Reed qualities
Accoal
following to the questions and requests we got from several fellows
concerning reeds , I will post some informations and facts about the present
situation .
The first thing to mention is that no italian accordion manufacturing
company has anymore a reedmaker inside , and basicly this is a good thing .
Years ago , when the accordion was much more popular and thousands of
instruments were exported every month from Castelfidardo many producers (not
all !) were absolutely independent and made all parts for the instruments
inside tha factory , including reeds .
At that time there were factories employing up to 1.600 workers , now the
biggest factories in Castelfidardo have max. 30 workers employed and no-one
is making anymore reeds inside the factories .
The same thing happened with the bellows also .
REED QUALITY THROUGH THE YEARS
There are different opinions about this , but the fact is that there used to
be many special masters making reeds that had a very special sound caracter
, one of these was Mr. Elio Guidobaldi (if you should find an instrument
with his reeds , get it !!!!)
In general there was much more skilled people , but the limits were given by
the quality of the raw material which was not allways the same , and the
working conditions of the masters .
Most of the old reedmakers were delivering good ot top quality depending on
how much under pressure they were .
Today the quality is more equal , in general .
REED MAKERS
There are 5 main reed supplyers :
ANTONELLI (SIVA) : Full range off reeds , from machine made to top quality
hand made reeds (www.accordions.com/siva)
ARTIGIANA VOCI : Full range off reeds , from machine made to top quality
hand made reeds
CAGNONI : Full range off reeds , from machine made to top quality hand made
reeds
SALPA : Full range off reeds , from machine made to top quality hand made
reeds
BINCI : Specialized in the production of diatonic reeds , they also supply
reeds made with a brass plate (very heavy , but gives a special sound on
diatonic instruments) .
Each of the above mentioned reed supplyers is normally producing all the
parts for the reeds (the plate , the reed or tongue , etc.) and has several
Teams of reedmakers that are mounting (assembling) the reeds , each Team is
specialized in a certain type of quality or reed (treble reeds , bass reeds
, piccolo reeds , etc.) .
For this reason we consider that it is a positive thing that accordion
manufacturers can buy and get reed from external supplyers :
- There is a good choice
- The quality is good because they have several Teams and each one is highly
skilled for a certain type of reeds
- Reed supplyers cann afford all the costs related to quality improvements ,
training of new people , and most of all they invest money in the stock for
finished products and materials . All this would be too heavy for accordion
manufacturing firms nowadays ...
TYPES OF REEDS
There are 3 main reed qualities made in Italy :
MACHINE REEDS : This is the bottom line which is used mainly for student
instruments (usually very small instruments) and by some low-cost accordion
manufacturers even on full size instruments .
Some types of machine made reeds are not really good but are extremely cheap
, but it is possible to get also very good types which give very good
results .
TIPO A MANO (HANDFINISHED) REEDS : Here you can find the biggest range of
offer and the quality goes to normal (basicly like a good machine made
reeds) to top qualities that can be exactly as good as an average hand made
reed .
Handfinished reeds are nowadays a very good option compared even to some
type of hand made reeds because they offer the best price/quality
relationship .
Unfortunately many people still throw a lot of money away by buying
accordions with bad hand made reeds (paying hefty prices for the "hand made"
reed option) at some manufacturers , only because of a psycologic
satisfaction (they're so happy when they say : "HAND MADE") .
A MANO (HAND MADE) REEDS : This is the professional product and in here
there start to be quite big differences also between one producer and the
other .
Having a hand made reed doesn't mean to have a top quality reed .
One of the particular features of a hand made reed is the absolute precision
and the very small tolerance between the reedplate opening and the reed (or
tongue) .
Please note that the "art" needed to make a good hand made reed is to have
the right tolerance as there is a limit (and good reedmakers know it) ; if
the tolerance is close to zero , the risk is that the reed will touch the
top (or even the side) of the reedplate opening when the instrument is
played and the temperature has changed .
HOW MANUFACTURERS CHOOSE REEDS AND CHECK THE QUALITIES
Some of you have asked me how we decide where and what to buy and also how
we do check quality .
First of all it is important to say that the most skilled people when it
comes to choose and to check reeds are the TUNERS and unfortunately not all
producers have a tuner inside (and believe me the freelance tuners available
on the marker can be dangerous) .
Each producer has his own internal "rules" and tastes and is therefore
opting for some manufacturer and some specific quality for each type of
accordion .
All the above mentioned things are FACTS , the following things are related
to our personal experience so please don't consider them as 100% objective ,
but just as the results of my own experience .
In general we prefer to invest a little more money on the reeds and on the
reedwork than most of the other producers , this is simply because the
results of this small amount of extra money spent is very evident for a
player and is determinating the whole quality of the instrument .
The reeds in an accordion are more or less the same as the engine for a car
, it's useless to have a Ferrari when you then put a normal engine inside
just to save some money .
One of the things we pay attention for is to have different sizes of reeds
so that we can use for each model the type and size of reeds that is giving
the best results .
Of course this is costing a little more because the supplyer is delivering
customized reeds and in many sizes instead of a standard production .
Depending on the model , the customer , and the destination area we ask
also to supplyers to customize the manufacturing process of the reed
(tongue) in order to have a louder sound , a more prompt reed , etc.
The needs of a jazz player are quite different from a classical music
player or a folk music player .
To choose the right kind of reeds for a certain instrument is not that easy
, usually the best results can be had with a deep cooperation between
professional players + accordion manufacturers (the tuner) + the reed maker
.
To check the quality of the reeds we have our tuner checking them out
imediatly (visual and "mechanical" check) when they arrive , before handing
them out for the pre-tuning .
FINAL CONSIDERATIONS
One of the F.A.Q. is "how should we choose the type of reeds ?" , and it is
difficult to give a simple answer .
Every player has his very own taste and needs .
If somebody suggests you some kind of reeds or a specific reedmaker it might
often not be anough to reach a good result : the reeds might be very good ,
but then the reedwork could be done with average quality and the result can
be average .
The reedwork (pre-tuning , mounting , waxing and tuning) is able to enhance
the good qualities of a set of reeds or also to "destroy" them .
The only good way for you to judge is to test the instrument which is the
final result m there is no other way (besides being an expert in reeds +
reedwork + knowing th results in a certain accordion ...) .
One of the biggest experts for reeds and tuning I know is Mr. Torben
Ejersbo from Denmark (the name of his workshop is ProCordion ,
www.procordion.dk , in case some of you should have some very specific
question about reeds or tuning , I am sure he could help you .
I hope I could help some of you about this matter in spite of my poor
english (sorry for the mistakes !!) .
Have a nice day !
Alessio
ZERO SETTE Accordion Factory
60022 Castelfidardo - ITALY
Fax : +39 071 7822845
E-mail : ze...@tiscalinet.it
Bruce Metras
It is most informative to read your contributions to this newsgroup.
btw.....I didn't recall seeing any "mistakes"....:-))
Bruce (San Francisco)
> From: "Accoal" <ze...@tiscalinet.it>
> Organization: Tiscali Spa
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.squeezebox
> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:06:25 +0100
> Subject: Reed qualities
>
> Dear Friends ,
> following to the questions and requests we got from several fellows
> concerning reeds , I will post some informations and facts about the present
> situation .
(snip large portion of wonderful information)
Mike Maddux
Mike Maddux
In article <9stnfj$qu6$1...@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>, "Accoal" says...
Paul Kriwaczek
Paul
--
Paul Kriwaczek
pa...@kriv.demon.co.uk
http://www.kriv.demon.co.uk
"Accoal" <ze...@tiscalinet.it> wrote in message
news:9stnfj$qu6$1...@lacerta.tiscalinet.it...
> Dear Friends ,
> following to the questions and requests we got from several fellows
> concerning reeds , I will post some informations and facts about the
present
> situation .
[snipped]
Charlie Ball
>hanks Alessio for your extremely interesting and useful article.
I did not receive the post containing this article. Was it an off-list post?
Is there some way I can see it?
Charlie Ball
Boxma...@aol.com
Macromed5
>
> I did not receive the post containing this article. Was it an off-list
> post? Is there some way I can see it?
I haven't checked for that particular message, but you can search the newsgroup
side of things here:
http://groups.google.com/
Tips:
-- The "advanced search" page lets you specify a newsgroup and date range.
-- Clicking "view thread" in the results lets you see all messages in one
page. (This is one reason why trimming your quotes is so important... things
get hard to read if you include all of the previous reply!)
Regards,
John Dowdell
Monty [IIIIIII]
> following to the questions and requests we got from several fellows
> concerning reeds , I will post some informations and facts about the
present
> situation .
> Alessio
>
>
> ZERO SETTE Accordion Factory
> 60022 Castelfidardo - ITALY
> Fax : +39 071 7822845
> E-mail : ze...@tiscalinet.it
>
However I remain curious about one aspect of "hand made". One
interpretation of this term might be like the medieval sword maker hammering
iron and various alloys after heating them in a bed of glowing charcoal. I
doubt today's reed makers produce their own alloys of steel or brass, but at
what state is the metal when they begin, and how much do they do to it
besides fitting, filing, shaping and such?
Best Regards
Monty
Matej Barbo
I have a question about Adelchi Severini reeds. Could you check this thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.makers.squeezebox/jcZiA-yiBOs
Thank you for any information.
Matej
Excelsior960
i would like to add the following.
particularly where it concerns "Hand made reeds" and the "magic qualities"
they hold (in peoples minds)
from my observations and shopwork, there is clearly a huge difference between
what we had PRIOR to World War 2 vs: AFTER regarding accordion reeds.
first and foremost: we need to bear in mind MOST OF THE REEDMAKERS were
DEAD after WW2, and their knowledge and skill LOST, as well as the chance for them to TRAIN and TEACH a new generation.
secondly: ALL THE RAW MATERIALS were re-purposed for the War effort...
much of Manufacturing of raw materials changed (forever)... many of the metal
machines and tools in Italy were confiscated and melted down for Bombs etc.
thirdly: the Empiric ability of any specific manufacturer to adjust sizes
and shapes of reeds to better suit the specific designs of their
accordions (or specific intended purpose), which was part and parcel of
their intense drive to distinguish their products from other brands,
was almost entirely snuffed out by the War.
fourth: reedmaking in America became truly rare and therefore no longer
DROVE INNOVATION and QUALITY worldwide, which it did prior to WW2, when
the best handmade reeds were made in America
the period from the end of the "Art case/Vaudeville" accordion era into
the "black, professional style modern design" that ran roughly from the mid 1930's through 1940 or so is, IMHO, where you will find the truly amazing
and varied sets of reeds and innerworkings of the Professional Accordion.
after WW2, while there are some fine examples of instrument scale design and
reed combinations, they are nevertheless much more "average" in their
"sameness" from one brand to the next... which is why those which truly
"stood out" from the rest became legendary.
so few being able to experiment, or invest in failed attempts at perfection...
aside from Gola and Scandalli i don't know if anyone else EVER succeed in
a viable "stainless steel" reed tongue (and put it into production)
and please, pay attention... Giulietti sourced Accordion shells from
quite a few manufacturers over the Decades prior to their final arrangement
with Zero... since all he really designed physically were the front grilles,
what made his accordions so unique?
the reedwork!
and once reedmaking at Giulietti essentially ceased, and they switched
to "finishing" Italian made reedsets (as did, for example, Petosa) then
did you not notice the difference? can't you tell when you have a
PanAccordion in your hands that was entirely MADE IN America vs: it's
look-alike that was sourced in Italy?
and finally, the fact is Excelsior spent their manufacturing efforts
once located entirely in Italy to FINISH the reeds, allowing their own precision
machines to make the perfect cuts and set the damn rivets... when
MOST OF THE Ebay sellers claim "Hand Made Reeds" they are bold faced Liars.
just as, apparently, according to Internet rumour, innuendo, and old
wives tales everyone selling on eBay now claims pretty much every
piece of crap SEM Cordovox Accordion to have come out of the Scandalli
factory, and with (of course) those magical "Scandalli Hand made Reeds"
believe me, Scandalli had nothing for Cordovox but envy, even hate, at
having been up-staged again by the Americans after Italy had finally
achieved the upper hand as the driver of Worldwide Accordion innovation
and quality... it was DECADES before they caught back up technologically
and CMI had ceased to exist as the owner of the Cordovox Brand and
rights by the time sourcing of the Bodies would change... what, do you
really think the recessed Gasket style was only done in one factory?
when you consider all the eBay claims for Hand Made Reeds, then clearly
every human reedmaker left alive after WW2 did nothing but
make reeds one by one until the day they died and sell them for next
to nothing to the accordion school brands
if you want a really awesome set of reeds, find yourself a "00"
or something from an Italian factory in direct and serious competition
from before WW2... if the Accordion is shot, re-work the reeds
and put them into something modern
ciao
Ventura
Ike milligan
news:94170d8d-2e6b-40cc...@googlegroups.com:
with really good reeds. They have no idea until they experience good reeds
in a playable accordion, what an accordion is really supposed to feel like.
like you imply, the only way to find really good hand-made reeds is to find
an old accordion with them in it, and most old accordions are in terrible
shape mechanically, and most don't even have top-notch reeds anyway.
I was fortunate to live in a place where many old-style accordions were
still available and playable, and was able to experience the difference,
and this has driven me to search for the El Dorado of a good accordion by
restoring old accordions.