Learning Paino (via teacher?)
David Thornley
Is it possible to become competant just by teaching yourself?
I have been teaching myself the last few months. So far i can play the first
25 or so measures of J.S. Bach's Two part invention in Amin. I memorised all
of Beethovens Moonlight Sonata, Fur Elise, and a few others. I'm just
leaning another of Beethovens, Sonatina i think but only have the beginner's
score and i don't like the sound of missing bass notes, anyway.
In moonlight sonata there are some chords that i can only get from attacking
the piano fowardly so other notes are not getting hit. One example in a
couple of places there is a chord being C and D where the D is the next
octive up, my hands will only reach the next C octive comfortably if I
attack the key moving down. I have to have my palm in front of the keyboard
and just the tips of my fingers touching the keys to get it right but it
doesn't feel right. Is this the correct way? or do I just have too small
hands?
I don't know many people who know how to play, only of my friends parents
who used to play when she was the same age, she couldn't believe I went
straight to level 6/7, but i'm afraid that i'm not learning the correct way
and it will take a long time to unlearn my mistakes. I also wonder if
getting taught to play restricts a persons creativity, for example "no, do
it this way, thats how it should be done", when in fact your creating your
own more efficient style. Someone told me once that Chopin used to only play
with 3 fingers and a thumb not using his pinky at all.
Well it's just a few questions, any thoughts or help would be greatly
appreciated. I might start looking around for a teacher and see what
happens, i'm also most likely too old (21) to actually go anywhere
professionally with piano.
David T.
Ethel Jean Saltz
<dav...@touchstar.com.au> wrote:
>I don't know many people who know how to play, only of my friends parents
>who used to play when she was the same age, she couldn't believe I went
>straight to level 6/7, but i'm afraid that i'm not learning the correct way
>and it will take a long time to unlearn my mistakes. I also wonder if
>getting taught to play restricts a persons creativity, for example "no, do
>it this way, thats how it should be done", when in fact your creating your
>own more efficient style. Someone told me once that Chopin used to only play
>with 3 fingers and a thumb not using his pinky at all.
==================
I think at this point you might try to find a "Class Piano" course.
It's worked wonders for me. Makes a difference with more than one
student learning at the same time you are.
You know any music store that sells pianos could easily provide "class
piano" because they have the resources. One private teacher I know
could easily have taught two people at the same time because he had
two grands side-by-side. I would rather take piano lessons with at
least one other person. Makes a big difference in the distribution of
information. No two people, of any level of expertise, are alike.
However, it seems to have made a big difference in getting dependable
instruction.
What happened to me last spring is that I thought I was really slow.
Until I saw the little recital by the parallel class piano students.
They were all as slow as me. Seems I just happened to be in a class of
musically above-average students. This recital effected my confidence
level for the better. In all cases, we were getting the same kind of
technical instruction which included always "more than one way" to
solve any single problem. The rest depends on how you choose to
practice for perfection or not do so.
My reasons for taking piano are not for performance, but to simply get
used to this tool for composition. Music is greater than any single
instrument for me. The piano giving you access to both bass and treble
simultaneously and because of fixed pitch, is a great "orchestral"
instrument. Then there's my own voice. Together, they make an
affordable method of learning a lot about music in general. And also
providing psychotherapy.
However, if I were a lot younger, I'd have more anticipated years
ahead of me and my strategy would be different.
Be-ahavah be-shalom, Queen Jean of Creekbend
Mac-Niet-Spin-Gal, 390 A.G. (after Galileo/1609)
Worlds Greatest Jewish Thinker - Spinoza-ETHICS
World's Greatest Songs - Psalms in Hebrew
World's Greatest Literature - TaNaK/Old Testament
mailto: nie...@airmail.net
Tom Shaw
know? What are a few missing notes? What is wrong with not being able
to spell "paino"? If you can play all those pieces in only the last few
months I can see no reason why you would need a teacher.
By the way there is a key on your keyboard called the "Shift" key. You
should have it checked out since it only works about half the time.
TS
David Thornley wrote:
>
> Is getting taught to play piano buy a professional teacher really worth it.
> Is it possible to become competant just by teaching yourself?
> I have been teaching myself the last few months. So far i can play the first
> 25 or so measures of J.S. Bach's Two part invention in Amin. I memorised all
> of Beethovens Moonlight Sonata, Fur Elise, and a few others. I'm just
> leaning another of Beethovens, Sonatina i think but only have the beginner's
> score and i don't like the sound of missing bass notes, anyway.
>
> In moonlight sonata there are some chords that i can only get from attacking
> the piano fowardly so other notes are not getting hit. One example in a
> couple of places there is a chord being C and D where the D is the next
> octive up, my hands will only reach the next C octive comfortably if I
> attack the key moving down. I have to have my palm in front of the keyboard
> and just the tips of my fingers touching the keys to get it right but it
> doesn't feel right. Is this the correct way? or do I just have too small
> hands?
>
> I don't know many people who know how to play, only of my friends parents
> who used to play when she was the same age, she couldn't believe I went
> straight to level 6/7, but i'm afraid that i'm not learning the correct way
> and it will take a long time to unlearn my mistakes. I also wonder if
> getting taught to play restricts a persons creativity, for example "no, do
> it this way, thats how it should be done", when in fact your creating your
> own more efficient style. Someone told me once that Chopin used to only play
> with 3 fingers and a thumb not using his pinky at all.
>
Dean Tran
David,
Get yourself a good teacher, there are hundreds of skills that you will
learn to do it right, before you can play it right.
One can injure oneself with bad techniques in no time.
Make sure your teacher is also qualified.
Dean
Tjako van Schie
Here is lesson 1.
Go get a good teacher! You are never too old! You really definitively need a
teacher. And if you find a decent one the money is worth your investment.
Why?
a. to get feedback on your playing.
b. to correct your mistakes
c. to stimulate you on the good things in your play
d. to help you on technical and musical difficulties
e. to asist in repertoire choice
f. for the fun of having lessons
g. for musical new ideas
h. for letting teachers pay their bills...
i. for faster progress
j. etc.
k. to develop your skills and to go to lesson 2....
Tjako van Schie, Dutch pianist & teacher at the Amsterdam Conservatory
tjakov...@castel.nl
http://users.castel.nl/~schic02
David Thornley
Tom Shaw <a000...@mail.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:FD85E368062893D6.969FDBBD...@lp.airnews.net...
> I think you are doing fine without a teacher. After all what do they
> know? What are a few missing notes? What is wrong with not being able
> to spell "paino"? If you can play all those pieces in only the last few
> months I can see no reason why you would need a teacher.
> By the way there is a key on your keyboard called the "Shift" key. You
> should have it checked out since it only works about half the time.
>
> TS
>
>
> David Thornley wrote:
> >
> > Is getting taught to play piano buy a professional teacher really worth
it.
> > Is it possible to become competant just by teaching yourself?
Cc88m
>couple of places there is a chord being C and D where the D is the next
>octive up, my hands will only reach the next C octive comfortably if I
>attack the key moving down. I have to have my palm in front of the keyboard
>and just the tips of my fingers touching the keys to get it right but it
>doesn't feel right. Is this the correct way? or do I just have too small
>hands?
>
Note that whenever this happens, it is in the RH and the LH if free, so play
the C in LH and the D and everything else in the RH. Since the pedal is always
down, this creates no problems. You can even use finger 3 to play the C!!!!
:)) (actually, the first occurrence is a B-C)
>
>David T.
>
C. C. Chang
Ethel Jean Saltz
wrote:
>
>David,
>
>Get yourself a good teacher, there are hundreds of skills that you will
>learn to do it right, before you can play it right.
>
>One can injure oneself with bad techniques in no time.
>
>Make sure your teacher is also qualified.
>
>Dean
This reminds me of my own gifted in drawing/painting daughter. From
the time she was 8 to 15 she disdained getting a private art teacher.
"I'm better than any one else." And she was good too. And she was
satisfied. Since she had to spend her own money for art supplies (I
gave them an annual budget for all their needs with the exception that
if they took extra education the sky was the limit and equality among
the 3 didn't count). Well she accepted this and did the best she could
with limited money resources. Then when she was 15, her 17YO sister
and friends took art lessons at Corcoran Art School in D.C. After the
first lesson she criticized the teacher and didn't want to go back. I
urged her to give it one more try. I told her the truth. I said I
thought she had "lost" it in art and was degrading. If the next lesson
wasn't good then she could quit. She never stopped taking lessons
again. I never even knew what her teacher looked like. This second
lesson, a pencil drawing I still have framed, was praised highly by
the teacher. I knew then how good she was. But just think of those 8
years that she could have gotten recognition and money spent on her to
be a great artist. I think she chose a very lonely path. During those
lost years I tried to convince her by explaining how all the great
artists looked first for teachers. And this is true for Bach, Mozart,
et al.
P.S. she still thinks I didn't treat her as fairly as I did her
brother and sister, who got extra support/money besides the budget
when they took lessons. Actually it was her brother, because he joined
the Civil Air Patrol and learned a lot including how to fly when he
was 16. And during that time she did take piano lessons. As I write
this I still shake my head at stubbornness among some truly gifted. A
friend had a gifted musical daughter who refused to take piano
lessons. It really hurts us moms.
Franklin Howell
David Thornley wrote:
> Is getting taught to play piano buy a professional teacher really worth it.
> Is it possible to become competant just by teaching yourself?
> I have been teaching myself the last few months. So far i can play the first
> 25 or so measures of J.S. Bach's Two part invention in Amin. I memorised all
> of Beethovens Moonlight Sonata, Fur Elise, and a few others. I'm just
> leaning another of Beethovens, Sonatina i think but only have the beginner's
> score and i don't like the sound of missing bass notes, anyway.
David, Please try to understand that when some people read comments such as the
above, it is difficult to tell whether the writer is sincere or whether the post
is simply spam. To put it mildly, if you really want to play that stuff you
need professional guidance. I will comment briefly on some of your points.
> In moonlight sonata there are some chords that i can only get from attacking
> the piano fowardly so other notes are not getting hit.
What does that tell you about what you are trying to do? What are you hoping to
hear someone in the newsgroup say, to just go ahead and skip over the notes?
That they're not that important?
You're going to damage your hands if you're not careful. Drop the piece and get
an instructor.
<snip>
> Is this the correct way? or do I just have too small
> hands?
There is virtually no such thing.
<snip>
> . . . she couldn't believe I went straight to level 6/7,
Is stepping into such a level, simply because you chose to do so, the same thing
as actually being in that level? It looks like you are trying to skip over the
"children" pieces and get on to the "good stuff." Subconsciously, you may think
this will keep you more interested in what you are doing because the pieces are
more entertaining. Don't do this. Such an approach will result in the
opposite. The practice sessions will always be nothing more than arduous labor,
the progress will be nil, and you will gradually lose interest. I assure you,
when a teacher gets you on the right track and you are playing those dorky
children pieces flawlessly and with quality singing tone, you will not be
disappointed.
> but i'm afraid that i'm not learning the correct way and it will take a long
> time to unlearn my mistakes.
If you have only been playing for a few months, there is most likely nothing
developed enough that won't easily dissolve.
> I also wonder if getting taught to play restricts a persons creativity, for
> example "no, do
> it this way, thats how it should be done", when in fact your creating your own
> more efficient style.
So far all you've reported is that you're skipping over some notes of a
Beethoven sonata because you cannot reach them. Everyone loves a hero, but an
actual innovator is a master of the rule he is breaking. In other words, he
doesn't merely do it his way because he feels like it, but rather finds a way to
improve it. The above comment is superficial. It is missing the substance that
needs the improvement.
Perhaps you've heard some horror stories about stuffy teachers. A good
instructor not only understands the reason behind every assigned detail, s/he
also knows how to explain it to the student so that he understands what it is he
is working on. No one is ever left in the dark.
> Someone told me once that Chopin used to only play with 3 fingers and a thumb
> not using his pinky at all.
Someone once told me that George Washington chopped down a cherry tree and then
told his dad all about it.
> Well it's just a few questions, any thoughts or help would be greatly
> appreciated. I might start looking around for a teacher and see what
> happens, i'm also most likely too old (21) to actually go anywhere
> professionally with piano.
>
> David T.
I am always excited to hear from anyone who takes an interest in learning
classical music. But unlike some of our more "hip" marketers these days, I find
few if any new methods to draw the public into it particularly appealing, or
even functional for that matter. I continue to insist that classical music is
an elitist art form. It is simply not for everybody. If you want to learn the
piano, I assure you that you are taking on a skill that you will never regret.
It will enrich your life through the years in a way that no other skill or hobby
can do. But you need to learn it the correct way so you can benefit the most
from it.
You can go ahead with your self training if you so choose. The result will be
the accumulation of a few works in which all of them are sloppy, uneven, and
will eventually become more of an irritation to play instead of a fulfilling joy
that you have yet to experience. You are wasting your time with pieces such as
the "Moonlight," not because it is unorthodox for a beginner to attempt it, but
simply because it is much too advanced. The first movement is a deception to
the untrained ear. It sounds innocent enough for a beginner, but it is in fact
very difficult to bring out the correct tone, mood, and character of the
movement. Playing all of notes is only the beginning. And you can forget about
the third movement of that piece forever. Unless, of course, you really want to
learn the instrument correctly, which you can certainly do. Good luck in your
decision.
Franklin Howell