Fix for Very Sharp Low Bb on Selmer BA?
James Simpson
natural, nearly 1/4 tone sharp on Bb and about half that sharp on B. It's
almost impossible to lip this down enough to get it in tune. Can this be
fixed without a major overhaul? Since all the keys are closed for Bb, it
seems like the only solution would be to open the bell bow and somehow
lengthen it, which sounds terrible. All the other notes are reasonably in
tune. I love this horn, but ... any ideas? Thanks,
James
JC
> From: "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com>
> Organization: OWDS Inc.
> Reply-To: "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.saxophone,alt.music.saxophone
> Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 19:25:38 -0700
> Subject: Fix for Very Sharp Low Bb on Selmer BA?
Jim Buchholz
1. Try a different mouthpiece and see if intonation improves. Sometimes a
bigger baffle mouthpiece does make a change.
2. Try out some other necks; borrow any neck that might fit--- other selmer
necks, maybe some Yamaha necks. On my Buescher there were three size necks
back in 1936, nr 1 and 2 and 3. On my daughter's Mark VI alto Yamaha necks
did fit. Even if the octave key does not work try the neck. You can tape the
octave key hole to play the low notes.
3. Air leaks in the instrument can distort intonation. Also remember there
are intune Selmers and out-of tune instruments even for Mark VI instruments.
4. Try different strength reeds----they also can make a difference on the
instruments.
If all else fails have some other players try your instrument with their
set-ups and see if they are also sharp in the low range.
jim buchholz
****************************
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b91m7m$cc8$1...@news.chatlink.com...
JC
purchased my BA tenor (23.xxx) four years ago, but in my case especially the
low C# and C seemed very sharp for a long while. In soft passages I also
found that I had to lip down low B and Bb to an almost impossible degree.
After lots of woodshedding and getting familiar with the characteristics of
the horn the problems disappeared and I finally came to the conclusion that
it had been my own technical imperfection all along (please don't take this
as an offense: your BA might have a totally different story to it). It
probably had something to do with not playing from my diaphragm and
unconsciously using some muscles in the throat.
A succesful dutch saxophonist tried my horn once and when I asked him about
the intonation of the lower register he told me that it played very much in
tune from top to bottom (and added that I should never ever sell the horn
unless I would sell it to him).
What mouthpiece do you use? I have been trying out several pieces on my BA
but have always come back to my metal Link 7* (which has a somewhat larger
bore than the newer Links that I find in stores). With the Link I can play
these low notes nowadays and play relaxed, but whenever I try another
mouthpiece (that almost always has a smaller chamber than a Link) the
difficulties with intonation present themselves again and I start
struggling.
IMHO I think that a large chamber mouthpiece like a metal Link is the
mouthpiece of choice for an old BA. At least that is what works best for me.
I hope this info can be of some use to you and wish you as much joy with
your BA as I have playing mine.
> From: "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com>
> Organization: OWDS Inc.
> Reply-To: "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.saxophone,alt.music.saxophone
> Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 19:25:38 -0700
> Subject: Fix for Very Sharp Low Bb on Selmer BA?
>
bill g
trusty old Link(s). I recently switched to a Morgan 7EL and can speak these
notes normally now. I don't play everyday, not for years now, so that may
be why the Links were "difficult".
bill g
"JC" <balanced_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > as an offense:
your BA might have a totally different story to it). It
Jack
Wonderful saxophone; stick with it and good luck. I'll bet it's not the
horn. "JC" <balanced_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BADA4D94.499B4%balanced_...@hotmail.com...
Toby
by Rheuben from the old Sax Shoppe in LA that this was common to the BAs. He
mentioned things like dropping candle wax into the bow....
Toby
"JC" <balanced_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BADA4D94.499B4%balanced_...@hotmail.com...
Mark Bushaw
After trying different mouthpieces and different horns, I tried raising the
key heights on the left and right hand stacks. This brought the whole horn
in tune. I guess that it wasn't that the low notes were sharp, it was that
most of the horn was flat!
Mark Bushaw
James Simpson
news:BADA4D94.499B4%balanced_...@hotmail.com...
> Is your Selmer BA a tenor?
No, it's an alto, and it was relacquered at some point, but a very nice dark
relacquer. The sailboat scene on the bell is beautiful, prettier than any
picture I've seen of other BA's engraving. It plays like a dream compared to
my 1973 Mark VI, which always seemed to fight me on playing low notes
softly. With my BA, I can play low notes very softly, even subtone, and the
low C#, B, and Bb keys are very easy to push, so that going chromatically
from C down to Bb is very easy and smooth, again quite unlike my Mark VI,
which required a lot more work to get low notes to speak when playing
softly.
< I experienced similar problems when I had
> purchased my BA tenor (23.xxx) four years ago, but in my case especially
> the low C# and C seemed very sharp for a long while. In soft passages I
also
> found that I had to lip down low B and Bb to an almost impossible degree.
> After lots of woodshedding and getting familiar with the characteristics
> of the horn the problems disappeared and I finally came to the conclusion
> that it had been my own technical imperfection all along (please don't
take
> this as an offense: your BA might have a totally different story to it).
It
> probably had something to do with not playing from my diaphragm and
> unconsciously using some muscles in the throat.
I thought about that, and have consciously made sure I play from my
diaphragm and keep my throat open. Using an electronic tuner, no matter what
changes I make in my embouchure or throat, I have to lip low Bb and B down
to an extreme degree. In fact, it's almost not possible to lip it down
enough to get these notes in tune. I've read the same thing that Toby noted,
that it's common for BAs to be sharp on the lowest notes. I've also read
that one of the few changes in the Super BA was to lengthen the bell
slightly to get these low notes in tune (I think I read this at cybersax.com
or vintagesax.com, but can't find it now).
> A succesful dutch saxophonist tried my horn once and when I asked him
> about the intonation of the lower register he told me that it played very
much
> in tune from top to bottom (and added that I should never ever sell the
horn
> unless I would sell it to him).
> What mouthpiece do you use? I have been trying out several pieces on my BA
> but have always come back to my metal Link 7* (which has a somewhat larger
> bore than the newer Links that I find in stores). With the Link I can play
> these low notes nowadays and play relaxed, but whenever I try another
> mouthpiece (that almost always has a smaller chamber than a Link) the
> difficulties with intonation present themselves again and I start
> struggling.
> IMHO I think that a large chamber mouthpiece like a metal Link is the
> mouthpiece of choice for an old BA. At least that is what works best for
> me.
I use a Selmer C* "scroll" mouthpiece or a Larry Teal C*, both very closed,
with a dark, round sound. I've tried metal mouthpieces and other "bright"
sounding mouthpieces, but I much prefer a dark, Paul Desmond-like, classical
tone (I've been told I sound like Desmond).
> I hope this info can be of some use to you and wish you as much joy with
> your BA as I have playing mine.
Believe me, I love my BA. As I said, it doesn't "fight" me the way my Mark
VI seemed to, and the keywork seems tighter and smoother. It's my dream
horn, it feels like it was made for my hands. I will never sell this horn.
Thanks again,
James
James Simpson
news:3eb52d30$0$384$45be...@newscene.com...
> It may be the mpc, it may be the way you are playing the mpc, but I was
told
> by Rheuben from the old Sax Shoppe in LA that this was common to the BAs.
He
> mentioned things like dropping candle wax into the bow....
Do you know anything more about dropping candle wax into the bow to bring
low B and Bb into tune, how to do it or who could do it? Is the old Sax
Shoppe still open? I couldn't find it on the web. Thanks,
James
Scott J. Tringali
first...
Check the screw that holds the felt on your low Bb. Perhaps the felt is
compressed and it rises too high? Try lowering it a bit.
One cheap trick I saw, just last evening, was an alto saxophonist made a small
cylinder out of bubble wrap perhaps 3 inches long, and placed it inside the
bell, just below the flare but above the keys. It was just large enough to
stay in there with physical pressure and nothing else. He then demonstrated
how it brought his low Bb back into tune. I would suspect any material would
work as long as it's of a similar thickness.
Try a different a mouthpiece. Older horns sometimes have different bore sizes
and modern mouthpieces won't work as well.
MusicMedic.com
a fresh overhaul (not me) but did not play well. The lowest tones were
a mess. I was able to adjust the key heights and get the horn better
in tune but the low B and Bb remained out of whack.
In my experience: Putting something down the bell will lower the
intonation a little but it may also cause problems with the tone. I
have had the best luck putting a piece of cork (shaped like a oval) on
the top of the bow (inside the bore) of the horn. This will bring the
intonation down some but be careful of what it does to low C#, low F
and Low F#. This is really a fix for that low tone warble that folks
get, the fact that it lowers the itch a little is a symptom of that
cure.
To test the usefulness of this procedure, just drop something down the
bell like a wine cork and play into a tuner. Try different size things
and pieces.
If this does not work, there are other things that can be done. The
low B can be lowered by way of a tone hole liner and the low Bb can be
lowered using some mole skin placed in the Bell past the low Bb tone
hole. Your best to fix the low Bb first then the B.
Now, Mp, air support et. all are important and may be the problem but
if it is the horn (and sometimes it is) it may be fixable.
Good Luck!
Curt Altarac
Cu...@MusicMedic.com
www.MusicMedic.com
Toby
works too. This is surely a better fix than dropping something into the bow.
Before you go to all this trouble check another horn and make sure that you
are not just using too tight an embouchure. That will tend to raise the
lowest notes more than the octave above.
Toby
"MusicMedic.com" <Cu...@musicmedic.com> wrote in message
news:eecd8660.0305...@posting.google.com...
Toby
Anything that reduces the diameter of the bow could work. It should be
reasonably hard and smooth. You might try first putting a ball of modelling
clay or Play-Doh down there to see if anything advantageous happens.
Modelling clay is notoriously sticky though--if it gets on the walls it will
be quite hard to remove, so better to use something water soluble like
Play-Doh.
Any repairmen out there ever tried this?
Toby
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b943q1$s4m$1...@news.chatlink.com...
Bob
I heard he is doing repairs somewhere but I forgot which place. I'm sure
Oleg would know.
Lengthening the bell certainly would work; I wonder how practical that would
be. Unsolder the joint and slip it out a bit, I suppose.
Many saxes play a bit sharp in the lowest notes; they must try to save on
brass and shipping weight.
You can also add some length to the bell by putting an object into it or
clipping a baffle to the end. It would look bad and wouldn't stay put nor
fit into the case. Another method would be to unroll some of the brass at
the opening of the bell. Not a simple job.
James Simpson
news:hjidndBgxbj...@cnmnetwork.com...
> Rheuben Allen is still around, although his place, the Sax Shoppe is gone.
> I heard he is doing repairs somewhere but I forgot which place. I'm sure
> Oleg would know.
I see that Rheuben has a website: http://www.rheuben.com/ At least, I
guess this is the same Rheuben Allen from the Sax Shoppe.