Yamaha Grand...2 or 3 pedals?
Ed Thyberg
I am considering the purchase of either a 1974 Yamaha G3 (6'), or 1975
G2 (5'7"). Both are polished ebony and appear to be in excellent shape.
My concern is that, whereas my Aunt's C3 (1971?) has 3 foot pedals, both
of the "G" models I'm looking at have 2.
To be honest I don't care about using the third pedal but I was told by
one salesperson that the 2 pedal Yamahas were not originally built to be
imported to the USA.....therefore inferior wood (softer/more moisture
content/etc.). Someone else suggested that it was not the case, perhaps
one of the differences between a "G" and a "C".
Any way to know? Thanks.
Ed in Maryland
dza...@aol.com
In article <32D085...@bellatlantic.net>, Ed Thyberg
<ethy...@bellatlantic.net> writes:
>one salesperson that the 2 pedal Yamahas were not originally built to be
>imported to the USA.....therefore inferior wood (softer/more moisture
>content/etc.). Someone else suggested that it was not the case, perhaps
>one of the differences between a "G" and a "C".
2 pedal Yamaha's were made for the Japan market. The moisture content is
different but the woods are basically the same. I haven't been awful
impressed with the ones I've seen, but I think Yamaha pianos should be at
a pretty high standard and the "rebuilt" ones are just not the same as a
*non* rebuilt or new one.
dave
pian...@clynx.com
Ed Thyberg wrote:
>
> I am considering the purchase of either a 1974 Yamaha G3 (6'), or 1975
> G2 (5'7"). Both are polished ebony and appear to be in excellent shape.
> My concern is that, whereas my Aunt's C3 (1971?) has 3 foot pedals, both
> of the "G" models I'm looking at have 2.
>
> To be honest I don't care about using the third pedal but I was told by
> imported to the USA.....therefore inferior wood (softer/more moisture
> content/etc.). Someone else suggested that it was not the case, perhaps
> one of the differences between a "G" and a "C".
>
>
> Ed in Maryland
Ed:
Allow me to quote exerpts from a letter I received recently from Terry
Lewis, Corporate Vice President for Yamaha Corporation of America
regarding instruments like the one you've described.
"... It has come to our attention that competitors in your region are
representing reconditioned Yamaha pianos at premium prices. It is also
our understanding that these representations imply Yamaha involvement.
They are often easily identified by the fact that many have only two
pedals...". "...Yamaha did not intend for these pianos to be sold in
North American markets. Our pianos are seasoned for regional destination
and the moisture content of the wood in each is determined by the market
for which it is destined..."
Ed, these pianos have, for the most part, been purchased in Malaysia,
Japan, and other parts of the Pacific Rim, and in most cases are quite
old and not only used but used-up! In the case of these instruments, it
would be imprudent to say carte blanche that they are all bad, but I
would most certainly invoke the phrase "... caveat emptor (let the buyer
beware)..."
All the best in your search for the perfect piano.
Dan
Gary Coombs
pian...@clynx.com wrote in article <32D17F...@clynx.com>...
>
> Allow me to quote exerpts from a letter I received recently from Terry
> Lewis, Corporate Vice President for Yamaha Corporation of America
> regarding instruments like the one you've described.
>
> "... It has come to our attention that competitors in your region are
> representing reconditioned Yamaha pianos at premium prices. It is also
> our understanding that these representations imply Yamaha involvement.
> They are often easily identified by the fact that many have only two
> pedals...". "...Yamaha did not intend for these pianos to be sold in
> North American markets. Our pianos are seasoned for regional destination
> and the moisture content of the wood in each is determined by the market
> for which it is destined..."
>
> Ed, these pianos have, for the most part, been purchased in Malaysia,
> Japan, and other parts of the Pacific Rim, and in most cases are quite
> old and not only used but used-up! In the case of these instruments, it
> would be imprudent to say carte blanche that they are all bad, but I
> would most certainly invoke the phrase "... caveat emptor (let the buyer
> beware)..."
>
> All the best in your search for the perfect piano.
>
> Dan
Just ask Yamaha Corporation if they "season" a piano destined for the arid hot
Southwest differently from a piano destined for the humid Northwest and if they
season instruments differently for hot and humid Florida than for the state of
Maine. No, of course they don't. Terry Lewis is simply blowing hot air and
"sales talk" and making himself sound rather ridiculous in the process.
<smile>
And I sure would be extremely wary of a Corporate VP of Yamaha claiming that an
older Yamaha would be "not only used but used-up!". Doesn't say a lot for
Yamaha the piano builder, does it? Methinks his goal (of course) is simply to
move "NEW" pianos. <wink with sly grin>
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
Keith McGavern
Gary Coombs wrote:
>
> > Dan
>
> Just ask Yamaha Corporation if they "season" a piano destined for the arid hot
> Southwest differently from a piano destined for the humid Northwest and if they
> season instruments differently for hot and humid Florida than for the state of
> Maine. No, of course they don't. Terry Lewis is simply blowing hot air and
>
> Gary....@MindSpring.com
> http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
Dear Gary,
Point of information: Part of the letter* you dispute referred to the
North American market <continent>, not locations within the North
American market.
*> "...Yamaha did not intend for these pianos to be sold in
> > North American markets...
Sincerely,
Keith A. McGavern
Registered Piano Technician
Oklahoma Chapter 731
Piano Technicians Guild
USA
Gary Coombs
Keith McGavern <kam...@ionet.net> wrote in article <32D218...@ionet.net>...
Keith,
Doesn't that then blow the whole premise out of the water? If indeed they say
that the Japanese Market is seasoned differently, that would have to mean that
they season their pianos differently for each climate. Japan has a varying
climate, everything from hot and steamy to cold and dry. The U.S. has
everything from sub tropical Florida to the hot dry deserts of Arizona to
coastal moist cold to the Midwest's seasonal extremes of temperature and
humidity.
Anyone can plainly see that it is ludicrous to say they "season" differently
for the North American Continent with all its different climates. Don't you
think it is rather obvious what the Yamaha VP is trying to do? He is
supporting his dealer and new piano sales in any way he can. But the way he
did it certainly hurts the credibility of the Yamaha Corporation.
I like the Yamaha piano and was dismayed to see a letter like that come from
someone so high up in the company.
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
A440A
Recently posted, concening pianos being prepared differently for different
markets;
> If indeed they say
>that the Japanese Market is seasoned differently, that would have to mean
that
>they season their pianos differently for each climate. Japan has a
varying
>climate, everything from hot and steamy to cold and dry. The U.S. has
>everything from sub tropical Florida to the hot dry deserts of Arizona to
>coastal moist cold to the Midwest's seasonal extremes of temperature and
>humidity.
>Anyone can plainly see that it is ludicrous to say they "season"
differently
>for the North American Continent ...<snip>
Yes, it would be impossible to match piano's wood seasoning to
expected climates, but climate is not the factor when comparing "North
America" to other parts of the world.
What has to be considered is the manner, and amount of heat that is
used in the houses. This country HEATS! I have never been to another
part of the world that uses so much heat in the winter. We have
Sahara-like relative humidity in our homes and schools. This could be a
consideration in building pianos for this country, as oppposed to any
others.
Ed Foote
Precision Piano Works
Nashville, Tenn.
-Chen,J.L.
In article <01bbfc60$cdf70ac0$0100a8c0@gary>,
Gary Coombs <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>[...deleted]
>> Ed, these pianos have, for the most part, been purchased in Malaysia,
>> Japan, and other parts of the Pacific Rim, and in most cases are quite
>> old and not only used but used-up! In the case of these instruments, it
>> would be imprudent to say carte blanche that they are all bad, but I
>> would most certainly invoke the phrase "... caveat emptor (let the buyer
>> beware)..."
>>
>> All the best in your search for the perfect piano.
>>
>
>Just ask Yamaha Corporation if they "season" a piano destined for the arid hot
>Southwest differently from a piano destined for the humid Northwest and if they
>season instruments differently for hot and humid Florida than for the state of
>Maine. No, of course they don't. Terry Lewis is simply blowing hot air and
>"sales talk" and making himself sound rather ridiculous in the process.
I have nothing to do with Yamaha but I make music instruments (violins,
guitars) as hobby. It is true that Yamaha seasons their instruments (pianos
inculded) for North America area differently than say destined for the
Asian market.
It is also true that Florida is much humid than say Midwest. But the
simple truth is a wood instrument seasoned for the dry climate will
likely survive if it is moved to humid area but the reverse is not true.
An instrument seasoned for the humid area is likely to develope crake
when abruptly moved to a dry area. This is not to say an instrument
seasoned for the dry area is not going to crake when the humidity
abruptly changed but the chance for surviving is much better.
Hope this clarifies somehow.
Julian
Keith McGavern
Gary....@MindSpring.com wrote:
>
> Keith,
>
> Doesn't that then blow the whole premise out of the water? If indeed they say
> that the Japanese Market is seasoned differently, that would have to mean that
> they season their pianos differently for each climate. Japan has a varying
> climate, everything from hot and steamy to cold and dry. The U.S. has
> everything from sub tropical Florida to the hot dry deserts of Arizona to
> coastal moist cold to the Midwest's seasonal extremes of temperature and
> humidity.
Dear Gary,
While your logic seems plausible, it still doesn't negate the
possibility of pianos being seasoned for different markets in the world.
> Anyone can plainly see that it is ludicrous to say they "season" differently
> for the North American Continent with all its different climates. Don't you
> think it is rather obvious what the Yamaha VP is trying to do? He is
> supporting his dealer and new piano sales in any way he can. But the way he
> did it certainly hurts the credibility of the Yamaha Corporation.
Unfortunately, I can't see anything being ludicrous with the seasoning
concept, and it's certainly not obvious to me at all when you suggest
what the Yamaha VP is trying to do. All I read was someone offering
information relevent to the individual who received the letter.
> I like the Yamaha piano and was dismayed to see a letter like that come from
> someone so high up in the company.
It is unfortunate that you have attributed apparent foul play into this
matter. Maybe later on down the road, more information will come forth
to ease this dismay, or prove its worth for you.
Steven Abrams
My understanding was that what piano makers did differently for North
America than anywhere (if they do anything differently, that is), is
prep them to withstand a wide variety of humidities. Because here in
N.A., we can go from tropically wet in the summer time to Sahara-dry in
the winter (thanks to the amount of heating).
Is this feasible?
~~~Steve
--
Steven Abrams abr...@cs.columbia.edu
Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.
-Lennon/McCartney
GeorgeS
In article <01bbfd0e$92082f40$0100a8c0@gary>, coo...@mindspring.com says...
>
>Doesn't that then blow the whole premise out of the water? If indeed they say
>that the Japanese Market is seasoned differently, that would have to mean that
>they season their pianos differently for each climate.
According to Larry Fine's book, Kawai originally had problems with dimensional
stability in pianos destined for the North American market. What Kawai did to
change the way they made pianos for this market is beyond me, but , apparently,
they did it.
Though I agree with you that the range of climates in Japan are similar to the
range in North America, there must be something net difference that required
Kawai to change what they did. The same may apply to Yamaha
Anyone have a clue as to what the changes were?
--
Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh ernyyl bhtug gb trg bhg zber
Gary Coombs
GeorgeS <p...@shore.net> wrote in article <5b0l2g$k...@fridge-nf0.shore.net>...
> In article <01bbfd0e$92082f40$0100a8c0@gary>, coo...@mindspring.com says...
>
> >
> >Doesn't that then blow the whole premise out of the water? If indeed they
say
> >that the Japanese Market is seasoned differently, that would have to mean
that
> >they season their pianos differently for each climate.
>
> According to Larry Fine's book, Kawai originally had problems with
dimensional
> stability in pianos destined for the North American market. What Kawai did to
> change the way they made pianos for this market is beyond me, but ,
apparently,
> they did it.
Don't assume that since it is set in type in a book that it is absolute truth.
All of Larry Fine's book, even though of some value, cannot be assumed to be
infallible.
> Though I agree with you that the range of climates in Japan are similar to
the
> range in North America, there must be something net difference that required
> Kawai to change what they did. The same may apply to Yamaha
>
> Anyone have a clue as to what the changes were?
Or were there even any changes at all? Was it so because Fine said so? Where
is the Kawai Rep? ;)
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
Gary Coombs
A440A <a4...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970108153...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Yes, it would be impossible to match piano's wood seasoning to
> expected climates, but climate is not the factor when comparing "North
> America" to other parts of the world.
> What has to be considered is the manner, and amount of heat that is
> used in the houses. This country HEATS! I have never been to another
> part of the world that uses so much heat in the winter. We have
> Sahara-like relative humidity in our homes and schools. This could be a
> consideration in building pianos for this country, as oppposed to any
> others.
>
> Ed Foote
> Precision Piano Works
> Nashville, Tenn.
Thank you! My point exactly. And we certainly don't heat year round. We have
the humidity extreme bounce back and forth like a yo-yo. There is no way to
air condition in the summer and keep your humidity anywhere near the arid
conditions of heating in the winter.
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
dza...@aol.com
In article <5b0l2g$k...@fridge-nf0.shore.net>, p...@shore.net (GeorgeS)
writes:
>Though I agree with you that the range of climates in Japan are similar
to
>the
>range in North America, there must be something net difference that
required
>Kawai to change what they did. The same may apply to Yamaha
>
>
It seems all the Asian companies when they first imported to the states
had some problems relating to lumber. Young Chang is a case in point:
their first offerings to the US were absolute crap, but they have adjusted
the lumber curing process and it's seemed to help.
BTW: How about the POPULATED areas of Japan where pianos are most likely
to be sold, what's the climate there? Same for the US. Any ideas?
Finally a quick personal note: what's wrong with the VP of Yamaha trying
to promote his dealers and sell his new pianos??
regards
Dave
Gary Coombs
-Chen,J.L. <ch...@ihgp3.ih.lucent.com> wrote in article
<5b1acl$9...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com>...
Hi Julian,
Could you explain for us the seasoning process you would use for an instrument
destined for different climates? I'll bet you buy your wood already aged and
ready to carve from a supplier. Does the supplier advertise wood seasoned for
different climates? Does any instrument maker warn the consumer at the time of
sale that the instrument will be in danger if the owner subsequently moves it
to another climate?
Could you share with us how you verified that Yamaha seasons wood differently
for the North American market and what that process would be? BTW, I did
verify with Steinway that Steinway does absolutely nothing different to a piano
destined for the Asian Market than one destined to remain in the USA.
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
wa...@ari.net
> ch...@ihgp3.ih.lucent.com (-Chen,J.L.) writes:
There is no such thing as seasoning a piano (soundboard particularly) for
a specific climate. There is good seasoning (drying) of the wood, and there is
inadequate seasoning - true for almost any wooden structure, although laminates
and plywood are somewhat immune.
Optimally, before wood is assembled into any complex object, it should be dried
to a moisture content lower than the lowest it is likely to encounter during the
remainder of its assembled life. If it is not, as humidity cycles below the point to
which the wood was dried, the wood will be excessively stressed.
Sooner or later it will crack.
Pianos kept in a relatively stable climate of either high or low humidity are
spared the cyclic stressing which leads to cracks. Pianos constructed of
poorly cured wood will do just fine in humid climates, and possibly in dry
climates, but will fail rapidly in a climate of extremes.
Contrary to popular opinion, Japan is not a tropical jungle. There are actually
seasons, and sometimes in some places it even snows! Same for Korea
and China. If an Asian piano has a soundboard that fails rapidly, it is NOT because
it was not seasoned for the U.S., it is because it was JUST NOT PROPERLY
SEASONED AT ALL.
Want a hint? OK, maybe more of an old wives' tale. Buy a piano that was built
in winter. Even if the manufacturer uses no climate control and pays little attention
to seasoning the wood properly, chances are a winter built piano was constructed
in low relative humidity. Now all you have to do is check the assembly dates on
every piano you want to buy. Maybe it's no accident that one of the most highly
regarded suppliers of replacement soundboards is located in the Southwest and
at high altitude to boot. Relative humidity of about 20% year-round.
Frank Weston - Maryland - humidity cycles 20 to 100%, temperature to match.
Gary Coombs
dza...@aol.com wrote in article
<19970109004...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
The same thing that is wrong with a salesman "intentionally misleading" a
customer in order to sell a piano. I maintain that the VP should have known
better.
> regards
> Dave
>
-Chen,J.L.
In article <01bbfdca$6cba7240$0100a8c0@gary>,
Gary Coombs <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Julian,
>
>Could you explain for us the seasoning process you would use for an instrument
>destined for different climates? I'll bet you buy your wood already aged and
>ready to carve from a supplier. Does the supplier advertise wood seasoned for
>different climates? Does any instrument maker warn the consumer at the time of
>sale that the instrument will be in danger if the owner subsequently moves it
>to another climate?
Yes it is true I buy wood from luthier supplier that already aged. But we
usually keep it in a dry place (~ 30% humidity) for a few years before
we start to use it. It is relatively easy for us in the Midwest to maintain
a low humidity since most of the time our humidity is low. But in Japan
their average humidity is much higher than us and they will have to
put the wood in a special humidity-controled room to maintain the low
humidity. A friend of mine (a pro classical guitar builder) visited
Yamaha many years ago and brought back many pictures. The room was huge
and air-conditioned all year long. It is extra cost for them to do this
and this is not necessary for the instruments destinated for the more humid
area. The official Yamaha piano brochures state very clearly they specially
season their wood for the North America market. BTW, I got the set of Yamaha
brochures (very nice brochures) from Yamaha directly. And interesting
I have never seen anything like this in the few Yamaha dealers I visited.
>Could you share with us how you verified that Yamaha seasons wood differently
>for the North American market and what that process would be? BTW, I did
>verify with Steinway that Steinway does absolutely nothing different to a piano
>destined for the Asian Market than one destined to remain in the USA.
As I said above it is not needed for us to do much since the God already
gives us the low humidity environment.
Julian
Gary Coombs
-Chen,J.L. <ch...@ihgp3.ih.lucent.com> wrote in article
<5b341n$b...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com>...
>
<snip>
>
> As I said above it is not needed for us to do much since the God already
> gives us the low humidity environment.
>
> Julian
>
But Julian, even though God gave the Midwest low humidity in the winter, he
gave you high humidity in the summer. (Air conditioning helps with high summer
humidity, but does not cure the problem.) And how do you account for the
constant high humidity of our Southern and coastal states? Simply put, the
climate of the United States is very diverse. And people move about from one
climate area to another. How do you "season" an instrument for that
eventuality?
It might seem logical that the Yamaha piano seasoned for the more humid
Japanese market would then be ideal if sold in the coastal or Southern states
where the humidity would more closely approximate Japan. Would that not make
sense? Could these people then be advised that Japanese seasoned pianos would
be an excellent buy for their climate?
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
b...@thepianosource.com
wa...@ari.net wrote:
The problem is less the soundboard and more the pinblock. The wood
having been seasoned to 10 -12% water content for use in the domestic
Japanese market, when kept indoors in the average US homes dries down
to about 6%, the older non-sealed pinblocks wouldn't hold the pins
tight enough and would result in tuning instability which became int
he worst cases a tuning inability. The same holds true with some of
the eastern European pianos which, while not seasoned to 10-12% but to
8-9% come to a point of tuning instability within a few years in the
average US home. The factories like to say things like the pinblocks
are now sealed so that "you can throw this pinblock int he ocean for
10 years and pull it out and it will still be solid and dry in the
inside." However that begs the question about how they seal the areas
where the pins are inserted. Anyway, this is not a problem with new
units, even new units made for the domestic market, but is a problem
with units built before about 1990 from Japan.
Bob s
DZappa
Earlier I posed the following question:
> Finally a quick personal note: what's wrong with the VP of Yamaha trying
> to promote his dealers and sell his new pianos??
"Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> responded:
>>The same thing that is wrong with a salesman "intentionally misleading"
a
customer in order to sell a piano. I maintain that the VP should have
known
better.<<
Gary
With all due respect, are you now accusing Terry Lewis of "intentionally
misleading" his dealers just because he is STATING FACT by sending a
letter telling his dealers that these Yamaha's are not necessarily
seasoned for the US market? Regardless of what your feelings are on it's
usefulness the pianos ARE seasoned for North America.
The problem that Yamaha has been running into and the reason for the memo
from Yamaha was......
1.) Non-Yamaha dealers selling these pianos as somehow associated with
Yamaha
and...
2.) People not being aware that these pianos may or may not have been
originally intended for the North American market - seasoned for
destination or not.
There is NOT A THING WRONG with the VP of Yamaha pointing out the benefits
of buying his new products no matter what you think.
There was nothing wrong with Mr. Lewis's statements. It was an INTERNAL
memo meant for dealer principals only and not as a "sales gimmick" to be
shown to every print music customer in the store or be posted on the
internet for all to see.
For you to put the VP of the largest instrument manufacturer in the world
in the same catagory as a dishonest salesperson borders in the "should
have known better" arena.
Dave
b...@thepianosource.com
"Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Keith McGavern <kam...@ionet.net> wrote in article <32D218...@ionet.net>...
>> Gary Coombs wrote:
>> >
>> > > Dan
>> >
>> > Just ask Yamaha Corporation if they "season" a piano destined for the arid
>hot
>> > Southwest differently from a piano destined for the humid Northwest and if
>they
>> > season instruments differently for hot and humid Florida than for the state
>of
>> > Maine. No, of course they don't. Terry Lewis is simply blowing hot air and
>> > "sales talk" and making himself sound rather ridiculous in the process...
>> >
>> > Gary....@MindSpring.com
>> > http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
>>
>> Dear Gary,
>>
>> Point of information: Part of the letter* you dispute referred to the
>> North American market <continent>, not locations within the North
>> American market.
>>
>> *> "...Yamaha did not intend for these pianos to be sold in
>> > > North American markets...
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Keith A. McGavern
>> Registered Piano Technician
>> Oklahoma Chapter 731
>> Piano Technicians Guild
>> USA
>>
>Keith,
>Doesn't that then blow the whole premise out of the water? If indeed they say
>that the Japanese Market is seasoned differently, that would have to mean that
>they season their pianos differently for each climate. Japan has a varying
>climate, everything from hot and steamy to cold and dry. The U.S. has
>everything from sub tropical Florida to the hot dry deserts of Arizona to
>coastal moist cold to the Midwest's seasonal extremes of temperature and
>humidity.
>Anyone can plainly see that it is ludicrous to say they "season" differently
>for the North American Continent with all its different climates. Don't you
>think it is rather obvious what the Yamaha VP is trying to do? He is
>supporting his dealer and new piano sales in any way he can. But the way he
>did it certainly hurts the credibility of the Yamaha Corporation.
>I like the Yamaha piano and was dismayed to see a letter like that come from
>someone so high up in the company.
>--
>Gary....@MindSpring.com
>http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
Gary, go talk to the guy you bought your Kawai from and ask him about
the seasoning. he will say the same thing!!!!! Try it, you might get
surprised. By the way, the seasoning really refers to interior climate
according to the factory and all are seasoned the same now and have
been for several years.
Bob S.
Gary Coombs
DZappa <dza...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970110043...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
OK Dave, I'll lighten up then. I still believe that quality of wood and how
long it is aged (dried) has everything to do with longevity of something built
of wood, whether it is a house, a violin, or a piano. I wonder how they would
measure a consistent 10-12% moisture content (mentioned in another post) in all
areas of a piece of wood. I can't believe that is possible. Maybe it is done
by weight... But even then the differing densities of different areas of the
same piece of wood would come in to play .. hmmm. I still think the "special
seasoning" thing has more to do with sales than reality.
To support that point, I did get verification from Steinway that they do not
season differently for any climate. They simply age and dry their wood to
their standards. They use special treatment on felt parts and metal parts for
the tropics, but that is it. And isn't Steinway supposed to be the standard by
which all others are measured?
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
John Musselwhite
"Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Just ask Yamaha Corporation if they "season" a piano destined for the arid hot
>Southwest differently from a piano destined for the humid Northwest and if they
No, they season the wood for our continent and our life-style, which,
as someone mentioned, includes central heating and air conditioning.
The wood (including the all-important rims) in the two pedal
"domestic" Yamaha that reach our shores was dried to accomodate the
Asian conditions and lifestyles. The precision these instruments have
lost over the years, topped by the brutal dryness in our homes after
they get here makes them little more than piano-shaped objects just
like any of the early Asian pianos imported to North America.
>Maine. No, of course they don't. Terry Lewis is simply blowing hot air and
>"sales talk" and making himself sound rather ridiculous in the process.
If Yamaha on this continent did NOT take that stance then people would
assume these PSOs are just as good as a new or fairly-new one they
purchase from a Yamaha dealer. They are NOT and people are being
mislead into thinking they are quality instruments. Yamaha rightly
considers these to be at the very end of their life, just as those who
got rid of them in the first place did.
>And I sure would be extremely wary of a Corporate VP of Yamaha claiming that an
>older Yamaha would be "not only used but used-up!". Doesn't say a lot for
>Yamaha the piano builder, does it?
Why not? Do you really think a piano that originally cost a quarter of
what a Steinway cost is going to last just as long? It is well known
among rebuilders that mass-produced pianos do indeed become "used-up"
regardless of what name is on them simply because it isn't
economically feasable to restore them.
>Methinks his goal (of course) is simply to
>move "NEW" pianos. <wink with sly grin>
Not only to move new pianos, but also for Yamaha to distance
themselves from their other pianos that were never meant to be
imported to North America. If people got the impression that THIS is
what a new Yamaha is going to look and sound like in ten or twenty
years (it isn't unless they're abused) their reputation would suffer
dramatically.
This is not because they were badly built or maintained, but simply
because they built them for the climate (and lifestyles) in which they
were designed to be used, in this case a tropical and semi-tropical
climate with the possibility that vermin (including moulds and
mildew), oxidization and outright water-logging will finish off the
piano long before it's worn-out. All things considered, for any of
them to survive at all shows that they MUST be well-built for their
purpose. If I recall, Steinway charges more just to "tropicalize" a
piano than Yamaha charges for a piano!
We only see the best of those "Asian domestics" here... the mind
boggles at what the worst of them are like.
John Musselwhite Calgary, Alberta
mus...@cadvision.com Canada
http://www.cadvision.com/musselj
GeorgeS
In article <01bbfeb8$89e144e0$0100a8c0@gary>, coo...@mindspring.com says...
>OK Dave, I'll lighten up then. I still believe that quality of wood and how
>long it is aged (dried) has everything to do with longevity of something built
>of wood, whether it is a house, a violin, or a piano.
Along this line, suppose you age the wood so that it is as dry as practical.
Now when you assemble the piano and put it in a humid spot the wood will
expand. This causes some distortion, but at least all the joints are tight.
Now suppose you do not age the wood so thoroughly, and then put it in a dry
place. In the dry place, the wood will contract and all the joints will loosen,
a far greater problem than the above. On the whole, if you do not know the
environment you are better off to thoroughly dry and cure the wood.
Now suppose you know the wood is to be in a humid environment. Perhaps, for the
humid Malaysian market, Yamaha ages the wood to match the mean humidity of the
area. It cuts down on cost (you do not have to cure the wood for as long a
time) and better matches the wood to its mean moisture content the Malaysian
environment.
cc...@aol.com
In article <01bbfdca$6cba7240$0100a8c0@gary>, "Gary Coombs"
>Could you explain for us the seasoning process you would use for an
>instrument
>destined for different climates? I'll bet you buy your wood already aged
and
>ready to carve from a supplier. Does the supplier advertise wood
seasoned
>for
>different climates? Does any instrument maker warn the consumer at the
time
>of
>sale that the instrument will be in danger if the owner subsequently
moves it
>to another climate?
>
>Could you share with us how you verified that Yamaha seasons wood
differently
>for the North American market and what that process would be? BTW, I did
>verify with Steinway that Steinway does absolutely nothing different to a
>piano
>destined for the Asian Market than one destined to remain in the USA.
>
>
It is interesting, how, when you read the entire thread, the overall
conclusions are mainly correct; Japan is humid and US is drier so
different requirements. Most of Japan rains nonstop for about a month
around June every year. Any piano sent to Japan, after the lacquer has
crazed, would be in trouble, Steinway included. I would guess that few
pianos would last as long as they do in the US, regardless of make. On
the other hand, pianos made for humid climates can deteriorate rapidly in
the US.
I am a woodworker, and know something about woods. Almost all woods, even
the lumber used for building houses, is seasoned. This involves two
stages (1) aging and (2) final humidity control. Aging differs with each
wood and application and is too complex to describe here. Humidity is
then controlled in a Temperature-Humidity controlled kiln which determines
the final wood humidity content. In Japan, because of the high humidity,
the wood humidity can be higher than US. Dry paint-sealed wood sent to
Japan will be OK until the paint crazes. Since Steinway wood is drier
than Yamaha (Japan product), so they need to do nothing. But Yamaha sent
to US must have drier wood, because many parts of the piano are not
paint-sealed.
C. C. Chang
GeorgeS
In article <01bbfe9d$245b3ba0$0100a8c0@gary>, coo...@mindspring.com says...
>But Julian, even though God gave the Midwest low humidity in the winter, he
>gave you high humidity in the summer.... How do you "season" an instrument
The problem is asymmetric
Dry wood in a humid environment will expand, and tighten all joints.
Wet wood in a dry environment will contract, and loosen all joints, or, if the
glue is good, crack
If you do not know where the wood is going, you are better off to incur the
expense of thoroughly drying it. The worse you will face is the distortion that
comes from the expansion. This is a much smaller problem than the cracks and
rattles associated with the moist wood in a dry place
Edward Thyberg
I originally wrote:
>
> I am considering the purchase of either a 1974 Yamaha G3 (6'), or 1975
> G2 (5'7"). Both are polished ebony and appear to be in excellent shape.
<snip>
> I was told by
> one salesperson that the 2 pedal Yamahas were not originally built to be
> imported to the USA.....therefore inferior wood (softer/more moisture
> content/etc.).
<snip again>
Thanks for all the responses to my original post. There seems to be two
camps re: the sigificance of seasoning/moisture content of the wood in 2
pedal Yamaha Grands. The following offer has been made to me from a
dealer who also sells new Yamahas.
1974, G3, cond. = B+ or higher (must be confirmed by my appraiser), 5
year parts & labor warranty, delivery and first 2 tunings. Also 100%
trade in credit for 5 years. $9000
Any advise? TIA
Ed in Maryland
b...@thepianosource.com
Edward Thyberg <ethy...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
><snip>
><snip again>
>Any advise? TIA
>Ed in Maryland
Too much!
It's still over 20 years old and the B+ is the code used on the
imports we are talking about, and the warranty is only good if the
dealer is still there. We are in an ever shrinking market and I know
lots of dealers that were big dealers less than 5 years ago who no
longer exist.
Caveat emptor!
Bob S
Gary Coombs
John Musselwhite <mus...@cadvision.com> wrote in article
<32d57a6d...@news.cadvision.com>...
>
> This is not because they were badly built or maintained, but simply
> because they built them for the climate (and lifestyles) in which they
> were designed to be used, in this case a tropical and semi-tropical
> climate with the possibility that vermin (including moulds and
> mildew), oxidization and outright water-logging will finish off the
> piano long before it's worn-out. All things considered, for any of
> them to survive at all shows that they MUST be well-built for their
> purpose.
Uh, John, better brush up on your geography. Japan's climate is much like the
USA. A cross section of Japan looks like a cross section of the US from the
South through the Midwest. They have snow and they have mountains and they
have humid areas and they have dry areas. Japan has a varied climate much like
ours. Japan is not the tropics.
Gary
Richard M
DZappa <dza...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970110043...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Dave refers to the memo from a Yamaha VP that some one else decided to post
> memo meant for dealer principals only and not as a "sales gimmick" to be
> shown to every print music customer in the store or be posted on the
> internet for all to see.
Finally.
I have alway heard Yamaha attempted to make pianos that could tolerate the
tropics better thatn the ones in the past. Albert Schweitzer (sp?) had to
have an aluminium case on his piano didn't he?
With modern equipment the moisture content of wood can be measured. I
suppose Yamaha decided to try a higher moisture contend wood for the
tropics. (Below the 20th parallel?) So they might be anxious if a piano
made for the Philippines found its way to North America, mostly above the
30th parallel, a completely different climate.
A visit to the Yamaha www page shows pianos "seasoned for the North
American market." No I didn't hear any rim shots. I did down load that new
midi player, maybe I should go back. GX something? Its free till March
31. Check it out. ¤ <----rimshot. Any how its all just speculation about
what Yamaha does or why they do it, until they say so officially. Maybe it
was a good idea, or maybe it doesn't make that much of a difference to
season the wood for warm moist climates. Only time will tell, and then
only Yamaha will tell. There must be a way to tell which pianos Yahama
made for the tropics. In the serial numbers?
It seems to me there are a few people on this news group from places like
Hong Kong, the Philippines, Maylasia perhaps. Do they have trouble with
wood in musical instruments, sound boards and pin blocks in pianos? Any
piano technicians from there have any "True Stories" about the "horrible
climate" for pianos?
I saw a piano from the Florida Keys that ended up in San Francisco. It
had some rust on the t pins and strings, but nothing really detrimental.
Don't know how it was after a year though.
Richard Moody ¤ ptt
Blair Jones
b...@thepianosource.com wrote:
>
> Edward Thyberg <ethy...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>
> >I originally wrote:
> >>
> >> I am considering the purchase of either a 1974 Yamaha G3 (6'), or 1975
> >> G2 (5'7"). Both are polished ebony and appear to be in excellent shape.
>
> ><snip>
>
> >> I was told by
> >> one salesperson that the 2 pedal Yamahas were not originally built to be
> >> imported to the USA.....therefore inferior wood (softer/more moisture
> >> content/etc.).
>
> ><snip again>
>
> >Thanks for all the responses to my original post. There seems to be two
> >camps re: the sigificance of seasoning/moisture content of the wood in 2
> >pedal Yamaha Grands. The following offer has been made to me from a
> >dealer who also sells new Yamahas.
>
> > 1974, G3, cond. = B+ or higher (must be confirmed by my appraiser), 5
> >year parts & labor warranty, delivery and first 2 tunings. Also 100%
> >trade in credit for 5 years. $9000
>
> >Any advise? TIA
>
intended for US. It spent the first 12 years in Houston Tx mostly
without any humidity control. I have now relocated to Lousiville Ky,
and it gets significantly colder and drier here in the winter. I have
installed a central humidifier, but when the outside temperature gets
down to 0 deg F you must drop the inside relative humidity setpoint to
25% to avoid water condensation in your walls. So far I have not seen
any physical or mechanical problems, just some small effects on the
tuning. I will keep you posted of any changes in the future.
Alec Weil
cc...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In article <01bbfdca$6cba7240$0100a8c0@gary>, "Gary Coombs"
> <coo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> Could you explain for us the seasoning process you would use for an instrument
> destined for different climates? I'll bet you buy your wood already aged
> and ready to carve from a supplier. Does the supplier advertise wood seasoned
> for different climates? Does any instrument maker warn the consumer at the
> time of sale that the instrument will be in danger if the owner subsequently
> moves it to another climate?
> Could you share with us how you verified that Yamaha seasons wood differently
> for the North American market and what that process would be? BTW, I did
> verify with Steinway that Steinway does absolutely nothing different to a
> piano destined for the Asian Market than one destined to remain in the USA.
Regarding Steinway:
Pianos for Asia are supplied from the Hamburg factory which also produces tropicalized
pianos which are capable of withstanding much higher humidity than a standard piano.
However, other than the tropicalized pianos, Steinway does not vary the wood moisture
content of its pianos for different markets.
Alec Weil
Steinway & Sons
wa...@ari.net
> cc...@aol.com writes:
C. C. Chang writes:
> It is interesting, how, when you read the entire thread, the overall
> conclusions are mainly correct; Japan is humid and US is drier so
> different requirements. Most of Japan rains nonstop for about a month
> around June every year. Any piano sent to Japan, after the lacquer has
> crazed, would be in trouble, Steinway included. I would guess that few
> pianos would last as long as they do in the US, regardless of make. On
> the other hand, pianos made for humid climates can deteriorate rapidly in
> the US.
>
No matter how much it rains, the humidity outside never gets above 100%,
and inside rarely above 90%. Much of the U.S. experiences this type of humidity
for weeks at a time. The problem is not climate, it is inadequately seasoned
wood assembled without proper attention to important detail.
Frank Weston
Gary Coombs
wa...@ari.net wrote in article <5b9gke$8...@ari.ari.net>...
Thank you, Frank, for putting it so eloquently in so few words! And dollars to
doughnuts, if the piano was quality construction to begin with (quality also
meaning seasoned properly) and lasted 20 or 30 years in Japan it will not fall
apart here either.
Gary
Send me $5 and I will season your piano via mental telepathy.
dza...@aol.com
In article <01bbfeb8$89e144e0$0100a8c0@gary>, "Gary Coombs"
<coo...@mindspring.com> writes:
> I wonder how they would
>measure a consistent 10-12% moisture content (mentioned in another post)
in
>all
>areas of a piece of wood. I can't believe that is possible. Maybe it is
>done
>by weight... But even then the differing densities of different areas of
the
>same piece of wood would come in to play .. hmmm. I still think the
"special
>seasoning" thing has more to do with sales than reality.
>
I would assume that a combination of weight and occasionally pulling some
wood out fo the kiln and measuring moisture content would be correct.
Yamaha claims 6% EMC on pianos destined for North America.
And isn't Steinway supposed to be the standard
>by
>which all others are measured?
Yes and no Gary. Steinway is a very traditional builder using "old world"
design, technology and methods to build a piano. In other words-they
build them like they always have (if it ain't broke, don't fix it) Yamaha
IMO is a "cutting edge" company that is constantly trying to improve
product. They have the largest R&D department of any maker and do try to
improve all aspects of how they build pianos. I think they probably have
the most up to date wood seasoning equipment FWIW.
Best Regards!
Dave
dza...@aol.com
In article <01bc0037$18c50e60$0100a8c0@gary>, "Gary Coombs"
<coo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>Send me $5 and I will season your piano via mental telepathy.
Now THAT'S Funny!!!!
cc...@aol.com
>No matter how much it rains, the humidity outside never gets above 100%,
>and inside rarely above 90%. Much of the U.S. experiences this type of
>humidity
>for weeks at a time.
Please, Frank, when it is raining, humidity is generally way above 100%
outside, and, indoors -- I guess you have never lived in Japan. Try going
there in June and watch glued wooden furniture fall apart right in front
of your eyes, and ringworms growing on your skin!.
C. C. Chang
Gary Coombs
cc...@aol.com wrote in article
<19970113052...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
C. C.,
100% humidity is defined as the dew point, or the maximum amount of humidity
the air of a given temperature can contain before condensation (dew point or
rain) occurs. By definition air cannot contain more than 100% of it's capacity
to hold moisture before condensation occurs. Frank is correct in his
statement. Humidity cannot physically rise above 100% (total saturation for a
given temperature) and many areas of both countries do have near 100% humidity
for extended periods. Interestingly enough, if indoor humidity reached 100%,
it would then rain indoors. A rainy day in Japan (100% humidity) cannot
physically be wetter than a rainy day in the United States (100% humidity).
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
Neil Rosenberg
I guess in Japan the water isn't as wet as it is here. It reminds me of a
wife of a friend who was told that even though coal stoves put out a lot of
heat, it's "cold heat" and therefore not as effective. Grrrrrr.......
Neil
p.s. 2+2=5 for very large values of 2
Neil Rosenberg
I'm sorry for the intrusion, but by definition humidity can't rise above
100%. As I understand it, at 100% it starts to spontaneously rain, indoors
or out, because the air simply can't hold any more moisture.
Neil
Mike Imbler
Just a point of trivia - It is not necessarily 100%
relative humidity when it is raining. In fact it normally is not. The
rain drops condensed out at a higher altitude where it was 100% and fell
to ground where it is often much lower (the humidity I mean!).
Regards, Mike
"Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>cc...@aol.com wrote in article
><19970113052...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>> In article <5b9gke$8...@ari.ari.net>, wa...@ari.net writes:
>>
>> >No matter how much it rains, the humidity outside never gets above 100%,
>> >and inside rarely above 90%. Much of the U.S. experiences this type of
>> >humidity
>> >for weeks at a time.
>>
>> Please, Frank, when it is raining, humidity is generally way above 100%
>> outside, and, indoors -- I guess you have never lived in Japan. Try going
>> there in June and watch glued wooden furniture fall apart right in front
>> of your eyes, and ringworms growing on your skin!.
>>
>> C. C. Chang
>
cc...@aol.com
In article <01bc011d$dfc46240$0100a8c0@gary>, "Gary Coombs"
<coo...@mindspring.com> writes:
> By definition air cannot contain more than 100% of it's capacity
>to hold moisture before condensation occurs. Frank is correct in his
>statement. Humidity cannot physically rise above 100% (total saturation
for
>a
>given temperature) and many areas of both countries do have near 100%
>humidity
>for extended periods.
Gary, I am a scientist and know that you are, strictly speaking in terms
of humidity of the air, correct. However, Frank mentioned OUTSIDE during
a rain -- how do you account for the raindrops?? Now I don't know how
scientifically correct this is, and how quantitative it is, but I have
heard many weather reports of humidity exceeding 100% when it is raining
outside. I don't think those newscasters were joking; however, I also do
not know how they measured those numbers. But I do contest Frank's
statement implying that there are no raindrops outside when raining, and
that the indoor humidity "almost never" (strange combination of words)
exceeds 100%; in that respect, Japan is a really unusual place being a
narrow, mountainous island surrounded by water. Very different from the
US.
C. C. Chang
Roland Flowerdew
Gary Coombs wrote:
>
> cc...@aol.com wrote in article
> <19970113052...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> > In article <5b9gke$8...@ari.ari.net>, wa...@ari.net writes:
> >
> > >No matter how much it rains, the humidity outside never gets above 100%,
> > >and inside rarely above 90%. Much of the U.S. experiences this type of
> > >humidity
> > >for weeks at a time.
> >
> > Please, Frank, when it is raining, humidity is generally way above 100%
> > outside, and, indoors -- I guess you have never lived in Japan. Try going
> > there in June and watch glued wooden furniture fall apart right in front
> > of your eyes, and ringworms growing on your skin!.
> >
> > C. C. Chang
>
> C. C.,
>
> 100% humidity is defined as the dew point, or the maximum amount of humidity
> the air of a given temperature can contain before condensation (dew point or
> to hold moisture before condensation occurs. Frank is correct in his
> statement. Humidity cannot physically rise above 100% (total saturation for a
> given temperature) and many areas of both countries do have near 100% humidity
> it would then rain indoors. A rainy day in Japan (100% humidity) cannot
> physically be wetter than a rainy day in the United States (100% humidity).
> --
> Gary....@MindSpring.com
> http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
>
True, Gary, but don't forget the *amount* of water contained in the
air at 100% humidity is proportional to temperature...
cc...@aol.com
> By definition air cannot contain more than 100% of it's capacity
>to hold moisture before condensation occurs. Frank is correct in his
>statement. Humidity cannot physically rise above 100% (total saturation
for
>a
>given temperature) and many areas of both countries do have near 100%
>humidity
>for extended periods.
Gary, I am a scientist and know that you are, strictly speaking in terms
cc...@aol.com
cc...@aol.com
cc...@aol.com
cc...@aol.com
cc...@aol.com
wa...@ari.net
C. C. Chang writes:
>
> Gary, I am a scientist and know that you are, strictly speaking in terms
> of humidity of the air, correct. However, Frank mentioned OUTSIDE during
> a rain -- how do you account for the raindrops?? Now I don't know how
> scientifically correct this is, and how quantitative it is, but I have
> heard many weather reports of humidity exceeding 100% when it is raining
> outside. I don't think those newscasters were joking; however, I also do
> not know how they measured those numbers. But I do contest Frank's
> statement implying that there are no raindrops outside when raining, and
> that the indoor humidity "almost never" (strange combination of words)
> exceeds 100%; in that respect, Japan is a really unusual place being a
> narrow, mountainous island surrounded by water. Very different from the
> US.
>
how "scientifically correct" it is but that you heard from newscasters that humidity
exceeded 100%. God save us from this kind of science! Next you'll be quoting the
National Enquirer as a reliable source.
Then, you claim that I stated that "there are no raindrops outside when raining. and
that the indoor humidity almost never exceeds 100%" Your misquote bears no
semblance to my original statement, and in fact defies logical explanation.
Finally you say, "Japan is a really unusual place, being a narrow, montainous island
surrounded by water". Yes, so are England, Iceland, Jamacia, New Zealand, and a
few hundred other places.
To put it quite bluntly: C. C. you make no sense. Are you on medication?
Frank Weston
cc...@aol.com
> By definition air cannot contain more than 100% of it's capacity
>to hold moisture before condensation occurs. Frank is correct in his
>statement. Humidity cannot physically rise above 100% (total saturation
for
>a
>given temperature) and many areas of both countries do have near 100%
>humidity
>for extended periods.
Gary, I am a scientist and know that you are, strictly speaking in terms
of humidity of the air, correct. However, Frank mentioned OUTSIDE during
a rain -- how do you account for the raindrops?? Now I don't know how
scientifically correct this is, and how quantitative it is, but I have
heard many weather reports of humidity exceeding 100% when it is raining
outside. I don't think those newscasters were joking; however, I also do
not know how they measured those numbers. But I do contest Frank's
statement implying that there are no raindrops outside when raining, and
that the indoor humidity "almost never" (strange combination of words)
exceeds 100%; in that respect, Japan is a really unusual place being a
narrow, mountainous island surrounded by water. Very different from the
US.
C. C. Chang
cc...@aol.com
Donald E. Mannino
wa...@ari.net wrote in article <5bg7hr$5...@ari.ari.net>...
>
> To put it quite bluntly: C. C. you make no sense. Are you on
medication?
>
> Frank Weston
>
medication, maybe he should be!
Don Mannino
John Musselwhite
"Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> because they built them for the climate (and lifestyles) in which they
>> were designed to be used, in this case a tropical and semi-tropical
>> climate with the possibility that vermin (including moulds and
>> mildew), oxidization and outright water-logging will finish off the
>> piano long before it's worn-out. All things considered, for any of
>Uh, John, better brush up on your geography. Japan's climate is much like the
>USA. A cross section of Japan looks like a cross section of the US from the
I'm quite familiar with Japan's geography, Gary. If readers will
indulge me, Japan is about half the size of my province of Alberta but
contains three times the number of people in all of Canada. Almost
every person in Japan lives within about 50 miles from the ocean, but
most Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border. Two thirds of
Japan is covered with mountains including active volcanos, whereas two
thirds of Alberta is covered with forest and the closest volcano is
Mt. St. Helens, about 500 miles away. Japan is an island of course, so
they get a great deal of rain as well as typhoons, tsunamis and other
such wonderful catastrophes.
>South through the Midwest. They have snow and they have mountains and they
>have humid areas and they have dry areas. Japan has a varied climate much like
>ours. Japan is not the tropics.
No they aren't IN the tropics, however most of their population is
gathered around the same lattitude as California and for the most part
it's a similar, but more humid climate thanks to the warm ocean
currents which bear its name. The major difference as I mentioned, is
the style of heating and air conditioning in use there.
Asian manufacturers also supply a great number of pianos to more
tropical areas where the climate IS exactly as I described. Using the
snow and mountains of Japan in your argument is specious, as
California has them too. What Japan DOESN'T have is a lot of
piano-playing people enjoying sub-arctic conditions as many of us are
suffering through right now, coupled with the central heating and air
conditioning most of us use to combat it. When they build their pianos
for our "climate" they build them for what will be the worst case for
populated areas on this continent. That means building them so they'll
survive Calgary winters where the RH can be as low as 6% outside as
well as the tens of millions of potential customers who suffer through
similar weather and the forced-dry heat that comes with it.
THIS is the reason why pianos are built for this market, not the
outside climatic conditions. Yamaha and other Asian piano makers
understand this, and so pianos destined for this country are
constructed from wood force-dried to less than 5% in huge drying
kilns, and are built in temperature and humidity-controlled clean-room
factories. When they are finished they are sealed in plastic and foil
and stuffed with bags of silica gel to keep them dry enough to be
shipped to North America. They MUST do this, otherwise their pianos
would be just like the Yamaha and other Asian pianos used to be when
they first came to this country... like new versions of the two-pedal
"oriental domestic" pianos under discussion.
The factories which build those pianos for the oriental market aren't
under the same tight humidity controls, and the wood is dried to about
14% from what I understand. That is as it should be for a piano that
will almost definately be sitting in a coastal city, which may likely
be Singapore as it would Tokyo.
Steinway in NYC doesn't do any "special" preparation for climate for
any piano because the majority of their pianos are destined for this
market. In fact they have to spray a fine mist of water in the air to
bring the humidity UP during the dry months. Steinway in Germany
usually handles the rest of the world apparantly, and as Alec and I
have both mentioned Hamburg will "tropicalize" pianos destined for the
most humid climates (such as the aforementioned Singapore which lies
almost directly on the equator). Yamaha doesn't need to do that in
their "domestic" pianos for all the reasons I've mentioned.
Gary can argue all he wants, but there is solid data behind what I
say. For more information, every dealer will have a library of video
tapes they may let you watch which show the factories and the
equipment used to build their pianos. The Asian piano makers are
justifiably proud of their ability to make a good quality piano under
strictly-controlled conditions for this climate. Their reputations
here in North America depend on THOSE instruments, and placing
official sanction on grey-market pianos would not do anything to
enhance it.
John Musselwhite Calgary, Alberta
mus...@cadvision.com Canada
http://www.cadvision.com/musselj
Gary Coombs
John Musselwhite <mus...@cadvision.com> wrote in article
<32dc02c5...@news.cadvision.com>...
> "Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Gary can argue all he wants, but there is solid data behind what I
> say.
<snip>
With all due respect, I am not arguing. I am stating fact. John previously
stated that Japan's climate was tropical. I stated that it was not. John can
argue all he wants but there is solid data that Japan is not tropical. :)
Gary
Keith McGavern
Alec Weil
Gary Coombs wrote:
>
> John Musselwhite <mus...@cadvision.com> wrote in article
> <32dc02c5...@news.cadvision.com>...
> > "Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > say.
>
>
> With all due respect, I am not arguing. I am stating fact. John previously
> stated that Japan's climate was tropical. I stated that it was not. John can
> argue all he wants but there is solid data that Japan is not tropical. :)
>
> Gary
Hey, I'm sitting in Tokyo right now with the heater on full blast.
Wednesday I was walking in snow!
AW
John Musselwhite
"Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>With all due respect, I am not arguing. I am stating fact. John previously
>stated that Japan's climate was tropical. I stated that it was not. John can
>argue all he wants but there is solid data that Japan is not tropical. :)
With all due respect, if you look back I didn't say the climate in
Japan itself was tropical, but rather that the "domestic" pianos are
built for the semi-tropical and tropical lifestyle for which they were
meant, which doesn't normally include central heating and air
conditioning, especially outside Japan.
Gary Coombs
John Musselwhite <mus...@cadvision.com> wrote in article
<32e0309b...@news.cadvision.com>...
> "Gary Coombs" <coo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >With all due respect, I am not arguing. I am stating fact. John previously
> >stated that Japan's climate was tropical. I stated that it was not. John
can
> >argue all he wants but there is solid data that Japan is not tropical. :)
>
> With all due respect, if you look back I didn't say the climate in
> Japan itself was tropical, but rather that the "domestic" pianos are
> built for the semi-tropical and tropical lifestyle for which they were
> meant, which doesn't normally include central heating and air
> conditioning, especially outside Japan.
>
> John Musselwhite Calgary, Alberta
> mus...@cadvision.com Canada
> http://www.cadvision.com/musselj
>
OK John, as usual you are incapable of ever being wrong.
I bow to your superior knowledge.
--
Gary....@MindSpring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs