CDbaby: accounting & distribution discloser?????
Danny T
rich environment for the end user of CDbaby and that someone might
know where I might find the information publicly printed. I have tried
to contact CDbaby about this and have not received a response -thought
I may still, I just have not yet.
My issue is that I've been trying to find information about CDbaby's
distribution. I test marketed 2 old CD's to find out how things work
and after more then 1/2 a year I still can't make heads or tails of
it. I have made some money on sales though CDbaby but I cannot find a
list of who CDbaby has distributed the MP3's to anywhere. I can't find
a list of any kind other then a list of 20 companies you can opt into.
Of the 20 companies, I opted into all of them. I am still not showing
up in many of them. I can not find any form of open accounting. I
cannot find any form of requested accounting. I do find the songs/CD's
on multitudes of digital download sites that are not listed in the 20
that CD baby lists but have no way of confirming that CDbaby has
licensed them nor do I know if I make any monies off of sales from
these companies.
Basically, what I find is that there is less information here then
there ever was with major labels even way back when the majors were
ruling monarchs. I have found nothing to give me any information other
then I have to be a completely trusting fool with my intellectual
properties!
Does anyone know where any of this information is available? Does
anyone know where I may find a list of the companies that CDbaby does
business with?
Thanks for the help
Danny
Cydne Singer
I think that CDBaby is used for itunes ( as they go with third parites
rather than with just individuals ).
I luek here a little though haven't posted here in forever ( not wsince
the move ). Hope all is well with you and I would like to know that
information as well.
Cyd
~~~ http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/JustMySites/
~~~ Agitation spring cycle prior to the torrid heat of summer's desert
glare. Cocoon-like, I slumber in the hope of my ambition. Butterfly, a
kaleidoscope shining forth with a difiant creativity, I will fly into
new horizons with the return of who I am meant to be above the broken
debris of those who would chain me to their expectations. Friction: the
desert sand storms inside this flesh oyster of my slumbering reality.
The sheen of pearl shines to be yet discovered and recognized as the
treasure I know myself to be. 3-22-08 CHS Cathedral City
http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/ComfortSong/
Danny T
> Hi Danny,
> I think that CDBaby is used for itunes ( as they go with third parites
> rather than with just individuals ).
> I luek here a little though haven't posted here in forever ( not wsince
> the move ). Hope all is well with you and I would like to know that
> information as well.
> Cyd
>
Danny T
> I think that CDBaby is used for itunes ( as they go with third parites
> rather than with just individuals ).
> I luek here a little though haven't posted here in forever ( not wsince
> the move ). Hope all is well with you and I would like to know that
> information as well.
> Cyd
>
> ~~~ Agitation spring cycle prior to the torrid heat of summer's desert
> glare. Cocoon-like, I slumber in the hope of my ambition. Butterfly, a
> kaleidoscope shining forth with a difiant creativity, I will fly into
> new horizons with the return of who I am meant to be above the broken
> debris of those who would chain me to their expectations. Friction: the
> desert sand storms inside this flesh oyster of my slumbering reality.
> The sheen of pearl shines to be yet discovered and recognized as the
> treasure I know myself to be. 3-22-08 CHS Cathedral Cityhttp://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/ComfortSong/
Hi Cyd,
You know I've been reluctant to post anything anywhere for that
reason. I always preach to just sell your CD's but the online sales
thing, if kept honest, is a really good thing. The problem is that I
just can't get an answer out of CDbaby. I don't know that anyone has
actually asked them these questions before (well I know they have but
I don't think they have address them)
I'll post what they send me if they do -
Glad you moved (again) hope you can get out of the desert all together
someday.
Danny T
> I think that CDBaby is used for itunes ( as they go with third parites
> rather than with just individuals ).
> I luek here a little though haven't posted here in forever ( not wsince
> the move ). Hope all is well with you and I would like to know that
> information as well.
> Cyd
>
Rick Paul
"partner companies" for digital distribution at:
I'm not a CD Baby customer at this time, but from having seen some
discussions on these general topics on the MusicThoughts list on
Yahoogroups, I do know I've heard mixed stories on how long it can take to
get a release into various digital distribution channels, and that can
change over time as the companies do different things or go through problem
periods. However, they do seem to try and streamline things through the
most important of the companies, such as iTunes and a few others. I gather,
for example, that they are now down to just a few days with iTunes, which is
considerably better than TuneCore did with my most recent release (on the
order of 4 weeks).
I also know one of my friends, who does new age piano music and electronic
music, has done very well through CD Baby's digital distribution -- way
better than with physical CD sales, often with upwards of $1K a month.
He's shared a few of the reports for me as we've compared notes on various
related topics. They've always seemed pretty detailed, but only reflect
actual sales and numbers of downloads and/or streams, and the money made
from those, per channel -- i.e. they don't give end customer information.
I have also heard of some cases of download stores that aren't listed in the
CD Baby list showing up, and I think there are at least a few possibilities.
One is that some of the stores distribute through more than one end channel.
For example, MusicNet, which is now called MediaNet and no longer accepts
indie product (but the stuff that was already there continues to sell
through those channels), isn't itself a storefront, but does distribute
through channels such as Yahoo Music, MusicGremlin, HMV Digital, and others.
I know, though, that when I get my reports from TuneCore, they show both
that it was through MusicNet and what actual store it was from (e.g. MTVN,
which I believe is actually Urge). I believe the same is true of the CD
Baby reports from my vague recollections of the ones I was shown. The other
possibility is that someone separately could have pirated your material and
sent it to places other than through CD Baby. However, the CD Baby network
is pretty wide, so I suspect the former is more likely.
As for sales results, that is likely to depend on a combination of
accidental discovery and what you are doing to actively market your
downloads. I get extremely little sales for most of my songs, but I get a
decent number for my adaptation (original music plus slightly modified
words) of "The Lord's Prayer". Since I'm really not doing anything
different on the marketing front (very little to date), I have to attribute
that to happy accidents -- i.e. someone looking for "The Lord's Prayer" and
stumbling across my version, checking it out, and deciding to buy the
download. My friend gets pretty good numbers for his stuff, but he is very
active at marketing his stuff, with a pretty big mailing list, and also
includes marketing considerations in the titles of his pieces to make those
facilitate accidental discovery.
I'm not sure where you get the impression that there is less information in
the CD Baby reports than in stuff from major labels, but, based on what I've
seen from my friend, I'm highly skeptical. The only explanations I can
think of are that you're either not figuring out how to access your reports
(I'm guessing you need to login to your account at
https://members.cdbaby.com/login to access those, then download the reports
from there, but I'm not sure on that), or that there actually haven't been
many/any sales through the digital channels.
I know from my experience with TuneCore, that you only get data in their
reports when there are actual figures to report. I do get at least some
figures every month, but, for example, the last two months there was no data
from iTunes, and that basically just means I didn't sell any downloads
through iTunes for the months covered (I think they run a month or two
behind actual sales for iTunes, but some channels report quarterly, and I
think maybe even some half yearly). And individual releases might not get
any reports in any given month.
From most of the interactions I've seen, mostly on the MusicThoughts list,
the majority of CD Baby customers in those crowds give CD Baby very high
marks, so I'd be surprised if there were any major issues of the kinds you
are suspecting here, though there's always the possibility of some isolated
issue or something. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it.
Rick
--
=======================================
Rick Paul
Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP)
Web: www.RickPaul.info
MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic
=======================================
"Danny T" <danny...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:05f5bfbe-68c7-4085...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Danny T
> from there, but I'm not sure on that), or that there actually haven't been
> many/any sales through the digital channels.
>
> I know from my experience with TuneCore, that you only get data in their
> reports when there are actual figures to report. I do get at least some
> figures every month, but, for example, the last two months there was no data
> from iTunes, and that basically just means I didn't sell any downloads
> through iTunes for the months covered (I think they run a month or two
> behind actual sales for iTunes, but some channels report quarterly, and I
> think maybe even some half yearly). And individual releases might not get
> any reports in any given month.
>
> From most of the interactions I've seen, mostly on the MusicThoughts list,
> the majority of CD Baby customers in those crowds give CD Baby very high
> marks, so I'd be surprised if there were any major issues of the kinds you
> are suspecting here, though there's always the possibility of some isolated
> issue or something. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> =======================================
> Rick Paul
> Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP)
> Web:www.RickPaul.info
> MySpace:www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic
> =======================================
>
Hey RIck
The idea of not having information comes from the fact that you only
get a digital idea of what you have sold. What is needed is a view of
the actual bank accounting and records. I could tell you that I will
put your song up for sale, then tell you that you made 2 bucks and
you'd say cool. But what if you make 100 bucks and I an pocketing the
money without you knowing it. In the old days of record companies that
is what often happened. There were numerous legal actions taken over
that too. The thing that needs to happen is for the deposit record to
be given to the people with downloadable music. Each person and what
their percentage of earnings should be listed, the total amount of
money should be listed and then everyone can see if they are getting
their full pay.
Just telling me I made xxx dollars is not enough. I need the same type
of records I would get from a real record label. I don't have to check
it if I don't want to but if I do want to, it should be there.
BTW, still no word back from CDbaby on the email I sent them. You MUST
have an open book keeping policy to have be legitimate.
Rick Paul
> The idea of not having information comes from the fact that you only
> get a digital idea of what you have sold. What is needed is a view of
> the actual bank accounting and records. I could tell you that I will
> put your song up for sale, then tell you that you made 2 bucks and
> you'd say cool. But what if you make 100 bucks and I an pocketing the
> money without you knowing it. In the old days of record companies that
The way things work in this arena are a lot more straightforward. For
example, with iTunes, iTunes pays the aggregator 70 cents for every single
song download. It's always the same. I don't recall the amount for an
album download off the top of my head, but it's a similar thing in that the
amount they pay for a given album price download is always the same. In the
case of CD Baby, CD Baby has a fixed 9% commission on any amounts received
on your behalf. Thus, for example, if you've sold 10 tracks, that gets $7.00
to CD Baby from iTunes (Apple gets the other 29 cents per track from the
original 99 cent download, but some of that will obviously go toward credit
card processing fees, some may go to referral program commissions, etc.).
Of the $7, you will pocket $6.37 and CD Baby will get 63 cents.
I don't recall the details of the CD Baby reports I saw, but I know the
TuneCore reports I get show numbers of downloads, number of paid streams,
and rates for each -- also numbers of free streams for some applicable
services (check out the TuneCore FAQ at http://www.tunecore.com/index/faq
for a lot more explanation on how some of the most popular services work
with respect to payments).
The e-tailer is providing a digital record of downloads and/or streams by
ISRC (for tracks) and/or UPC (for albums) and pay rates. The math is
straighforward from there with the 9% commission. Everything is handled
electronically, and we're talking about extremely detailed tracking in the
sense of per ISRC totals for the accounting periods. This isn't the days
where a distributor gives the retailer extra LPs to help swing a deal and
writes them off to breakage or something.
Of course, you may not trust that the systems are transparent or correct,
but according to the CD Baby digital distribution contract
(http://cdbaby.net/dd-contract) the full accounting details applicable to
you are available to you and updated daily in your account area.
> is what often happened. There were numerous legal actions taken over
> that too. The thing that needs to happen is for the deposit record to
> be given to the people with downloadable music. Each person and what
> their percentage of earnings should be listed, the total amount of
> money should be listed and then everyone can see if they are getting
> their full pay.
In essence that is what you are getting, but only for what is applicable to
you. The total take for all artists isn't really any of your business, but
the detailed way the reports are made shows you what your products have
sold, and the math is straightforward if the 9% isn't directly reflected in
the reports (I don't recall). Keep in mind you are talking here about
frequently updated electronic transactions. It's a whole different ball of
wax from the days of paper invoices, net 90 (or whatever), and so on.
> Just telling me I made xxx dollars is not enough. I need the same type
> of records I would get from a real record label. I don't have to check
> it if I don't want to but if I do want to, it should be there.
In essence, I'm pretty sure that is what you are getting. Maybe even more.
That is you are getting detailed records of transactions from each e-tailer
for any sales your products have made through those e-tailers.
> BTW, still no word back from CDbaby on the email I sent them. You MUST
> have an open book keeping policy to have be legitimate.
Again, in essence, this is what you are getting. There are only two
possible points of contention:
1) The e-tailers aren't accurately tracking/reporting sales to CD Baby.
That would be a contractual issue between CD Baby and the e-tailer, and, if
CD Baby suspected an issue in that area, I'd think it would also be in their
interests to get it resolved since their 9% commission would be affected
just like the results to you -- i.e. you and CD Baby are on the same side in
this case.
2) CD Baby's system is broken, whether intentionally (i.e. to try to
cheat you to keep more money for themselves) or unintentionally (e.g. due to
software bugs). Given the detailed nature of the transaction reports, and
that these are electronic transactions, the only way for this to be the case
would be if the systems were deleting records or altering quantities and/or
(per download/per stream) payment amounts. On the latter, a little research
should be able to satisfy you fairly quickly as to whether their are issues.
For example, the TuneCore FAQ I mentioned above provides pay rates for some
of the most popular e-tailers. On the former, if you have reason to believe
there is an issue, it seems you would need to either approach CD Baby with
your questions or take legal action and count on that to get you access to
any higher level accounting data.
CD Baby is certainly a legit company, though, and they've benefited many
independent bands and artists.
Cydne Singer
people will click on the preformer's website to find their original
material if they liked the cover tune. Your variant of The Lord's Prayer
seems like a case in point. So for promotion purposes it might be good
to either record a cover of a popular standard ( and pay whatever fee to
Harry Fox ) or do a public domain cover of a song that is still popular.
Cyd
~~~ http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/JustMySites/
Rick Paul
"Cydne Singer" <Cynth...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:20093-480...@storefull-3176.bay.webtv.net...
> Rick, I have heard that if one records a cover that they sometimes find
> people will click on the preformer's website to find their original
> material if they liked the cover tune. Your variant of The Lord's Prayer
> seems like a case in point. So for promotion purposes it might be good
> to either record a cover of a popular standard ( and pay whatever fee to
> Harry Fox ) or do a public domain cover of a song that is still popular.
Yeah, that's something I"ll consider for the future. My first three
releases are two singles ("The Lord's Prayer" and "Bubble Gum") and a
4-original song Christmas EP ("That Time of Year"). I'd originally hoped to
do some public domain Christmas classics on the Christmas thing (and maybe
even do a full-length album), but simply ran out of time, and the reason for
those isolated releases are that they really don't fit with any album
concept I have in mind in the near-to-medium term for my more typical
material.
I had actually recorded one cover, for other purposes, and was looking into
licensing it. However, it turns out it isn't one of the ones you can do
through HFA, nor does the publisher have an on-line presence, so it would
get down to telephone calls and snail mail. Someday I'll get around to
tackling that, but, for now, it doesn't really fit my current album concept,
either, plus adding a cover might complicate which e-stores I could put it
in (e.g. due to geographic restrictions on a license), so I'll likely stick
with just originals for my upcoming album, though perhaps I could consider
doing a public domain song. More likely, though, I may do separate releases
for that kind of stuff as I do have a few concepts in mind for pure public
domain material albums ... if I ever get enough time to start
experimenting...
I also need to put some time into just figuring out (and applying) the
mechanics of promoting what I have out, especially once the album comes out
(still TBD on timing, though hopefully sometime this year -- I'm likely to
have one double single, both songs duets with Beverly Bremers, before then,
though, hopefully before the end of this quarter year on the duets), through
the blogosphere, podcasts, etc. All that stuff takes time, though, and, at
least for now, I've been concentrating on trying to get the creative work
done for an album first, as I also think having a bigger body of related
material may be important so that someone who likes one track has a better
chance of finding other tracks that may suit them. Whereas right now, the
stuff I have out is fairly disjointed, with a gospel song, a 60's style
bubblegum pop rocker, and the Christmas material (which itself ranges a bit
in musical style). For example, someone who initially finds me through "The
Lord's Prayer" probably doesn't have particularly high odds of being drawn
to "Bubble Gum", and vice versa. The Christmas stuff is closer to my
mainstream, but obviously extremely seasonal.
Rick
--
=======================================
Rick Paul
Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP)
Web: www.RickPaul.info
MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic
=======================================
Rick
Woody Brison
> Rick, I have heard that if one records a cover that they sometimes find
> people will click on the preformer's website to find their original
> material if they liked the cover tune. Your variant of The Lord's Prayer
> seems like a case in point.
Do you know where to click for the original on the Lord's
prayer?
I was wondering if it would be possible to just take say
$50 and buy 50 copies of a certain track, and see if
CDbaby's report shows up with 50 copies more than usual
for that period. You could buy them from iTunes or
wherever and see if the sales pass over into CDbaby.
Since you get 64 cents back on the dollar, it makes it
a real possible thing to do, I would think.
With iTunes you get an electronic reciept for every
track you buy and you could use that as evidence in
confronting them if it doesn't add up, I don't know
about other services.
Wood
Danny T
Damn Wood,
Such a simple idea and I swear it never even crossed my mine! That is
a fantastic idea and I think I will do it.... though I will likely do
it through a sub-distributor since I itunes does a variety of sales
numbers and it changes all the time .
When I did hear back from itunes, not long ago, I got a very strong
sounding email stating that everything I was looking for was in the
digital section of their web site. The fact is that there is nothing
like what I asked for and I completely clicked and went through every
link they offered. I spent a good 3 hours making sure I did it right.
Still, I'm not accusing them but you would think they would have an
open book policy for at least a complete list of who has my tunes. I
couldn't even match that up. The benefits are there but I am beginning
to think it is better to go through someone other then CDbaby.
I'm still weighing my options for a long term commitment.
Rick Paul
news:ba74dc8d-0fac-4050...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 15, 2:42 pm, Cynthian...@webtv.net (Cydne Singer) wrote:
>> Rick, I have heard that if one records a cover that they sometimes find
>> people will click on the preformer's website to find their original
>> material if they liked the cover tune. Your variant of The Lord's Prayer
>> seems like a case in point.
>
> Do you know where to click for the original on the Lord's
> prayer?
The Bible, in Matthew 6? ;-) (Here's one link:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=6&version=31&context=chapter.)
Oh, you meant a song? I really don't know what "the original" means with
respect to musical versions of "The Lord's Prayer", but I do know I've heard
quite a number of different versions.
Just in case it wasn't clear from the note you're referencing, the version I
did was completely original music, not just an arrangement of some another
version. I made a few minor tweaks to the standard prayer on the lyrical
side, but nothing terribly major in that department. If you want to hear
it, here's a URL that has links to all the stores I'm aware of that allow
linking directly to an album:
www.rickpaul.info/rpstore.html
I know you can listen to the full-length thing on Rhapsody and Digital
Rodeo.
Woody Brison
> "Woody Brison" <woody.bri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ba74dc8d-0fac-4050...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Apr 15, 2:42 pm, Cynthian...@webtv.net (Cydne Singer) wrote:
> >> Rick, I have heard that if one records a cover that they sometimes find
> >> people will click on the preformer's website to find their original
> >> material if they liked the cover tune. Your variant of The Lord's Prayer
> >> seems like a case in point.
>
> > Do you know where to click for the original on the Lord's
> > prayer?
>
>
> Oh, you meant a song?
Yeah, I forgot to put a wink mark ;)
>... I really don't know what "the original" means with
> respect to musical versions of "The Lord's Prayer", but I do know I've heard
> quite a number of different versions.
>
> Just in case it wasn't clear from the note you're referencing, the version I
> did was completely original music, not just an arrangement of some another
> version. I made a few minor tweaks to the standard prayer on the lyrical
> side, but nothing terribly major in that department.
I'm all in favor of artists and poets building on previous
material. It's a very fine old tradition. See Isaiah 2:2-4,
compared to Micah 4:1-3. There is some thought that
these passages were sung - they are today in synagogues
I understand - and it would appear that these old poets
or songwriters or prophets or bards were using each
other's material (with no worries about copyright issues)
>... If you want to hear
> it, here's a URL that has links to all the stores I'm aware of that allow
> linking directly to an album:
>
> www.rickpaul.info/rpstore.html
>
> I know you can listen to the full-length thing on Rhapsody and Digital
> Rodeo.
Wow, not bad! The changes you made to the words are OK
with me too.
Wood
Rick Paul
> I'm all in favor of artists and poets building on previous
> material. It's a very fine old tradition. See Isaiah 2:2-4,
> compared to Micah 4:1-3. There is some thought that
> these passages were sung - they are today in synagogues
> I understand - and it would appear that these old poets
> or songwriters or prophets or bards were using each
> other's material (with no worries about copyright issues)
Well, if I remember correctly, David is the first documented songwriter from
the Bible, and I believe the Psalms even had some cues in there for which
instruments should be used in some cases.
>>... If you want to hear
>> it, here's a URL that has links to all the stores I'm aware of that allow
>> linking directly to an album:
>>
>> www.rickpaul.info/rpstore.html
>>
>> I know you can listen to the full-length thing on Rhapsody and Digital
>> Rodeo.
>
> Wow, not bad! The changes you made to the words are OK
> with me too.
Thanks. The writing side of this is something I did a very long time ago --
back around 1982 when I was in college. The folk group at our Newman Center
in Potsdam, NY was actually the first to perform it. Then my brother did at
my wedding in the LA area in 1983, and it pretty much sat on the shelf after
that, though I'd play it occasionally in my living room. It wasn't until
the start of the latest Iraq war when, for whatever reason, I decided to
pull it out to play at one of my Borders shows here in Orange County, CA. I
was very pleasantly surprised that, even in that secular environment, it
went over really well, and I've been making it a regular part of my
full-length shows ever since. I first recorded it a few years back so my
wife could use it at some sort of meditation she was supposed to lead at
work (she works for a hospital in a chain of Catholic hospitals), then
tweaked it a bit from there.
Gill.Sm...@googlemail.com
> The way things work in this arena are a lot more straightforward. For
> example, with iTunes, iTunes pays the aggregator 70 cents for every single
> song download. It's always the same. I don't recall the amount for an
> album download off the top of my head, but it's a similar thing in that the
> amount they pay for a given album price download is always the same. In the
> case of CD Baby, CD Baby has a fixed 9% commission on any amounts received
> on your behalf. Thus, for example, if you've sold 10 tracks, that gets $7.00
> to CD Baby from iTunes (Apple gets the other 29 cents per track from the
> original 99 cent download, but some of that will obviously go toward credit
> card processing fees, some may go to referral program commissions, etc.).
> Of the $7, you will pocket $6.37 and CD Baby will get 63 cents.
How very apposite this thread is.
At this very moment I'm soliciting a singer for my backing tracks and,
because I've no money for demos - and hate performing live - I'm
offering a cut of any royalties from iTunes/whatever.
A cyber-band - which isn't a new concept.