Liszt Liebestraum #3 fingering..
Isako Hoshino
well, this is going to be my first "piano playing" question :)
I'm trying to play Liszt's Liebestraum #3 (A-flat major), and running
into bit of a problem on fingering.
on measure 25, starts a sequence of... uh.. notes, and this is what my
Dover's edition suggests my right hand fingering should be:
Ab G Db Bb Fb Eb .... and coming down Fb Eb Fb Eb Db Bb Ab G
Fb Eb Ab G Db Bb .... Db Bb Db Bb Ab G Fb Eb
4 3 4 3 4 3 ..... 4 3 4 3 4 3 4 3
1 2 2 1 2 1 ..... 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1
Coming down isn't as much a problem as the going up part (the
beginning) I find this upward sequence very awkward, and clumsy. I
guess I can force myself to learn this fingering, (and eventually get
used to it) but before I commit to that, I was hoping if anyone else
has a better fingering scheme....
Any takers?
Isako
Edward Chaban
that fast or because it just plain bothers your hands?
If the goal is to play this at lightning speed because it shows off
some sort of technical prowess on your part, I'd re-examine your
motivations. You're making MUSIC here. Do something interesting and
creative with the phrasing or tempo so that it becomes your OWN. We're
talking "deam of love" here not an etude or some sort of rhapsody.
Too often people try to recreate the interpretations of others. Don't
fall into that trap.
JMHO.
-Ed
Isako Hoshino
>Ask yourself this question: Is it awkward because you can't play it
>that fast or because it just plain bothers your hands?
I'm not too concerned about speed, actually. If the Dover edition's
suggested fingering *is* the best way, I will learn it. But why
blindly follow the editor's finging scheme when there might be
something better out there for me?
(for those who didn't read my original post, I'm talking about measure
25 on Liszt's Liebestraum #3, right fingerings) It just feels that the
fingering given in the Dover Edition makes it harder to keep the
legato. I guess my tendency is wanting to put a "5" in the sequence of
4-3-4-3-4-3 to make it easier to play it without sounding like I'm
jerking around. When I play the way it is suggested, my fingers feel
like it's getting tangled up, trying to occupy a same space at the
same time or something. (I guess I just don't move my fingers out of
the way fast enough, or they aren't limber enough, or whatever)
>
>If the goal is to play this at lightning speed because it shows off
>some sort of technical prowess on your part, I'd re-examine your
>motivations. You're making MUSIC here. Do something interesting and
>creative with the phrasing or tempo so that it becomes your OWN. We're
>talking "deam of love" here not an etude or some sort of rhapsody.
>
Don't worry. I know speed comes with practice and time... (really, I
have no technical prowess to show off to begin with! sort of lost
most of whatever I had during my 10-year absence from piano playing)
But I know that it helps to have a good fingering scheme when
eventually I start taking the piece at the speed which I think it
should be played at (not too fast, even at that). I also know that
different fingering scheme works better for different people. When I
used to take lessons and had problems playing a passage due to awkward
fingering, my teachers tried out different fingering scheme and let me
try it to see which ones feel most comfortable, and play smoothly.
Since I don't have an instructor "trying it out" for me right now, the
resource I have right now is to ask the net...
>Too often people try to recreate the interpretations of others. Don't
>fall into that trap.
No need for that worry too. I think I have my own "dream"
interpretation. This really causes problems since after i learn how to
play a piano piece, I have a hard time listening to recordings, since
the players won't play the way *I* want it played :) But that will
come *after* I master all then notes first!
So my original question still stands... any different fingering
schemes for the measure 25 right hand on Liebestraum #3 that I can try out?
Isako
mpel...@eciad.bc.ca
: fall into that trap.
: -Ed
Ed,
Why is this a trap? What's wrong with following in the footsteps of
others? Do we not learn to crawl before we can run???
-marc
Edward Chaban
Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with imitating a little.
My point is don't get too hung up on one person's interpretation.
In the case of Liebestraum #3, The phrase Isako is talking about is
almost always played sort of fast. Although I've heard an
interpretation by Egon Putz that takes it a little slower. A little
easier for a novice and, in my opinion, a welcome change from what we
usually hear.
We live in an age of recorded music. If performers simply mimic what
they're heard before, why have a live performance in the first place?
Just a thought.
-Ed
-Ed
mpel...@eciad.bc.ca
: Dover's edition suggests my right hand fingering should be:
: Ab G Db Bb Fb Eb .... and coming down Fb Eb Fb Eb Db Bb Ab G
: Fb Eb Ab G Db Bb .... Db Bb Db Bb Ab G Fb Eb
: 4 3 4 3 4 3 ..... 4 3 4 3 4 3 4 3
: 1 2 2 1 2 1 ..... 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1
: Coming down isn't as much a problem as the going up part (the
: beginning) I find this upward sequence very awkward, and clumsy. I
: guess I can force myself to learn this fingering, (and eventually get
: used to it) but before I commit to that, I was hoping if anyone else
: has a better fingering scheme....
: Any takers?
Hi Isako,
Well, I don't have the sheet music to this one, so I had to play from the
example you gave here... I actually think the fingering is quite good. I
tried to play the notes as best I could without looking at the fingering
you gave, I found my solution to be almost identical! Now, maybe this
comes from playing to many Dover eds.... =P The only changes I made were
in the accending sequence, instead of:
4 3 4 3 4 3 .... I used: 4 3 4 3 4 3 ....
1 2 2 1 2 1 .... 2 1 2 1 2 1 ....
Now, becuase this is difference is slight and only at the beggining, I
think there is a reason for this, possibly becuase fingers 2, 3 and 5 are
needed for some chord previous to thie sequence?
In the Decendind sequence, I used Identical fingering. However, I did
play around with the use of my 5 finger instread of 4. Both worked ok,
But I think 4 might be better. It all depends on the music before and
after, I guess.
Well I guess that was not to much help! Anyone have any better suggestions?
-marc
PS: If you left hand is not doing anything, you can always play the
sequence with both hands... or cross the hands and play reverse parts,
sometimes it's the only way... but probably not this time =)
Arthur Visser
>schemes for the measure 25 right hand on Liebestraum #3 that I can
try out?
>
>
> Isako
>
I looked up my score for you and found I've modified the printed
fingerings myself. At the start of bar 25 the Peters edition has for
the right hand:
435343 ... 43434343
122121 ... 21212121
I play
535353 ... 53535353
212121 ... 21212121
which allows indeed a better legato.
When playing this passage, pay attention to the slurs. It should be
played as repeated parts of six notes as indicated. Though it says
'senza Pedale' I think a slight use of it is okay and I suggest to
play it non presto.
Good luck with this beautiful piece!
Arthur
mpel...@eciad.bc.ca
: Don't
: >: fall into that trap.
: >: -Ed
: >
: >Ed,
: >
: >Why is this a trap? What's wrong with following in the footsteps of
: >others? Do we not learn to crawl before we can run???
: >
: > -marc
: >
: Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with imitating a little.
: My point is don't get too hung up on one person's interpretation.
fair enough.
: In the case of Liebestraum #3, The phrase Isako is talking about is
: almost always played sort of fast. Although I've heard an
: interpretation by Egon Putz that takes it a little slower. A little
: easier for a novice and, in my opinion, a welcome change from what we
: usually hear.
: We live in an age of recorded music. If performers simply mimic what
: they're heard before, why have a live performance in the first place?
: Just a thought.
I wish to do recordings on a CD such that all the songs are recorded
differently 4 or more times. The listener would not listen to
the same music over and over because it would be random what version
would play each time.
I'm actually against recordings, I appriciate music for it's temporary
time based effects.
-marc