Debussy's The Girl with the Flaxen Hair
Carl Tait
>
>[On Leconte de Lisle's "La fille aux cheveux de lin":]
>Nice and informative post Raphael.
Yes, thanks very much, Raphael.
>But why not call it "The blond chick"? Absolutely kidding but it just burst
>into my mind.
Or for those with just enough high-school French to get translations
horribly wrong, "The Girl with the Flaxen Horses."
--
Carl Tait
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
Hawthorne, NY 10532
Tom Shaw
translation is more idiomatic.
TS
"Carl Tait" <cdtait@DELETE_ME.us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:3ab2350a....@news.newsguy.com...
Rosa Chioffi
What was this piece about to Debussy? Who is the girl with the flaxen hair?
What were some artistic or historic influences on Debussy's work at the time
he wrote that piece?
When and why was the piece composed?
I'd like to hear responses about anything having to do with this piece or
having to do with Debussy.
Also, this prelude is pretty well known among Debussy's works, why is it so
popular?
Thank you.
p.s. to write me at my e-mail address, please remove the x.
Kim Bastin
>
> I am also interested in stuff about Debussy.
> Does anyone know a good site with translations of the French in his pieces?
> David McKay
Not a site (though there may be one), but the Dover edition contains
translations.
Kim Bastin
Tom Shaw
into my mind.
"Raphael Gest" <raphae...@sap.ap-hop-paris.fr> wrote in message
news:98t4qt$3esgm$1...@ID-76570.news.dfncis.de...
> Rosa Chioffi <rcsq...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message :
> 0ies6.197$Im6....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > I have some questions about Debussy's prelude The Girl with the Flaxen
> Hair:
> > What was this piece about to Debussy? Who is the girl with the flaxen
> hair?
> > What were some artistic or historic influences on Debussy's work at the
> time
> > he wrote that piece?
> > When and why was the piece composed?
> > I'd like to hear responses about anything having to do with this piece
or
> > having to do with Debussy.
> > Also, this prelude is pretty well known among Debussy's works, why is it
> so
> > popular?
> > Thank you.
> >
>
> (1818-1894), "La fille aux cheveux de lin", from his "Chansons écossaises"
> (Scottish Songs). Here it is for those it may concern:
>
> "La fille aux cheveux de lin
>
> Qui chante dès le frais matin ?
> C'est la fille aux cheveux de lin,
> La belle aux lèvres de cerise.
>
> L'amour, au clair soleil d'été,
> Avec l'alouette a chanté.
>
> Ta bouche a des couleurs divines,
> Ma chère, et tente le baiser !
> Sur l'herbe en fleur veux-tu causer,
> Fille aux cils longs, aux boucles fines ?
>
> L'amour, au clair soleil d'été,
> Avec l'alouette a chanté.
>
> Ne dis pas non, fille cruelle !
> Ne dis pas oui ! J'entendrai mieux
> Le long regard de tes grands yeux
> Et ta lèvre rose, ô ma belle !
>
> L'amour, au clair soleil d'été,
> Avec l'alouette a chanté.
>
> Adieu les daims, adieu les lièvres
> Et les rouges perdrix ! Je veux
> Baiser le lin de tes cheveux,
> Presser la pourpre de tes lèvres !
>
> L'amour, au clair soleil d'été,
> Avec l'alouette a chanté."
>
>
> This is a charming poem about simple love and desire, with a strong
pastoral
> vibe. It should be noted that, for most of the preludes, the titles came
> after the music was completed. That's why Debussy insisted so much that
the
> titles be written as a bottom note at the end of each prelude rather than
in
> the more standard "heralded" fashion. They are not meant to be descriptive
> of the music, more to be suggestive of an overall atmosphere for the
piece.
> Debussy himself didn't consider his music as descriptive and was more than
> suspicious of the "impressionism" concept and appellation.
>
> It was composed, along with the remaining of the preludes of the first
book,
> between December 1909 and February 1910. I think that its relative
> simplicity may be accountable for its popularity in some way, having been
> included in numerous piano collections for the last 50 years.
>
> Last thing: I've always felt that the English title didn't do the piece
> justice. "La fille aux cheveux de lin" should be translated "The girl with
> hair of flax." Of course it doesn't sound very good but it's truer to the
> sense. Anyway I don't think one can easily translate the poetic dimension
in
> the turn of phrase "aux cheveux DE lin", as opposed to "aux cheveux EN
lin".
> All I can say is, it's poetic.
>
> Are you learning it? Good luck.
> Best,
> Raphael
>
>
David McKay
David McKay
Andrew Fielden
>
>
> Translation follows.
>
> Pat
>
> " the girl with the hair of flax
> On the alfalfa in flower sitting,
> Which sings as of the expenses morning?
> It is the girl with the hair of flax,
> the beautiful one with the cherry lips.
> The love, with the clear sun of summer, With the lark sang.
> Your mouth has divine colors, My expensive, and tries the
> kiss!
> On grass in flower do you want to cause, Fille with the long
> lashes, the fine loops?
> The love, with the clear sun of summer, With the lark sang.
> Do not say not, cruel girl! Do not say yes!
> I will hear better the long glance of your large eyes And
> your pink lip, ô my beautiful!
> The love, with the clear sun of summer, With the lark sang.
> Good-bye deer, good-bye hares And the reds partridge!
> I want Baiser the flax of your hair, Presser the purple of
> your lips!
> The love, with the clear sun of summer, With the lark sang.
LOL! But that still makes more sense than a Davey post.
--
Andrew
LstPuritan
>What was this piece about to Debussy? Who is the girl with the flaxen hair?
>What were some artistic or historic influences on Debussy's work at the
>time
>he wrote that piece?
>When and why was the piece composed?
>I'd like to hear responses about anything having to do with this piece or
>having to do with Debussy.
>Also, this prelude is pretty well known among Debussy's works, why is it
>so
>popular?
>Thank you.
*repost*
---------------
When writing to his publisher Debussy explained that in his orchestral Images
he was
a musical painter of "realities. . . what imbeciles call 'impressionism'."
Although Debussy was influenced by Impressionist painters and these words were
a harsh cry against those who did not understand Impressionist art, (remember,
the term "impressionist" was originally a derogatory term used by critics to
describe the style of of a group of painters who used odd colors and vague
outlines to express the subjective snapshot of a given scene. Only later did
the Impressionists themselves adopt the term for their movement) Debussy
himself associated with figures of the Symbolist movement of the 1890s, who
were actually reactionary _against_ the Impressionists. Only Debussy's
harshest critics initially called his music Impressionism; the first use of the
term applied to him was in 1887 in the response to his offering of Printemps
for the Ecole des Beauz-Arts. Debussy was said to
"have a pronounced tendency—too pronounced—toward an exploration of the
strange. One has the feeling of musical color exaggerated to the point where
it causes the composer to forget the importance of precise construction and
form. It is to be stronly hoped that he will guard against this vague
impressionism, which is one of the most dangerous enemies of truth in works of
art."
Impressionism is a subjective method of interpreting reality and presenting a
distorted and highly personal rendition of what _is_; Symbolism is an objective
method of discerning reality and presenting an _intact_ interpretation for the
recipient to distort and make personal for himself. In this way, Scriabin is
more of an Impressionist than Debussy, for his works are vague, distorted, and
highly personal interpretations of what he perceived to be reality. Debussy,
on the other hand, is a Symbolist, for he attempted to paint musically accurate
portraits of sensual reality, but did _not_ pass any judgements or compose
subjectively to his environment; rather, he composed *passively*, conveying
with pure sound the _reality_ of what he saw, read, and heard.
Baudelaire: "The artist, the true artist, the true poet, should paint only in
accordance with what he sees and feels. He must be _truly_ faithful to his own
nature. He must avoid like death itself the temptation of borrowing the eyes
or the feelings of another man, however great, for in that case the production
he gave us would be a pack of lies, in relation to himself, not _realities_."
[underline=italic]
Debussy seems to agree: "What you will be finding here [in my music] are my
own sincere impressions of reality, exactly as I felt them."
Thus, although the term impression is used here, it does not imply the
"rendition of spontaneous impression into constructed form through
subjectivity" but rather "the constructed and apparent spontaneity of
impressions rendered into form through objectivity."
Debussy: "I wanted music to have a freedom that was perhaps more inherent than
any other art, for it is not limited to a more or less exact representation of
nature, but rather to the mysterious affinity that exists between Nature and
Imagination."
The original Impressionist painters—Pissarro, Monet, Degas, Renoir—showed the
viewer all that they desired through a subjective and distorted lens. *Active*
composition. This was a natural reaction to Realism, the reaction to
Romanticism. Compare these true impressionists with Whistler and Turner,
post-impressionist Symbolists. Like Baudelaire, like E.A. Poe, like Whistler
and Turner, Debussy never tells you that the sky is purple or houses are
triangular; in fact, musically, he does not interpret anything without
considering whether he is producing with music accurate portraits of
_realities_. Whistler's Nocturne paintings are far from Impressions; they
suggest unseen furtive realities, and create mystery of concealed truths, but
do so through a great clarity of brushstroke and even greater self-discipline
against excess pre-interpretation.
Like the poor inquisition victim made famous by Edgar Allen Poe, in the music
of Debussy all that one actualy knows is that fleeting melodies, strange
harmonies, and ideas hidden in shadows and just barely concealed from view
surround him. Debussy is Poe's musical inquisitioner, torturing us with
suspense and luring us into aural traps and then surprising us once again with
a new "reality." From reality to reality we go; as pianists, our job is to
seize the position of inquisitioner and tantalize the listener with realities
barely realized and just out of reach. This requires clarity and objectivety,
the "transparency of Mozart" combined with the shrouded, mysterious, and often
witty "eccentricity of Satie" and "mystery of Scriabin."
The Alfred Masterwork edition of La Cathedrale discusses the cryptic 6/4=3/2
time signature although I have heard concert performers ignore these
instructions. I've wondered how they could simply ignore something written so
clearly on the score without ever researching what it meant.
As for pedaling in Debussy, I thought that your original post was very accurate
and specific, Greg, about the "two faces" of Debussy, but I too feel some later
posts may have confused a bit of the meaning.
I have heard horrendous extremes by well-known pianists who either used too
much or too little pedal in Debussy (and Ravel). Most often they are pianists
who do not play much Debussy, i.e., Cliburn and Horowitz. Cliburn plays the
"cluster chords" in Ce Qu'a a vu le Vent D'ouest with the pedal down through
the entire progression, which is an example of interpreting "impressionist" as
"murky" and "unclear." I think this is a mistake, as I also feel it is a
mistake for the previous poster who planned to hold down the pedal through the
dramatic marcato chords in measures 92-93 of Reverie. Some of Debussy must be
pedaled frugally and responsibly no differently than any other music (pedal
each chord, pedal each major harmonic change, do not allow melody notes to blur
together when that is not clearly the intention of the composer).
On the other hand, there is Horowitz' awful rendition of l'isle joyeuse, in
which he uses almost no pedal at all and the piece sounds like a Bach toccata
on a badly tuned piano. For pieces such as this, La Cathedrale, Danseuses de
Delphes, Claire De Lune, et cetera, where Debussy is not clear in his pedal
indications common sense must dictate where and how much pedal should be used.
Uses of pedal which may be unique to Debussy's music include: blurring the
repeated chords together in Claire De Lune just before the center section with
a bit of fluttering to maintain the bass while achieving as much clarity as
possible in the upper chords, pedaling any "Bell" or "Gong" sonorities so as to
keep the dampers off allowing those sounds to ring while playing the melody
(most important in Danseuses), and using no dampers (all pedaled) for special
effects such as the submerged atmosphere of portions of La Cathedrale,
including parts indicated by "sans nuance" and the rising of the Cathedral.
However, the majestic middle fortissimo section needs to be half pedaled
carefully to keep the low C while changing for each of the chords played by
both hands.
Pedaling La Fille aux cheveux de lin is problematic because although the origin
of the title is known as the line of a poem by Leconte de Lisle of the same
name, Debussy may have also had in mind Wordsworth's poem, "The Solitary
Reaper."
"Solitary Highland lass
Reaping and singing by herself...
...I listened motionless and still;
And as I mounted up the hill,
The music in my heart I bore,
Long after it was heard no more."
The mood of Lisle's poem would suggest a faster tempo, a type of pastoral
idealism, with little pedal to support the archaic and pentatonic melody. If
one takes the approach of the "Solitary Highland lass/Reaping and singing by
herself" I would imagine playing this prelude with far more pedal through the
entire exposition of the melody, at a much slower tempo. And this is exactly
what we find in the recordings: fast tempos with little pedal, or slow tempos
with abundant rubato and lots of pedal. In this case, it's an interpretive
decision.
--Justin
**************************
www.mp3.com/justin_d_scott
**************************
Liszt, Scriabin, Schoenberg, Bach
Fractal Composition, Original Works
Debussy Orchestrations, and More
George Gilliland
Makes me want to run over to the the piano at 1:00 a.m. and wake up the neighbors
with Claire de Lune. . . actually, the moon is full tonight.
It's a lot of fun thinking about Debussy, and re-interpreting his stuff, because
the possibilities seem endless.
It never bothered me that impressionism is attached to Debussy, because I
associate the term with a time and place more than a philosophy. . . I also
associate it with great craftsmanship and beauty, which is a common thread running
through all the work of Debussy and all the great impressionist painters.
Re: pedaling: It seems to me that a lot of it has to do with the sonority of the
piano and the acoustics of the room. You can get away with a lot more pedal on a
really nice piano it seems.
G.
David McKay
We live in De Lisle Place, because the surroundings streets are all named
after Australian Governors-General.
We have discovered that a De Lisle wrote the words of La Marseillaise, and
now a later De Lisle wrote the poem which inspired Debussy's lovely piece!
And, I am interested in Debussy, too!
David McKay
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~musicke
Mark A.
>LstPuritan wrote:
>> The Alfred Masterwork edition of La Cathedrale discusses the cryptic 6/4=3/2
>> time signature although I have heard concert performers ignore these
>> instructions. I've wondered how they could simply ignore something written so
>> clearly on the score without ever researching what it meant.
The Dover "Autograph Score" edition of the Preludes Book 1 also has some
interesting notes about the mistakes in most printed editions of La
Cathedrale. Essentially, you have to double the tempo in measures
7-12 and 22-83. This matches what is heard on Debussy's piano roll
recording of the piece.
As for modern recordings, the Paul Jacobs one has the corrected
tempos, but there may be others that I'm not aware of. I find that
playing the piece this way sounds completely natural; otherwise, those
sections mentioned above just drag unbearably.
>> However, the majestic middle fortissimo section needs to be half pedaled
>> carefully to keep the low C while changing for each of the chords played by
>> both hands.
If you hold the low C with the sostenuto pedal, you can use clean damper
pedal changes on the chords. (Warning: do not attempt this on an
upright piano :-) ).