What makes the difference? (Sanborn vs. Kenny G)
Ismapi
Hi everybody!
I'm not trying to start some stupid thread on the style of "Kenny G
sucks" and so on, but I've often read about how "bad" Kenny G's music is
and how "good" David Sanborn's is.
So, last friday I got David Sanborn's "Pearls" (the only thing I had
listened from him was some solos on other artists' albums) and I find it
pretty similar to what Kenny G does.
So, what makes the difference between them so that many people would
rather have Kenny G's mouth sealed and David Sanborn sleeping in one's
bed???
O-.
/_-))
/| ((
/ / U Isma.
~ ~
Auhind
Ismapi wrote
>rather have Kenny G's mouth sealed and David Sanborn sleeping in one's
>bed???
Ain't no difference dude. They're both a suburban white pretense at funk for
the great mediocre masses. No true jazz here.. For all of you who are going
to jump me...yes, yes, they may have chops, but what a waste!!!!
Derek
Good grief. And now I'M replying to this crap now.
"No true jazz". What a comment indeed. You guys need to
spend much more time practicing your horns than online--- you're
actually beginning to think you have the chops, musicality, and
knowledge of **production** (an art unto itself) to keep up with
EITHER of those two cats. How about playing something OTHER than the
same tired old Aebersold-style licks that constitute most of today's
"straight ahead" jazz and be original, if that means SO MUCH to you.
Sheesh. If I knew what was good for ME, I'd stop frequenting this
tired old hag of a NG. I think Price, Lindmeyer, and BBB are
practically the only ones posting stuff that's worth reading. No
offense to all you cats just posting questions... it's all good. My
comments are directed towards those who probably suck themselves (pros
or wannabees), and have to rely on putting other successful artists
down to make it seem as though they "oh so much better". Don't
bother replying-- you know who you are.
Don't take my comments personally. You KNOW you need to practice.
Just stop yer whining and go do it......OH! and have a nice day! :-)
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Ismapi
Derek wrote:
> On 16 Mar 1998 22:08:48 GMT, auh...@aol.com (Auhind) wrote:
>
> >Ismapi wrote
> >>So, what makes the difference between them so that many people would
> rather have Kenny G's mouth sealed and David Sanborn sleeping in one's
> bed???
> >
> >Ain't no difference dude. They're both a suburban white pretense at
> funk for the great mediocre masses. No true jazz here.. For all of
> you who are going to jump me...yes, yes, they may have chops, but what
> a waste!!!!
>
> Good grief. And now I'M replying to this crap now.
> "No true jazz". What a comment indeed. You guys need to
> spend much more time practicing your horns than online--- you're
> actually beginning to think you have the chops, musicality, and
> knowledge of **production** (an art unto itself) to keep up with
> EITHER of those two cats.
Think you didn't catch the sense of my question (I won't speak about
Auhind but only about me). I WAS NOT saying NOTHING at all about the
quality of any of the two saxes I was asking for. I was only stating
something I've been reading in these news for long, say:"I don't like
Kenny G 'cause he sucks"
"I like David Sanborn 'cause he plays cute"
After reading such posts in the news, and having listened to Kenny G, I
thought I should hear something by Sanborn, and so did I. But after
having heard just a couple of themes, I couldn't find any differetce in
style between them. Again, I ain't saying they play good or bad music,
they're good or bad saxophonists. I don't give a damn if they are good
or not or if they play jazz or not!!!
Then, the thing was: if, in my oppinion, they DO play the same music,
they DO have the same quality, why do people find 'em so different!?
So, don't tell me to practise, pleeeeeease! Tell me why, if you do, find
between them differences and tell me what differences. And if you don't,
just tell me you don't... and that's all. I wasn't asking for advice on
the way I play or the music I like to listen to.
> My comments are directed towards those who probably suck themselves
> (pros or wannabees), and have to rely on putting other successful
> artists down to make it seem as though they "oh so much better".
> Don't bother replying-- you know who you are.
Pathetic.
> Don't take my comments personally.
Oh, how could I!?
> You KNOW you need to practice.
Thanks for advice. I know I gotta a lot to improve in my playing.
Craig Dickson
Auhind <auh...@aol.com> wrote:
>Ismapi wrote
>>So, what makes the difference between them so that many people would
>>rather have Kenny G's mouth sealed and David Sanborn sleeping in one's
>>bed???
>
>Ain't no difference dude. They're both a suburban white pretense at funk for
>the great mediocre masses. No true jazz here.. For all of you who are going
>to jump me...yes, yes, they may have chops, but what a waste!!!!
Well, I wouldn't rate Sanborn with the greats by any means, but there's a
lot more going on in his playing than there is in Kenny G's. But I
definitely prefer to hear Sanborn play on other people's records, not his
own (which are pretty much as you describe).
Craig
Ferd
This is not the question, this is the answer.
Ferd.
Ismapi asked
eve
Well I guess it's all a matter of taste, I'll get to your question in
a moment, but the first thing you should realise is that 'Pearls' is
not your typical Sanborn album, it was a one off project, basically an
album of lush covers, check out his 'best of' album for a more
balanced view.
Now to answer your question from my own personal point of view, Kenny
G plays nice simple melodies and has a light wistful style, the reason
a lot of jazzers hate him is because Kenny G is not a real jazz
musician as such, he is more pop and soul orientated, that's not to
say he is not an excellent musician, he is…. but ardent jazz lovers
are resentful of the fact that he is constantly perceived as a
successful top jazz musician just because he plays the sax.
David Sanborn on the other hand has a more intense style and likes to
get dig in and play straight from the heart, he is not really a jazz
musician either (although I'm sure he could more than hold his own in
that field if required), David is more R & B Funk/Rock orientated,
and IMHO he has it all, a unique killer tone (that is widely
imitated, and has inspired many modern players) a strong sense of
melody and a powerful solo style all of his own.
I guess the equivalent of Kenny G in to keyboard players would be
Richard Kladerman while David Sanborn is more Ray Charles, while the
guitarist might compare KG to Hank Marvin and DS to Jeff Beck.
Ismapi
eve wrote:
> Well I guess it's all a matter of taste, I'll get to your question in
> a moment, but the first thing you should realise is that 'Pearls' is
> not your typical Sanborn album, it was a one off project, basically an
> album of lush covers, check out his 'best of' album for a more
> balanced view. --- snip --- I guess the equivalent of Kenny G in to
> keyboard players would be Richard Kladerman while David Sanborn is
> more Ray Charles, while the guitarist might compare KG to Hank Marvin
> and DS to Jeff Beck.
Thanks a lot: that was the answer I was looking for. Be sure I'll try
and listen to other DS's albums rather than Pearls, which, true, it is
quite different to other things I had listened from him accompaining
other artists.
Glenn Spiegel
On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:40:57 +0100, Ismapi <ism...@blues.uab.es>
wrote:
>So, last friday I got David Sanborn's "Pearls" (the only thing I had
>listened from him was some solos on other artists' albums) and I find it
>pretty similar to what Kenny G does.
>
>So, what makes the difference between them so that many people would
>rather have Kenny G's mouth sealed and David Sanborn sleeping in one's
>bed???
Well there are some similarities, such as both use the blues scale a
lot, and both play in high registers, but there are more differences
than similarities.I'll just describe a couple:
First, listen to a Sanborn number from the standpoint of rhythm. Think
of him as playing a rhythm instrument and try to hear how his attacks
and releases support and propel the rhythm of the song. Then do the
same with Kenny G. I think you'll find that he tends to smooth over
the rhythm rather than pointing it up.
Second, listen to Sanborn's articulation--the way he attacks and ends
notes. You'll find that a note rarely ends the way it begins and that
he modulates the texture (the buzz) of his sound and the pitch of the
notes to move the solo line along. Kenny favors a smooth line with
long, sometimes very long, relatively static notes that most of us on
this newsgroup find bland and uninteresting.
There are lots more differences, and others might disagree with my
opinions, but this might be a starting point.
Glenn
I don't have "Pearls," so I don't know exactly what's on it
Auhind
They both play pentatonic scales to death.
Max Swanson
The difference is that Sanborn, even when he is playing in a syrrupy
style, gives ample evidence of being able to play in various styles.
Yes, I've heard some Sanborn stuff that is kind of one-dimentional; but
there's a real sax player lurking in there at all times; he does in fact
often come out to play.
Kennie on the other hand has chosen to be a one-trick pony. Also, his
recordings sound like they've been endlessly reworked, almost as if the
pitch had been quantized by a computer, if that's even possible.
--
Sure the game is rigged, but let that not be a reason to keep from playing.
Mail to: max...@citilink.com; Max S. KA0IZH. AKA Jazzbo. talk2me!
Malcolm Stainkey
>Kennie on the other hand has chosen to be a one-trick pony. Also, his
>recordings sound like they've been endlessly reworked, almost as if the
>pitch had been quantized by a computer, if that's even possible.
Apparently Mr G has a home studio where he does his recordings and
re-edits the tapes, somtimes over 500 times, to get it sounding
exactly how he wants it, so I guess that is an endlessly reworked
song. He appoligies to his fans for not getting records out sooner
because he spends so much time getting it "right" I guess that is why
he doesn't improvise his solos.
He must love his music because I sure couldn't listen to ANYTHING 500
times and still like it. I guess he knows what he likes because if you
listen to his "best of" they all sound similar
As for Sandborn "Best of" is quiet a variety on its tracks, different
to Pearls, although I like pearls because I know all the songs :)
And on a similar topic I also like Candy Dulfer. Both her and Sandborn
are, I feel, a lot more fun to listen to than G
Mal
ray_wood
In article , Ismapi says...
>After reading such posts in the news, and having listened to Kenny G, I
>thought I should hear something by Sanborn, and so did I. But after
>having heard just a couple of themes, I couldn't find any differetce in
>style between them. Again, I ain't saying they play good or bad music,
>they're good or bad saxophonists. I don't give a damn if they are good
>or not or if they play jazz or not!!!
>Then, the thing was: if, in my oppinion, they DO play the same music,
>they DO have the same quality, why do people find 'em so different!?
Some people think that all country music sounds just alike. But, what is
really true is that those listeners have no appreciation for country music.
My ex, to give you another example, is convinced that all jazz music
sounds just alike and in good for nothing beyond giving her a headache.
If you have an appreciation for the style of music they play, then
you will be able to hear considerable differences in the playing
of Sanborn and Kenny G.
Ray Wood
Stevesax68
Both Sanborn and Kenny G deep down inside are actually very, very talented
musicians. But like all of us they have to make a living. So they have to
write,play and record songs that appeal to a wide range of the public.. So
their true talent does not always show through. I have had the privalage of
hearing both of them play over at some peoples private homes and believe me
they are both very,very ,very talented.
Tom Stock
If this is true, why don't they play any 'real' music on the side? It seems
like a good way to get even MORE popular. They could apeal to both crowds.
Just curious.
-tom
Stevesax68 wrote in message
<199804020623...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
S Cervenak
With the question raised as to the 'real' abilities of playing jazz by
Kenny G, I recall an anecdote from a couple of years ago. My roommate at
the time played in the U. of Washington jazz ensemble (Kenny G's alma
mater) and had the "opportunity" to play a concert where Kenny G played
along with the band at a small closed venue near Seattle. Several
standard big-band charts were a part of the set, in which Ken took several
solos in. Apparently he sounded good on some of the changes, but wasn't
so smooth with others. In fact, at the rehearsal he got pretty shown-up
by one of the sax players (not one of my roommates) in the band who also
took a solo or two. Ken ended up taking the sax player off to the side
after the rehearsal to get some ideas or licks or whathaveyou for the
performance.
It just doesn't seem right that a professional "jazz" musician should be
shown up by a college student. Apparently he is a great guy and IS very
talented at his thing, and I respect the fact that he has isolated one
thing and developed it tremendously (too much?). I also respect the fact
that he wasn't too big-headed to ask a college student for a couple of
tips/ideas on some changes.
Heck, if I could learn ONE lick, perfect it, play it over and over in
several different songs, and earn the amount of money that he does, I
think I just might. Until then, I'll just keep trying to copy the likes
of Stan Getz, the Sonny's, Phil Woods, etc. etc.
So, I'll agree that Kenny G is very talented, but I'm going to leave it up
to my mom to enjoy his playing...
Steve
ED KASHMAREK
Wow! At someone's private home? Lucky you. Wish I'd have been there. I
agree. They are both very talented players. I guess the thing I love about
Sanborn, and what attracts me to most musicians I listen to, is the
enormous amount of passion and excitement with which they play their music.
Kenny G is talented, and his first few CDs were not bad, actually were
kinda funky. But lately everything he plays sounds the same and is not at
all exciting or passionate. Sanborn plays every note like he means it, and
you can tell. I am very influenced by his playing for this reason, as well
as Kirk Whalum, Josh Redman, Kenny Garrett, and Michael Brecker. Play what
you feel, and they will come!!! (no pun or sexual inuendos intended!)
Stevesax68 <steve...@aol.com> wrote in article