also, perhaps the modified hohner is an arietta, but i doubt it; it's very
common up there to modify the HA-114. they change C boxes into D and they
often replace the spoon bass with the kind of buttons otherwise commonly
found on cajun and quebecois boxes.
andy
Bretton
Actually, I just made a new "discovery" with it last night...I took it
appart and taped off one bank of reeds and now I have a toy melodeon
with one reed/note which sounds MUCH better (sounds like a cheap
concertina now). I'll post a new sound file of it tonight or tomorrow
on the IrishBox files area. I guess if I blow one side out I can tape
it up and use the other side.
-Brett
Roger Gawley
On 26 Jan 2003, Brent Santin wrote:
> mitc...@aol.com (Mitch Gordon) wrote in message news:<20030123185813...@mb-bd.aol.com>...
> > Very interesting posting, Brent. I know of one 1-row Irish player of the old
> > style -- his name is Tom Doherty. He appears on a couple of tracks on the
> > Nimbus Records cd called Dear Old Erin's Isle. You might try to locate that
> > company (they're in Virginia and England) and inquire, as he may have his own
> > recordings as well.
>
> I have found that Amazon.com has a recording entitled "Melodeon
> Greats: Collection Of Melodeon Masterpieces", which has some recording
> by many Melodeon masters, including the Wyper brothers, who were very
> famous Irish melodeon players during the early 20th century. There
> are even some on-line samples to listen to.
Melodion Greats is a Topic CD from old 78s. Most of the performers on it
are scotish and I am pretty sure the Wyper brothers were. The tunes and
the timing are great but the sound quality is rather harsh. You would
probably not want to listen right through in one sitting. Roger
Brent Santin
> > Hey, that toy melodeon actually doesn't sound too bad!
>
> Actually, I just made a new "discovery" with it last night...I took it
> appart and taped off one bank of reeds and now I have a toy melodeon
> with one reed/note which sounds MUCH better (sounds like a cheap
> concertina now). I'll post a new sound file of it tonight or tomorrow
> on the IrishBox files area. I guess if I blow one side out I can tape
> it up and use the other side.
Yeah, that's what I did to my HERO toy melodeon....and it did sound
great for about a month. But I guess all of that air pressure on one
set of reeds was what blew out the reed on mine.
Brent
Brent Santin
> Jay Mottern wrote:
>
> >
> > Funny, I'd heard that D melodeons were common around Quebec, [...]. The
> > box he's posing with on the cover is a cheap Hohner
> > (but not the Arietta like yours probably is).
>
> common up there to modify the HA-114. they change C boxes into D and they
> often replace the spoon bass with the kind of buttons otherwise commonly
> found on cajun and quebecois boxes.
> andy
I have seen a lot of those HA-114 boxes around here. I think they
look kind of neat, but they don't sound that great. Actually, mine is
more of a "Pokerwork" style Hohner. I think it was a 2-row instrument
once.
Brent
Mr Mark Tandy
cannot recommend his playing highly enough! Thank you for this link - I've
been looking for quite a while for someone who sells it.
Mark
Brent Santin <wooden...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:fdf92243.03012...@posting.google.com...
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Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
> Are there
> people out there who can "jam" freestyle with a diatonic melodeon
Well, I'll attempt to jam with a diatonic Anglo Concertina... and if
folks are in a key I can reach, I can usually do a reasonable job of it.
There are some limitation on ornamentation, but they're at least as
much because I'm still learning as due to the instrument itself;
probably moreso.
> a good indication it's an "intuitive" instrument.
Diatonics seem to be intuitive for some folks, counterintuitive for
others -- and intuitive for some things while being counterintuitive for
others. As is true of most instruments, and most tools in general. It's
really hard to come up with something which is optimal for all purposes,
so it's all a matter of understanding the trade-offs and picking the
ones that suit your needs.
--
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
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