bellows construction
Noel Cragg
150mm). The paper folds are made of oak tagboard and the gussets are
chamois. The mitered frame which attaches to the accordion (not yet
built) is made out of 3/8" square basswood. Elmer's polyurethane glue
holds everthing together (probably not the best choice). The whole
thing will eventually be covered with some thin patterned cloth so it
looks a bit more stylish. I'll post a URL with some pictures when
it's completely assembled.
The bellows is coming together well enough (starting to glue on the
gussets now), but I'm not sure it's going to stand up to lots of use
because the oak tagboard seems too thin. (Maybe I won't think so when
it's glued up completely.) Anyone have any recommendations for the
ever-elusive "bellows card" mentioned in so many texts? Mounting mats
and other "art boards" don't work (tried a few of them) because they
are several layers of thinner paper glued together. When you fold the
stuff, it either rips a few of the layers or those layers separate
along the fold. I have a sheet of "railroad board" with which I'll
experiment in the next few weeks also -- looks like it might be
slightly better than the tagboard.
From the recent discussion of concertina bellows, it sounds like the
skived leather holds up extremely well. Does anyone think it worth it
to learn how to manufacture the stuff as opposed to just using
chamois? The latter is certainly expedient -- I buy it at the auto
parts store and cut it with an X-acto knife.
Also, instead of covering with cloth, one could also use skived
leather (as on a concertina bellows). I haven't yet examined the
construction of a nice leather concertina bellows, but I assume one
can use a slightly thinner card stock because the leather adds extra
rigidity.
Glue recommendations? I've got some liquid hide glue which I plan to
use if leather is involved. I found an old thread by Pete "Stormy"
Hyde wherein he recommended rabbit skin glue, but can't find that
stuff anywhere. Anyone have a mail-order source?
Thanks in advance.
DoN. Nichols
Noel Cragg <no...@red-bean.com> wrote:
>I've been building a small rectangular accordion bellows (200mm x
>150mm). The paper folds are made of oak tagboard and the gussets are
>chamois. The mitered frame which attaches to the accordion (not yet
>built) is made out of 3/8" square basswood. Elmer's polyurethane glue
>holds everthing together (probably not the best choice). The whole
>thing will eventually be covered with some thin patterned cloth so it
>looks a bit more stylish. I'll post a URL with some pictures when
>it's completely assembled.
Hmm ... I'm not familiar with your "oak tagboard", but the
chamois seems like a reasonable choice for the gussets.
>The bellows is coming together well enough (starting to glue on the
>gussets now), but I'm not sure it's going to stand up to lots of use
>because the oak tagboard seems too thin. (Maybe I won't think so when
>it's glued up completely.) Anyone have any recommendations for the
>ever-elusive "bellows card" mentioned in so many texts? Mounting mats
>and other "art boards" don't work (tried a few of them) because they
>are several layers of thinner paper glued together. When you fold the
>stuff, it either rips a few of the layers or those layers separate
>along the fold. I have a sheet of "railroad board" with which I'll
>experiment in the next few weeks also -- looks like it might be
>slightly better than the tagboard.
>
>From the recent discussion of concertina bellows, it sounds like the
>skived leather holds up extremely well. Does anyone think it worth it
>to learn how to manufacture the stuff as opposed to just using
>chamois? The latter is certainly expedient -- I buy it at the auto
>parts store and cut it with an X-acto knife.
I have no experience with the skiving process -- I've just
purchased pre-skived leather (left over from making suede) from the
local leather goods place -- now out of business.
>Also, instead of covering with cloth, one could also use skived
>leather (as on a concertina bellows). I haven't yet examined the
>construction of a nice leather concertina bellows, but I assume one
>can use a slightly thinner card stock because the leather adds extra
>rigidity.
Actually -- an English construction concertina uses *thicker*
posterboard for the panels than what appears to be used for accordion
bellows folds -- because it does not have to be folded at all. Each
panel is a separate trapezoidal piece, and the hinges and gussets are
then glued in place to make the full bellows. The inner hinges are of
varying materials (sometimes leather, sometimes the adhesive backed
cloth used for book repair hinges, sometimes other less identifiable
things), while the outer hinges are thin leather. The skiving in
question in making a bellows involves the careful tapering of the edges
of the leather to eliminate visible steps in the thickness as one
transitions from one layer to another.
>Glue recommendations? I've got some liquid hide glue which I plan to
>use if leather is involved. I found an old thread by Pete "Stormy"
>Hyde wherein he recommended rabbit skin glue, but can't find that
>stuff anywhere. Anyone have a mail-order source?
Rabbit-skin glue is used (so I understand) as a sizing for art
canvas, so an art store would be a good place to check. Its advantage
over hide glue is that it remains flexible when dry, while the hide glue
is much more brittle.
Also -- I strongly recommend that you dye the leather *before*
you glue it in place, because some glues can soak through enough to make
it difficult to get an even color from the dye. However, you can best
put on a finish coat (not dye) after it is all glued up.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Ike Milligan
which can be obtained, if at all, in varying thicknesses.
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"Noel Cragg" <no...@red-bean.com> wrote in message
news:xybu1yd...@innbox.cnet.com...
Ike Milligan
dealer if you can get them to order it from Italy, but you must specify the
depth of the folds, etc.
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"Ike Milligan" <accord...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9ni85v$5gi$2...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
Richard Morse
>
> I've been building a small rectangular accordion bellows (200mm x
> 150mm). The paper folds are made of oak tagboard and the gussets are
> holds everthing together (probably not the best choice).
>
> gussets now), but I'm not sure it's going to stand up to lots of use
> because the oak tagboard seems too thin. (Maybe I won't think so when
> it's glued up completely.) Anyone have any recommendations for the
> ever-elusive "bellows card" mentioned in so many texts?
Pretty much all the accordion maker use "trench board" for the bellows
card. It comes in various widths, lengths, and depths of folds. A
supplier here in North America is FRM (as well as bellows corners,
bellows tape, and many other accordion parts).
FRM Enterprises
7000 Park Ave. suite 202
Montreal Quebec Canada H3N1X1
Phone: 514 274-9793
This stuff is designed and made for this use and is far superior to
almost anything else out there anywhere.
> From the recent discussion of concertina bellows, it sounds like the
> skived leather holds up extremely well. Does anyone think it worth it
> to learn how to manufacture the stuff as opposed to just using
> chamois?
Only CERTAIN types of leather work well. The far majority DO NOT.
Subject leathers have issues with air tightness, suppleness, durability,
thickness, workability, color, and finish treatment. AND - availability
and cost.
Chamois is usually a pig split. Being that the skin surface has been
removed I wonder about it's air tightness. It is also highly chemically
treated, an usually mechanically treated for suppleness. I wonder if
this would limit it's durability.
> Also, instead of covering with cloth, one could also use skived
> leather (as on a concertina bellows).
There are many parts to a concertina bellows and several types of
leather that are used: the hinges warrant suppleness and durability, the
gussets for air tightness, thinness, and durability (surprisingly -
suppleness is not quite as high an issue here), the top runs for
durability, and the butterflies (the part that covers the card) for
thinness and esthetics. Sometimes these butterflies are just decorative
papers. Quite often they are NOT leather at all but a leatherlike paper
product.
One of the most imperative things about the choice of leathers is how
they're surfaced because some modern ways of treating leathers will not
enable many glues to perform well!
There are 2 basic skiving parameters: thickness skiving (the entire
piece gets thinner) and edge skiving (to taper a piece to nothingness).
Both take considerable skill and the right equipment. The right leather
helps this process considerably, such as starch treated ones.
> I haven't yet examined the
> construction of a nice leather concertina bellows, but I assume one
> can use a slightly thinner card stock because the leather adds extra
> rigidity.
Concertina card is inherently stiffer/thickness than accordion card. The
decorative coverings add little to it's stiffness.
> Glue recommendations? I've got some liquid hide glue which I plan to
> use if leather is involved. I found an old thread by Pete "Stormy"
> Hyde wherein he recommended rabbit skin glue, but can't find that
> stuff anywhere. Anyone have a mail-order source?
Please do NOT use liquid hide glue. It is too brittle and has too long
an open time. Rabbit is traditional and still used by some folk. There
are several places that sell it, usually by the pound, in cake. You must
choose what percentage of soap and rosin in it's composition from what
they have in stock or have them make up a special mixture for you
(determines it's working temperature, tack and open times).
We've used rabbit with good results though it is an involved process.
For our production concertina bellows and for any accordion bellows -
we've been using, and recommend - a PVA with a high amount of
plasticizers. The type that bookbinders use is particularly good stuff
that does not have to be mixed up or pot heated, but does have a good
open time, dries clear, bonds strongly and is reasonably flexible.
-- Rich --
THE BUTTON BOX
http://www.buttonbox.com
Noel Cragg
> Hmm ... I'm not familiar with your "oak tagboard",
It looks very similar to the material out of which manila folders are
made, but slightly thicker and more rigid. (I remember it only as
"tagboard" from my childhood -- it seems you couldn't escape it for
elementary-school art projects.)
> (English construction) ... Each panel is a separate trapezoidal
> piece, and the hinges and gussets are then glued in place to make
> the full bellows. The inner hinges are of varying materials
> (sometimes leather, sometimes the adhesive backed cloth used for
> book repair hinges, sometimes other less identifiable things), while
> the outer hinges are thin leather.
Very interesting. It seems to me that such a bellows would be easier
to construct than the folded-card style, as well as being quite a bit
more durable. Do you (or others) know of anyone who has used this
construction method on anything other than a concertina bellows? Am I
wrong about the difficulty? Pleats seem harder (having done them)
than glued joints where one can make small corrections along the
entire length of the bellows.
> Rabbit-skin glue is used (so I understand) as a sizing for art
> canvas, so an art store would be a good place to check.
Good suggestion. I've called a few local art stores, one of which
said they could special-order the stuff. I figure I'll be making
several test bellows before I get the hang of things, so I'll give it
a try on the next bellows I fabricate.
Noel Cragg
> bellows card. It comes in various widths, lengths, and depths of
> folds. A supplier here in North America is FRM (as well as bellows
> corners, bellows tape, and many other accordion parts).
Thanks for the reference. I called Frank earlier today -- a very
helpful fellow. He's sending me a list of products and prices. I'm
tempted to order some pre-folded board from him, too, just so I can
compare the folds I make to the professional job.
(ASIDE: In my first attempt at folding, I simply measured in regular
increments along a rectangular piece of board, connected the dots, and
folded. Yow! The folds didn't line up at all -- they zigged and
zagged all over the place. During my second attempt, I measured after
each fold, making sure to line up the outside edges. The inside edge
isn't perfectly straight, but oh, well. I've been using a long steel
ruler as the edge against which I make the folds. I recently picked
up the Fischer books that Ike Milligan mentioned; Fischer recommends
building a pleating tool. I'll try that next time.)
> This stuff is designed and made for this use and is far superior to
> almost anything else out there anywhere.
Any idea what makes it so much better than other papers? Not having
seen it, I can only guess it has something to do with grain direction,
layers (or lack thereof), and variety of wood pulp (tensile strength
versus flexibility).
> Only CERTAIN types of leather work well. The far majority DO NOT.
> ... There are many parts to a concertina bellows and several types
> of leather that are used...
I've never done any significant leatherworking, so I don't have any
intuit for it at all. Sounds like I should stick to building folded
card bellows' for a while.
I don't want to waste the opportunity to receive advice from a
reputable source, though: given the many types and characteristics of
leather you listed, what properties do you think are most important
for gussets on accordion bellows? Any recommendations for someone
like me who will be poking around leather supply shops/catalogs? (I
will order some from a good accordion parts store, too, to see what
the "real thing" is like.)
> Please do NOT use liquid hide glue. It is too brittle and has too
> long an open time.
I would have thought the open time would work in your favor when
working with leather. The ability to stick and slide the materials
sounds like it would be desirable to me (granted I've got untrained
and inexact fingers for this kind of work as yet).
> ...we've been using, and recommend - a PVA with a high amount of
> plasticizers. The type that bookbinders use is particularly good
> stuff that does not have to be mixed up or pot heated, but does have
> a good open time, dries clear, bonds strongly and is reasonably
> flexible.
Do you have a favorite brand? There are a dizzying number of such
adhesives around, so I wouldn't have much idea where to start!
Thanks in advance for all of the advice.
Ike Milligan
instructions on how to make a folding tool he calls a "pleading staff" (sic)
should read pleating to fold cardboard. http://1accordion.net/books.htm
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www.1accordion.net
"Noel Cragg" <no...@red-bean.com> wrote in message
news:xybd74y...@innbox.cnet.com...
DoN. Nichols
Noel Cragg <no...@red-bean.com> wrote:
>dnic...@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) writes:
>> Hmm ... I'm not familiar with your "oak tagboard",
>
>It looks very similar to the material out of which manila folders are
>made, but slightly thicker and more rigid. (I remember it only as
>"tagboard" from my childhood -- it seems you couldn't escape it for
>elementary-school art projects.)
O.K. Probably came into common use in schools after I got out.
>> (English construction) ... Each panel is a separate trapezoidal
>> piece, and the hinges and gussets are then glued in place to make
>> the full bellows. The inner hinges are of varying materials
>> (sometimes leather, sometimes the adhesive backed cloth used for
>> book repair hinges, sometimes other less identifiable things), while
>> the outer hinges are thin leather.
>
>Very interesting. It seems to me that such a bellows would be easier
>to construct than the folded-card style, as well as being quite a bit
>more durable.
Certainly more durable over long periods, but it takes a lot
more detail work to build one. Being able to pre-fold the cardboard
makes all the panels on a side of the bellows in a single pass, so it
costs less to make and use.
> Do you (or others) know of anyone who has used this
>construction method on anything other than a concertina bellows?
I don't -- but I suspect that someone has tried it. I also
suspect that the cost was too high.
> Am I
>wrong about the difficulty? Pleats seem harder (having done them)
>than glued joints where one can make small corrections along the
>entire length of the bellows.
The pleats are (in production) done by something resembling a
cross between a old roller-style clothes wringer and a pair of long
meshed gears. This provides a repeatable pleat, after which the
assembly is compressed, and a special shear used to cut the bevel on the
ends.
Noel Cragg
> Only CERTAIN types of leather work well. The far majority DO NOT.
> Subject leathers have issues with air tightness, suppleness, durability,
> thickness, workability, color, and finish treatment. AND - availability
> and cost.
I've just purchased and am replacing the gussets on an old junker
bellows using "pleather" -- the vinyl leather-substitute you can get
at fabric stores. It's supple and airtight; we'll see how it holds up
over the long term.
Chris Algar from Barleycorn Concertinas has recommended that I contact
his bellows repairer. Evidently that gentleman has a good source for
all of the kinds of leather used on a concertina bellows. I'll let
the group know what I find out.
Richard Morse <rmo...@valinet.com> writes [types of glue]:
> For our production concertina bellows and for any accordion bellows -
> we've been using, and recommend - a PVA with a high amount of
> plasticizers. The type that bookbinders use is particularly good stuff
> that does not have to be mixed up or pot heated, but does have a good
> open time, dries clear, bonds strongly and is reasonably flexible.
I talked with a few bookbinder friends. They both recommended a PVA
called "Jade 403". They both use it for binding spines of books. It
holds well, has a good open time, and remains quite flexible after
drying.
I also asked about removing old glue. Neither had any experience with
steaming (the heat and moisture would damage the book pages), but said
that the PVA mentioned above would need to be removed using a knife,
even if softened beforehand with a lot of water. Anyone have any
suggestions on this topic? (I have a few old bellows on which to
practice...)
Howard Mitchell
organs.
http://www.russels.com/homepage.htm
and that Hewits have skiver leather in a number of varieties.
http://www.hewit.com/
Hewits also have an on-line catalogue.
and both have glues etc.
Does anyone have knowledge of theses products and their suitability for
concertina bellows.
Howard Mitchell
"Noel Cragg" <no...@cnet.com> wrote in message
news:xyb3d4q...@innbox.cnet.com...
allen watsky
glued using PVA. A bad choice for a neck joint. The joint had failed due to
glue creep(not a problem for bellows,no constant tension). Its vertue seems
to be flexibility and good grab, adhision. Used the usual method, steam
heat. Came apart in seconds. Dry heat may be helpful. Still needed scraping
though. Its not exactly water proof, just resistant. Any one got the low
down on PVA.? Industrial guidelines, uses, that sort of thing.
Ike Milligan
Jade 403 will stick your bellows together. Regular PVA like elmer's or I
prefer Wellbond is better.Hot hide glue is very good. Artificial leather
will wear out quickly, unless you don't play the instrument. Glove leather
is very good like for ladies gloves. Find some old
gloves from a thrift shop and cut them up. Leather diamonds are best cut not
to stretch in the long direction. Leather diamonds can be bought from
accordion parts suppliers pre-cut.
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