"Typical Organ" voicings?
Matthew Crouch
of his tunes. Having never played much organ, I thought some people in this
group could help. What does this mean exactly? It sounded like he wanted
diads, and he said something about "mostly 3rds and 7ths a la Joey
DiFrancesco".
Any help is appreciated -- even if you just know the name of a tune that has
this kind of part in it.
H. Emmerson Meyers
some as Joey.
"Matthew Crouch" <matthew...@spamlessverizon.net> wrote in message
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Tom Shaw
TS
"H. Emmerson Meyers" <willia...@starpower.net> wrote in message
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Jonas Aras
with one or two notes added.....the ninth, 6th (aka 13th). These are the
same "rootless" voicings that piano players play in their left hand. Visit
www.jazzcenter.org for some information on this subject.
"Matthew Crouch" <matthew...@spamlessverizon.net> wrote in message
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Gary Weder
speaker called a "Leslie". Fast rotation for tremolo or slow for chorus. It
was a classic 70's sound and even though it has been simulated on other
organs and keyboards , many purists still prefer the real deal Hammond B3
and an original one in good condition can bring good money when they come up
for sale.
I don't know who Joey DiFrancesco is but if you listen to any early
Santana you will certainly hear some "typical B3 stuff".
Cheers
Gary.
"Matthew Crouch" <matthew...@spamlessverizon.net> wrote in message
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Dave Andrews
<< I don't know who Joey DiFrancesco is ... >>
He's a modern day Jimmy Smith. Jazz organist par excellence.
--
With All Due Respect,
Dave Andrews
D. W. Andrews Associates
Church Music System Specialists
"Two Hacks Working Out Of A Garage"
Disclaimer: If there are two ways to take my words,
always assume I was after the cheap laugh.
laird....@fmr.com
(First of all, your name sounds very familiar--you aren't in the Eastern
Mass. USA area, are you? Does the Acton Jazz Cafe mean anything to you?)
"Typical B3 stuff" can mean a lot based on genre. By way of background, I play
piano and organ in a blues band, and some solo jazz piano.
In blues, the function of the organ is usually to lay down a chordal background
for everyone else to mess around over. That usually means rootless "drop-2"
dominant seventh voicings (and as I'm sitting here I can't remember for the life
of me why they're called that). For example, a good voicing for a C7 would be
something like E-Bb-D-G-C, for a full, loud sound, and maybe the same thing
minus the high C for a more mellow sound. Another good one is to put the five
on top, e.g. Bb-D-E-G for the C7/I, transitioning to A-C-Eb-F (or G) for the
F/IV.
In all cases, you want to hold the chord and move as few notes as possible when
a change hits. In blues, you also really want to massage the volume pedal--the
B3 is kind of like a string instrument in that regard in that the interesting
stuff happens while the chord's being held (i.e. play with the Leslie spin
sound, the vibrato, drawbar settings, volume, etc.).
Jazz B3 voicings are usually a little more restrained; if you aren't "kicking
pedals" or responsible for bass in any other way, your best bet is to mainly
stay out of the way. I use really simple three- or even two-note voicings:
again, a C7 in this case is often as simple as E-Bb, or E-Bb-D, or for a more
modernist sound, E-A-Bb. Note that when a jazz musician talks about thirds and
sevenths, he is usually saying to play things straight, i.e. don't throw a bunch
of altered garbage in there (he's not necessarily telling you exactly what
voicings to use). These voicings above and ones like them will help you out.
If you want to disregard his advice, depending on the chord changes you can
alter the voicings with flat-nines, sharp-nines, sharp-elevens, etc. He'll
probably look at you funny.
Jazz comping is different from blues comping in that the organ is _not_ used
quite as much as a chordal pad, but is used more like a piano. Typically the
percussion settings are a little higher, and the drawbar settings are different.
Cram for the gig by listening to Jimmy Smith's _The_Sermon_ if you haven't
already. For a different style, find some old Count Basie trio or quartet stuff
(I think he played a Wurlitzer on a couple albums).
Keep playing,
Laird
Matthew Crouch
> Mass. USA area, are you? Does the Acton Jazz Cafe mean anything to you?)
No, I'm in a musical wasteland called Texas. My name is the same as this guy
who produces religious sci fi pictures, so maybe that's it.
> In blues, the function of the organ is usually to lay down a chordal
background
> for everyone else to mess around over. That usually means rootless
"drop-2"
> dominant seventh voicings (and as I'm sitting here I can't remember for
the life
> of me why they're called that). For example, a good voicing for a C7
would be
> something like E-Bb-D-G-C, for a full, loud sound, and maybe the same
thing
> minus the high C for a more mellow sound. Another good one is to put the
five
> on top, e.g. Bb-D-E-G for the C7/I, transitioning to A-C-Eb-F (or G) for
the
> F/IV.
This is all very good stuff. His music is mostly rock/pop -- acoustic gtr
and vox leading the way. But he has asked for a kind of bluesy sound on a
couple things.
Just a guess: could it be because you "drop 2" notes -- the root and the
5 -- from the normal seventh?
>
> In all cases, you want to hold the chord and move as few notes as possible
when
> a change hits. In blues, you also really want to massage the volume
pedal--the
> B3 is kind of like a string instrument in that regard in that the
interesting
> stuff happens while the chord's being held (i.e. play with the Leslie spin
> sound, the vibrato, drawbar settings, volume, etc.).
>
Unfortunately, we're all electronical and I don't get a real organ...or a
real leslie. Unless you want to loan me yours? ;)
> Jazz B3 voicings are usually a little more restrained; if you aren't
"kicking
> pedals" or responsible for bass in any other way, your best bet is to
mainly
> stay out of the way. I use really simple three- or even two-note
voicings:
> again, a C7 in this case is often as simple as E-Bb, or E-Bb-D, or for a
more
> modernist sound, E-A-Bb.
Yes! Yes! Just the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Thanks.
> Cram for the gig by listening to Jimmy Smith's _The_Sermon_ if you haven't
> already.
I've got it on as we speak.
Matthew "Joey D Minus" Crouch
M. Slater
>Unfortunately, we're all electronical and I don't get a real organ...or a
>real leslie. Unless you want to loan me yours? ;)
Matthew, If your synth doesn't specify Hammond B3, see if you have "drawbar
organ" or "rock and roll" organ. The big Kurzweils simulate Hammond and Leslie
sounds pretty well.
Mark
Matthew Crouch
"M. Slater" <harpsic...@aol.community> wrote in message
news:20030128171359...@mb-fp.aol.com...
Radu Focshaner
"M. Slater" <harpsic...@aol.community> wrote in message
news:20030128171359...@mb-fp.aol.com...
"drawbar
> organ" or "rock and roll" organ.
Could it be "jazz organ" as on the P120 ? First voice - "tonewheel" electric
organ. Variation :"rotary speaker effect with a different speed".
R.
-----------------------
http://www.31337.pl/
Richard Huggins
> No, I'm in a musical wasteland called Texas.
What the heck kind of statement is THIS? Wasteland is as wasteland does. If
your music is more wasteland than if you lived somewhere else, then get the
heck to wherever that somewhere else is. If you think Texas is a music
wasteland, that only displays your utter ignorance about music in Texas.
Richard Huggins
Matthew Crouch
> > No, I'm in a musical wasteland called Texas.
>
> What the heck kind of statement is THIS? Wasteland is as wasteland does.
If
> your music is more wasteland than if you lived somewhere else, then get
the
> heck to wherever that somewhere else is. If you think Texas is a music
> wasteland, that only displays your utter ignorance about music in Texas.
>
> Richard Huggins
>
My apologies for being dismissive. That was an overstatement and I was
mostly trying to be funny. I like quite a bit of Texas music. It is,
however, more difficult to make a living as a musician here than some other
places.
from what I hear, e.g.:
a statement I heard on Fresh Air a couple weeks ago. This guy who played
organ, I think, for some classic funk bands said he hadn't played in 25
years because he lives in Memphis and "there's no music in Memphis". Of
course, this surprised me and Terry, the interviewer. He explained that in
"right to work" states music is not really cultivated as a profession and
musicians are not well rewarded for performing.
But I agree with you that the local music scene is to some extent what you
make of it. I see you're from Tyler and if it's alright I may try to pick
your brain from time to time -- since I'm a far cry from fulltime pro.
I live in Dallas and work with computers by day -- a statement that is
almost redundant.
M
laird....@fmr.com
> No, I'm in a musical wasteland called Texas.
Musical _wasteland_? :-) Son, get ahold of yourself!
> This is all very good stuff. His music is mostly rock/pop -- acoustic gtr
> and vox leading the way. But he has asked for a kind of bluesy sound on a
> couple things.
For rock/pop organ work, your intuition to use lots of two note chords high up
is dead on. Lots of sustain.
> Just a guess: could it be because you "drop 2" notes -- the root and the
> 5 -- from the normal seventh?
Could be...I have this vague feeling it has to do with dropping the two (the
nine), but of course you're not dropping it...argh. I'll find it someday.
> > Jazz B3 voicings are usually a little more restrained; if you aren't
> "kicking
> > pedals" or responsible for bass in any other way, your best bet is to
> mainly
> > stay out of the way. I use really simple three- or even two-note
> voicings:
> > again, a C7 in this case is often as simple as E-Bb, or E-Bb-D, or for a
> more
> > modernist sound, E-A-Bb.
>
> Yes! Yes! Just the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Thanks.
You're welcome.
> > Cram for the gig by listening to Jimmy Smith's _The_Sermon_ if you haven't
> > already.
>
> I've got it on as we speak.
Good man.
Laird
Adam Bravo
> "Matthew Crouch" <matthew...@spamlessverizon.net> writes:
> > Just a guess: could it be because you "drop 2" notes -- the root and the
> > 5 -- from the normal seventh?
>
> Could be...I have this vague feeling it has to do with dropping the two
(the
> nine), but of course you're not dropping it...argh. I'll find it someday.
You take the close voicing of the chord, say E-G-Bb-C-E, and drop the second
voice an octave.
pTooner
Matthew Crouch wrote:
> a statement I heard on Fresh Air a couple weeks ago. This guy who played
> organ, I think, for some classic funk bands said he hadn't played in 25
> years because he lives in Memphis and "there's no music in Memphis". Of
> course, this surprised me and Terry, the interviewer. He explained that in
> "right to work" states music is not really cultivated as a profession and
> musicians are not well rewarded for performing.
I don't think I understand the last sentence. Could you elaborate?
Gerry
Richard Huggins
>> "Matthew Crouch" <matthew...@spamlessverizon.net> writes:
>>
>> No, I'm in a musical wasteland called Texas.
>
> Musical _wasteland_? :-) Son, get ahold of yourself!
Indeed. Although Crouch and I have buried the hatchet on his "wasteland"
crack, the challenge was laid out. So I would point out that "wasteland"
would be a real surprise to:
+ the internationally-acclaimed Van Cliburn Piano Competition
+ the 1,180 music venues in Texas
+ the 760 recording studios
+ the 7,500 music-related businesses
+ the 4,600 Texas-born or Texas-based recording artists
+ the 680 annual events featuring live music
+ the 130 colleges and universities offering music or music-business degrees
+ the Texas-born or Texas-based Grammy winners
+ the musicians in the Dallas, Houston and San Antonio professional
symphonies
+ the various country, blues, jazz and mariachi enclaves throughout Texas
+ the many opera, ballet and music-theater companies/enterprises in Texas
+ the Governor's Texas Music Office from whose whose website some of these
figures were gleaned <http://www.governor.state.tx.us/music/>
Richard Huggins
Tyler, TX
John Smith
alt.music.hammond-organ
These people who play the B3 will know exactly what you are talking about.
Playing the B3 is *very* different than playing keyboard, or piano.
You need to master the Drawbars, Leslie, manual presets, and volume pedal.
That's just the beginning. I think you mean Jazz Voicings. as there are no
"Organ" voicings per se. These are like Shell Voicing you describe.
Anyway..............
I suggest you pick up some Joey D. Records, and listen. Jimmy Smith too.
I suggest you pick up the book Hammond Organ Complete, by Dave Limina, put
out by Berkly Press:
http://www.berkleepress.com/bp/new/
http://www.pianoplace.com/WN246.html
http://www.musicroom.com/se/AuthorID/0003584/author2.ihtml
http://www.musicbooksplus.com/books/hl1737.htm
http://namm.harmony-central.com/SNAMM02/Content/Berklee_Press/PR/Hammond-Org
an-Complete.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0879304596/104-6412772-3661568
?vi=glance
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