Register notation
bvd...@uniserve.com
Hi. Getting back to all this accordion stuff and was wondering if anyone
here knows the meaning of the (R) and (*) switch symbols in older
accordion music. I think that the (R) means (Master), but I really don't
know about the (*).
Also, does anyone know of a comprehensive web page listing all the
currently used register symbols?
--
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvd...@uniserve.com
WWW: http://users.uniserve.com/~bvdpoel
Dave Garland
>does anyone know of a comprehensive web page listing all the
>currently used register symbols?
http://www.accordions.com/index/art/stradella.shtml has the bass
symbols. Wendy Morrison's appraisal page has the treble symbols
http://www.hmtrad.com/wendy/sbx-app.html, or at least most of them.
Unlike the examples you found, the circle-lines-dots symbols are mostly
pretty self-evident. (The biggest mystery I've had was a pair of
switches labelled "V" and "C" that weren't connected to anything at
all.. concensus was that at one time they probably operated a mute that
was no longer present.)
-Dave
bvd...@uniserve.com
Thanks for the links.
To be clear, I'm referring to symbols in written music, not on the
accordion. So, my question "what does (R) and (*) mean?" remains.
---
Stephen Navoyosky
Date: Tue, Feb 12, 2002 3:13 PM
Message-id: <3C69776A...@uniserve.com>
wrote:
To be clear, I'm referring to symbols in written music, not on the
accordion. So, my question "what does (R) and (*) mean?" remains.
--- >>
Prior to the mutiple rocker switches of LMMH, the accordion could only operate
four sounds on the treble by means of two side crash-in levers providing
combinations to make those four sounds or, four push switches on the grill,
doing the same thing.
But prior to that, the accordion could only have two sounds and this is what
you are speaking.
R= register 'on' meaning all reeds playing. LMMM
* = register 'off' meaning the low reed is stopped from playing and the high
sound MMM is heard.
So to state this for all accordions with 2 to 4 sets of treble reeds, the
following applies:
R = Master palm = LMMH=LMMM=LMM=LM depending on the makeup of your accordion.
Notice the low reed is always engaged with at least a M reed.
* = MMM. MMH,MM, M
Notice the middle reed is always engaged.
Those symbols were used until about 1938. Now dots are used. The names given
are superfluous and ridiculous.
Steve Navoyosky
Ike Milligan
higher then. No law exists forcing you to do this.
"Stephen Navoyosky" <sna...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20020212225609...@mb-ms.aol.com...
Ike Milligan
different register, since it's a matter of taste. You could just play with
more harmony, inverssions, go up an octave on the keyboard, add riffs, etc.
<bvd...@uniserve.com> wrote in message
news:3C695579...@uniserve.com...
bvd...@uniserve.com
Thanks, Steve! Probably a bit more detail than I wanted :), but great to
know.
Mario Bruneau
Stephen Navoyosky wrote:
> Prior to the mutiple rocker switches of LMMH, the accordion could only operate
> four sounds on the treble by means of two side crash-in levers providing
> combinations to <snip> Those symbols were used until about 1938. Now dots are
> used. The names given
> are superfluous and ridiculous.
> Steve Navoyosky
Wow Steve!
Thanks for such good infos. I'm really impressed. Je suis très épaté!
Keep on...
--
Mario Bruneau
http://www.mariobruneau.com
http://www.helenecardinal.com
http://www.accordions.com/mario représentant Canadien de AWW
Enlever/Remove NOSPAM de l'adresse de retour
répondre à: pmb...@videotron.ca
bvd...@uniserve.com
>
> Stephen Navoyosky wrote:
>
> > Prior to the mutiple rocker switches of LMMH, the accordion could only operate
> > four sounds on the treble by means of two side crash-in levers providing
> > combinations to <snip> Those symbols were used until about 1938. Now dots are
> > used. The names given
> > are superfluous and ridiculous.
> > Steve Navoyosky
>
> Wow Steve!
>
> Thanks for such good infos. I'm really impressed. Je suis très épaté!
> Keep on...
Not that I'm not impressed with the info either (I am), but I was
looking at some music this PM. Nola, the Pietro Diero arrg. from 1953
(if I'm reading roman numerals correctly MCMLIII?) and it still has the
(R) and (*) notations.
--
Stephen Navoyosky
Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002 11:39 PM
Message-id: <3C6B3F98...@uniserve.com>
WROTE:
<<
Not that I'm not impressed with the info either (I am), but I was
looking at some music this PM. Nola, the Pietro Diero arrg. from 1953
(if I'm reading roman numerals correctly MCMLIII?) and it still has the
(R) and (*) notations.
-- >>
Being one of the "oldsters" on this NG, I pulled that chart from my filing
cabinet and came up with this info:
"NOLA" (#7490) Sam Fox Publishing Co. N.Y. (Felix Arndt) accordion arrangement
by Pietro Deiro.
Copyright 1915 by Felix Arndt (MCMXV)
Copyright assignment to Sam Fox Publishing Co. N.Y 1916 (MCMXVI)
Copyright renewed by same 1942 (MCMXLII)
Copyright by same 1932 (MCMXXXII)
International Copyright Secured
That was the order of copyrights and it appears the Deiro chart was copyrighted
in 1932. One other appearance to validate that time period, is that my copy has
the bass in treble clef. That change to bass clef took place after 1938.
Your 1953 model may be a copyright renewal, or a copyright assignment to
another publisher. Changing the engraved plates would have been costly to them
and its cheaper to just do a reprint.
Steve Navoyosky
bvd...@uniserve.com
>
> << From: bvd...@uniserve.com
> Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002 11:39 PM
> Message-id: <3C6B3F98...@uniserve.com>
>
> WROTE:
>
> <<
> Not that I'm not impressed with the info either (I am), but I was
> looking at some music this PM. Nola, the Pietro Diero arrg. from 1953
> (if I'm reading roman numerals correctly MCMLIII?) and it still has the
> (R) and (*) notations.
>
> -- >>
>
> Being one of the "oldsters" on this NG, I pulled that chart from my filing
> cabinet and came up with this info:
>
> "NOLA" (#7490) Sam Fox Publishing Co. N.Y. (Felix Arndt) accordion arrangement
> by Pietro Deiro.
>
> Copyright 1915 by Felix Arndt (MCMXV)
> Copyright assignment to Sam Fox Publishing Co. N.Y 1916 (MCMXVI)
> Copyright renewed by same 1942 (MCMXLII)
> Copyright by same 1932 (MCMXXXII)
> International Copyright Secured
>
> That was the order of copyrights and it appears the Deiro chart was copyrighted
> in 1932. One other appearance to validate that time period, is that my copy has
> the bass in treble clef. That change to bass clef took place after 1938.
I'm sure you're right on this. Funny that the original Deiro date wasn't
put on the chart. On another topic, when was Diero writing/performing.
Do you happen to know if there are any CDs available with him?
bvd...@uniserve.com
>
> << From: bvd...@uniserve.com
> Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002 11:39 PM
> Message-id: <3C6B3F98...@uniserve.com>
>
> WROTE:
>
> <<
> Not that I'm not impressed with the info either (I am), but I was
> looking at some music this PM. Nola, the Pietro Diero arrg. from 1953
> (if I'm reading roman numerals correctly MCMLIII?) and it still has the
> (R) and (*) notations.
>
> -- >>
>
> Being one of the "oldsters" on this NG, I pulled that chart from my filing
> cabinet and came up with this info:
>
> "NOLA" (#7490) Sam Fox Publishing Co. N.Y. (Felix Arndt) accordion arrangement
> by Pietro Deiro.
>
> Copyright 1915 by Felix Arndt (MCMXV)
> Copyright assignment to Sam Fox Publishing Co. N.Y 1916 (MCMXVI)
> Copyright renewed by same 1942 (MCMXLII)
> Copyright by same 1932 (MCMXXXII)
> International Copyright Secured
>
> That was the order of copyrights and it appears the Deiro chart was copyrighted
> in 1932. One other appearance to validate that time period, is that my copy has
> the bass in treble clef. That change to bass clef took place after 1938.
I'm sure you're right on this. Funny that the original Deiro date wasn't
put on the chart. On another topic, when was Diero writing/performing.
Do you happen to know if there are any CDs available with him?
--
Stephen Navoyosky
<< From: bvd...@uniserve.com
> Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002 11:39 PM
> Message-id: <3C6B3F98...@uniserve.com>
>
> WROTE:
<<
On another topic, when was Diero writing/performing.
Do you happen to know if there are any CDs available with him?
>>
Pietro stopped in the 30's and devoted the remainder time in Pietro Deiro
Headquarters in New York.
PD HDQ was the accordion teaching/AMPCO publishing/sales (Acme etc.)/service,
etc.
While he provided accordion arrangements in the beginning (Quatrocchioce,
Pagani, etc.) there has been discussion that, from this same period on, 'ghost
writing' began.
Alfred D'Auberge seems to be credited with doing all the extensive works like
the concertos, Paso Dobles, etc., and maybe lesser materials.
Pietro was a vaudevillian by realm and it is reasonable to assume
qualifications were not present to write such virtuosic materials.
On the other hand, Joe Biviano did have higher credentials and yet he had a
'ghost writer' by the name of Vic Leone and Gene von Hallberg, among others.
Frank Gaviani did also and if you saw his name and another, it was the
'another' that did the work and Frank placed his name after making a few
changes.
Now this is not meant to take away from these men but to show their involvement
in expediting the accordion industry's library in many categories.
All were genuinely busy in teaching-publishing-sales-recording, etc., and it
would prove to be too stressful to individually accommodate all those aspects
fluently.
Insofar as CD's by Pietro Deiro? I'm not aware of any. He died around 1953.
I have some of is 78's.
The greatest supplier of all accordion compositions and arrangements came
honestly from Eugene Ettore. Well over 350 to his credit and all furnished by
him.
Gene was not received by the USA for some reason and the bulk of his material
was published in the UK and Italy. Great material, and all should seek those
out.
Talk about being a busy man, Gene was a piano tuner by trade, symphony French
Horn player, ran an accordion studio, accordion recording artist, accordion
composer-arranger, and a string bass player.....all professsionally....and a
gentleman and a half.
He and Carmen Carrozza did duet work, too....arrangements by Gene.
A "little" bit more, but I'm in a generous mood today. ;-)
Steve Navoyosky
goodboy
> know about the (*).
>
that the register change was indicated there but at the player's own
discretion.
?????
Tom Sullivan
>Do you happen to know if there are any CDs available with him?
Have not seen any CDs - though I have converted some of his 78s (and others) to
CD for my own use.
Also, a DJ in Milwaukee sells tapes of all the old timers created from his 78s
and reels. He can be reached throught the Milw Club.
tom sullivan
~Dream~
> Do you happen to know if there are any CDs available with him?
try looking for 78 rpm records
Ciao Ventura
bvd...@uniserve.com
>
> Pietro stopped in the 30's and devoted the remainder time in Pietro Deiro
> Headquarters in New York.
> PD HDQ was the accordion teaching/AMPCO publishing/sales (Acme etc.)/service,
> etc.
<snip>
Thanks again, Steve. Hope you keep track of all this info you post and
put it up on a web site one day. Very valuable.
I checked around and found a cd "Real Ragtime" which has both Dieros on
it. The CD has favorable reviews and I've ordered. If others are
looking, check http://www.archeophone.com/index.html.
Now, to add to all this, what about Diero Jr. Did he perform/record or
was he just an arranger (or just a name)?
Ralph Stricker
"Stephen Navoyosky" <sna...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
>
> << From: bvd...@uniserve.com
> > Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002 11:39 PM
> > Message-id: <3C6B3F98...@uniserve.com>
> >
> > WROTE:
>
> <<
> On another topic, when was Diero writing/performing.
> Do you happen to know if there are any CDs available with him?
> >>
>
> Pietro stopped in the 30's and devoted the remainder time in Pietro Deiro
> Headquarters in New York.
> PD HDQ was the accordion teaching/AMPCO publishing/sales (Acme
etc.)/service,
> etc.
>
> While he provided accordion arrangements in the beginning (Quatrocchioce,
> Pagani, etc.) there has been discussion that, from this same period on,
'ghost
> writing' began.
> Alfred D'Auberge seems to be credited with doing all the extensive works
like
> the concertos, Paso Dobles, etc., and maybe lesser materials.
> Pietro was a vaudevillian by realm and it is reasonable to assume
> qualifications were not present to write such virtuosic materials.
Henry Klickman also did a lot of arranging for PD. He also did much of
Irving Berlin's work.
>
> The greatest supplier of all accordion compositions and arrangements came
> honestly from Eugene Ettore. Well over 350 to his credit and all furnished
by
> him.
> Gene was not received by the USA for some reason and the bulk of his
material
> was published in the UK and Italy. Great material, and all should seek
those
> out.
> Talk about being a busy man, Gene was a piano tuner by trade, symphony
French
> Horn player, ran an accordion studio, accordion recording artist,
accordion
> composer-arranger, and a string bass player.....all professsionally....and
a
> gentleman and a half.
> He and Carmen Carrozza did duet work, too....arrangements by Gene.
>
>
> A "little" bit more, but I'm in a generous mood today. ;-)
> Steve Navoyosky
Eugene Ettore had a music store and teaching studio approximately 15 mile
from my home. When I was 19 I had to make a decision between Eugene's studio
and Dr. Earl W. Brown. (Bill Evans teacher. I chose Doc Brown. I could not
have gone wrong if I had decided to study with Eugene Ettore. He was a
marvelous teacher and a fine man. It is a shame that he never got the credit
he deserved while he was alive.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Stephen Navoyosky
Date: Fri, Feb 15, 2002 8:00 PM
Message-id: <a4kb1l$3c6$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>
WROTE:
<<
Henry Klickman also did a lot of arranging for PD. He also did much of
Irving Berlin's work.
>>
Klickmann also wrote under the name of Roberto Carreno for obvious reasons.
<<
Eugene Ettore had a music store and teaching studio approximately 15 mile
from my home. When I was 19 I had to make a decision between Eugene's studio
and Dr. Earl W. Brown. (Bill Evans teacher. I chose Doc Brown. I could not
have gone wrong if I had decided to study with Eugene Ettore. He was a
marvelous teacher and a fine man. It is a shame that he never got the credit
he deserved while he was alive.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
>>
I have an accordion catalog of his and its amazing all that he provided.
He was only a diatonic writer but he produced some strong melodic lines.
He was one of two accordionist's I had always wanted to meet but didn't.
The other was John Gart, another giant as a composer and a player on par with
Magnante.
Gart studied with the famous Russian composer, Gliere
Steve Navoyosky
Stephen Navoyosky
Date: Fri, Feb 15, 2002 6:05 PM
Message-id: <3C6D9435...@uniserve.com>
ASKED:
<<
Now, to add to all this, what about Diero Jr. Did he perform/record or
was he just an arranger (or just a name)?
>>
"Lee" was Pietro's son.
Steve Navoyosky