Digital Piano Yamaha vs Technics
SSIrish
We are considering a purchase of a digital piano for our family. We have
looked at both the Yamaha Clavinova and the Technics Digital ensemble
(SX-PR305/K). Can anyone offer any comments or suggestions for us to
consider?
The sound of each seems to be OK in the showroom with a slight edge to the
Technics model. The Technics model was $1,500 greater.... Is it worth
it?
Jack Benzel
: Hi!
I just purchased a Yamaha Clavinova CVP79A(new model) after looking at
the Technic's PR305/307/309 and others. We got a price that local
dealers couldn't touch through Caruso Music(see FAQ for contact info)
and are very happy with it. If you call Caruso, ask for Lenny and tell
him I recommended you(no kickbacks, just a satisfied customer).
Jack Benzel
Rick Lawson
Steinway) and a better quality sample. They address harmonics, hammer
sounds and volume differences in their sample. Also the PR series offer
quite a bit more sounds than the Clavinova line (200 on the PR307) and
its much easier to operate. The warranty is 3 years versus 1 for
Clavinova.
Glenn Grafton
> Hi!
>
> We are considering a purchase of a digital piano for our family. We have
> looked at both the Yamaha Clavinova and the Technics Digital ensemble
> (SX-PR305/K). Can anyone offer any comments or suggestions for us to
> consider?
>
> The sound of each seems to be OK in the showroom with a slight edge to the
> Technics model. The Technics model was $1,500 greater.... Is it worth
> it?
The new CVP line of digital pianos tops anything in the industry from what
I've seen (but I may be a little biased). The user interface offers a
large backlit LCD display for selecting any voice, style, etc. which
greatly improves the ease of operation. The sounds and rhythms are great
and there's been a lot of new capabilities added.
The Clavinova line has consistently come out top in articles in Keyboard
Magazine, etc. and has a strong following among professional musicians.
(Check out page 14 of the Jan Keyboard magazine where Chuck Leavell is
playing a Clavinova with the Rolling Stones on their Vodoo Lounge Tour).
They read Disklavier disks, Clavinova disks and Clavinova disks and
convert to any of those formats as well. Built in sequencer features 16
tracks. Disks are standard MIDI files which means you can record on the
Clavinova, take the disk out and put it in a computer in another room and
open the files in most any sequencer or notation program.
We carry the entire line of Yamaha Clavinva Digital pianos and have our
own in house service department.
Substantial discounts for mail order. Brochures and demo tapes available.
Can send specs by E-mail. If interested in any models feel free to contact
me.
Glenn Grafton
Grafton Piano & Organ Co.
1081 County Line Rd.
Souderton PA 18964
metast...@delphi.com
>Hi!
>We are considering a purchase of a digital piano for our family. We have
>looked at both the Yamaha Clavinova and the Technics Digital ensemble
>(SX-PR305/K). Can anyone offer any comments or suggestions for us to
>consider?
>
>The sound of each seems to be OK in the showroom with a slight edge to the
>Technics model. The Technics model was $1,500 greater.... Is it worth
>it?
The real question is if "slight" is worth $1500.00? There are othitems that
might be able to help you make this decision.
When my students ask me about pianos, I have them look at the
extra things that go into a purchase. Compare the warrentees of
each instrument. It can tell a lot about how confident the
manufacturer is in a product.
Next, ask if there is an 800 number for consumer help on the brand. TOnce you
get the number, call it. See how fast you get to talk
to a real person and not a recording. This is important because
over the life of the instrument, there will be questions that you
will need answers to that the dealer may not have for you. Beside,
this can also be a good indication of how fast a manufacturer will
respond when you need a part or something else for your investment.
Last, look into the software that is specific to the instrument. What
if any major piano methods are supported by the manufacturer with
software that is specific to the brand in question. Again, this shows the level
of commitment to support their product.
Just about everyone today can play General MIDI disks, but remember ththat they
are General. Product specific disks will sound better
in most cases than a General MIDI equivlant.
Hope you found this helpful
Jack Benzel
: Technics offers more sound, a better piano sampled (the 9 foot Hamburg
This is a very subjective opinion and changes radically from person to
person.
: They address harmonics, hammer sounds and volume differences in their
: sample.
The Yamaha CVP79A has *5* different samples for velocity sensitivity and
the Technics have only 3. I'm not sure why you imply that the Yamaha
samples don't have harmonics and hammer sounds - I can hear them.
: Also the PR series offer quite a bit more sounds than the Clavinova line
: (200 on the PR307) and its much easier to operate.
You probably haven't seen the new Yamaha series CVP59/69A/79A. They have
a large LCD display and a *very* easy to operate for even my 7 year old
and my wife. ;-)
: The warranty is 3 years versus 1 for Clavinova.
The CVP79A carries a 1 year parts and labor plus another 4 years parts.
This post sure sounded either uninformed or just blatant misinformation.
Jack Benzel
j...@fc.hp.com
LakewoodQ
writes:
>Just about everyone today can play General MIDI disks, but remember
ththat
>they
>are General.
This is generally true (no pun intended), but there is a difference in
being able to play General MIDI disks and being General MIDI compatible. I
know this sounds weird, but on rather well know manufacturer claims to be
General MIDI compatible, when in fact their products are far from General
MIDI. They do, however, play General MIDI disks.
General MIDI is simply a system that numbers the sounds uniformly form
brand to brand, usually using the numers 0-127, with 0 being a piano. One
company I've dealt with numbers their sounds from 1-128: same number of
sounds but when a GM disk calls up sound number 6, it's actually playing
sound number 7. Makes it a real pain.
The company I mentioned above only has 60 sounds on thier instruments, and
when a GM disk is inserted, it chosses the sound that most closesly
resembles what the disk is actually calling for. There are a few other
strange idiosyncracies about that brand that make it strange compared to
others. If anybody wants more information on those quirks, please e-mail
me directly.
Chris Honeck
LakewoodQ
(Rick Lawson) writes:
> The warranty is 3 years versus 1 for
>Clavinova.
Unless Yamaha has recently (within the last 3 months) changed their terms,
the Clavinova warranty is 5 years parts, 1 year labor.
I used to sell both brands, and I'm partial to the Technics, although I
must admit that the new Clavinovas are very good. I own products from both
companies, and you really can't go wrong with either one.
Chris Honeck
Rick Lawson
sampling is not correct. The Technics instrument samples 7 different
volume levels according to my factory rep. I was aware that the Yamaha
had a LCD screen, I just felt that all of Technics operations were
easier than the Yamaha. Also, I think a sampled Steinway sounds better
than a sampled Yamaha...
metast...@delphi.com
something that is the same from
manufacturer to manufactu It is possible to sample a Steinway and have it sound
worse than a lower quality piano. What goes into
the process used, the amplifier, speakers, all contirbute to the quality
of the sound heard. So, just becuase an instrument samples 7 or 10 or whatever
different levels does not always mean that it is better.
If everyone used the same process in tone production, then these specs would be
good items to go by. But since they don't, it would seem that the best way to
go is by your own ears.
As far as the ease of operation, for the person that started this thread,
assume that you are going to at some point need assistance from your
dealer. This relationship is the most important. If your dealer handles both
brands, go with their recommendation. If not, go with the dealer you're most
comfortable with.
metast...@delphi.com
>This is generally true (no pun intended), but there is a difference in
>being able to play General MIDI disks and being General MIDI compatible. I
>know this sounds weird, but on rather well know manufacturer claims to be
>General MIDI compatible, when in fact their products are far from General
>MIDI. They do, however, play General MIDI disks.
General MIDI logo on the sequencer but the device won't read Standard
MIDI files. I wonder what good having the sound set is when you can't
read any of the disks associated with that sound file (You can of
course play the sounds from an external computer or other sequencer
but this shouldn't have to be done if the General MIDI logo appears)
metast...@delphi.com
>Hi!
>
>We are considering a purchase of a digital piano for our family. We have
>looked at both the Yamaha Clavinova and the Technics Digital ensemble
>(SX-PR305/K). Can anyone offer any comments or suggestions for us to
>consider?
>
>The sound of each seems to be OK in the showroom with a slight edge to the
>Technics model. The Technics model was $1,500 greater.... Is it worth
>it?
my students ask about an instrument, there are other things I have
them ask. If you are new to this type of instrument, you will have
questions that your dealer can answer for you. The more assistance
you feel you need the more important that dealer will be to you so
unless you are an expert at digital pianos, you might consider avg the
temptation to use mail order.
True you will spend more but having that person there that you can
go to and have them sit down with you and show you how to use your
new instrument will make sure that you will get the most enjoyment
out of your purchase. An instrument that you pay $3000.00 for instead
of $4000.00 that sits there unused is $3000.00 wasted where a $4000.00
instrument being used is worth $4000.00.
If you agree, then it is more important to determine which brand and dealer
will give you the support you desire after you purchase.
Ask for the following. Does the manufacturer have an 800 number for
answers to questions? If so, get the number and call it. See how long it takes
to talk to a real person and note their attitude. This can go
a long way to showing you how committed a company is to helping you enjoy your
new instrument.
Ask about the dealers lesson programs. Do they have users group meetings? Do
they have lessons available (not the free ones that usually
go with the purchase)? If so, what ages and what do they cover? If no
lessons are given, tells you about their commitment to make sure you
learn to play.
Specifications can be misleading. You can have the greatist specs in the world
but still not have a good sounding instrument to your ears.
When dealing with specs, let your ears and how you feel at the instrument be
your guide. Ask yourself, did the salesperson let me sit
at the instrument or did they play the whole time? If the salesperson
never let you sit at the keyboard and "push the buttons", you'll never
be sure that it is easy to work.
After all this, buy from the place that you feel comfortable in and
have confidence in. If you don't feel this way at either of these
places, find another dealer. Even if the new dealer doesn't carry
either of these brands, if you feel that they will help you to enjoy
your purchase, buy from them.
Good luck.
Dennis Stanfill
>play any triad and hold it and listen as it dies away: if it's like any
of
>the model's I've tried, you will hear a hiss when the chord dies down.
>This may or may not bother you--I practice mostly with headphones, and
I
>wouldn't have been able to stand it, especially having paid for a high-
end
>digital.
>
Never heard this Michael in any Yamaha.
Also, there are quirks in the Technics too. <BG> For example, on the
lower end models, try this: Hit octave C's on the low end of the keyboard
with the sustain pedal on and then lay your arms across the keyboard
(this is a note polyphony test that was done by the folks at Keyboard
Magazine). On certain Technics models, the Low C's will vanish where they
will still play on the Clavinova. So you see, no brand is perfect :-)
Also, new models are constantly arriving.
Still say that the dealer and the assistance needed for a new person
involved in the first purchase is worth far more than specs or any other
factor. Find the dealer who you trust, will give you the needed help when
you ask, and the store that feels good to you and your purchase will be a
family treasure.
Also, still believe that the only time you consider mail order is if you
are expert enough that you will need no local assistance with the
purchase. Your local dealer is not "ripping you off" The fact are the
mail order houses can buy the items from the manufacturers for less than
your local guy (it is concievable that a mail order house selling an item
for $800 less than your local dealer will actually make more profit on
the sale than the local guy). In addition, your local retailer pays taxes
in your community to support local schools and other community services,
provides local jobs, supports your local community through different
programs, and a host of other intangibles that are most often forgotten
when looking to purchase.
Michael Scott
>Hi!
>
>We are considering a purchase of a digital piano for our family. We have
>looked at both the Yamaha Clavinova and the Technics Digital ensemble
>(SX-PR305/K). Can anyone offer any comments or suggestions for us to
>consider?
>
>The sound of each seems to be OK in the showroom with a slight edge to the
>Technics model. The Technics model was $1,500 greater.... Is it worth
>it?
You don't mention what model of Yamaha you were comparing to the PR305/K.
I shopped digital pianos for two years (and in 4 cities) before buying, and
every quote I got for comparably spec'd Yamahas was higher than for the
equivalent Technics. Even mail-order, the CLP-157 was higher than the
Techics PX107, by a few hundred. I can't believe that you'd find a $1,500
price difference in Yamaha's favor for equivalent models. (When I was buying,
the best showroom price I could get for the CLP-157 was a full $1000 more than
the PX107). I wasn't interested in ensemble instruments, so I didn't price
them.
Also, before you buy a Yamaha, try this test. While wearing headphones,
play any triad and hold it and listen as it dies away: if it's like any of
the model's I've tried, you will hear a hiss when the chord dies down.
This may or may not bother you--I practice mostly with headphones, and I
wouldn't have been able to stand it, especially having paid for a high-end
digital.
-- Mike
Michael Scott
>Also, before you buy a Yamaha, try this test. While wearing headphones,
>>play any triad and hold it and listen as it dies away: if it's like any
>of
>>the model's I've tried, you will hear a hiss when the chord dies down.
>>This may or may not bother you--I practice mostly with headphones, and
>I
>end
>>digital.
>>
>
>Never heard this Michael in any Yamaha.
>
these things in various showrooms (concentrating on the high-end non-
ensemble models), and this feature was present on every one I tried,
up to and including the CLP-157. It's been a year since I played one,
though, so maybe they've fixed the bug in recently manufactured units.
Just before I bought my instrument a year ago (struggling chose between
the PX107 and CLP-157), a participant in this newsgroup complained about
this problem in his CLP-155, miffed because he was using the instrument
to make recordings. He called Yamaha, who acknowledged the presence of
the effect, and made some suggestions to him about electronic filters he
could use to get rid of the noise. Not amused, he eventually returned
his instrument.
>Also, there are quirks in the Technics too. <BG> For example, on the
>lower end models, try this: Hit octave C's on the low end of the keyboard
>with the sustain pedal on and then lay your arms across the keyboard
>(this is a note polyphony test that was done by the folks at Keyboard
>Magazine). On certain Technics models, the Low C's will vanish where they
>will still play on the Clavinova. So you see, no brand is perfect :-)
>
Hmm--I wasn't interested in the low-end models, so I never tried that
test on one of them. Which models fail? I'll have to stop by a shop
and see if that's a bug still present in this year's PX201 and PX203.
>Also, new models are constantly arriving.
>
There was about an 18-month interval between the introduction of the
CLP-123 and the newer CLP-15x's, and I'm not aware of Yamaha introducing
anything new non-ensemble digitals since then (a year ago). Pretty much
the same for Technics and all the others: these things take _time_ to
develop and get to market. If you call that "constantly" ...
>Still say that the dealer and the assistance needed for a new person
>involved in the first purchase is worth far more than specs or any other
>factor. Find the dealer who you trust, will give you the needed help when
>you ask, and the store that feels good to you and your purchase will be a
>family treasure.
>
I'm inclined to believe that there's no such thing as a "dealer you can
trust". I need a reason to grant trust to people; there's rarely any
good reason to trust someone trying to sell you something, especially
something like a piano or a car, where there's little hope of the
dealer seeing you again any time soon for a repeat purchase. I listen
to dealers and have gotten much useful and truthful information from
them, but I always weigh it carefully against information from sources
who don't stand to profit from me. I also like to "buy where I try" when
I can, but I saved a $1000 over the best price offered me locally for
my instrument (I could have bought the CLP-157 for $2000 less than
locally); I don't know about you, but I can't afford to pay that kind of
money in gratitude for showroom demonstrations.
>Also, still believe that the only time you consider mail order is if you
>are expert enough that you will need no local assistance with the
>purchase. Your local dealer is not "ripping you off" The fact are the
>mail order houses can buy the items from the manufacturers for less than
>your local guy (it is concievable that a mail order house selling an item
>for $800 less than your local dealer will actually make more profit on
>the sale than the local guy). In addition, your local retailer pays taxes
>in your community to support local schools and other community services,
>provides local jobs, supports your local community through different
>programs, and a host of other intangibles that are most often forgotten
>when looking to purchase.
>
I prefer to pay shopkeepers only for mechandise or services rendered--it's
so hard to know whether you're getting a good deal on "intangibles". If my
community is getting a shortfall on taxes collected from local merchants,
they can make it up elsewhere.
There are many readers of this teleconference who have bought mail-order,
saved large sums of money and are ecstatically happy, including myself. Of
course, when my instrument grows old and starts having mechanical problems,
getting service could be a hassle. But I'll almost certainly be living
elsewhere by that time, anyway.
Please note that I'm not panning Yamaha digitals--I think that they make a
wonderful product which I came very close to owning (I'm already eyeing
their new 48" upright Silent Piano/Disclavier combo for my next
instrument). I have merely mentioned a problem with their instruments
which I have personally observed which would have bothered me; it might
not be a problem at all for many other people (people who always play their
instruments through the speakers might never even hear it; you'd only
notice it in the occasional piece even through headphones).
-- Mike
Isako Hoshino
>Hi!
>
>We are considering a purchase of a digital piano for our family. We have
>looked at both the Yamaha Clavinova and the Technics Digital ensemble
>(SX-PR305/K). Can anyone offer any comments or suggestions for us to
>consider?
>
>The sound of each seems to be OK in the showroom with a slight edge to the
>Technics model. The Technics model was $1,500 greater.... Is it worth
>it?
>
Hi there,
The $1500 can be because you may be looking at a different
model-level... THe PR models in Technics is called "digital ensemble"
which allows you to play many non-piano sounds. The equivalent model
in Yamaha will have the prefix CVP-. So, when you're comparing
prices, compare between Technics PR-series and Yamaha CVP-series, and
similarly between Technics PX-series and Yamaha CLP-series.
In general, between comparable prices, the difference really should be
a few hundred dollars at most ($200-$500), and not in the thousands
range.
If you want all the orchestral sounds, you want to look at Technics
PR- and Yamaha CVP-series. If not, you'll be happy with PX- and CLP-
series (and save you $1000-2000).
That aside, I prefer the sound of Technics over Yamaha. Technics
really goes into detail, trying to reproduce the acoustic piano sound
as true as possible. So, for every note you play, it is producing
three different sounds... the harp resonance (sounds like when you
lightly drag your fingernails across the piano wires), wood resonance
(sounds like hammer striking wood... sort of a light knocking sound)
and the piano sound itself. Also, between comparable models of
Technics and Yamahas, Technics seems to have more polyphony, amplifier
power, etc. (however, I think Yamaha edges out on availability of
half-pedaling capability of soft pedals in their high-end CLP models.
I wonder when Technics will make that available?)
Beyond that, between comparable models, it's really up to you, I
think. They are both well-respected companies. Once you decide, I
think you'll be happy going either way.
Isako
Isako Hoshino
>Also, before you buy a Yamaha, try this test. While wearing headphones,
>>play any triad and hold it and listen as it dies away: if it's like any
>of
>>the model's I've tried, you will hear a hiss when the chord dies down.
>>This may or may not bother you--I practice mostly with headphones, and
>I
>>wouldn't have been able to stand it, especially having paid for a high-
>end
>>digital.
>>
>
>Never heard this Michael in any Yamaha.
>
I haven't hear any hisses in my Technics PX-107 either... Are you
sure it's not just a bad contact in your headphone jack, or the
headphone itself? I have two headphones... One Sony,
(semi-lightweight) and Panasonic (full-sized headphone) both of them
are rated "digital" and has a very wide frequency reponse (beyond what
my stereo, or the digital piano can produce, and what I can hear).
And I still dont' hear any hissing noise.. (actually Panasonic
headphone had the best test results at some lab tests among other few
years back... wicked expensive but REALLY good headphones) The only
non-intentional sound i hear through the speakers is sometimes when I
turn the piano power switch on or off while I have my headphones on.
Isako
Roland Diehl
a professional musician I have played with both the Technics and the
Yamaha. I find them almost identical as far as features are concerned.
The Yamaha I have has been used constantly for the past 10 years, and has
needed no maintenance in spite of falling over twice and being rained on.
(Outdoor recital)
The only superior feature of the Technics is a heavier weighted action
which I personally find more appealing.
Overall, I recommend the Yamaha.
-
Rolypoly VQW...@prodigy.com
j.king...@gmail.com
But if not, I have a top of the line Technics I would part. With. Never been used more than a few times.
Wife and I took lessons but did not continue.
Should have purchased a player piano. This equipment does everything, best offer ! j.king...@gmail.com