Chomatic button layouts C-Griff, B-Griff, Finnish C-System
Johann Pascher
Finnish C - System
Bellows side
^
/ D F G# B D F G# B ....
/ C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
/ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
/ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
/ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
Outer edge of keyboard
C - System
Bellows side
^
/ C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
/ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
/ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
/ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
/ .. C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
Outer edge of keyboard
B - System
Bellows side
\ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
\ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
\ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
\ C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
\ D F G# B D F G# B ....
v
Outer edge of keyboard
(Possible variation but i don't know if it is in use any where)
Mirrored B - System
Bellows side
\ .. C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
\ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
\ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
\ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
\ C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
v
Outer edge of keyboard
Half step pitch increase form outside row to the next inner row on C -
Systems (See slash in the digram).
On B - Systems it is the other way pitch increase from inner row to the
outside row but also the fewing angle is mirrored! (See back slash in
the diagram).
The easiest way to see the difference is if black and withe buttons are
in use.
* Finnish C - system has tree withe buttons (B D F) next to each other
on row *2 and 5*.
* B - System also has tree withe buttons (B D F) next to each other but
on row *1 and 4*.
* C - System has tree withe buttions (B D F) next to each other only on
row *3*.
* Mirrored B - System also has tree withe buttons (B D F) next to each
other but on row *1 and 3*.
The easiest way to hear the difference if reed blocks are in correct
position.
If the note *C* is in the *first row*, it is *C - System*.
If the note *B* is in the *first row*, it is *B - System*.
If the note *B* is in the *second row*, it is *Fin C - System*.
If the note *C* is in the *second row*, it is *Mirrored B - System*.
Or one could also say Finnish 5 row System is a standard 3 row - System
with the inner two rows repeated - (doubled rows) on the other two rows.
Standard 5 row - System is a standard 3 row System with the outer two
rows repeated on the inner two rows.
But notice Key board mechanic is completely the same. Is just an other
way of looking at it.
The same can be done with B System and C System so you can get a
Mirrored B System and Finnish C System.
Also notice the difference only comes into existence if more as 3 rows
are present.
Two ways of coupling the doubled keyboard rows are possible and in use.
C and B System use different Keyboards.
C and Finnish C use the same Keyboard as B and mirrored B use the same
key board.
But the number of keys and the first note in each row may vary but not
the relative position of the notes and there respective keys to each
other, as it can on Piano like keyboards.
*The naming* is surly not the best, better would be if one would speak
of standard and mirrored key mechanic. But one must keep in mind that
first we had only the 3 row B and C system, and as log as no additional
rows war added all was clear with calling it B and C System.
And from the time on where additional rows war added it also was clear
that the logical order of notes had to be continued on the repeating
rows, what did lead to two different key mechanics on C and B 5 - row
Systems.
Johann
Johann Pascher
Forgot the Italian C- System.
Finnish C - System
Bellows side
^
/ D F G# B D F G# B ....
/ C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
/ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
/ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
/ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
Outer edge of keyboard
Italian C - System
Bellows side
^
/ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
/ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
/ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
/ .. C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
/ .. .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
Outer edge of keyboard
C - System
Bellows side
^
/ C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
/ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
/ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
/ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
/ .. C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
Outer edge of keyboard
B - System
Bellows side
\ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
\ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
\ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
\ C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
\ D F G# B D F G# B ....
v
Outer edge of keyboard
(Possible variation but i don't know if the are in use anywhere)
Mirrored B - System
Bellows side
\ .. C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
\ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
\ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
\ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
\ C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
v
Outer edge of keyboard
B - System 3rd version possible
Bellows side
\ .. .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
\ .. C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
\ .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
\ .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
\ C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
v
Outer edge of keyboard
Half step pitch increase form outside row to the next inner row on C -
Systems (See slash in the digram).
On B - Systems it is the other way pitch increase from inner row to the
outside row but also the fewing angle is mirrored! (See back slash in
the diagram).
The easiest way to see the difference is if black and withe buttons are
in use.
* Finnish C - system has tree withe buttons (B D F) next to each other
on row *2 and 5*.
* B - System also has tree withe buttons (B D F) next to each other but
on row *1 and 4*.
* Italian C - System also has tree withe buttons (B D F) next to each
other but on row *1 and 4*.
* C - System has tree withe buttons (B D F) next to each other only on
row *3*.
* Mirrored B - System also has tree withe buttons (B D F) next to each
other but on row *1 and 3*.
The easiest way to hear the difference if reed blocks are in correct
position.
If the note *C* is in the *first row*, it is *C - System*.
If the note *B* is in the *first row*, it is *B - System*.
If the note *B* is in the *second row*, it is *Fin C - System*.
If the note *C* is in the *second row*, it is *Mirrored B - System*.
Now with the Italian C-System added this explanation is a problem
because Italian C - System also has the B in the first row. and the C in
the second row.
Or one could also say Finnish 5 row System is a standard 3 row - System
with the inner two rows repeated - (doubled rows) on the outher two rows.
Standard 5 row - System is a standard 3 row System with the outer two
rows repeated on the inner two rows.
But notice Key board mechanic is completely the same. Is just an other
way of looking at it.
For Italian C -System nearly the same can be say but with the main tree
rows in the middle and one doubled to the inner row and one to the
outher row.
The same can be done with B System and C System so you can get also
three versions of B - Systems.
ftec
"Johann Pascher" <j.pa...@tele2.at> wrote in message
news:dUpZg.143$vb4...@nntpserver.swip.net...
>
>
> Finnish C - System
> Bellows side
> ^
> / D F G# B D F G# B ....
> / C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
> / C D# F# A C D# F# A ....
> / .. D F G# B D F G# B ....
> / .. C# E G A# C# E G A# ....
> Outer edge of keyboard
Johann, thats about right.
Below a picture on my site showing the buttons and intervals
in the Finnish C system. If you compare it with the picture
of the Ebay Dallape you can see it's the same. The two blacks
on the top of the 1st row are A# and C#. In the low portion of
my picture you can see how the intervals advance, same as in
the standard continental C system.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/slowsession/Accordion/Finn-C-griff.gif
Please also note that you can't get the Finnish C system from
the B system by just "looking these concepts from a different
point of view". In practise the angle of the rows makes the
big difference.
There are no mirrored B system instruments here that's for
sure, and again, if you compare the Ebay instrument with my
picture you can see from the button arrangement of the Dallape
that the row agles are as in the C system, not as they would be
in a "mirrored B system".
Risto
ftec
Again two blacks on the outer row top:
http://www.harmonikkahuolto.net/omb.html
Johann Pascher
Where is your webpage?
I agre with you!
I left some notes away like the A# C# on the Finn C- System, and did put
two dotes in stead to show where the pattens of the diminished chords start.
I also would think that there is only one version of B-Griff but we
never know what could be around by just changing the order off row.
Since for the C system there are 3 versions in use.
Johann
Johann Pascher
> Another view of a modern Finn-C-system instrument.
> Again two blacks on the outer row top:
>
> http://www.harmonikkahuolto.net/omb.html
>
>
as i did say one can start the key in each row with at a different
position, so better is to look at the pattern of the black and withe keys.
Johann
ftec
>
> as i did say one can start the key in each row with at a different
> position, so better is to look at the pattern of the black and withe keys.
> Johann
You are absolutely right, specially with accordions with fewer buttons.
Risto
alexrat
> > There are no mirrored B system instruments here that's for
> > sure, and again, if you compare the Ebay instrument with my
> > picture you can see from the button arrangement of the Dallape
> > that the row agles are as in the C system, not as they would be
> > in a "mirrored B system".
And the winner is......... Risto!
Do bring it back to my simplistic level, Which system iz the best?
Not that I'm switching, I don't think anyway.
Not on the right at least, but definitely on the left.
I'm sort of used to the Giulietti bass system which is Italian C then
(4 row version)? I only wish the bass went a little little bit lower
than C.
BOba