Steinway Gothic Logo

[cl...@my-deja.com]

I posted this 2 weeks ago with no answer, and I plan to make soon a
long trip to check and maybe buy this piano so your comments would be
appreciated.

I placed 2 pictures of the piano I got via e-mail at the following
links :
www.multimania.com/fledoux/steinwayo1.jpg
www.multimania.com/fledoux/steinwayo2.jpg

Here was my original post :

Do you know when Steinway switched from the various earlier versions of
its logo featuring kind of "gothic" letters (nearly the same found in
Bösendorfer logo)to the standard Steinway logo (i.e. the one found
today)?

I am considering buying a 1915 model O, which has the "old fashioned"
logo, written in a frame, and I am surprised, as I have seen many
pictures of earlier pianos (from 1895 or so) featuring the "modern"
logo...
Morover, the piano has a modern case (square legs), and most of the
pictures I saw with the old logos were pictures of classic cases

Anyone knows more about Steinway logos history ?

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[Rick Clark]

I can't answer about the logo history, but I'll say this: Fallboard
decals are items which are for sale. Judging by the gloss on the piano
finish in your picture, it appears to have been refinished at some
point (though it is obviously flawed), and someone certainly put the
decal on then. If it's "gothic", it's because that is the design they
bought.

The age of the piano is determined from the serial numbers. Decals
don't tell you anything unless you know they are original.

RC

[Niles Duncan]

Here's what I can tell you about Steinway logos. The old style cases with the
double half round molding around the lower part of the rim and Victorian legs
came with a gothic lettering logo that said:

Steinway & Sons
Patent Grand
New York
London $ Hamburg

I'm using $ to indicate the lyre symbol on the Steinway logo.

Some of the old style double molding cases came from the factory with straight
spade legs during the first decade of the 20th Century which was a transitional
period for piano styles. I have one such piano, a Hamburg A in which the above
logo is beautifully inlaid in contrasting veneer rather than a decal. However
since I haven't seen any other of these double molding/straight leg pianos in
original condition I'm not sure whether they all had the gothic lettered logo
or not.

The contemporary style plain case with straight legs which started to appear
during the first decade of the 20th Century had several styles of logos in
modern Roman style lettering. On pianos from the early teens I have seen the
following. Again $ indicates the lyre symbol.

$
STEINWAY & SONS
MAKERS

I've seen this as a decal on New York pianos, an example was a 1913 O that I
rebuilt some years ago, and on a 1912 Hamburg B that I have this is done in
inlaid veneer. Later in the teens they expanded this logo to the following:

STEINWAY & SONS
MAKERS
NEW YORK
LONDON $ HAMBURG

I don't know when during the teens they changed from the first to the second of
the above logos. The current decal :

$
STEINWAY & SONS

Seems to have appeared about 1920 and has been in use in various sizes since
then. I looked at the photos of the 1915 O you referred to. It's very
doubtful that the logo on the fallboard is original. I would use one of the
two "Steinway & Sons Makers" type logos that I indicated above. All of these
decals are available from Decals Unlimited, Mahtomedi, Wisconsin.

Niles Duncan
http://www.pianosource.com

[amoli...@visi-dot-com.com]

In article <39e1fb94...@news.mindspring.com>,

Rick Clark <Ple...@LobotomizeMe.com> wrote:
>I can't answer about the logo history, but I'll say this: Fallboard
>decals are items which are for sale.

This reminds me, with the arrival of these Stealth pianos
from China, which have ABSOLUTELY NO markings on them, it becomes
incredibly easy to make faux Steinways.

I seem to recall some discussion of this scam being done in
the past, but it seems that at least one chinese manufacturer (and,
possibly, others -- I don't mean to pick on the chinese) is nearly
inviting people to do it.

[Larry Fletcher]

>From: amolitor

You are correct. I have heard of this happening actually. In fact, I was
talking to another tech friend of mine just a month or so ago who ran into a
Belarus upright (talk about a box of crap!!) that had been sold to the customer
as a Steinway, complete with a real Steinway decal on the fallboard.

Dealers who do this, however, open themselves up to losing everything they own,
because most any manufacturer of any merit, if they could show who did it,
would sue the pants off the dealer, and rightly so.

The Chinese pianos with no names on them aren't being done this way with the
Chinese maker consciously inviting a dealer to stick major name brand decals on
them to fool anyone. They do it because several dealers around the country own
their own private label names, and it allows them to stick those names on the
pianos. It also allows them to sell pianos to every dealer on the street. This
is usually done by the lowest quality makers, though.

But you are right - if the dealer has no ethics, he can do whatever he wants to
them once he gets them, and as long as he doesn't get caught, consumers get
ripped off. I don't think the Steinway decal on the Chinese "no name" happens
very often however.

Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician

Doing the work of three men.........Larry, Moe, and Curly

[cl...@my-deja.com]

Thanks a lot Niles for this valuable information on Steinway logos.
I forgot to mention that this piano is for sale in France, and thus
probably comes from Hamburg, (but does this have an influence on logos
used ?). BTW, how can I know from the serial number wether it has been
built in Hamburg or NY (and would it really make any difference ?).

I will go and inspect this piano on Thursday, and probably buy it if
it's OK. the price seems very reasonable : ~10 000 $, not rebuilt as
the seller (a professional) pretends it doesn't need it for now, but
action has been checked and regulated, with minor parts replaced, and
the piano comes with free delivery (400 miles !) and a 5 years warranty.
The piano has a poor finish as it has been badly "painted" in black
satin in the 60's (it was an original mahogany finish), which explains
the price tag.
I plan maybe to buy this piano and have it refinished.
Any opinion on possible issues with this model O I should check next
Thursday ?

I saw a magnifiscent 1914 model O on your site Niles. Any comments on
this specific model from these years ??

Thanks a lot to everybody in the NG. You teach me a lot everyday !

[Al]

> This reminds me, with the arrival of these Stealth pianos
> from China, which have ABSOLUTELY NO markings on them, it becomes
> incredibly easy to make faux Steinways.

I just had this great image of a dodgy chinese piano flying across the sky
over serbia, with keys and stuff falling off lobbing bombs out........

Al

oh joy, I *gotta|* use that term.. 'so what's this piano? <<points to empty
space>> onna them stealth pianos? We *know* they exist, we *know* the FBI
have them on record.. *why* wont the US government just admit it......>>