Ground rules are simple:
Write 50 songs in 90 days.
So if any of you are up for the challenge, start setting aside a few
song ideas. Get those rhyming dictionaries down off the shelf and put
them at the ready. Dust off your copy of 'The Songwriter's Idea Book' by
Sheila Davis (or whatever you use for inspiration).
Last year I was joined by several RMMSrs and other friends from groups
like Orbisons. A couple of months ago, Tom Paxton and I were talking
about co-writing. As far as I'm concerned, it's going to be a
verse/chorus,verse/chorus, bridge chorus and out free-for-all. Or
verse/refrain,verse refrain,bridge,verse/refrain free-for-all, it all
just depends on how I'm feelin that day. And whoever feels like
co-writing.
Grand Prizes? We don't need no friggin prizes 'round here--writing is
the prize!! But if you must have a goal, I'll offer this: All
contestants can enter their best song of the 50 they write. Me and my
panel of expert judges (whoever they might be--Irene? Seth? Jodi?) will
pick ten. If you can't demo the song yourself, I will--FOR ABSOLUTELY
FREE-- provide a guitar/vocal demo (if your song is chosen in the top
ten). We'll post the 10 winning entrants on MP3.com, or press a small
run of CDs. Or something, I'm open to suggestions.
Remember, you don't win if you don't write.
And if you don't write, why the heck are you reading RMMS in the first
place?
On the other hand, if you need more info, feel free to write to me
personally. I'll be setting up the list, which is a group of people I
notify when the new songs come out. You're welcome to be on it if you'd
like.
David
I think if you're in the challenge, you should at least post the
titles of the 50 songs you've written along with the best one or two
demos or lyrics.
Now. Does the 50 songs have to be totally new songs? I mean, not
songs that you've already got rough drafts for? And do we all have to
start on 7/4? Can we start a little early?
BTW, you can count me in.
Watson (the pencil neck) Davis
>Write 50 songs in 90 days.
Is that 90 free days, as and when they become available, or just three months?
I reckon if I had fifty new songs in my pocket it would take more than 90
calendar days from now just to arrange and rough demo them :-)
OTOH if I had 90 days vacation coming up and nothing else to do but write 50
songs....I might get a quarter of the way there.
Cheers
Frank
Amateur songs, amateur recordings. (I know what I mean by "Amateur" - you can
make your own mind up).
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/amateurfrank_music.htm
OR
http://members.aol.com/FrankatCampion/audio.html (14 Lo-Fi Streams)
I have only written one song in the last three months, and I haven't yet
recorded it or posted it here. I have played it three or four times in
public and it's the best I have ever done. People come up afterwards,
remembering the name of the song, and say how much they liked it and
want to talk about it.
But I had to sit there for three months doing something else (learning
baroque technique and reading 18th c manuscripts) to be rewarded by
having something I so much needed to say that I could write a song worth hearing.
Funny thing is I enjoy having one simple song which REALLY works for
audiences than having a dozen more deliberately 'created' ones.
David
------------------------------------------
Icon magazines: http://www.freelancephotographer.co.uk/
Music CDs and tracks: http://www.mp3.com/DavidKilpatrick
Personal website: http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/
> Funny thing is I enjoy having one simple song which REALLY works for
> audiences than having a dozen more deliberately 'created' ones.
I agree. Just numbers don't do it for me, each song must have some value -
either in the lyrics or in the melody, preferably both.What's the point in
making crappy songs just for the pleasure to put a number and a date on
them?
On the other hand, with such a deadline you will surely spend a lot of time
fishing for melodies and writing. And that's about all that it takes to get
lucky and make the good ones you are longing for. Lately I've come up with
good tunes every time I've really tried (meaning a whole day of hard work) -
no matter how my state of mind was at the time... Transpiration makes songs
too, not just inspiration!
Cheers,
-Roger
David
David Robinson <whiske...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B302734...@home.com...
>David Robinson wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it's almost that time of year again. July is just around the
>> corner, and this year--like last year--I will be starting the 50 Song
>> Challenge on July 4th.
>>
>Make it a one-song challenge for me. There have been occasional times
>when I have felt like writing songs without inspiration or a reason, but
>pretty rarely. I have to do that with ordinary words all day; another 36
>pages to fill, whatever... don't really want my songs to end up that way.
>
>I have only written one song in the last three months, and I haven't yet
>recorded it or posted it here. I have played it three or four times in
>public and it's the best I have ever done. People come up afterwards,
>remembering the name of the song, and say how much they liked it and
>want to talk about it.
>
>But I had to sit there for three months doing something else (learning
>baroque technique and reading 18th c manuscripts) to be rewarded by
>having something I so much needed to say that I could write a song worth hearing.
>
>Funny thing is I enjoy having one simple song which REALLY works for
>audiences than having a dozen more deliberately 'created' ones.
Sounds to me like you're editing at the wrong point in the process.
If you're cutting ideas off before they even get started because
you're "uninspired", then there are a lot of songs worth hearing that
you're not writing. It's perfectly OK to write a bad song. It's
perfectly OK to fail because in failing, you learn something.
Song writing is a skill. Inspiration is a skill. Don't look at these
50 songs as "songs" but as exercises and developing skillz that will
benefit you later as well as right now. Writing 50 songs in X days is
a good exercise because it develops the skill of looking for ideas
instead of waiting for the ideas to come to you as well as going
through the rest of the process of writing a song. When you do get an
inspiration for a song, do you want to write it like you've never
written a song before or do you want to feel comfortable doing it?
Like any of the many RMMS challenges, if you don't want to take part,
that's fine but do you really have to be such a wet blanket for
everydone else?
Last year I posted the lyrics on RMMS.
"Now. Does the 50 songs have to be totally new songs? I mean, not
songs that you've already got rough drafts for?"
Yes. 50 TOTALLY NEW songs. Not something you started writing 10 years
ago and have an itch to finish up. Start from scratch.
"And do we all have to start on 7/4? Can we start a little early?"
The Official challenge starts on 4 July, that way everybody has a common
starting point. But if you want to get warmed up, or taking a running
start at it...
"BTW, you can count me in."
You're on.
David
David,
Abolutely. You have nothing to lose, it costs nothing to enter. If you
come up with 5 great idewas that you can work out later, it's five more
ideas than you had when you started.
David
>"I think if you're in the challenge, you should at least post the
>titles of the 50 songs you've written along with the best one or two
>demos or lyrics."
>
>Last year I posted the lyrics on RMMS.
Cool.
>
>"Now. Does the 50 songs have to be totally new songs? I mean, not
>songs that you've already got rough drafts for?"
>
>Yes. 50 TOTALLY NEW songs. Not something you started writing 10 years
>ago and have an itch to finish up. Start from scratch.
Cool.
>
>"And do we all have to start on 7/4? Can we start a little early?"
>
>The Official challenge starts on 4 July, that way everybody has a common
>starting point. But if you want to get warmed up, or taking a running
>start at it...
Cool.
>
>"BTW, you can count me in."
>
>You're on.
Cool.
I'm in. In fact I already started (can't wait - need to make the most of my
mid year break!). Guess I'll finish 2 weeks before the rest of you. Might be
worth setting up a yahoogroup where everyone doing it can post their
lyrics - then they'll be archived. what do you reckon ?
Rob.
Are there any rules:
- in the number of tracks ?
- instrumentals allowed ?
- in length ?
--
Bruno
I'm not a pro, just psycho.
Propagating on rec.gardens.cacti
To reply, remove cactus from address
Ok, I'm really quite confused. Right now I have 20+ songs which I would put
on an album, and many other B-side and filler songs a lot of which I
wouldn't let anyone hear. It's taken me a year and a half to get this
collection, and I'm very proud of it.
Therefore, isn't 50 songs quantity over quality? Are these to be 50 *good*
songs, or are you expecting 49 of them to be "A D E D" songs? Is the
point of this to boost everyone's writing skills, or just to go for general
overkill on tracks that nobody will want to listen to ever again? They will
just go in a long list of "oh, I did that one to complete a
competition....yup, that one too...". This is cheating yourself as an
artist.
I reckon I could do it on my own, but a lot of the songs I would be
disgusted with myself for writing, and this would most likely make me
depressed. So what I'm asking is this - Is the challenge "50 songs in 90
days" or "50 good songs in 90 days"?
Sorry to pick it apart, I'm just interested as to what the outcome of this
is meant to be. If you can answer my questions, I'd be happy to join in.
--
Tags: af #1730
EAC Paradox Division
html help - http://www.limitwebdesign.co.uk/htmlhelp/
--
"I know I believe in nothing but it is my nothing"
Bit cold in here. Shut a window, would you?
>David Robinson wrote in message <3B302734...@home.com>...
>>Yes, it's almost that time of year again. July is just around the
>>corner, and this year--like last year--I will be starting the 50 Song
>>Challenge on July 4th.
>>
>>Ground rules are simple:
>>
>>Write 50 songs in 90 days.
><snip>
>
>Ok, I'm really quite confused. Right now I have 20+ songs which I would put
>on an album, and many other B-side and filler songs a lot of which I
>wouldn't let anyone hear. It's taken me a year and a half to get this
>collection, and I'm very proud of it.
Congratulations.
>
>Therefore, isn't 50 songs quantity over quality?
In a way, yes.
>Are these to be 50 *good*
>songs, or are you expecting 49 of them to be "A D E D" songs?
No. Try to make each song as good as you can. Don't try to go out
and write crap for the contest. Don't try to write cliche'd chord
progressions and melodies. TRY to make 50 songs that you'd like to
put on a CD.
>Is the
>point of this to boost everyone's writing skills, or just to go for general
>overkill on tracks that nobody will want to listen to ever again? They will
>just go in a long list of "oh, I did that one to complete a
>competition....yup, that one too...". This is cheating yourself as an
>artist.
The goal of this exercise is to gain skill at writing AND to learn to
write under a deadline. Lots of songwriters take their time writing
things and only write when the spirit moves them. A competition like
this teaches a songwriter the skillz to hunt down inspiration and
bestride it like a colossus of yore. Look at it this way, if you
concentrate and write ONE song in the next 90 days you will have gone
through the "process" exactly once. That's not a lot of practice at
developing melodies, harmonizing melodies, creating grooves,
developing song ideas, creating hooks, or just plain writing words.
Are some of the songs going to be crap? Yes. Is that a bad thing?
No. You think that your favorite songwriter never writes crappy
songs? You can learn a lot from writing a crappy song. A lot of
people have problems writing because they're afraid of writing a
crappy song. Do yourself a favor, write a crappy song today. But
don't let it count as one of your 50... because you're not supposed to
start, yet.
>
>I reckon I could do it on my own, but a lot of the songs I would be
>disgusted with myself for writing, and this would most likely make me
>depressed. So what I'm asking is this - Is the challenge "50 songs in 90
>days" or "50 good songs in 90 days"?
>
>Sorry to pick it apart, I'm just interested as to what the outcome of this
>is meant to be. If you can answer my questions, I'd be happy to join in.
Write 50 of the greatest songs that you've ever written and try to do
it in 90 days. Even if it's just 25 first drafts, 20 second drafts,
and 5 finished pieces. Or don't.
>I'm in !
>
>Are there any rules:
> - in the number of tracks ?
> - instrumentals allowed ?
> - in length ?
Just write 50 songs in 90 days.
Personally, I wouldn't write an instrumental for it, but that's just
me.
I think I might be able to complete the challenge with a little help from
Band-in-a-Box. If I set the Melodist feature on autopilot (or Jukebox as they
call it) it will generate 50 x 32-bar chord sequences (with an occasional
longer one thrown in) and create a melody which fits with each sequence, drawn
from a data-bank of melodic fragments which are matched to the chords according
to a set of rules. This will create 50 banal melodies, each complete with a
readymade backing track in up to 50 different musical styles, and take only one
morning - plus a little additional time saving each one to disk.
I could considerably customise the operation by resetting many of the default
parameters for the Melodist feature, so I could say I had at least
"collaborated" on the music. All I'd have to do then is create 50 matching
sets of banal lyrics, add a vocal track to the readymade backing, delete the
melody track and I'd have 50 new songs.
Of course I would have learned nothing much in the process, I would have
produced nothing worth keeping (as any BIAB owner can verify) and I would have
a lot of lyrics only suitable for a song pattern AABA 8+8+8+8 bars which is
little used today. But I would have made up the numbers. :-)
...NOT
Cheers
Frank.
Good idea. I'll set it up and post the URL here in a bit
Good for you. I've written about 1,300 songs over the last 30 years, and
I'm really quite pleased with how most of them came out.
"Therefore, isn't 50 songs quantity over quality? Are these to be 50
*good*
songs, or are you expecting 49 of them to be "A D E D" songs? Is the
point of this to boost everyone's writing skills, or just to go for
general
overkill on tracks that nobody will want to listen to ever again?"
To boost writing skills. Tracks are onot covered in the challenge--you
can record the songs if you want, but that's another matter all
together.
"They will just go in a long list of "oh, I did that one to complete a
competition....yup, that one too...". This is cheating yourself as an
artist."
We're not trying to be 'artists' here, we're trying to be writers. In
some ways, you're right: it's quantity over quality to a certain extent.
But you can make the 50 songs as good as you have the time and patience
for. No one cares if you ever show them to anyone else ever again, or
simply lock them up in a trunk and throw it up in your attic. Or salvage
as many useful ideas from them as you can later.
The original idea for the 50 Song Challenge came from Pat Pattison,
who mentioned he had once written 50 songs with Josh Leo over the course
of a summer. They were writing for a publisher, so the level of songs
they came up with had to be obviously pretty high. I thought it was a
neat little challenge, and decided to see if I could do it.
"I reckon I could do it on my own, but a lot of the songs I would be
disgusted with myself for writing, and this would most likely make me
depressed."
Don't hurt yourself. Some people shouldn't try this alone. The rest of
us are professional stunt drivers on a closed track...
"So what I'm asking is this - Is the challenge "50 songs in 90
days" or "50 good songs in 90 days"?"
50 Songs. 90 Days. Last year I worked out about a dozen songs I wound up
keeping. I would have settled for ten, or even one. Once I got started,
I kept working and writing for the rest of the year, right up until
December 22nd (my birthday). We could just make it 100 songs per
year...but then, people have a hard enough time embracing the concept of
50 songs in 90 days. The whole idea is to get the juices going and
flowing, to get yourself organized and motivated and focused.
"If you can answer my questions, I'd be happy to join in."
You're welcome to join at any time.
David
Personally, I wouldn't write an instrumental for it, but that's just
me."
OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, WATSON!!! You CAN'T write
instrumentals for a 50 Song Challenge. These have to be SONGS. In order
to qualify as a SONG, it has to have WORDS AND MUSIC. Music alone is an
instrumental composition; words alone are poetry.
How could you miss something so obvious?
I'm SOOOOOO dissappointed....
David
(by the way--we're on the honor system here. I assume we're all being
honest when we say we've written both words and music. I don't expect
anyone to record and post 50 tracks on MP3.com. Maybe if you wrote one
song or another that everybody liked and really wanted to hear, yoiu
might record it/post it/etc. But as a general rule, we should stick to
the honor system).
>> right up until
>December 22nd (my birthday).
December 22nd? Dude. You were like 2 days away from being truly
special.
Watson (born on December 24th) Davis
>"Just write 50 songs in 90 days.
>
>Personally, I wouldn't write an instrumental for it, but that's just
>me."
>
>
>OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, WATSON!!! You CAN'T write
>instrumentals for a 50 Song Challenge. These have to be SONGS. In order
>to qualify as a SONG, it has to have WORDS AND MUSIC. Music alone is an
>instrumental composition; words alone are poetry.
>
>How could you miss something so obvious?
>
>I'm SOOOOOO dissappointed....
OK. Fine. I guess it's NOT just me, then.
>
>David
>
>(by the way--we're on the honor system here. I assume we're all being
>honest when we say we've written both words and music. I don't expect
>anyone to record and post 50 tracks on MP3.com. Maybe if you wrote one
>song or another that everybody liked and really wanted to hear, yoiu
>might record it/post it/etc. But as a general rule, we should stick to
>the honor system).
I'll try to record at least a scratch version of everything.
But that's just me again.
Can I buy 50 tunes starting on the 4th? :-))))))))))
Richard
>(by the way--we're on the honor system here. I assume we're all being
>honest when we say we've written both words and music. I don't expect
>anyone to record and post 50 tracks on MP3.com. Maybe if you wrote one
>song or another that everybody liked and really wanted to hear, yoiu
>might record it/post it/etc. But as a general rule, we should stick to
>the honor system).
Songwriting & creative links
http://www.angelfire.com/music2/richhoncho/index.htm
A selection of RMMS people at
http://www.angelfire.com/music2/richhoncho/RMMS.htm
& 13 of my songs at
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/richhoncho.htm
Richard"
What's your credit card number and exp[iration date? I'll let you
know....
David
David"
Too late - you've been undercut - and Paul throws in his knighthood with the 50
songs.
Only trouble is I've also promised I'm a vegan :)
Richard
"Roger Häggström" <rog...@algonet.se> wrote in message
news:9gpr2v$s39$1...@zingo.tninet.se...
"Psycho cactus" <spamp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B319383...@home.com...
Well I guess I can't enter. About half of my songs are instrumental, and
the ones with words tend to have a maximum of only 2 verses and a chorus.
Some only have one line!
If you want me to write 50 songs in one day, then I can do it if all I
need is a one line lyric and a melody to fit it.
50 complete lyrics with music is a bit excessive, even by my prolific
standards. ;o(
And I see no point in writing 50 tracks if I don't even have to record
them. I think I'll just carry on as normal and record about 2 tracks every
three days, if that's alright with you.....
It's great to know that half of my songs aren't actually songs. ;o(
Try telling that to Elton John or Burt Bacharach.
--
Cheers, Arty ;-//)
http://www.smokinmusic.fsnet.co.uk
(Techno big beats in a disco stylee - now with Flash animations!)
Sorry, Arty. A song, by definition, has words and music. You need to
start a 50 Tracks In 50 Seconds competition.....
;0)
--
I was here last year when David went through his first 50 song/90 days
challenge. I was surprised first by his brashness in saying he was going to
attempt it and then was surprised by his success. David challenged himself
long before he challenged anyone else. Songwriters are wonderful folks, but
gosh, gang....just do it if you want to. Don't worry about whether it
conforms to David's rules (I'm pretty sure he doesn't care), and do it not
for him, but for you. If you can't do it, it doesn't mean you won't do it
later if you want to. You may learn you don't like the pressure. So what??
Some folks do, some folks don't. Nashville (the only real songwriting town
in my mind) is full of both kinds.
Here's some advice. Take it to heart or take it to the trash. David is in
Nashville in the music industry. He offered to do a free demo of the top 10
songs, decided by regular contributors to RMMS. He isn't looking for
anything from you. To me, that is a monumental offer when he has already
put himself under the pressure of 50 songs in 90 days. The folks in this
group can learn a lot from David Robinson about the music industry. If this
keeps up though, he may become one of those advice people who issues the
disclaimer "I regret I cannot answer individual questions."
About quantity vs. quality..........when I was into photography I learned
that professional photographers wait for hours in one place for one magic
shot. I also learned they may use 10 rolls of film for that one perfect
picture, and even then they may have to spend hours in the darkroom.
As for me, I may challenge myself to 5 songs in 50 days. At one time I
could do 90 songs in 50 days but it just ain't that important to me anymore.
In other words, I've gotten lazy and lost the fire.
>It's great to know that half of my songs aren't actually songs. ;o(
>Try telling that to Elton John or Burt Bacharach.
four words as illustration: Bernie Taupin, Hal David
(and there others they wrote with too)
Besides, you can't post lyrics to an instrumental.
David Robinson wrote in message
>
;^) for the apporpriate fee....it could happen
David
Now *that* would be a competition I could get excited about. ;o)
I still think, however, that Elton and Burt wouldn't be too chuffed if
you told them that they weren't songwriters. They'd probably hit you with
their wallets. ;o)
--
Arty ;-//)
I'm not a pro, just psycho.
Propagating on rec.gardens.cacti
To reply, remove cactus from address
I know that. But are you really claiming that Elton and Burt are *not*
songwriters, just because they only wrote the music?
> Besides, you can't post lyrics to an instrumental.
I could post the chords, tempo and topline melody, but I doubt it would be
very useful, as most of my songs go something like Am, Em, Am,
Em.....repeat ad nauseum. ;o)
--
Cheers, Arty ;-//)
Hear me "sing" at: http://www.smokinmusic.fsnet.co.uk
(Techno big beats in a disco stylee with Flash animations!)
And she left you. ;o)
--
Arty ;-//)
> Elton and Burt wouldn't be too chuffed if
>you told them that they weren't songwriters. They'd probably hit you with
>their wallets. ;o)
Forgive me, forgive me, but I can't resist.....................
elton would probably use his purse.
I know how you feel. Mine go D, G, A7 over and over. However, I did once
write a song with an F#m and an Em in it! That's 5 dang chords!
What were you trying to do, set 'War & Peace' to music?
Hmmmm.....the song WAS about 6 minutes long. It was longer at one time but
I cut it down but could never get it down below 6.