What does Eb (alto) saxophone mean???
The Gare
I thought it was just the range...
I'm new to the sax (alto) and was trying to practice scales
on it along with the computer. When I put a scale on the computer
and play it on the sax, it's WAY different. According to finger
charts, what I'm doing is a C but on the c'puter, I have to use
an Eb to get the same sound.
Is it because it's an Eb saxophone? Am I supposed to
compensate? Am I more stupid than confused???
I just had took it to the music store for a quick tuning... so
that should be fine.
Later,
Gary - the...@bigfoot.com
Craig Dickson
> I'm new to the sax (alto) and was trying to practice scales
>on it along with the computer. When I put a scale on the computer
>and play it on the sax, it's WAY different. According to finger
>charts, what I'm doing is a C but on the c'puter, I have to use
>an Eb to get the same sound.
The saxophone, like many brass instruments, is a transposing instrument.
This means that our pitch names are not in alignment with "normal"
instruments such as piano or violin (or with transposing instruments that
transpose differently).
When we say that an instrument is "in Eb", we mean that when you play a C
on that instrument, you actually hear what is normally called Eb.
Sopranino, alto, baritone, and contrabass saxophones are in Eb. Soprano,
tenor, and bass saxophones are in Bb, meaning that when you play C on them,
you hear Bb.
This is why, in orchestral scores, the parts for the brasses and some
woodwinds (such as saxophone and cor anglais) are written in different keys
than those for non-transposing instruments such as violins. If a piece is
nominally in, say, C minor, the Bb instruments have to play in D minor, the
Eb instruments in A minor, and the F instruments in G minor, to sound the
right notes.
There are historical reasons for transposition, but for the saxophone
family part of the point of it is to make it easier for musicians to move
from one saxophone voice to another without re-learning how to sight read.
Learning alto saxophone, you've learned that when you see (for instance) a
written low D, you press down the first three fingers of both hands. If you
were to pick up a tenor sax, you would do the same; you don't need to learn
a new set of written-note-to-fingering correspondences. The actual note you
hear, however, will be different; the alto plays F, and the tenor plays C.
The composer or arranger has to know how to transpose each instrument's
part when writing a score.
Craig
John Rooker
The Gare wrote in message <74p8lf$q4v$1...@remarQ.com>...
>Hi,
>
>I thought it was just the range...
>
>on it along with the computer. When I put a scale on the computer
>and play it on the sax, it's WAY different. According to finger
>charts, what I'm doing is a C but on the c'puter, I have to use
>an Eb to get the same sound.
>
>compensate? Am I more stupid than confused???
Here's a quote from the rec.music.makers.saxophnoe FAQ that should answer
your question:
--------------------
Why the different sizes? Well, even though they have the same fingerings and
can play notes from low Bb to high F#, the registers are very different, and
the tone is noticeably altered from one to the next. Remember that
saxophones are transposing instruments: soprano and tenor are Bb
instruments, with soprano being one octave higher than tenor. Baritone and
alto are both Eb instruments. This means that if you play a C on a
saxophone, the note which a pianist would play to match your note would
either be a Bb or Eb, depending on the sax. This is quite a common thing in
orchestras: clarinets, trumpets, horns, double-reed instruments and the
likes all have to have music written appropriately to make them sound the
correct notes. The background to this is historical, but it does for
instance mean that you can buy a tutorial book written for `saxophone' and
it will be applicable to all of the different sizes. Accompanying
instruments will have to transpose if you don't, however.
-----------------------
Jason Mendoza
> I'm new to the sax (alto) and was trying to practice scales
>on it along with the computer. When I put a scale on the computer
>and play it on the sax, it's WAY different. According to finger
>charts, what I'm doing is a C but on the c'puter, I have to use
>an Eb to get the same sound.
Its because the computer is probably acting like a C instrument. Alto
Saxophone(well, all saxes except the C-melody) are transposing instruments
so you do have to compensate. To make the computer compensate, just find out
what concert the scale is written in, and make the computer play that scale.
Example:
You are playing a Concert C scale, or for you, your A scale that has three
sharps. Make the computer play your C scale, with all naturals, while you
play the Concert C scale(again, your A with 3 sharps) and it will sound
right.
Hope I helped
Jason Mendoza
Poteet HS, Mesquite TX - Tenor Saxamophone
Defending Texas State 4A Marching Band Champions
http://www.biogate.com/pirateband
The Gare
excellent information. I guess I don't feel as stupid as I
thought I sounded since I did use the word "compensate" when the
correct word was "transpose"...
FYI - ALL your replies are gettin' cut/pasted into a digital
scrapbook for later recall, not to mention for my future album
covers when I become famous <tee hee>...
As far as the computer program, I've used the Xpose feature
(sharpened the scale x 3) and it did instantly exactly what would
have taken me 3 minutes to do by rewriting. It's just a short
scale...
-------
I'm such a newbie as far as sight-reading anything goes. I am
determined to learn, through self-teaching, EVERYTHING that it
takes to be as adept as I want to be... and I'm a 34 y/o Virgoan
perfectionist... <tee hee>
Thanks again,
Gary
"My ex-wife always called me a saxist, now I AM one!" <smile>
Jason Mendoza <lmen...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:7tXb2.1$AS...@news.flash.net...
McMike
http://www.bluecats.demon.co.uk/transpos.htm
pretty much explains it all...
McMike
--
for reply remove *nospam*
from e-mail domain name
Jason Mendoza wrote in message <7tXb2.1$AS...@news.flash.net>...
Gary Morrison
> Saxophone(well, all saxes except the C-melody) are transposing instruments
> so you do have to compensate.
Actually, to be exactly correct, the C melody *IS* a transposing
instrument; it transposes down an octave, as do guitar, bass, contrabassoon,
and a few others.
Gary Morrison
> compensate? Am I more stupid than confused???
Yes, that's correct. The alto transposes down a major sixth (9
half-steps). So, when you play what is notated as second-space (from the
top) C, it sounds bottom-line Eb. C is the notated pitch, and Eb is called
the "concert" pitch.
Here are some other transposition factors:
Up a minor ninth (octave and a half-step) - key of Db:
* Db piccolo (thankfully rare now, but very common the first half of the
20th century).
Up an octave - key of C:
* C piccolo.
Up a minor third (three half-steps) - key of Eb:
* Eb clarinet, sopranino saxophone, Eb flute (rare).
Up a whole step - key of D:
* D horn (rare).
No transposition - key of C:
* Violin, viola, 'cello, bassoon, the usual concert flute, oboe, trombone,
tuba, baritone horn in bass-clef.
Down a whole-step - key of Bb:
* Soprano sax, Bb clarinet, the usual trumpet and cornet.
Down a perfect fourth (5 half-steps) - key of G:
* Alto flute
Down a perfect fifth (7 half-steps) - key of F:
* F. Horn, english horn, bassett horn (more or less an alto clarinet with a
Bb clarinet's bore diameter - common in the classical era, but
comparatively rare now).
Down a major sixth (9 half-steps) - key of Eb:
* Alto saxophone, alto clarinet.
Down an octave - key of C:
* Guitar, string bass, bass guitar, contrabassoon, bass flute, C-melody
sax.
Down a major ninth (octave and a whole step) - key of Bb:
* Tenor sax, bass clarinet, baritone horn in treble clef.
Down a major 13th (octave and a major sixth) - key of Eb:
* Bari sax, Eb contrabass clarinet. Interestingly, by the way, this
transposition looks the same, except for the key change, as playing
treble-clef parts in bass clef. In other words, the second-space C notated
pitch on these instruments sounds like the Eb notate in the same spot on
the bass clef! For example, bassoon and bari sax parts playing the same
pitches are notated on the same positions on their staves, except that the
bassoon part has three more flats (or three fewer sharps).
Down two octaves and a major second - key of Bb:
* Bass sax, Bb contrabass clarinet.
Gary Morrison
The purpose of course of transposing instruments is to create a family
of instruments in a variety of pitch ranges all of which can play the same
fingerings from the same music. This was not always done this way though.
Recorders have pretty much the same fingerings - a chromatic scale from all
the way up the horn is fingered identically, but do not play from the same
notes - notated or concert. Alto and tenor recorders are both
nontransposing instruments (the only two nontransposing recorders - the
others transpose by one or more octaves, and play in different clefs), but
the lowest note on the tenor is notated as the C below the treble staff,
and the lowest note on the alto is the bottom-space F.
The now fairly-rare C soprano is the only completely nontransposing
saxophone.
Another important transposition factor I forgot to mention in my table
is a minor third down, which is used in the A clarinet and oboe d'amore.
The A clarinet is fairly common in orchestral work as a means of knocking
out lots of sharps (although I suspect that clarinetists wouldn't admit to
that being the motivation!).
Another important octave-up transposer I forgot to mention is the C
piccolo trumpet.
"Natural" brasses - trumpets and especially horns - changed
transposition factors on a per-composition basis! Until the mid-1800s,
french horns had no valves, and were transposed to the key of the
composition by inserting a "crook" between the mouthpiece and the body of
the horn. So, for example, if the composition was in the key of D, they
would insert a D-crook into the horn, which would tune it to a
transposition of D (two steps up, or more likely 10 steps down). (I don't
know for certain, but I kinda doubt if orchestral brass players in
classical times would have literally 12 crooks though; I suspect that
they'd occasionally use the same crook for related keys, like a fifth up or
down.)
Richard Bush
Great post!
Hope those interested will be smart and copy it off the NG.
Since you were so complete (almost), let me add my two cents.
Oboe De Amour (sp?) Half way between an oboe and English horn. Pitched in A.
Sounds a minor third lower and must be transposed the same distance in the
opposite direction.
Soprano clarinet in A. Common in symphonic orchestral playing. Ditto as above.
Matthew W. Damick
[snipped the Great Post!]
: Hope those interested will be smart and copy it off the NG.
:
: Since you were so complete (almost), let me add my two cents.
:
: Oboe De Amour (sp?) Half way between an oboe and English horn. Pitched in A.
: Sounds a minor third lower and must be transposed the same distance in the
: opposite direction.
:
: Soprano clarinet in A. Common in symphonic orchestral playing. Ditto as above.
Let's not forget Recorders. :)
The sopranino, alto, and bass are all in F, and the soprano, tenor, and
great/contra bass are all in C.
--
/_\ /_\ HH HH AAA ZZZZZ M M AAA TTTTTT TTTTTT /_\ /_\
O HHHHH AA AA Z == MM MM AA AA TT TT O
/_\ HHHHH AAAAA ZZ == MMMMM AAAAA TT TT /_\
mwdamick@ HH HH AA AA ZZZZZ M M M AA AA TT TT eos.ncsu.edu
Malcolm Tattersall
>
> Richard Bush (rbushi...@uswest.net) wrote:
>
> [snipped the Great Post!]
>
> : Hope those interested will be smart and copy it off the NG.
> :
> : Since you were so complete (almost), let me add my two cents.
> :
> : Oboe De Amour (sp?) Half way between an oboe and English horn. Pitched in A.
> : Sounds a minor third lower and must be transposed the same distance in the
> : opposite direction.
> :
> : Soprano clarinet in A. Common in symphonic orchestral playing. Ditto as above.
>
> Let's not forget Recorders. :)
Thank you :-)
>
> The sopranino, alto, and bass are all in F, and the soprano, tenor, and
> great/contra bass are all in C.
But they are not 'in F' and 'in C' the same way saxes/clarinets/oboes d'amour are 'in Bb'
etc. Recorders are always notated 'in C' in that you hear a C when you read a C, and the
player changes fingerings when switching instruments. 'In Bb' to sax/clarinet etc means you
hear a Bb when you read a C. Not better, not worse (both systems have advantages), just
different.
Malcolm Tattersall
