tuneing of Anglo concertina
DoN. Nichols
Chris vonderBorch <mg...@es.flinders.edu.au> wrote:
>My "Anglo" concertina is a C/G, with the usual row of "accidentals". It
>was tuned so that the chords in the C row and those in the G row
>respectively sound in tune and "pleasant".(tuned to the "just"scale, if I
>recall the correct terminology)...Apparently some players like it that way.
>Of course, such tuneing would go awry if one used lots of cross-keying, a
>mode that I am not good enough to do in large measure! So I assume many
>players would have their concertinas tuned the alternative way , to the
>"evenly tempered " scale.
>I am reasonably certain that my English concertina is tuned to the "evenly
>tempered scale".
>Does anyone have definitive knowledge on the above matters?
Well ... it really depends on how old your English is. The really
early ones (usually brass reeded) are "just tuned", with the greatest
difference from the chromatic tuning in the D#/Eb pair. If the two sound
pretty much in tune with each other, it is chromatic tuning (even
temperment). If they sound *terrible* when sounded together, it is "just
tuned", and those two are respectively about 7.5 cents away from the
chromatic tuning value -- in opposite directions, so you wind up with
something pretty terrible (15 cents error) when sounded together.
As for Anglos -- I really don't know for sure. I suspect that most
instruments with more than 20 keys would have chromatic tuning, but 20 key
instruments *might* (at the original purchaser's whim) be purchased tuned
for either preference.
Squeeze On,
DoN.
--
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Joseph Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
> As for Anglos -- I really don't know for sure. I suspect that most
> instruments with more than 20 keys would have chromatic tuning
I was told that at least some Anglos were originally tuned to just
intonation, or something closer to it, with separate D#/Eb keys in the
accidentals row.
------------------------------------------------------
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
March 13th at Walkabout Clearwater: TOM CHAPIN!
http://www.lovesong.com/walkabout/coffeehouse.html
Chris vonderBorch
was tuned so that the chords in the C row and those in the G row
respectively sound in tune and "pleasant".(tuned to the "just"scale, if I
recall the correct terminology)...Apparently some players like it that way.
Of course, such tuneing would go awry if one used lots of cross-keying, a
mode that I am not good enough to do in large measure! So I assume many
players would have their concertinas tuned the alternative way , to the
"evenly tempered " scale.
I am reasonably certain that my English concertina is tuned to the "evenly
tempered scale".
Does anyone have definitive knowledge on the above matters?
Chris vonderBorch
ross schlabach
Joseph Kesselman, yclept Keshlam <kes...@ibm.net> wrote in article
<36F46707...@ibm.net>...
>
> I was told that at least some Anglos were originally tuned to just
> intonation, or something closer to it, with separate D#/Eb keys in the
> accidentals row.
>
>
I have a 28 button Jeffries which has always been tuned in uneven
temperment. Though this has the potential to cause problems in cross row
fingerings such as the key of D, in practice it presents no problem unless
you attempt cross row chord involving certain notes. What it does give you
is fabulously sweet single row chords that can't be imagined in even
tempered instruments. Some tuners like Paul Groff are able to rework the
uneven temperment to minimize any clashing of notes between rows without
losing the sweetness of the chords.
Also, some of the Jeffries with lots of buttons (38 or more) actually had
separate D# and Eb buttons as originally made. Since they were all built
before the modern day concert pitch came along (in 1938), if they were
retuned to concert pitch these two buttons posed a problem. Which do you
tune to Eb (D#) and what do you do with the other button? This accounts for
some of the strange note combinations on outer rows of these larger
instruments.
Use of uneven temperment as I understand it is more suitable for diatonic
instruments which would minimize the possibility of clashes, so I would
guess that there would have been no advantage to using uneven temperment on
English models since they are fully chromatic and not designed for play in
a specific key as are anglos. This is only my speculation, though.
In any case, enjoy it and squeeze on.............
Ross
DoN. Nichols
ross schlabach <r...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>Joseph Kesselman, yclept Keshlam <kes...@ibm.net> wrote in article
><36F46707...@ibm.net>...
>>
>> I was told that at least some Anglos were originally tuned to just
>> intonation, or something closer to it, with separate D#/Eb keys in the
>> accidentals row.
[ ... ]
>Use of uneven temperment as I understand it is more suitable for diatonic
>instruments which would minimize the possibility of clashes, so I would
>guess that there would have been no advantage to using uneven temperment on
>English models since they are fully chromatic and not designed for play in
>a specific key as are anglos. This is only my speculation, though.
Well ... I have seen (and even own) English-system instruments with
"just" temperment. It *does* provide amazingly pure chords -- in *some*
keys. The farther you get from the key of 'C', the worse it starts to
sound. Thus -- just temperment is *not* really a good choice for the EC. I
once did tune one for a friend who wanted it -- until he started trying it
in other keys. :-) We wound up doing a little compromise tuning. the D#/Eb
pair were the worst offenders, and I wound up tuning them each to half-way
between the just and the chromatic pitches, which wound up being fairly
satisfactory from his point of view.
>In any case, enjoy it and squeeze on.............
Amen!
Ian White
>I have a 28 button Jeffries which has always been tuned in uneven
>temperment. Though this has the potential to cause problems in cross row
>fingerings such as the key of D, in practice it presents no problem unless
>you attempt cross row chord involving certain notes. What it does give you
>is fabulously sweet single row chords that can't be imagined in even
>tempered instruments. Some tuners like Paul Groff are able to rework the
>uneven temperment to minimize any clashing of notes between rows without
>losing the sweetness of the chords.
>
There is at least one temperament that has been optimized for
instruments tuned in two scales a fifth apart. My wife uses it on a two-
key diatonic autoharp. Being able to tune their instruments very
readily, diatonic autoharp players have experimented a lot with
different tunings. Modern electronic tuners such as the Korg MT-120
allow them to measure precise offsets from equal temperament, and
reproduce them at will.
The autoharp obviously uses the same strings for both keys (except for
one string that belongs to the "other" key and can be locked out) but
the same temperament scheme should work with to two-row diatonic
squeezeboxes.
The optimized temperament is a modified Silberman(n?), and based on a
C/F instrument which is "zeroed" to standard A=440 tuning at C, the
offsets from equal temperament are:
F = +3 cents
G = -3
A = -9
Bb = +6 (for F, locked out for C)
B = -15 (for C, locked out for F)
C = 0
D = -6
E = -12
Transpose for other pair of keys. Some of the offsets look enormous -
especially A, B and E - but even to my tin ear it does work. The
instrument really does sound better than equal temperament, over a very
wide range of chords in either key, and there are no violent clashes.
I'm not qualified to comment on the merits or disadvantages of the
various temperaments, except to state the obvious: the instrument sounds
best when played solo, and "not quite right" in a band where other
instruments are tuned to equal temperament.
For further details, search the autoharp archives at www.autoharp.org
and look for "Bob Lewis" - he's the expert.
Ian White
Abingdon, England