tutorial for chromatic accordion
Mike Mason
keyboard). I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract for me
as my only guide. In the book I'd like to find, it would have a couple of
"e-z to play" tunes every couple of pages so I can feel like I'm making
progress.
I live in the USA and am having trouble ordering from the UK, the one shop I
found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card, whatever that
is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
mike
allen watsky
"Mike Mason" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:mTXdd.3936$5i...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
enough.
Len Killick
There's a french book called L'Accodeon Boutons Par l'image - part of a
series for all accordeon instruments.
Although the text is in French, as it's title says it is very much "by
pictures", the only small complication I find in it is the need to
translate C, D, E, F, G ... into Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So. This book does fit
your other requirements as it starts very easy and has short pieces every
few pages to exercise the new features learnt. Published by Paul Beuscher
in Paris. Retails here in Germany for Euro 12. If you are interested and
can't find it elsewhere contact me off list for details, we don't have
problems with (most) credit cards!
Len
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:46:26 GMT, <use...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
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Mike Mason
Thanks, I'm familiar with Paypal, but my ordering attempt was strictly
through a credit card, like I use to pay my amazon.com and amazon.de
(Germany) invoices, and never a problem with my c-card.
The issue was a particular requirement for that store.
mdm
----------------
"allen watsky" <awa...@nj.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p5Zdd.173818$4h7.32...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Mike Mason
Ok thanks for the tip. I'll save your message. I hope there is still
something in english or german, but maybe your suggestion is the best. Do
you work for a store, do they have a website?
However, how can it be that chromatics are the dominant keyboard still in
Europe, but there are hardly any tutorial books for it?? One would think
that in Germany or Scandanavia there would be a vast choice??
I wonder....
mike
"Len Killick" <l...@killick.de> wrote in message
news:opsf9dzlq7e1vws4@silver...
Mike Mason
It just occurred to me to ask you, as you seem to live in Germany, right???
There is a tutor called: "Anzaghi Complete Method for Piano and & 5 row 'C'
system". Is that something you could get your hands on??
mike
=================
"Len Killick" <l...@killick.de> wrote in message
news:opsf9dzlq7e1vws4@silver...
>
>
Mumaharps
from Allodi Accordions in England. http://www.accordions.co.uk/Index.htm
I purchased with credit card with no problem. I'm still waiting for
arrival here in Canada.
Roger
Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at their
German distribution - I'll check.
Len
Len Killick
Hello Mike,
Well I don't think chromatics are the dominant keyboard in Europe, France
maybe, but even there doubtful?
There are plenty of tutorial books in Germany, but there are two problems:
- most are old and not really very good quality (not what I'd call a
useful tutor in the modern style, like we have now for piano accordeon and
diatonics to a lesser extent).
- there is more B-keyboard material in Germany and the east-europe
countries that C-keyboard.
I have a small business of my own you can find me at
http://www.akkordeonservice.de/
Len
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antonista
I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic. I also
found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german is not
that great. If you come across any books in english, please let me
know!
Thanks,
Dave
"Mike Mason" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<mTXdd.3936$5i...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
J. Coon
use...@d-and-d.com wrote:
> Really-Reply-To: anto...@yahoo.com (antonista)
> Really-From: anto...@yahoo.com (antonista)
>
> Mike:
>
> I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic. I also
> found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german is not
> that great. If you come across any books in english, please let me
> know!
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have the
book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.
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News
A really good source for accordion music and books is Trevani, in the UK,
but they do not deal with cards
Email: mu...@trevani.co.uk to get their comprehensive catalogue. They also
are good for advice
Dave
"J. Coon" <lite...@tir.com> wrote in message
news:417EE82E...@tir.com...
Mike Mason
> >
> > I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic. I also
> > found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german is not
> > that great. If you come across any books in english, please let me
> > know!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dave
>
>
> I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have the
> book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.
Yes, your German has to be decent, but especially you have to get straight
in your mind the entirely different names they have for the intervals. After
working on the book for awhile, I started to grasp what Moser was aiming
for. IMHO, she is teaching entirely a playing approach based on
ntervals -- that could be excellent for improvisation and for jazz. And of
course, your transposition skill would approach the instantaneous.
mdm
Mike Mason
>
>
> I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at their
> German distribution - I'll check.
>
> Len
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a piano
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my mind over the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and I no
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a button
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in Europe. I
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the Western
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently out of date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the PA. Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm
chromaticdg
Hi.. I was told at the Accordion Convention in Las Vegas in June
that there are NO tutorials in English for the chromatic. I am a
new player and am having to work my way through alone, especially
since where I am (Barbados) I'm the only person in these parts with
a squuzebox! The only site on the www that has something about
chromatics that I've found is http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-
accordion-cipher.html - take a look and see if it helps.
--- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, usenet@d... wrote:
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Hugh O'Rourke
Too bad we did not get together. I was on St. Lucia from January to May
with a two row diatonic.
Hugh O'R
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Len Killick
Not a bad decision Mike; for most people I propose that if they already
have any idea at all what a piano keyboard is the PA is preferable over
the CBA. If they don't know anything about either of them AND have plenty
of time and enthusiam for the inital learning the CBA can offer
advantages later: particularly in transposing and speed of playing (with
limited wrist and arm strain!). If they don't know anything about anything
I point them to the diatonics not because they are the idiots instrument
(almost the official German accordeon club opinion) but because they are
easier to start with and offer a lifetime of discovery.
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:36:24 GMT, <use...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> Really-Reply-To: "Mike Mason" <som...@microsoft.com>
> Really-From: "Mike Mason" <som...@microsoft.com>
>
>
Russ Gray
drop me an email offlist
Russ
"Mike Mason" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract for me
> mike"
Jim C
Well, I think it is a bad decision. The PA is logically laid out in
one key, "C". to learn to play a tune in all twelve keys you have to
learn twelve differfent versions of finger patterns. If a tune s
written in C and you want to play it in G, you have to write out the
music in G ore transpose in your head as you play.
With a 5 row CBA, you learn one pattern and you can play it in any key.
With a 3 row CBA, all you have to learn is 3 patterns and yu can play
in any key.
That said, the Diatonics are a lot of fun too and with a little bit of
practice you can pick out any tune that comes into your head, but only
in the keys on the instrument.
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Johann Pascher
Think you are right Jim Coon.
It seams to me that there is a lot of difference in humans.
I think not every one is capable to learn the same way.
I just play for fun, and my fist attempt to play was an Electronic keyboard.
I gave up after a few days of practice. May finger war to short.
I also own a 3 row Schrammel Harmonika and I never came to the point to
learn to play the instrument.
Then, I stared with a two row and ware please to be able to learn by
ear.( so i consider me as that type of player who are "Idiots" still
still ideots also need some plesure)
I never had enough time beside my job to do a lot of practice.
Since two years I manly play on a 4 row diatonic.
At the moment I take lessons to get a bit on the in my ability to play
my Instruments.
My Teacher at the local musical school teaches to play PA, CBA, and
Syrian Type of Diadonic. And she plays several other instruments too,
manly the Contrabass in Groups and in concerts.
See started with PA as child, learned CBA wile attending the
conservatorium and later she started with diatonic and other Instrument.
And her opinion and experience with teaching all this Instruments is
that the diatonic Instrument is the easiest to learn and in many cases
the Instrument that give her the most pleasure in playing.
Still she would not play classical music to a large extent on diatonic
Insruments, then she switches to use the CBA.
Johann
Jim C did write:
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Len Killick
Good or bad decision, I think you agree with my thoughts on the benefits
of CBA against PA which I listed. The problem is whether one has time and
determination to get past the intial stage which is much harder with CBA,
and if you can already handle a piano keyboard it's doubly harder. Some
people, interestingly, cope with transposition on the piano keyboard
without problem and without writing out transposed music (there are a
number of ways to do it, and it is something worth working on too).
Diatonics can play in a lot more keys that you might think from the label
on them. It is yet again a different playing technique (sometimes known as
cheating) and sometimes a bit of lateral thinking but there are a lot of
possibilities!
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Len Killick
A lot of good points there Johann.
There certainly is a lot of difference in what different people can do;
and not necessarily better or worse, just different.
Mind you, having said that I'm glad you gave up the keyboard as they seem
to be a curse of the modern times. Many children seem to learn "keyboard"
at school or music school, but I find that they know nothing about music
and have often learnt to play by numbers also with little musical feeling.
It's interesting you might think somebody playing by ear is in the
"idiots" category! I wish I could play be ear! I can do lots of things
with a two row diatonic, but that is not one of them (at least not at all
easily).
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:45:29 +0100, Johann Pascher <j_pa...@yahoo.de>
wrote:
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Johann Pascher
Hi, Len Killick,
I personally don't think I or someone else is truly an idiot with
playing by ear.
But you used this expression before so I used it.
Should have been a bit more careful with my expression.
Still most musicians are well trained compared to me.
In some way it is even better to be able to listen to the music and
reproduce the music.
Written sheet music cant express everything.
Still I want to improve my skills of using regular written sheet music.
And not everything is easy to hear exactly so I can repeat it the way it
was played the first place.
Single notes and usual two-tone chords are easy to repeat if the part is
not very long. You see it is also not at all easy for me to play by ear.
Often the rhythmus is even harder as the pith of the notes.
So you see I am sometimes tempted to compare with others, but I cant be
compared.
I do have pleasure playing even I am nothing compared to others.
And I make little progress in my playing skills.
And my be there will be a time when I am getting older I am just happy
to play without any progress.
Johann
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Ed Bouchard
I was afraid it is the case (that "there are NO tutorials in English for the
chromatic"). I don't yet play a chromatic treble but have been playing a
C-system bass with a treble PA for the last few months. Based on that
experience, if you are just beginning an accordion, unless you want that
certain sound produced by one of the various button boxes, my strong advice
is to opt for either a B or C system CBA. It's a reflection of the state of
the accordion industry in the US.
I have played a PA since I was eight and I'm 64, so I know that keyboard
best. A CBA has many advantages. As Lee pointed out, it's harder to
transpose in a PA than any CBA.
That said, a lot of people do learn to transpose on a PA. The PA keyboard
has been around since long before the piano, What we call a "piano
keyboard", the Harvard Dictionary of Music refers to as a C-Major keyboard.
There is a C-Major keyboard on a 14th century precursor to the clavichord.
The clavichord is based on an ancient monochord, an instrument that was used
from the time Pythagoras to the Renaissance for scientific investigation of
acoustics. But the monochord didn't get a keyboard until the Renaissance.
And until the Renaissance, study of music was classified as a science. When
the first piano's appeared in the 18th century, most all of them had C-Major
keyboards. An Austrian mathematician, Paul von Janko, introduced a 2-row
chromatic keyboard at the end of the 19th century. It was widely promoted
but it never caught on.
The 3-row chromatic keyboard appeared in the middle of the 19th century,
invented by guy named Walther as I recall. Unlike the Janko keyboard, there
was little promotional hype for it. Looking at their comparative history,
the gradual growth of the 3-row chromatic keyboard use is quite remarkable.
People play a CBA because it is easy to play everything, not just for ease
of transposition.
Except for diatonic glissandos in the key of C, I can't think anything that
you can play on a PA that cannot be played on a CBA, and usually more
easily. The reverse, however, isn't the case. For instance, look at the
opening passages of Impasse by Frank Angelis, the 2004 Coupe Mondiale Test
Piece. They simply cannot be played as written on a PA. (see HYPERLINK
"http://www.coupemondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg"http://www.coupem
ondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg or HYPERLINK
"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr_request.htm"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr
_request.htm)
Reach possibilities are so much greater on a CBA than on a PA. The piece
begins repeated two octave leaps. Measure after measure, there are passages
that can almost be played on a PA, but with great difficulty. On a CBA,
however, they are a snap.
For those of us who grew up on a PA, maybe it is best to stay with a PA.
However, I'm not sure of that either. It's always good to learn something
new.
As to CBA tutorials in English, there were a couple of books in English for
learning C-system free bass (How to Play the Free Bassetti System Accordion
by Flaviano Fogli and Frank Gaviani and Comprehensive Method for the
Chromatic Free Bass System by Mogens Ellegaard). I'm not sure of their
availability. The fingering will of course be different when you have 5
fingers -- and different for B-system depending on the key. But the
principles should be the same. I find breaking the scale passages into 4
notes helps
Playing a CBA may also help develop better relative pitch. Learning to play
by ear first is probably the best way to learn music.
edb
-----Original Message-----
From: chromaticdg [mailto:Simpl...@caribsurf.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:49 PM
Subject: SML: Re: tutorial for chromatic accordion
Hi.. I was told at the Accordion Convention in Las Vegas in June
that there are NO tutorials in English for the chromatic. I am a
new player and am having to work my way through alone, especially
since where I am (Barbados) I'm the only person in these parts with
a squuzebox! The only site on the www that has something about
chromatics that I've found is HYPERLINK
"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-
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Ed Bouchard
Hermeto Pascoal played a concert last night at the Chicago Old Town School
of Folk Music. On one selection, he played a 2-row diatonic accordion; it
was breath-taking.
For those of you who live in Seattle, SF and LA, he'll be there next.
Seattle
Tuesday
11/02/2004
SF
Wednesday
11/03/2004
LA
Thursday
11/04/22004
For times and places see:
http://www.eyefortalent.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/artist.performance_schedule
/artist_id/32/tour_id/197/day/10-31-2004
Whatever you are doing on those dates, drop it. Instead, Hear Hermeto
Pascoal live. You won't be disappointed. For those who are not familiar with
him, listen to him once and you will agree that Hermeto Pascoal is one of
the greatest pure musicians who ever lived. His group consists of himself, 6
players, and one sound person. Last night he sang, played keyboard, flute,
diatonic accordion, drums, among other instruments -- as well as masterfully
conjured tunes out of an old tin tea pot and a whistle. His group members
(keyboard, bass guitar, percussion, drums, reeds, voice) are as incredible.
The audience last night included many of Chicago's great jazz musicians,
many turned down gigs to be swept away by this musical wizard. He's awe
inspiring.
For an interview that's still in the Chicago Tribune for another day or so
see:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/chi-0410280100oct28,1,1195424.story
edb
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Len Killick
Johann,
I know you didn't mean "idiot" but I also know why you use it as that is
the implication from many non-diatonic accordeon players and others,
especially in Germany as you must know. It was one of my first experiences
of accordeon in Germany, going to an accordeon orchestra concert and
talking with the president afterwards I showed some interest in the
diatonic section and his words were "but you said you can read music so
you should play a proper instrument". I've also seen in German music shops
some sales staff who say "Ah, diatonic, you can only play them from
special music, you should get a proper instrument". The implication always
is that diatonic players are the "idiots" of the accordeon world. This
also leads to many hundreds of diatonic players, especially the older
ones, who are a bit frightened to admit that they play.
Playing by ear is a gift for most persons who can do it (I think it can be
learnt to some extent, but initially it's a gift) and you should certainly
be both pleased and proud of it. Indeed most of those who play by ear play
the melody and bass by ear and mostly fill in with their own chords and
fancy pieces. Talking of that reminded me of the times around the end of
the 19th century when at the first performance of a new opera there were
people sitting in the audience who would (and could) write down every note
and word of the performance and promptly publish the score a few days
later (with the most popular songs the next day). Well copyright laws were
something else in those days and performing rights non-existent!
Indeed the pleasure is the most important part of playing, firstly for
yourself and secondly for those who might listen to you be it in private
or public. But don't give up on progress, progress comes at any age (again
there are those who will try to deter you) but I have friends who started
playing diatonic accordeon in their 60s and switched to concertina in the
70s and are still learning and definitely progressing in their 80s. It's
never too late to start or to progress!
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 22:12:20 +0100, Johann Pascher <j_pa...@yahoo.de>
wrote:
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Ron Kowalewski
i started taking lessons about 4-5 years ago on PA. learned a lot of theory
and technique. That foundation helped me to play with other people and
understand chord progressions and relatives keys/ cicle of fifths.
with that said my inspiration and latest improvements have come from playing
by ear and watching/dancing to countless hours of zydeco at a roots music
festival.
some stuff is all abouty rhythm, a little singing/hollering, and some other
musicians you can trust to keep a groove going when your head and fingers
are trying to produce something in your mind.
Ron
Johann,
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Johann Pascher
Len Killick,
Thanks for your encouraging words!
I also agree with you, that a lot off musicians did and do consider
diatonic instruments not as proper instruments.
For a long time it was not possible to study diatonic Instrument playing
on a Conservatorium.
But I changed a little bit the last years.
And if I think abut it, it is a problem of the whole reed instrument
family that it is rely new instrument compeered to other classical
instruments traditionally used in Orchestras.
At the moment a lot of young people learn to play Syrian type of
diatonic instruments.
And many of them get relay good in playing and the are capable to play
nearly everything
on 4 row instruments with accidental notes. on the treble side all
notes are available even for 12-tone music. The bassside is a bit
limiting but in many cases this dues not relay matter.
And limiting duos not mean bad; every instrument has its advantages.
I think of Blues Harmonicas or single row diatonic Instruments all can
be better in some way for some kind of music.
On one of my own Instruments I do have 12 double helicon fundamental
basses (bisonic)
And 6 minor + 6 major chords on pull and on push 6 major chords.
So much more on classical music would be possible to play as I am able
to play.
I can't compare to people from the 19 century who could hear a concert
and in the same time write it down. My teacher also has to listen a few
times to a piece of music until she can bring all notes to paper. Just
last week she mentioned it took her 3 hours to write down 2 pages of
written music with lessening to the record. Not a lot of people are like
Mozart and the are still good musicians.
So you see I have still a long way to go, and I am pleased if I can make
little progress. Lets hope we have a few years added to or lives to
please others and us with music.
Len Killick schrieb:
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Johann Pascher
Hi, Ed Bouchard!
I did like to reed your comments!
I would nearly express the same.
Do you have more on Information on Paul von Janko and his 2 row
chromatic keyboard layout?
I never heard of him.
As to the 3 row layout, I always did think Walter did not invent the 3
row chromatic layout.
Walter had invented an Instrument with buttons chromic (mono sonic) but
with different arrangement of keys. Don’t know how the layouts ware. If
someone knows please let me know.
Mathias Bauer 1851 first chromatic (mono sonic) accordion with buttons
arranged like on the piano Mathias Bauer 1854 with piano keys
The piano keyboard ware in use much earlier but not for portable reed
instruments.
B Griff 3 row came later somewhere between 1860 to 1880.
Johann
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Johann Pascher
Ron Kowalewski,
Thanks for telling your experiences,
I also put a lot of afford into getting the right rhythm and articulation.
Yes I am learning.
Johann
Len Killick
That could well be the case in a general music store where there is a much
bigger selection of PAs than diatonics; in my store I have diatonics more
expensive than the PAs. But then I'm odd as I like to direct customers to
the instrument which suits their needs best, if I can work out what that
is!
Len
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:56:37 -0500, J. Coon <lite...@tir.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Len Killick wrote:
>
>> Johann,
>>
>> I know you didn't mean "idiot" but I also know why you use it as that is
>> the implication from many non-diatonic accordeon players and others,
>> especially in Germany as you must know. It was one of my first
>> experiences
>> of accordeon in Germany, going to an accordeon orchestra concert and
>> talking with the president afterwards I showed some interest in the
>> diatonic section and his words were "but you said you can read music so
>> you should play a proper instrument". I've also seen in German music
>> shops
>> some sales staff who say "Ah, diatonic, you can only play them from
>> special music, you should get a proper instrument". The implication
>> always
>> is that diatonic players are the "idiots" of the accordeon world. This
>> also leads to many hundreds of diatonic players, especially the older
>> ones, who are a bit frightened to admit that they play.
>
>
> I may be wrong, but when you go into a store, it seems the sales people
> tend to direct you to the more expensive instruments, lines, etc.
> That probably has a lot to do with it.
>
>
>
>
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--
Len Killick. An der Kirche 3, 67550 Worms-Abenheim, Germany
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Moshe Braner
learn and play.
Personally, I find it incomprehensible... I am glad that some people do
learn to play it,
as they make such beautiful music :-) But even some diatonic players
make fun of how
illogical it is. See this humoristic exposition for example:
http://www.cadb.org/Parole-4/indexe.html#6
I started on piano, then piano accordion, then picked up the CBA and am
glad I did.
- Moshe
Ed Bouchard
Johann,
Thank you for the complement and for your informative comments on the
history of the CBA. To my earlier note, I should add that it's clear that
good music can be made on any keyboard, PA, CBA, or otherwise. It depends on
the player. When buying and if confronted with a choice between two
instruments with different keyboards, I'd take the one with better reeds and
construction, whatever the keyboard.
You can find more information on Paul von Janko in most books on the history
of the piano. Alfred Dolge's 1911 Pianos and the Makers is probably a good
place to start. There is a 1972 Dover publication reprint that should be
readily available. Dover publications tend to be inexpensive. Dolge was one
of the enthusiastic supporters of the Janko keyboard. Most online info on
Janko seems to draw on Dolge. E.g., http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/janko.htm
and http://monxmood.free.fr/janko.htm.
I have a couple of other books around here on piano history -- but they are
misplaced. When I find them, I'll let you know the titles.
I suspect a 3-row chromatic keyboard offers more possibilities than a 2-row
Janko does. If not Walter or Mathias Bauer, who invented the B- or C-griff?
edb
-----Original Message-----
From: Johann Pascher [mailto:j_pa...@yahoo.de]
Subject: Re: SML: RE: Re: tutorial for chromatic accordion
Hi, Ed Bouchard!
I did like to reed your comments!
I would nearly express the same.
Do you have more on Information on Paul von Janko and his 2 row
chromatic keyboard layout?
I never heard of him.
As to the 3 row layout, I always did think Walter did not invent the 3
row chromatic layout.
Walter had invented an Instrument with buttons chromic (mono sonic) but
with different arrangement of keys. Don’t know how the layouts ware. If
someone knows please let me know.
Mathias Bauer 1851 first chromatic (mono sonic) accordion with buttons
arranged like on the piano Mathias Bauer 1854 with piano keys
The piano keyboard ware in use much earlier but not for portable reed
instruments.
B Griff 3 row came later somewhere between 1860 to 1880.
Johann
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allen watsky
for both B and C griff instruments and has the fingerings for both. I
photocopied from a copy that was loaned to me, I am sure that if you inquire
someone will have one around.
The Hohner is the only method in English that I know of and I did a lot
of looking. Its basic but good, and will get the student up to a reasonable
level playing from music , The Hohner is not a Bayan type method , it has
Stradella in the Left Hand.
gazzapt
> the first piano's appeared in the 18th century, most all of them
had C-Major
> keyboards. An Austrian mathematician, Paul von Janko, introduced a
2-row
> chromatic keyboard at the end of the 19th century. It was widely
promoted
> but it never caught on. >>
And this is where John reuther got his idea for the uniform keyboard.
It was based on the janko system.
Of course the is also the Kravtsov system of which i am fortunate to
have one which has advantages over both systems . Its horses for
courses. Buying a cba is not going to make a poor player good. It
will not make you a better player . It will h0owever have major
advantages later on in the virtuoso stuff.
Regards
Gary Blair
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Johann Pascher
Hello Ed Bouchard!
Thank you very much, had a look on this web page.
I know Helmholz did play a major roll in Musictheorie and so it is not
surprising for me that one of his pupils did invent a different piano
kaybord layout in the year of 1882.
But I cant see any relevance for the chomatic buton layout.
Exept that it was also a way to put the buttons closer, to be able to
reash more nots with one hand.
Still the text shows that different layouts ware an important subject
all through the last centurys.
In the Book of Walter Maurer, die Geschichte des Accordions one can read:
German Text:
Der Musiker Franz Walther hatte um 1850 die Idee, ein Instrument bauen
zu lassen, das 3 Reihen Knöpfe besaß und jedoch im,,Gleichtonprinzip"
gebaut war. Auf Ziehen und Drücken gab es je Knopf denselben Ton. Das
erste Instrument hatte 46 Knöpfe, später wurden solche mit 52 Knöpfen
gebaut. Der Tonumfang reichte von B bis g"'.
Musiker Franz WALTHER hatte die Idee, die verminderten Septakkorde als
Knopfreihen zu nehmen, so daß um 1850 das erste gleichtonige
chromatische ,,Accordion" entstanden ist.
The instrument ware built for the musician Franz WALTHER.
The musician Franz WALTHER had the idea to use dismished sept chords as
tones on one row. So the first chromatic unisonic 3-row instrument was
built in 1850. This is a statement in the book of Walter Maurer.
Unfortunately Walter Maurer gives no prove for his statement.
Walther Soyka writes:
The first Srammelharmonika with 3 rows ware not built before 1870 may be
by WALTHER (don’t know if he is the same as the musician Franz Walther)
Walther Soyka also states, that the oldest instruments he knows or has
repaired is from 1882. and ware built by Karl Budowitz.
German text:
F:\2www\public_html\de\h\Kurze-Geschichte-der-Schrammelharmonika.htm
also found in this text:
G. Mirwald's Accordeon.
In 1891 a new thought of button-set system on the right keyboard set was
proposed by the mechanic G. Mirwald by name in the City of Zelitue,
Bavaria. The buttons of chromatic order were arranged in the askew
transversal(?) way and three buttons in a row. All in all three vertical
lines of the buttons could be observed. Such a button-set system was
called "The Viennese System“. On squeezing and releasing the bellows the
sounds were not changed. Nevertheless the limited major accompaniment
remained on the left side (later it was unificated by the Italian
mechanics, their system having been developed by that time already.)
May be someone else has more information on this subject, would be
pleased to hear more.
Johann
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Crs smitty
there is to any musical instrument! The chemnitzer keyboard even has a logic
to it as does a typewriter keyboard (and I'm not sure that they are different
at all if you consider only one key!) As to the "intuitive" part - that's true
AFTER you learn the instrument by ear and approach the ability to ask "Hum a
few bars and I'll play it!" (though you may have to change keys from what is
hummed)! All musical instruments are logical - it's just a matter of what the
logic is based on!
Ron Smith, Montana Squeezer
gazzapt
Did you check out the Anzaghi tutor book?
I seem to recall that it was translated but I could be wrong
Regards
Gary B
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gazzapt
The first Srammelharmonika with 3 rows ware not built before 1870
may be
by WALTHER (don't know if he is the same as the musician Franz
Walther)
Walther Soyka also states, that the oldest instruments he knows or
has
repaired is from 1882. and ware built by Karl Budowitz.
German text:
F:\2www\public_html\de\h\Kurze-Geschichte-der-Schrammelharmonika.htm
also found in this text:
G. Mirwald's Accordeon.
<<In 1891 a new thought of button-set system on the right keyboard
set was
proposed by the mechanic G. Mirwald by name in the City of Zelitue,
Bavaria. The buttons of chromatic order were arranged in the askew
transversal(?) way and three buttons in a row. All in all three
vertical
lines of the buttons could be observed. Such a button-set system was
called "The Viennese System". On squeezing and releasing the bellows
the
sounds were not changed. Nevertheless the limited major accompaniment
remained on the left side (later it was unificated by the Italian
mechanics, their system having been developed by that time already.>>
The text above is taken from Alfred Mirek's reference book on
accordion systems.
Busson made a chromatic system circa 1850
I will be putting one of these reference books ( brand new) on ebay
very shortly if anyone is interested. It comes with a large wall
chart of the free reed development through the ages.
Regards
Gary Blair
Ed Bouchard
Thanks Johann,
You are a font of good information.
edb
Hello Ed Bouchard!
Walther Soyka writes:
Johann
Ed Bouchard schrieb:
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Ed Bouchard
This is just a reminder about the Hermeto Pascoal concerts in Seattle
(tonight), SF (Wednesday, and LA (Thursday). Those of you in those cities,
don't miss these concerts. Whatever you are doing, this is more important.
It's hard to praise Pascoal too highly. If were of list of the world's
greatest musicians ever -- including persons like JS Bach, WA Mozart,
Charlie Parker -- Pascoal would be on it. In Brazil, they call him The
Wizard. He can take anything and conjure beautiful, moving music.
Also on the bill is great Brazilian vocalist Monica Salmaso. She's
incredible, so are all the other musicians in the group.
Seattle
Earshot Jazz Festival -
On the Boards, 100 W. Roy
Show: 8 pm
San Francisco, CA
Palace of Fine Arts Theatre, 3301 Lyon Street
Los Angeles, CA
Royce Hall / UCLA
Again, drop what ever you are doing (going to your wedding, getting an
award, a job, etc.) and hear Pascoal live. It's a great opportunity.
edb
Seattle
Tuesday
11/02/2004
SF
Wednesday
11/03/2004
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/chi-0410280100oct28,1,1195424.story
edb
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Ed Bouchard
Thanks for the info Gary.
Gary and Johann, is it the case, according to your sources, that no one
knows for sure who invented the 3-row chromatic as we know it today? Did it
develop gradually by different manufacturers responding to player's
requests? Didn't Frosini play a B-griff and wasn't he was among the first to
popularize it? Who else did? Who made their instruments?
I'm interested in your books.
edb
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gazzapt
You are probably correct and that we will not know for certain
If you are asking my opinion then i would favour Sterligov who built
one around 1890 .
The alfred mirek reference book is now for sale ( brand new)
on e bay . It come with a large wall poster
Regards
Gary b
>
> Your question:
> "Gary and Johann, is it the case, according to your sources, that
no one
> knows for sure who invented the 3-row chromatic as we know it
today?"
>
> I would think so!
>
> Sure is that is was not invented and I don't think a patent from
that
> time exists.
> So every One could copy the instrument without any problem.
>
> And if there had not been the scenario in Vienna for music at that
time,
> it would not have been popular so much.
>
> I can imagine that if one would reed all the newspapers from that
> period, a bit more could be recovered. It seams that after the 2nd
war
> no one relay was interested to document the history of the
> schrammelharmonika and people who did know already did.
>
> Just a few weeks ago I got an email from an music student from
Graz he
> also is looking for documents abut the Schrammelharmonika because
he
> writes a "Diplomarbeit" abut this Instrument.
>
> I Hope Gary knows more, ever additional information would be
appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
> In some way one could say POP music ware born in that time with
Johan
> Strauss and the
> Schrammel Brothers.
>
>
>
> Walter Soika writes:
>
> Since 1870 performed Johann und Josef Schrammel with violins in
Georg
> Dänzers (clarinet) Quartet. Together with Anton Stromayer (Bass
violin)
>
> The toured thru all of Europe.
> The Played Folkmusik enriched with Classical elements.
> Johann Strauss Sohn war one of their Fan.
> Where the performed war always full house.
> The invented Music turismus.
>
> 1890 Georg Dänzer, died and he plays was filled with the first 3
row
> chromatic Harmonikaplayer.
>
> 1891 and 1892 the quartet war at the World exhibition in Chicago.
>
> This type of music ware very femas and a lot of music groups with
> chromatic button accordions came into existence.
> This trend continued until the 2. World war.
>
> Is a bit hard for me to translate correctly, for more information
please
> see the German text.
>
>
> And I can imagine that other Musicians after the had seen or heard
such
> music also did start to use this type of accordions.
> And we know any way the very soon bayans ware built and also in
Italy
> the must have produced very soon this type of accordions after
there was
> a demand for it.
>
>
>
> German text:
>
>
> Seit 1870 spielten die Geiger Johann und Josef Schrammel in Georg
> Dänzers Quartett (ein hervorragender G-Klarinettist) zusammen mit
Anton
> Strohmayer an der Kontragitarre. Sie bereisten ganz Europa und
näherten
> durch Virtuosität und strengen mehrstimmigen Satz die Volksmusik
der
> "Klassik" an. Johann Strauss Sohn und Kronprinz Rudolf waren
bekennende
> Fans, wo sie spielten, war ausverkauft und sie erfanden den
> Musiktourismus in seiner heutigen Form.
>
> 1890 starb Georg Dänzer, und Anton Ernst ersetzte ihn, der erste
> bekannte "Schrammel"-harmonikaspieler.
> Der Boom
> Nach dem frühen Tod der Brüder Schrammel 1891 und 1892 (zur
> Weltausstellung in Chicago fuhren Substituten) war der Bedarf an
> Schrammelmusik bereits enorm. Durch sie hatte Wien eine "eigene"
Musik
> bekommen, die sich, einem Schmelztiegel entsprechend, aus
volkstümlichen
> Stilen der gesamten Monarchie zusammensetzte.
> Da war der "Runde", als Ländler aus dem oberen Donauraum bekannt;
> da waren die "Tanz" (im Singular mit dunklem a), höfische
Menuette,
> ungarisch-virtuos zelebriert;
> es gab unzählige Militärmärsche, von den Schrammeln zu weinselig
> torkelnder Gassenhauerei missbraucht;
> und an Liedern aller Art gab es in Wien ohnehin nie Mangel.
> Schrammel- und Lanner-Quartette gab es zuhauf, die
Harmonikamacherei boomte.
>
>
>
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Ron Kowalewski
The name of my Band is the SKRRAM club players, it's pretty close to
Schrammelharmonika.
Ron
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stephen_navoyosky
--- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Bouchard" <ed@e...> wrote:
> Thanks for the info Gary.
>
> Gary and Johann, is it the case, according to your sources, that no one
> knows for sure who invented the 3-row chromatic as we know it today? Did
it
> develop gradually by different manufacturers responding to player's
> requests? Didn't Frosini play a B-griff and wasn't he was among the first to
> popularize it? Who else did? Who made their instruments?
>
> I'm interested in your books.
>
> edb
Dear Ed, gary and Johann,
Sorry for the intrusion, but I've been offline for too long after a thunderstorm
knocked out my broadband and decided to test it with visits to newsbroups.
The answer to your question, to my knowledge and records by Bugiolacchi, is
the Russian musician N.I.Beloborodov in Tula who constructed the first
"chromatic" accordion. This was in 1870
Fidel Socin in Bolzano started a construction business in 1871 and extended
the range of the "chromatic."
Naturally further developments were made, and the chromatic was included
with the stradella bass and located between the stradella and the bellows.
This transpired around 1900, give or take. I have a photo of one in my shop.
Mariano Dallape' also became quickly involved in the chromatic and shortly
after with the piano keyboard. I have a photo of one his made in 1885 with
112 basses...but it was a 4-row chromatic of 60 buttons.
I hope that adds to whatever results you are searching for as I never
wandered back in the thread.
Stephen Navoyosky
Ed Bouchard
Thanks Gary,
You wrote:
You are probably correct and that we will not know for certain
If you are asking my opinion then i would favour Sterligov who built
[a CBA] around 1890 .
The alfred mirek reference book is now for sale ( brand new)
on e bay . It come with a large wall poster
Regards
Gary b
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Johann Pascher
Hi, Stephen Navoyosky!
Nice to hear from you!
Thanks for your contribution!
I personally still think it all stated in Vienna but what I am saying is
I would wish to see facts.
And then, to point to one person as the inventor is also not relay
correct because one must see the whole scenario in the Years between
1830 to 1890.
Very early started a competition between the builders of accordions.
And as you say it is not just the CBA keyboard, it is also the stradella
bass what came up very soon in northern Italy.
But the idea war there before, the same system but less buttons.
Chromatic bass with mechanical cuppers. The oldest instrument I have
seen war a diatonic instrument with chromatic bass. Similar to the
system the “swizerörgely” uses today.
But a much bigger instrument. Interesting is that the instrument comes
from Tyrol what is close to north Italy and to the Swiss.
After the idea of CBA ware born and musicians did there part that the
instrument did get known.
We had very soon 3 places in Europe where nearly similar instruments
ware produced.
The Schrammelharmonika in Vienna.
In Vienna the Schramelharmonika is really called “budewizer”
Budewiz ware one of the first builders of this instrument.
Long before (may be 20 years or more) the Schrammel quartet used this
instrument it war already played by many musicians in Vienna.
It may be that Bauer built a Instrument for the musician Wather around
1860 but I would wish to see facts.
Bauer made a lot of innovation to the instrument, in Vienna technical
museum is an instrument from him with “melodiebass” for the left hand side.
And the also did build concertinas and bandoneos.
Ulig in Germany invented also a lot of instrument around this time in
Germany.
Most others builders did copy the well known Instrument at that time and
made some changes too. So later nothing was invented completely new.
A lot of different variations war build at that time in Vienna.
Helicon bass, Registers, even a 5-row diadonic instrument ware built
before 1890.
Everything a musician could think of and the war able to build could be
ordered.
Most of this builders war not only Accordion builders the also did
build pipe organs and Pianos too. Or some of them war originally clock
builder.
In Vienna not a lot of change ware made to the Schrammelharmonika.
It seams, that it was more important to keep the instrument light.
Good players can use the bass for all types of chords when the use two
keys at the same time.
This is not so easy as with stradella bass but it works.
The other places I know off are:
The Bajan in Tula
And naturally Italy what played really the major roll further on, if we
think of any innovation to this instrument.
And sure one cant forget Germany, but Hohner was not one of the first
who stared with the production. Small factories did also produce
chromatic instruments but not much is documented.
This is my personal opinion i have at the moment, would nor mend if
someone can correct me or prove one or the other statement with
documented facts.
And I am glad you could fill in some Facts abut Italy and Tula, would
love to here more.
Johann
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--- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, Johann Pascher
<j_pascher@y...> wrote:
> Hi, Stephen Navoyosky!
>
> Nice to hear from you!
> Thanks for your contribution!
>
>
>
> I personally still think it all stated in Vienna but what I am
saying is
> I would wish to see facts.
(snip)
>
> And I am glad you could fill in some Facts abut Italy and Tula,
would
> love to here more.
>
> Johann
Dear Johann, and thank you for your reply.
I did mention the records of Bugiolacchi which I have here to
substantiate those claims.
Also I not only mentioned Italy and Tua but also Austria-Hungary
when I stated:
"Fidel Socin in Bolzano started a construction business in 1871
and extended the range of the "chromatic." "
Of course their were diatonics all along the period of time, as
now, but since I just arrived at this thread, I thought it was all
about chromatics. While the accordion has been constructed in
many parts of the world and experiments done or specials
made, record keeping leaves much to persons who lived at that
time and who passed such information on by word.
We can 'only' rely on what we can find today based on writings
and records, and even then, much could have been omitted or
unknown at that time. All is argumentative however.
Stephen Navoyosky
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Ed Bouchard
Thanks Steve,
This thread began with Dave looking for tutorials in English for C-griff
CBA. Gary noted may be one Hohner instruction book for CBA in English. As
far as I know, it's the one and only. As usual, the thread verged into
sub-threads, including one in which various persons chimed in with their
experience and advice on merits of CBA versus PA. That's when I added my
2-cents, saying although I still play PA treble, I can see many advantages
to a CBA.
(Aside: I find that the some of new music written for CBA cannot be played
on a PA, at least not as easily because of reach issues. Moreover, from
Gary's previous posts, we know that at least some European degree-music
schools that teach accordion demand students play B-griff CBA. In contrast,
I believe one of the programs in the US demands C-griff CBA. If I were
teaching young students accordion right now (I'm not), I'd learn CBA and
only teach CBA with wither converter- or free-bass (probably B-griff).
Although it may not be that difficult for a talented player to change when
it becomes clear they might want to go further with their instrument, it
seems a shame that, when they are in their formative years, to not be
playing the kind of instrument to which they will eventually have to move
anyhow. At any rate, from my very limited experience with the CBA keyboard,
among other advantages, it offers some really neat possibilities for playing
big chords.)
As to the sub-thread about about the CBA keyboard origins. It seems from
your, Johann, and Gary's posts that there were more or less simultaneous
developments in Vienna and Tula, and perhaps Italy. Although, your post
seems to give the advantage for contracting the first "modern" CBA to
Beloborodov in 1870 Tula. The 1850s instruments may have had an unknown
keyboard configuration and some of.the Vienna examples were in the 1890s. It
makes sense that the first CBA was a bit earlier. I believe Frosini
(1885b-1951d) played a B-griff. If that's the instrument he learned on, then
the B-griff was already established in Sicily by the 1890s, presuming
Frosini began to learn before he was 10.
edb
Steve wrote:
Sorry for the intrusion, but I've been offline for too long after a
thunderstorm
knocked out my broadband and decided to test it with visits to newsbroups.
The answer to your question, to my knowledge and records by Bugiolacchi, is
the Russian musician N.I.Beloborodov in Tula who constructed the first
"chromatic" accordion. This was in 1870
Fidel Socin in Bolzano started a construction business in 1871 and extended
the range of the "chromatic."
Naturally further developments were made, and the chromatic was included
with the stradella bass and located between the stradella and the bellows.
This transpired around 1900, give or take. I have a photo of one in my shop.
Mariano Dallape' also became quickly involved in the chromatic and shortly
after with the piano keyboard. I have a photo of one his made in 1885 with
112 basses...but it was a 4-row chromatic of 60 buttons.
I hope that adds to whatever results you are searching for as I never
wandered back in the thread.
Stephen Navoyosky
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stephen_navoyosky
--- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Bouchard" <ed@e...> wrote:
> Thanks Steve,
>
> This thread began with Dave looking for tutorials in English for C-griff
> CBA. Gary noted may be one Hohner instruction book for CBA in English.
As
> far as I know, it's the one and only. As usual, the thread verged into
> sub-threads, including one in which various persons chimed in with their
> experience and advice on merits of CBA versus PA. That's when I added
my
> 2-cents, saying although I still play PA treble, I can see many advantages
> to a CBA.
Hello Ed:
There was another tutorial by Antonio Zordan in Chicago whereas it was a
combined Piano and Chromatic (three row and C system) method.
Throughout the book all fingering is marked for each 'system' with piano
above the note and chromatic below the note. The downside of this method is
that Zordan taught the four finger way and that amazed me. Outside of that,
the method was sound though not presented in a systematic manner. I've
used it with students but naturally changed fingerings.
Tony Galla-Rini and I were discussing the proposition that if we had to do it all
over again and know what we know now, we'd both use the 5 row B system
chromatic and chromatic free bass. I can't recall our discussion regarding the
system for the free bass, but I would have it like the Russians and as I do my
instrument...low notes on the bottom and a flip-flopped 5 row B system....but
no stradella. I would imagine Tony would have gone for the transformer of
combined systems.
>
> (Aside: I find that the some of new music written for CBA cannot be played
> on a PA, at least not as easily because of reach issues.
Range and voices in two different octaves do present concerns and must be
transcribed....that's true.
(SNIP)
>
> As to the sub-thread about about the CBA keyboard origins. It seems from
> your, Johann, and Gary's posts that there were more or less simultaneous
> developments in Vienna and Tula, and perhaps Italy. Although, your post
> seems to give the advantage for contracting the first "modern" CBA to
> Beloborodov in 1870 Tula. The 1850s instruments may have had an
unknown
> keyboard configuration and some of.the Vienna examples were in the
1890s. It
> makes sense that the first CBA was a bit earlier. I believe Frosini
> (1885b-1951d) played a B-griff. If that's the instrument he learned on, then
> the B-griff was already established in Sicily by the 1890s, presuming
> Frosini began to learn before he was 10.
Yes, Frosini used the B system (3 row) and it's interesting to note that his
original instrument had two rows of bass buttons and there were no pre-set
chords....just pitches. This was normal in Sicily at the time and the system or
two whole note scales had to be derived from von Janko. So Frosini actually
played "free bass" and it wasn't until later that he added an additional row
either side of those first two rows for more opportunities. Once performing in
the USA and experiencing vaudevilians like the Deiro brothers with their deep
basses, did he add yet another two rows on either side of the four rows and
those pitches were an octave lower so he 'could compete' with them and
others. Of course he had to have a piano cosmetic placed to fool the
audience and promoters that he was playing the popular piano keyboard.
History is wonderful if only we learned and practiced its teachings.
Steve
>
> edb
>
> Steve wrote:
>
> Sorry for the intrusion, but I've been offline for too long after a
> thunderstorm
> knocked out my broadband and decided to test it with visits to newsbroups.
>
> The answer to your question, to my knowledge and records by Bugiolacchi,
is
> the Russian musician N.I.Beloborodov in Tula who constructed the first
> "chromatic" accordion. This was in 1870
>
> Fidel Socin in Bolzano started a construction business in 1871 and
extended
> the range of the "chromatic."
>
> Naturally further developments were made, and the chromatic was included
> with the stradella bass and located between the stradella and the bellows.
> This transpired around 1900, give or take. I have a photo of one in my
shop.
>
> Mariano Dallape' also became quickly involved in the chromatic and shortly
> after with the piano keyboard. I have a photo of one his made in 1885 with
> 112 basses...but it was a 4-row chromatic of 60 buttons.
>
> I hope that adds to whatever results you are searching for as I never
> wandered back in the thread.
>
> Stephen Navoyosky
Ed Bouchard
Thanks for the info Steve.
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Johann Pascher
Thanks Stephen Navoyosky!
I did not want to criticize you at all, I am glad you contributed!
I think Bolzano must be Bozen what is German speaking region of south
Tyrol today north Italy.
You write:
"Fidel Socin in Bolzano started a construction business in 1871
and extended the range of the "chromatic."
Understand now, you my be in have heard this name before but I don’t
rely recall.
Johann
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Johann Pascher
Dear Steve!
I just hope you are around for a long time in the future with all that
knowledge you have!
I have seen a picture of this accordion of Forsiny and now I know what
the layout of his accordion was.
Thank you very much!
Johann
stephen_navoyosky schrieb:
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Ditto,
edb
-----Original Message-----
From: Johann Pascher [mailto:j_pa...@yahoo.de]
Dear Steve!
I just hope you are around for a long time in the future with all that
knowledge you have!
Thank you very much!
Johann
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stephen_navoyosky
--- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, Johann Pascher
<j_pascher@y...> wrote:
> Dear Steve!
>
> I just hope you are around for a long time in the future with all
that
> knowledge you have!
>
> I have seen a picture of this accordion of Forsiny and now I
know what
> the layout of his accordion was.
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Johann
Thank you very much for your kind words, Johann. I'll see about
contacting you with a more detailed information on this
one-of-a-kind system Frosini devised. If I have a copy of the
layout in y computor I'll surely send it to you...or....scan a copy I
have and send that. I have a file of all the free bass systems
known and some have been very unique.
And thank you Ed for your support. So much has happened over
the years that I can believe that everything has been
done....nothing is new. We've had very great craftsmen and
designers in this business and some amazing feats were done.
Stephen Navoyosky
Johann Pascher
Dear Stephen Navoyosky!
Waoo! I really look forward to see this Layout and all this free bass
systems!
And I also think that nearly or may be everything has been dune, but
ware not promoted and did not get known to a lot of people.
And I fully agree that we had very great craftsman and designers in this
business!
Now we have all this new synthetic materials and precise machinery and
what duos it help?
Yes it helps a bit, but the main fundaments are, what was imaginable and
realized before by all this craftsman in the past already.
So it is a real treasure if we have still some wise craftsman in this
business around to tell as all we would have to learn the hard way again.
Johann
stephen_navoyosky schrieb:
>
> --- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, Johann Pascher
> <j_pascher@y...> wrote:
> > Dear Steve!
> >
> > I just hope you are around for a long time in the future with all
> that
> > knowledge you have!
> >
> > I have seen a picture of this accordion of Forsiny and now I
> know what
> > the layout of his accordion was.
> >
> > Thank you very much!
> >
> > Johann
>
> Thank you very much for your kind words, Johann. I'll see about
> contacting you with a more detailed information on this
> one-of-a-kind system Frosini devised. If I have a copy of the
> layout in y computor I'll surely send it to you...or....scan a copy I
> have and send that. I have a file of all the free bass systems
> known and some have been very unique.
>
> And thank you Ed for your support. So much has happened over
> the years that I can believe that everything has been
> done....nothing is new. We've had very great craftsmen and
> designers in this business and some amazing feats were done.
>
> Stephen Navoyosky
>
>
>
>
>
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Ed:
I'm not sure what you mean by tutorial; but there is a fine method book
with loads of exercises for PA and C system button. It is called "Metodo
per Fisarmonica". It is by Cambieri, Fugazza, and Melocchi. Berben of
Ancona, Italy is the editor. Volume One contains enough material for
beginner through high intermediate level. It is written for both PA and
C-system with both fingerings and is written in Italian, Spanish, and
English- all in the same book. I paid $15 twenty years ago. I see a few
places on the Internet selling it for about $40.
At 03:29 PM 11/1/2004 -0600, Ed Bouchard wrote:
>I was afraid it is the case (that "there are NO tutorials in English for the
>chromatic"). I don't yet play a chromatic treble but have been playing a
>C-system bass with a treble PA for the last few months. Based on that
>experience, if you are just beginning an accordion, unless you want that
>certain sound produced by one of the various button boxes, my strong advice
>is to opt for either a B or C system CBA. It's a reflection of the state of
>the accordion industry in the US.
>
>I have played a PA since I was eight and I'm 64, so I know that keyboard
>best. A CBA has many advantages. As Lee pointed out, it's harder to
>transpose in a PA than any CBA.
>
>That said, a lot of people do learn to transpose on a PA. The PA keyboard
>has been around since long before the piano, What we call a "piano
>keyboard", the Harvard Dictionary of Music refers to as a C-Major keyboard.
>There is a C-Major keyboard on a 14th century precursor to the clavichord.
>The clavichord is based on an ancient monochord, an instrument that was used
>from the time Pythagoras to the Renaissance for scientific investigation of
>acoustics. But the monochord didn't get a keyboard until the Renaissance.
>And until the Renaissance, study of music was classified as a science. When
>the first piano's appeared in the 18th century, most all of them had C-Major
>keyboards. An Austrian mathematician, Paul von Janko, introduced a 2-row
>chromatic keyboard at the end of the 19th century. It was widely promoted
>but it never caught on.
>
>The 3-row chromatic keyboard appeared in the middle of the 19th century,
>invented by guy named Walther as I recall. Unlike the Janko keyboard, there
>was little promotional hype for it. Looking at their comparative history,
>the gradual growth of the 3-row chromatic keyboard use is quite remarkable.
>People play a CBA because it is easy to play everything, not just for ease
>of transposition.
>
>Except for diatonic glissandos in the key of C, I can't think anything that
>you can play on a PA that cannot be played on a CBA, and usually more
>easily. The reverse, however, isn't the case. For instance, look at the
>opening passages of Impasse by Frank Angelis, the 2004 Coupe Mondiale Test
>Piece. They simply cannot be played as written on a PA. (see HYPERLINK
>"http://www.coupemondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg"http://www.coupem
>ondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg or
>HYPERLINK"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr_request.htm"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr
>_request.htm)
>
>Reach possibilities are so much greater on a CBA than on a PA. The piece
>begins repeated two octave leaps. Measure after measure, there are passages
>that can almost be played on a PA, but with great difficulty. On a CBA,
>however, they are a snap.
>
>For those of us who grew up on a PA, maybe it is best to stay with a PA.
>However, I'm not sure of that either. It's always good to learn something
>new.
>
>As to CBA tutorials in English, there were a couple of books in English for
>learning C-system free bass (How to Play the Free Bassetti System Accordion
>by Flaviano Fogli and Frank Gaviani and Comprehensive Method for the
>Chromatic Free Bass System by Mogens Ellegaard). I'm not sure of their
>availability. The fingering will of course be different when you have 5
>fingers -- and different for B-system depending on the key. But the
>principles should be the same. I find breaking the scale passages into 4
>notes helps
>
>Playing a CBA may also help develop better relative pitch. Learning to play
>by ear first is probably the best way to learn music.
>
>edb
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: chromaticdg [mailto:Simpl...@caribsurf.com]
>Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:49 PM
>To: squee...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: SML: Re: tutorial for chromatic accordion
>
>
>
>Hi.. I was told at the Accordion Convention in Las Vegas in June
>that there are NO tutorials in English for the chromatic. I am a
>new player and am having to work my way through alone, especially
>since where I am (Barbados) I'm the only person in these parts with
>a squuzebox! The only site on the www that has something about
>chromatics that I've found is HYPERLINK
>"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-
>accordion-cipher.html - take a look and see if it helps.
>--- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, usenet@d... wrote:
> > Really-Reply-To: "Mike Mason" <someone@m...>
> > Really-From: "Mike Mason" <someone@m...>
> >
> > "J. Coon" <liteways@t...> wrote in message
> > news:417EE82E.5000305@t...
> > > > Mike:
> > > >
> > > > I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic.
>I also
> > > > found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german
>is not
> > > > that great. If you come across any books in english, please
>let me
> > > > know!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have
>the
> > > book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.
> >
> > Yes, your German has to be decent, but especially you have to get
>straight
> > in your mind the entirely different names they have for the
>intervals. After
> > working on the book for awhile, I started to grasp what Moser was
>aiming
> > for. IMHO, she is teaching entirely a playing approach based on
> > ntervals -- that could be excellent for improvisation and for
>jazz. And of
> > course, your transposition skill would approach the instantaneous.
> > mdm
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
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>
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Ed Bouchard
Marie
Thank you so much. "Tutorial" wasn't my word. The original poster may have
meant "online tutorial." And I waited a week or so before chiming into the
discussion, since I don't YET play a CBA treble. One post noted being told
at a national accordion festival in the US that there "are no tutorials" in
English. I'm glad to learn of the "Metodo per Fisarmonica" series. I'm sure
the other posters will as well. .
You wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by tutorial; but there is a fine method book
with loads of exercises for PA and C system button. It is called "Metodo
per Fisarmonica". It is by Cambieri, Fugazza, and Melocchi. Berben of
Ancona, Italy is the editor. Volume One contains enough material for
beginner through high intermediate level. It is written for both PA and
C-system with both fingerings and is written in Italian, Spanish, and
English- all in the same book. I paid $15 twenty years ago. I see a few
places on the Internet selling it for about $40.
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News
Fugazza - Melocchi is available in English, French and Italian for
Chromatic C system and PA.
Dave
"Ron Kowalewski" <idopl...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:AAENLEMOLACDHKHBFOC...@adelphia.net...
Jim C
Is anyone else getting these messages?
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> Does anyone know of a tutorial for the chromatic accordion (in my case, a C
> keyboard). I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract for me
> as my only guide. In the book I'd like to find, it would have a couple of
> "e-z to play" tunes every couple of pages so I can feel like I'm making
> progress.
>
> I live in the USA and am having trouble ordering from the UK, the one shop I
> found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card, whatever that
> is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
>
> mike
I have recently started playing around a little with this instrument,considering taking it on from playing Chromatic harmonica for many years(knowledge of music theory assumed from playing piano when i was a kid)I have searched extensively on the internet & have found very little in the way of tuition books.There seems to be a substantial(infinate) number of diagrams of the Base & Treble buttons/keys which have falsely been labelled finger/hand arrangements for the button C & B system accordians, but which only actually give the corresponding layouts or denote the given notes or pitches of the given buttons, without actually showing any actual hand/finger arrangements whatso-ever.A beginner would have no idea from these diagrams with which finger/hand arrangements to use to play any given scales or how to even begin using this interesting complex but versatile intrument.Just the same information time & again.
However there are some diagrams on "Hans Palms Accordians" page denoting the treble layouts "INCLUDING" some basic scales with "one version" of some given finger arrangements, just keep going through his menue & you'll eventually find them.This is probably the best resource i have found as a newcomer like yourself.
Other wise if one digs deep one will eventually no doubt come across several
tuition books for sale on Ebay or elsewhere.
I have purchased one of these books by Antonio Zordan written for the Chromatic C accordian as well as the piano accordian in English & Italian.I think although he was no doubt an accomplished musician & tutor on both instruments & the Book is highly regarded by some,i found to my dismay that the finger arrangements for playing the given scales denoted in the book were very different than the one's shown on Hans Palmers page, which i now have got used to using.The Diagrams on Hans page denote the thumb as Number 1, index: 2 middle:3 ring:4 pinky:5 .In Zordans book the number one finger is denoted the Fore-finger, from then on Middle:2 Ring:3 Pinky: 4 there's no number 5.There-fore the scales given in the book are played using a different method.Apart form this i have seen yet again another entirely different finger arrangement for playing the scales again from these two that i have mentioned.Another highly regarded tution book that is more more easily available for purchase than the one i got is by Well known & accomplished accordianist "Elsbeth Moser" although apparently writte in German, but this shouldn't be a problem if one is just after the scales finger arrangements.However,myself iam not sure if i want to buy yet again another book that may give me more complications than i already have.
To sumerise, i have come to the conclusion that this instrument, unlike the Bayan accordian that is taught in many Music Academies does not appear to have any well organized,structured or established way of learning.I am not a professional musician nor will i ever be, so rather than spend bags of money on Tuition books that only serve to confuse me further, i have decided that, apart from putting a little of that money into purchasing a reasonable instrument, i would devise my own methods of learning it,utilizing what i already know from playing previous instruments as well as perhaps taking a little from the different tuition materials that are available without concentrating on any one method in particular.These instruments also come at a great cost, one would imagine that the bigger companies that make them & distribute them would put a little more effort in to ensuring there was a certain amount of tuition material available from their distributors.
Russ
> Does anyone know of a tutorial for the chromatic accordion (in my case, a C
> keyboard). I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract for me
> as my only guide. In the book I'd like to find, it would have a couple of
> "e-z to play" tunes every couple of pages so I can feel like I'm making
> progress.
>
> I live in the USA and am having trouble ordering from the UK, the one shop I
> found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card, whatever that
> is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
>
> mike
Joe Tierno
> Does anyone know of a tutorial for the chromatic accordion (in my case, a C
> keyboard). I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract for me
> as my only guide. In the book I'd like to find, it would have a couple of
> "e-z to play" tunes every couple of pages so I can feel like I'm making
> progress.
>
> I live in the USA and am having trouble ordering from the UK, the one shop I
> found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card, whatever that
> is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
>
> mike
george
accordion.
The "Verified Credit Card" is a system where the card has been
registered/verified by the card company. It gives an extra layer of
security.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
Jack Campin
> >> found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card, whatever that
> >> is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
> registered/verified by the card company. It gives an extra layer of
> security.
a site I know nothing about and whose credentials I can't check, for
unexplained reasons, I never buy anything from sites that insist on
that. As far as I'm concerned it's an alarming added INsecurity.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
george
one off process with Visa not with the vendor's site. This link gives
the details:
http://www.visa.co.uk/products/protection-benefits/verified-by-visa/faqs
ike milligan
> On 16/02/2015 22:55, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>>> I live in the USA and am having trouble ordering from the UK, the
>>>>> one shop I
>>>>> found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card,
>>>>> whatever that
>>>>> is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
>>> The "Verified Credit Card" is a system where the card has been
>>> registered/verified by the card company. It gives an extra layer of
>>> security.
>>
>> Since it involves asking me to type my card details over again into
>> a site I know nothing about and whose credentials I can't check, for
>> unexplained reasons, I never buy anything from sites that insist on
>> that. As far as I'm concerned it's an alarming added INsecurity.
>>
by a dude named Rosanova published in the USA in the 1930's. It is many
pages and simultaneously both a method book for piano keyboard and
Chromatic C-system.
A very large library could maybe find it for you and lend it to your
local library, so you could make copies as it is public domain.
ike milligan
everywhere.