How Much for New Steinway Soundboard???
M Putnam
if anyone knows roughly how much Steinway would charge to install a
new soundboard. The piano really doesn't need any other restoration
work.
I imagine they charge an arm and a leg since I know replacing a
soundboard is not easy ... but I have no concept as to how many
thousands of dollars I'd be paying.
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
Mark
Dave Andrews
Hi Mark,
I no longer have the price list from Steinway for their own factory rebuild
division in Long Island City (since I opted out of the institutional sales
program a couple years ago because of a lack of time) but I can tell you with
relative certainty two things: first, a turn of the century piano needs more
than a soundboard; and secondly, that by the time you complete all the
necessary work for a complete restoration by the factory, your total cost will
be in the neighborhood of 80% of the price of a new one. I believe that a
Steinway K would be the closest relative of your piano, so it's hard to imagine
that you're going to escape with a fee (net of round trip transportation) any
less than $10, 000 to $12,000. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
With all due respect,
Dave Andrews
D. W. Andrews Associates
Church Music System Specialists
"Two Hacks Working Out Of A Garage"
Disclaimer: If there are two ways to take my words,
always assume I was after the cheap laugh.
Larry
"Vertigrand" by the way is just a marketing buzzword. Lots of manufacturers
back then had similar terms designed to make the consumer think they were
buying a grand piano in an upright case. They weren't. You have an old upright.
> I'm curious
>if anyone knows roughly how much Steinway would charge to install a
>new soundboard. The piano really doesn't need any other restoration
>work.
Yes it does. In fact, it needs everything else more than it needs a new
soundboard. You have to take the strings out and pull the plate just to get to
the soundboard. So there's a restringing job right off the top. The odds are
pretty strong that the old pinblock will not handle the restringing, and even
if it will, I wouldn't advise leaving the old pinblock in a piano when you have
it taken apart far enough to put in a new soundboard. You could go with
oversized pins, but 1: it is preferable to have the smaller tuning pins, and 2:
the old pinblock might give up on you in a few years anyway, meaning you've got
to take it all apart all over again.
Why do you think you need a new soundboard by the way? Is it because you have
found some cracks in it? This is no reason to replace a soundboard. Of far more
importance is the condition of the bridges, and the fact that your strings are
dead. If the piano is too "boomy" for you a new soundboard might be in order,
but other than that it is all the other things you think you *don't* need that
you need the most. If the soundboard has sufficient crown, I would spend my
money having a local quality rebuilder install a new pinblock, recap the
bridges, and restring the piano. If he finds cracks he can fill them. Then if I
have some money left over I'd have the action rebuilt. I assure you the felts
in your action are in far worse shape than your soundboard, unless it is
actually split open and pulling out of the case somewhere.
Replacing the soundboard would be the last thing I would consider doing unless
I were going to do a full out total remanufacturing of the piano. And even
then, I wouldn't have it done by Steinway. You'll pay a fortune for the
priviledge, and there are rebuilders all over the country who do better work
for less money. Speaking of money, expect to pay in the range of 7-8K to do
what you have asked about, and then expect to have to do it all over again when
the old pinblock gives out, which it will. Or, spend 10-12K, maybe more, to do
it right. Remember too, that this kind of money can buy a pretty nice piano.
Weigh this option before you spend that kind of money on an old upright,
Steinway or not.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician
Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe
Want to visit another piano related messageboard? Go to the piano discussion
group on my website:
Rick Clark
>>I have a turn-of-the-century Steinway upright vertigrand.
>
>"Vertigrand" by the way is just a marketing buzzword. Lots of manufacturers
>back then had similar terms designed to make the consumer think they were
>buying a grand piano in an upright case. They weren't. You have an old upright.
To be fair, I don't think it's as cynical as that. One needs to
remember, at the turn of the (20th) century, that the flimsy, inferior
old uprights of the early 1800's were still very common. The newer,
stronger, more dynamic, better-made pianos with modern design features
were a drastic departure from the uprights before them. From a
marketing perspective, the makers did not want to just call them
"uprights", because that would not make people understand how
different these new designs really were.
Given the circumstances, I think it's pretty understandable why they
came up with these terms like "upright grand", "Vertigrand", etc. No
they weren't grands, but they probably had more in common with grands
in terms of tone and playability and structural integrity than the
earlier design uprights.
Of course nowadays, the earlier style uprights are curio shop items,
while the massive late 19-20th century uprights are the norm, and so
now it seems kind of silly to call them "upright grands" since they
obviously are not grands. But let's just remember some history.
Regards,
Rick Clark
Rich Pierro
rebuilding if you are interested. If you are in the NY area, You're welcome
to check out my shop and see some work in progress. Good luck whatever you
decide to do.
--
Rich Pierro
A-Sharp Piano Rebuilding
http://www.pianorebuilder.com
LarC
Clark) pondered exceedingly, then took quill in hand and composed:
>Given the circumstances, I think it's pretty understandable why they
>came up with these terms like "upright grand", "Vertigrand", etc. No
>they weren't grands, but they probably had more in common with grands
>in terms of tone and playability and structural integrity than the
>earlier design uprights.
>
>Of course nowadays, the earlier style uprights are curio shop items,
>while the massive late 19-20th century uprights are the norm, and so
>now it seems kind of silly to call them "upright grands" since they
>obviously are not grands. But let's just remember some history.
The term "upright grand" is not limited to descriptions of older
pianos. I know some dealers and piano teachers who still use it for
studios and up, and they should know better. It is no more
contradictory than the term "square circle" would be — but not much
less either. ;-)
LarC
§§§ - To reply by e-mail, please remove "r" from rnc - §§§
M Putnam
I guess I need to give you a little more background. The piano has
already been restored and all of the work you suggested has been done.
The restorer felt that the soundboard, despite having a few cracks,
did not need to be replaced (he shimmed one of the cracks, but left at
least one other unshimmed). In his opinion, he's done as much as he
can with a hundred-year-old upright piano. And, to be fair to him,
the piano does, by and large, have excellent tone and a smooth action.
The reason I'm asking about a soundboard replacement is that there are
a few notes in the mid-treble range that, for lack of a better word,
are a little hollow or "raspy." The tone is not quite clear on these
few notes.
A well-respected, certified tuner/technician in our area has checked
out the piano and he feels it is the soundboard cracks that are the
root of the problem on these notes. So I've got a piano restorer who
believes the cracks are not a problem (and that the piano sounds as
good as it is likely to sound), and a piano technician who thinks the
soundboard cracks are a problem.
Perhaps I'm being too picky about a few notes on a very old piano ...
but I'm just curious to know what a Steinway soundboard replacement
would cost me if, someday, I am accomplished enough on the piano to
justify investing more money in the instrument.
I am not interested in purchasing a new piano because I find the
history and styling of this turn-of-the-century piano to be far more
interesting and appealing than any new piano, Steinway or not.
Those are the reasons why I am asking if anyone knows what Steinway
charges for a soundboard replacement (which I already understood to be
a fairly involved procedure).
Thank you again for your advice,
Mark
P.S. I am very aware that "Vertigrand" is a marketing term dreamed up
by Steinway. In the course of my research of old pianos, Steinways in
particular, I have come to understand that piano marketing over the
last century was a combination of exaggeration, hyperbole, and
outright flim-flam. Because I had seen so many references on this
discussion board and elsewhere to "vertigrand," I have gotten in the
habit of calling it that. My apologies. I am not as naive as you
might think! :-)
Larry
>discussion board and elsewhere to "vertigrand," I have gotten in the
>habit of calling it that. My apologies. I am not as naive as you
>might think! :-)
>
Please don't think I mentioned it because I thought you were naive. I was just
pointing it out as information.
Since you do know how involved it all is, you are then aware that installing a
new soundboard means all the work except the action and keybed (and possibly
the pinblock) will have to be done over. That said, I still think having
Steinway do the soundboard will cost more than it needs to, and the work may
not be what you are expecting. But if it's Steinway you want to do it, the best
way to find out is to send an email directly to Steinway and ask them. Give
them all the information you've given them, and they can tell you exactly what
it will cost.
M. Slater
>Perhaps I'm being too picky about a few notes on a very old piano ...
>but I'm just curious to know what a Steinway soundboard replacement
>would cost me if, someday, I am accomplished enough on the piano to
>justify investing more money in the instrument.
Mark, If someday you are accomplished enough on the piano, the upright
(Steinway or not) will hold back your developement. The money a soundboard
replacement will cost you would make a nice downpayment on a good sized grand
piano. A hundred year old Steinway B would be nice!
Mark
Rick Clark
>The reason I'm asking about a soundboard replacement is that there are
>a few notes in the mid-treble range that, for lack of a better word,
>are a little hollow or "raspy." The tone is not quite clear on these
>few notes.
I think it is very risky to draw the conclusion the soundboard needs
replacing, though it might. An untreated crack might cause buzzing
sounds. This can usually be fixed. There is also the possibility the
ribs are coming unglued. Sometimes that can be repaired, but
soundboard replacement is not unreasonable.
The problem is, there are so many other possible causes for anomolous
sounds. It would be a tragedy to replace a soundboard only to find out
that wasn't the problem after all.
It is often difficult and occasionally impossible to determine exactly
what is causing a strange sound. But once you zero in on the culprit,
(IF you can) it is usually possible to prove you have found it. I
would absolutely not replace a soundboard in hopes of curing an odd
noise without that proof. A bad sound caused by the need of a shim in
the board or ribs coming loose are usually things that can be
demonstrated. You can usually quiet the bad noise temporarily by
exerting some pressure with a tool in the right spot.
Regards,
Rick Clark
M Putnam
I must say that, as a recent arrival to this discussion group, this is
a marvelous forum.
I look forward to your continued advice in the future.
Sincerely,
Mark